View Poll Results: Should the Pacers sit Danny for the rest of the year?

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Thread: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    First and foremost I have no problem with this post other than you don't need to be involved in a direct confrontation with another poster. But frankly while I may or may not agree with your analogy I don't think you are off base in citing the knife to kill a tiger. In fact I think that was kind of clever myself.

    However now to be fair to everyone else and the Pacers management here I need to point something out.

    You are 100% correct that members of the Pacers were leading us to believe that Danny was further along than what he may or may not have been. However I am pretty certain that you never heard Kevin Pritchard or Donnie Walsh make those statements.

    I know that one time after a practice that Walsh was quoted as saying that he had forgotten how good Danny was so again that did lead to the speculation that he not only was on track but there was the subtle hint there that he was maybe approaching old form. I know I fell into that trap, I don't blame management btw, I just admit to being a fan and really hoping.

    Now here is the part that I want everyone to take away from this.

    Just because there was no trade made doesn't mean one could not have been made. So Vnzla81 has every right to make that complaint. He doesn't know if there was one either but it is his right to speculate. Remember he was saying all along that Granger was going to be the way he is at the current moment so in his mind this was a no brainer. Now the rest of us don't think like that but he is not wrong to have those thoughts.

    Now Vnzla81 you need to take away from this that you don't know that the Pacers didn't try. Don't buy into the Wells piece that they were watching practice instead of working the phones. In this day and age they have smart phones, lap tops other devices and they could have been reached at any time. You don't know that they didn't look and try and do something and then ultimately decided they just couldn't get anything reasonable done.

    You have the right to be upset and IMO you have the right to say "told you so" because this is what you were saying all along. But you can't say that they didn't try either because we just don't know.

    Also to everyone, let's keep this above the belt line. If you don't like what a poster has to say then you have the right to say something to them but not about them.
    You sound like my Dad trying to settle a fight between me and my Brother.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    OK Dr. vnzla81. Any tendon injury that has to be treated is tendinosis. Any treatment for a tendon is tendinosis. Any knee tendon injury is permanent and career affecting.
    Especially, if its Danny Granger. Hang nail= walking corpse, in VZ land.


    After seeing Pecks post I want to emphasize this was a playfull dig at someone who has had issues with DG for years(pre injury).
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    Last edited by spazzxb; 03-21-2013 at 02:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    As much as I want to see Granger participate in the playoffs and help the Pacers win a title, it's time to finally admit that he needs to have the surgery, rest over the offseason, and be strong for next season.

    Kinda sucks. As it was stated before...he was here during all the down and rebuilding years, and I don't recall ever hear him complaining about it once. The Pacers finally have a solid team to contend for the title (granted Miami is on an unbelievable run), and he's been injured for most of the season.

    And yes...I believe that the Pacers can contend for the title. Stephen Smith made some good points in this video.
    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9070225
    Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 03-21-2013 at 07:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Some (new?) details on Granger's injury. I highlighted the part referring to HIPPA laws because over the years so many times in this forum people have asked why don't the pacers just come out and tell us what the injuries are. Well if you know anything about the HIPPA laws, you know that an employer cannot do that. http://www.ehow.com/facts_4968352_hi...vacy-laws.html. HIPPA laws were passed in 1996

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...-s-knee-injury

    Pacers: No easy cure for Danny Granger's knee injury

    The $13-million question surrounding the Indiana Pacers and Danny Granger is: when will he overcome his patellar tendinosis and get back on the court to help the team?

    There’s no definite answer for that, according to Dr. Christopher Kaeding, orthopedic surgeon at Ohio State University Sports Medicine.

    Granger has been sidelined for all but five games this season because of the injury to his left knee. The Pacers will not comment on the injury due to HIPPA laws. Granger has declined interview requests since the team announced he was going to be shutdown again March 6.

    Patellar tendinosis, often referred to as “jumper’s knee,” is when the tendon is overloaded and becomes inflamed.
    “It often occurs in athletes who do a lot of jumping, explosive moves, sudden starts, sudden stopping,” Kaeding said. “It can be one of those things where it hurts so much that you have a hard time walking up and down the stairs.”

    Kaeding declined to talk specifically about Granger because he’s not Granger’s doctor.

    Red flags went up when the Pacers announced two weeks ago that Granger would be shut down again because of “above average” soreness in his knee after attempting a shot against the Chicago Bulls on March 3.

    Kaeding said it’s not uncommon for athletes to have setbacks while working their way back from the injury. The Pacers were also prepared for the possibility of Granger running into a roadblock.

    “You start to feel better, but as soon as you get back and you start going hard, it’s not uncommon for the pain to come back,” Kaeding said. “That’s why it’s such a challenging problem.”\

    Granger was cleared to resume on-court activities earlier this week. He was expected to go through a workout at Bankers Life Fieldhouse on Wednesday when the rest of the team had the day off.

    The Pacers hope to have him back for the playoffs.

    Granger originally injured his knee during the playoff series against Miami last season. He tweaked it again while working out in Los Angeles over the summer. He had a platelet rich plasma procedure done late in September.

    Granger returned for the final two preseason games, but he knew he wasn’t past the injury when he felt pain in his knee during a game against the Bulls at Notre Dame.

    The Pacers announced that Granger would be out at least three months after he received an injection from renown Dr. James Andrews in Florida in early November.

    Miami’s Dwyane Wade, Kenyon Martin of the New York Knicks and former Miami point guard Jason Williams are among the players who have dealt with jumper’s knee in recent seasons. How long they were sidelined varied because each person’s body responds differently.

    Wade had surgery in May 2007, causing him to miss playing for Team USA in the FIBA Americas Championship that summer, but he returned to lead the NBA in scoring the following season. Martin missed 23 games during the 2009-10 season and has not played a full season since due to other injuries. Williams had surgery in the summer of 2006 and still dealt with pain for much of the first half of the following season.

    “It seriously is a difficult problem to deal with,” Kaeding said. “There’s probably 15 or 20 treatments people use to quiet it down. The fact that there’s so many treatments tells you not one of them works great. If one was great, the other 19 would go away.”

    Surgery is an option but that doesn’t have a “slam dunk-high success rate,” according to Kaeding. The he Pacers have avoided that route thus far.

    “Again, once it’s well established, it’s not an easy problem to treat, specially in athletes who continue to be active,” Kaeding said. “If it was someone like myself, I could take a couple of months off. It’s hard for athletes to do that, especially elite and professional athletes.”
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-21-2013 at 07:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    We don't know what the best treatment will be but I think Granger is handling this right. Give it every chance to be able to help the team this year and I'm still hopeful that can happen. If not, then perhaps try the surgical option early this summer.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    One of the worse benches in the NBA? nope I didn't miss that.
    The absolute best thing about V saying this, is that after last years playoffs he was arguing that the bench didn't need upgraded, the starters did. It was all the starters fault that the Pacers weren't better.

    Here we are 9 months later, and all he wants to talk about is how the bench needs to get better.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    PECK: You are 100% correct that members of the Pacers were leading us to believe that Danny was further along than what he may or may not have been. However I am pretty certain that you never heard Kevin Pritchard or Donnie Walsh make those statements.
    You might want to listen to the Walsh interview after the trade deadline. http://www.1070thefan.com/podcast/Ep....aspx?PID=2161

    Here are some of his comments: "In the long run we decided that it was in our best interest not to do anything right now, I don't think we had the kind of deal we wanted".


    "As you know we are optimistic that we are adding Danny Granger pretty soon, so if that happens we think we got the best player that was available".

    "he is practicing, he seems to be fine, he is playing, you know to be honest I forgot how good Danny Granger really was"


    This is just Walsh, Pritchard and Vogel sounded more optimistic, Donnie didn't sound like they had a roadblock plan in their hands either.


    And I'm sorry Peck but the Wells tweet really pissed me off, yes I know people have computers or whatever but come on.

    Mike Wells: To tell u how serious Indy was on making a deal, prez Donnie Walsh n GM Pritchard watched all of practice then they went their separate ways Twitter @MikeWellsNBA
    Last edited by vnzla81; 03-21-2013 at 09:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Tell me what I have been wrong about? ONE EXAMPLE? you got nothing, I'm the one wasting my time arguing with people about things I have already been proven to be right about.
    If you insist

    Vnzla - James Harden will not get traded. Perkins will be the one to go. WRONG
    Vnzla – Nene is worth 18M per year – WRONG
    Vnzla – West used to be a good player/scorer (stated beginning of the year) – WRONG.
    Vnzla – We should tank from a 2 to a 3 seed and give up home court in round 2 to avoid Boston. Claims Lakers did it. WRONG. Lakers tanked one year to avoid Utah BUT they never sacrificed home court to do so (3 to 4 seed or 5 to 6). That’s just ridiculous to even imply sacrificing homecourt.

    It’s disgraceful how often you whiff regarding your NBA insight, but what’s even more disgraceful is how you scramble to deflect those inaccuracies b/c you can’t stand to be wrong. It's an insult to those on this board who try to keep the facts on the straight and narrow. And I hate to rehash this, but you’ve brought this on yourself - YOU LOVED WHAT THE PACERS DID THIS OFFSEASON!!!!! You wanted DJ Augustin for years – you even said so yourself You liked the Mahinmi and Green signings. Now that it hasn’t worked you back track b/c you CAN’T ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG.

    After the acquisitions of Mahinmi, DJ, and Green;

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...light=augustin

    “I’m loving our front office, this what a front office is supposed to do.”
    “DJ and Green are doing to bring highlights to the second unit.”
    “I also love that we are getting another young guy, not some over the hill vet, I hope we keep him.”.

    Continue to hate on our bench now, that is fine – I agree with you, they suck right now. It hasn't worked out how many of us hoped. But don’t dare give us your typical “I told you so” b/c you were as high as anyone on those moves when they transpired and like many us, you were wrong. It’s ok – let’s say it together – “I was wrong”
    Last edited by purdue101; 03-21-2013 at 03:48 PM.

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  12. #159
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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    If you insist

    Vnzla - James Harden will not get traded. Perkins will be the one to go. WRONG
    Vnzla – Nene is worth 18M per year – WRONG
    Vnzla – West used to be a good player/scorer (stated beginning of the year) – WRONG.
    Vnzla – We should tank from a 2 to a 3 seed and give up home court in round 2 to avoid Boston. Claims Lakers did it. WRONG. Lakers tanked one year to avoid Utah BUT they never sacrificed home court to do so (3 to 4 seed or 5 to 6). That’s just ridiculous to even imply sacrificing homecourt.

    It’s disgraceful how often you whiff regarding your NBA insight, but what’s even more disgraceful is how you scramble to deflect those inaccuracies b/c you can’t stand to be wrong. It's an insult to those on this board who try to keep the facts on the straight and narrow. And I hate to rehash this, but you’ve brought this on yourself - YOU LOVED WHAT THE PACERS DID THIS OFFSEASON!!!!! You wanted DJ Augustin for years – you even said so yourself You liked the Mahinmi and Green signings. Now that it hasn’t worked you back track b/c you CAN’T ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG.

    After the acquisitions of Mahinmi, DJ, and Green;

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...light=augustin

    “I’m loving our front office, this what a front office is supposed to do.”
    “DJ and Green are doing to bring highlights to the second unit.”
    “I also love that we are getting another young guy, not some over the hill vet, I hope we keep him.”.

    Continue to hate on our bench now, that is fine – I agree with you, they suck right now. It hasn't worked out how many of us hoped. But don’t dare give us your typical “I told you so” b/c you were as high as anyone on those moves when they transpired and like many us, you were wrong. It’s ok – let’s say it together – “I was wrong”
    Anyone else still waiting for a response? The suspense is killing me!

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Any update on his return?
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    Any update on his return?
    I think we find out Monday. The last I heard is that he's ramping up his workouts.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    According to Wells in today's star (I can't copy & paste as I am out of my free trips there) Danny won't play on Monday but they think he might play during the West Coast swing.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...reparing-Bulls

    Indiana Pacers forward David West’s absence from the lineup because of a sprained lower back will extend into the weekend and likely into next week.

    West missed Friday’s game against the Milwaukee Bucks, didn’t travel to Chicago for tonight’s game against the Bulls and coach Frank Vogel said it’s unlikely he’ll play in Monday’s game against the Atlanta Hawks at Bankers Life Fieldhouse.

    West suffered the injury against the Philadelphia 76ers last weekend.

    He’s had difficulty walking at times this week.

    “He’s walking better,” Vogel said. “Each day it’s been getting better, but not to a level where he can play yet. They’re treating it every day. He needs time to heal.”

    It seems like West’s style of play – banging in the post and using his body to get separation – puts him in a tough position because of his back.

    “The trainers haven’t led me to believe it’s more of a concern and his style of play,” Vogel said. “Obviously, logical thinking would say you have to be cautious with it.”
    Granger may return

    Vogel said swingman Danny Granger, out for all but five games this season, won’t play in Monday’s game against the Hawks, but there’s a possibility that he could play during the team’s four-game West Coast road trip next week.

    The Pacers play at Houston, Dallas, Phoenix and the Los Angeles during the trip.

    Granger practiced for about 20 minutes on Thursday.

    “He looked like he hadn’t played in a few weeks, still some rust there,” Vogel said. “It’s going to take time to get his rhythm and timing back.”

    Getting his chance

    West’s injury has allowed Jeff Pendergraph to move into the backup power forward spot behind Tyler Hansbrough.

    Vogel said not playing Pendergraph this season has been one of his toughest decisions, because he deserved more minutes.

    “It’s been one of my biggest challenges since I’ve been here, trying to find minutes for guys who deserve to play,” Vogel said. “(Pendergraph’s) situation is probably the most challenging. He’s a heck of a basketball player and he’s an incredibly refreshing attitude in the locker room. I’m always happy to get him extended minutes.”

    Pendergraph, like any competitive athlete, admits it’s been tough waiting his turn to play. But he’s never voiced any displeasure, instead being the ultimate teammate. He’s appeared in 28 games this season.

    “Having D West out is unfortunate, but his health is our main priority,” Pendergraph said. “We want him to be healthy for the playoffs. I have to use this opportunity to help our team with him being down.

    “I’ve been very patient through it all. With my wife being pregnant, that’s something that’s definitely helped ease any frustrations I may have had about not playing.”

    Call Star reporter Mike Wells at (317) 444-6053.
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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...reparing-Bulls
    Granger may return

    Vogel said swingman Danny Granger, out for all but five games this season, won’t play in Monday’s game against the Hawks, but there’s a possibility that he could play during the team’s four-game West Coast road trip next week.
    The Pacers play at Houston, Dallas, Phoenix and the Los Angeles during the trip.
    Granger practiced for about 20 minutes on Thursday.
    “He looked like he hadn’t played in a few weeks, still some rust there,” Vogel said. “It’s going to take time to get his rhythm and timing back.”
    Selfishly, I'd love to have him play in the Clippers game as I have some pretty great seats for that one.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Anyone else still waiting for a response? The suspense is killing me!
    Let's just get the thread back on track and I appreciate Vnzla deleting his response (though I never saw it). I was a little fired up when posting that and I apologize, including to Vnzla (though he won't know I apologize b/c I am on his ignore). Anyways, it just grinds my gears to see threads derailed b/c of personality clashes, egos, etc. We should all be able to openly debate without crossing the line and making sarcastic digs, comments, etc. We have some super knowledgable folks on here (including Vnzla, who I know is an avid NBA follower and knows his stuff) and this board is at it's best when we can keep things in line. I took the bait and crossed the line - sorry. Let's get back to Pacers talk.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Some (new?) details on Granger's injury. I highlighted the part referring to HIPPA laws because over the years so many times in this forum people have asked why don't the pacers just come out and tell us what the injuries are. Well if you know anything about the HIPPA laws, you know that an employer cannot do that. http://www.ehow.com/facts_4968352_hi...vacy-laws.html. HIPPA laws were passed in 1996
    It's a little late in the game to be hiding behind HIPPA laws. They could've used that excuse on day one so why pull it out now?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    It's a little late in the game to be hiding behind HIPPA laws. They could've used that excuse on day one so why pull it out now?
    How many actual statements have been made by the Pacers, though? Pretty much everything we've argued about has been people giving opinions about when he'll be back, not about details of the diagnosis and the treatment plan. That's why we've been arguing, because everyone has their own assumption about when each stage of the diagnosis took place, what the treatment plan was, and what the actual medical expectations were for this specific case. Those details - which would have derailed any arguments except perhaps the old one about how much PS&E is lying - are precisely the ones covered by HIPPA.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    If you insist

    Vnzla - James Harden will not get traded. Perkins will be the one to go. WRONG
    Vnzla Ė Nene is worth 18M per year Ė WRONG
    Vnzla Ė West used to be a good player/scorer (stated beginning of the year) Ė WRONG.
    Vnzla Ė We should tank from a 2 to a 3 seed and give up home court in round 2 to avoid Boston. Claims Lakers did it. WRONG. Lakers tanked one year to avoid Utah BUT they never sacrificed home court to do so (3 to 4 seed or 5 to 6). Thatís just ridiculous to even imply sacrificing homecourt.

    Itís disgraceful how often you whiff regarding your NBA insight, but whatís even more disgraceful is how you scramble to deflect those inaccuracies b/c you canít stand to be wrong. It's an insult to those on this board who try to keep the facts on the straight and narrow. And I hate to rehash this, but youíve brought this on yourself - YOU LOVED WHAT THE PACERS DID THIS OFFSEASON!!!!! You wanted DJ Augustin for years Ė you even said so yourself You liked the Mahinmi and Green signings. Now that it hasnít worked you back track b/c you CANíT ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG.

    After the acquisitions of Mahinmi, DJ, and Green;

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...light=augustin

    ďIím loving our front office, this what a front office is supposed to do.Ē
    ďDJ and Green are doing to bring highlights to the second unit.Ē
    ďI also love that we are getting another young guy, not some over the hill vet, I hope we keep him.Ē.

    Continue to hate on our bench now, that is fine Ė I agree with you, they suck right now. It hasn't worked out how many of us hoped. But donít dare give us your typical ďI told you soĒ b/c you were as high as anyone on those moves when they transpired and like many us, you were wrong. Itís ok Ė letís say it together Ė ďI was wrongĒ
    nice work man. throughly enjoyed reading this post.

    i still believe Granger at even 70% can contribute to this teams 2nd unit in the playoffs. If not i would probably prefer Sam Young over Greene. Young if not mistaken did start for the Griz in the playoffs at one time. i dont like the gerald greene takes shots away from Pulp.

    Greene just doesnt get it offensively. hopefully Granger can heal up quick and give us whatever he has got left.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...anger-s-return

    Granger made a brief appearance ó five games ó before his left knee sent him back to the sideline.

    This time coach Frank Vogel spoke up. He went to swingmen Orlando Johnson, Sam Young and Gerald Green and told them that they ďhave to step upĒ because Granger was going to be out awhile.
    Yep they were prepared all right....

  30. #170
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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    I find it very easy to root for Jeff. Seems like a great teammate, and hes always excited to play, cheer, and watch even though he gets limited minutes.

    Definitely hope we can afford to keep him and find some more minutes for him in the future.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
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    http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...reparing-Bulls


    Selfishly, I'd love to have him play in the Clippers game as I have some pretty great seats for that one.
    Same. I've managed to wrangle some tickets in a box suite with a friend (via his connections). If you see a couple idiots wearing George Hill away jerseys sitting in a box at the Clippers game, come over and say hi.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    West will miss his fifth straight game with a lower back sprain, but both he and Danny Granger, out since March 3 with left knee pain, could be available early on the road trip. Granger will practice Wednesday and if he responds well, Vogel said, he could be come off the bench in Houston.

    Maybe.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    I hope he makes a comeback soon.

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Scott Agness ‏@ScottAgness 20m
    Stephenson and Granger practiced, Hill and West did not. All expected to play sometime on 4-gm trip. West likely held out at least 1 more.
    ....

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    Default Re: Is it time to pull the plug on Grangerís comeback? Conrad Brunner

    Scott Agness ‏@ScottAgness 3m
    Vogel on DG: ďSome of the gms are going to be his rehab assignments. Itís not like we can wait & let him have 5-6 practices under his belt"


    Scott Agness ‏@ScottAgness 2m
    Vogel said Granger is at a critical time. "If he re-injures it or it flares up really bad again, then you got to look some alternatives."



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