View Poll Results: Foul on Paul Pierce last play of the game?

Voters
52. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yep, it was a foul, and the Pacers should have had 2 free throws

    16 30.77%
  • Nope, it wasn't a foul, the game shouldn't be decided on that type of play.

    36 69.23%
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 66

Thread: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

  1. #26
    Indiana Pacers Forever Pacer Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    ya
    Posts
    3,824
    Mood

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This would not have been a foul at any point in the game. Pierce has just as much right to the position as George did.
    Not when a forearm / elbow strikes the face / head of the opponent. It was a foul. Period.
    Hopefully, Paul learned from the veteran move by Pierce as timing of the foul was perfect. And Pierce knows he won't be called out in that time of a game 9/10 times.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Pacer Fan For This Useful Post:


  3. #27
    Believe in Roy! boombaby1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    4,187

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This is a moodcreating posterattacking bs questionnaire with a condition on the no answer that is outright pretentious and silly at the same time, that means that people who think it was not a foul but a foul should be called even in that situation if it really was a foul could never vote no, despite some still doing that.

    Whether it happens or not is irrelevant but fouls should be called the same all 48 minutes, that is why we have 1 rulebook only and not several for different times in the game.
    If a foul get's committed with .02 seconds left and determines or can determine the outcome of the game it should be called just the same as it was at the beginning of the game or the game last week or last month.

    The same applies vice - versa
    I realize that you disagree with the statement that some fouls should not be called in the end of game situations. However, I felt that I should put that condition on the second answer. I guarantee that no one who was going to pick Yes, switched their answer because I put the condition in the second part of the post.
    @qandrews9428

  4. #28
    Believe in Roy! boombaby1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    4,187

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not when a forearm / elbow strikes the face / head of the opponent. It was a foul. Period.
    Hopefully, Paul learned from the veteran move by Pierce as timing of the foul was perfect. And Pierce knows he won't be called out in that time of a game 9/10 times.

    Where do you see him getting elbowed in the face? Pierce just raises up is harms to prevent PG from jumping over him to grab the ball.
    Last edited by boombaby1987; 03-07-2013 at 09:54 AM.
    @qandrews9428

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to boombaby1987 For This Useful Post:


  6. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lifelong Indy-area resident
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,655

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    For George to have any chance for a call, he should have gone up for the ball. There was no foul. But, fouls should be called at any time in a game that they occur. So, I agree that the survey was not worded appropriately.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to beast23 For This Useful Post:


  8. #30

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Didn't vote.

    Doesn't matter if it was a foul or not. It's not going to get called.

  9. #31
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Where do you see him getting elbowed in the face? Pierce just raises up is harms to prevent PG from jumping over him to grab the ball.
    I can't seem to play that video. Says it's private.

  10. #32
    Believe in Roy! boombaby1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    4,187

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I can't seem to play that video. Says it's private.
    I fixed it.
    @qandrews9428

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to boombaby1987 For This Useful Post:


  12. #33
    Member Derek2k3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Fort Wayne
    Posts
    1,580
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    I say it is a foul, for 2 reasons:

    1. Pierce grabbed Paul's jersey when he was going around the screen. Foul.
    2. Paul got to the spot first, began to lift, and Pierce backed into him, pushing him out of the play. It wasn't like Pierce was simply hilding his position, he got to the spot late (foul) and pushed Paul off (foul). EDIT: Also, Pierce wasn't making a play on the ball. He simply pushes Paul out of the way with his ***.

    However, I hate to see a game end on that call. Yet, a foul is a foul. So, yeah, you have to call that. That, or make it a rule that a guy has to either a) make more than $17M a seasons or b) be bleeding, in order to call a late foul.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Derek2k3 For This Useful Post:


  14. #34
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Now that I see that from the TV angle, George Hill deserves a lot of the blame for that IMO; Paul George made his cut and Hill did not pass him the ball until it was at least 1-1.5 seconds too late. If he had thrown that as Paul was finishing his move, I think PG would have jumped up to grab it. At least in that case there's some chance the ball goes in or he gets the foul. But he makes his move and then is stuck flat footed before Hill throws him the ball.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  16. #35
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,767

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Now that I see that from the TV angle, George Hill deserves a lot of the blame for that IMO; Paul George made his cut and Hill did not pass him the ball until it was at least 1-1.5 seconds too late. If he had thrown that as Paul was finishing his move, I think PG would have jumped up to grab it. At least in that case there's some chance the ball goes in or he gets the foul. But he makes his move and then is stuck flat footed before Hill throws him the ball.

    Paul George also did a horrible job picking Hibbert's man also wh9ich caused the whole play to break down. Also Roy did a horrible job by not waiting on Paul's pick.

    Refs aren't going to make that call because it had no chance because the pacers ran it horribly.

    I still don't think it is a foul at any point during a game.

  17. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Unclebuck For This Useful Post:


  18. #36
    RING THE BELL! Sandman21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Area55
    Posts
    6,334

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steagles View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Absolutely not a foul. However, that goaltending was wrongly called...


    Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk
    And the OJ block....
    And the Pierce Travel/Out of Bounds that was called Celts ball...
    And Lance getting thrown to the floor....

    Think I'm missing a few here.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
    Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Sandman21 For This Useful Post:


  20. #37
    Member Derek2k3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Fort Wayne
    Posts
    1,580
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And the OJ block....
    And the Pierce Travel/Out of Bounds that was called Celts ball...
    And Lance getting thrown to the floor....

    Think I'm missing a few here.
    I'm with you, except OJ's foul. He smoked Garnett, right in the face

    Off hand got KG, other hand cleanly blocked the shot.

  21. #38
    Believe in Roy! boombaby1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    4,187

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And the OJ block....
    And the Pierce Travel/Out of Bounds that was called Celts ball...
    And Lance getting thrown to the floor....

    Think I'm missing a few here.

    The Pierce travel was because Paul George clearly pulled him. Denari and Buckner were in clear agreement. The out of bounds was a horrible call, but luckily they didn't end of scoring on that possession so it doesn't matter. When was Lance thrown to the floor?
    Also, I agree with what derek said about the OJ play.
    @qandrews9428

  22. #39
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,084

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    That is one specific time where it confuses me when people say Quinn is a homer. PG had his hand on Pierce, but I don't think he pulled him at all. If you get pulled by the arm, you're arm goes first, then your body reacts. Unless PP was pulling away from PG, his arm would have extended before he got pulled off balance.

    Quinn says it a lot with pushes in the back. Just because a hand is there, doesn't automatically mean they're pushing or pulling.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Since86 For This Useful Post:


  24. #40
    Indiana Pacers Forever Pacer Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    ya
    Posts
    3,824
    Mood

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Where do you see him getting elbowed in the face? Pierce just raises up is harms to prevent PG from jumping over him to grab the ball.
    LOL...wow!

    My bad, I had only read the title and Bucks post. I wasn't even thinking of that play being the last (woo is me lol). I was thinking of the last play in which it lost the game for us, the one before when Pierce was on offense and threw an forearm / elbow into Paul's face and Paul's face done a 180 degree and took him out of the play for the Celtics to score and win the game. I most certainly don't think the .5 second play was a foul, hell I wasn't even recognizing this play as there wasn't even a question of a foul to discuss. I took it for granted that it was the other. Can I change my vote now!!!

    Sorry for the mess up! OMG
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 03-07-2013 at 12:29 PM.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Pacer Fan For This Useful Post:


  26. #41

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    I honestly dont think i would have called it, but that is a foul...you cant box out like that on an alley oop play, just saying as soon as you turn your back to a player and start boxing him out like that when the balls getting passed to him and is in the air, it becomes an illegal play. But oh well, its one regular season game. Pacers are fine. Not too worried about the Celtics in the playoffs to be honest. Watch last years playoffs again, Rondo carried them. They will not last in a 7 game series vs the Pacers.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to brownjake43 For This Useful Post:


  28. #42
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,443

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    1. You can clear see PG raise up for the ball as pierce begins to undercut him. He certainly made an attempt to catch the ball. That is a foul.
    2. Those of you who say that the refs would never call that because the Pacers ran the play so horribly....that imply's that the refs have 20/20 hindsight in the present. No one can make that kind of determination on the fly, when the ball is in the air. Thats just a silly argument.
    3. George Hill clearly under throws the pass, and thats pretty damn stupid on his part. He should have launched it towards the far side of the rim with force, thats the only way those types of plays even work.
    4. Those who say they don't want the game ending on a foul call....you clearly do not understand the idea that if they called the fouls at the end of the game, then players would quickly learn not to purposely foul to try and break up a play at the end of the game. Which actually helps the game. Its a simple cause and effect.
    5. If we subscribe to the idea that bad calls always even out, then we clearly should have been the beneficiary of that call, as the refs blew a goal tending call on PG just a handful of plays earlier, AND screwed up an out of bounds call where the ball when off of Pierce's knee, but they called Celtics ball. The crowd chimed in on that one after the replay and the refs should have known they probably got that one wrong. So Pacers clearly get rob out of points and possession in the final minutes of the game.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to graphic-er For This Useful Post:


  30. #43
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    30,932

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Here is a running joke I am enjoying on PD, in the same way whenever the Pacers seem to win a game a certain group always has to say "Yeah but team X was missing player Y" it seems that every time we lose a close game there is a thread telling us the refs blew a call.

    You know who blew that game? The Pacers did. They had a 9 point lead with 4 to go after getting a couple low percentage 3s from Hill to drop and another one from Paul. You have to win games like that. Hill isn't going to always hit pull up 3s that are 3 feet behind the arc so when he does you better not squander the lead. The Pacers squandered the lead. They have only themselves to blame for a very good missed opportunity and they better not lay an egg against the damn Magic on Friday.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

  31. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Trader Joe For This Useful Post:


  32. #44
    Member Randolph_HorseLips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Danville
    Posts
    329

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    My two cents...

    This is why basketball is one of the toughest sports to officiate. I can see the argument both ways.

    By the letter of the law, it was probably a foul. But by the letter of the law, there should probably be 10X more fouls called every game. And lane violations. And 3-second calls.

    As a result, perspective becomes subjective and I think you have to ask yourself: "Should it have been called?" rather than "Was it a foul according to the rulebook?"

    I voted no, but I don't feel strongly about it. I'm not sure why this is a foul and physical block-outs on rebounds are not. So for the sake of consistency, I like the no-call. If roles were reversed I don't make a big deal about it he other way, either.

    I hated the play call and/or George Hill's decision, so I don't mind us not getting bailed out. It was a bad pass anyway.

  33. #45
    Indiana Pacers Forever Pacer Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    ya
    Posts
    3,824
    Mood

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randolph_HorseLips View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    My two cents...

    This is why basketball is one of the toughest sports to officiate. I can see the argument both ways.

    By the letter of the law, it was probably a foul. But by the letter of the law, there should probably be 10X more fouls called every game. And lane violations. And 3-second calls.

    As a result, perspective becomes subjective and I think you have to ask yourself: "Should it have been called?" rather than "Was it a foul according to the rulebook?"

    I voted no, but I don't feel strongly about it. I'm not sure why this is a foul and physical block-outs on rebounds are not. So for the sake of consistency, I like the no-call. If roles were reversed I don't make a big deal about it he other way, either.

    I hated the play call and/or George Hill's decision, so I don't mind us not getting bailed out. It was a bad pass anyway.
    I agree and if Paul could've had a chance of a positive play with a proper pass in then I would have chewed on the fact no call was made. But the pass was terrible and Paul had no chance of a play and with that said, the refs shouldn't bail the Pacers out by calling a foul. The refs got it right and therefore this play is a moot point. As I botched up my first post, I never thought this was the play that was being discussed.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  34. #46
    Member Randolph_HorseLips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Danville
    Posts
    329

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    But the pass was terrible and Paul had no chance of a play and with that said, the refs shouldn't bail the Pacers out by calling a foul.
    Yep. I think I agree.

    In the NFL I hate it when there are pass-interference calls on underthrown/poorly thrown balls that the receiver wasn't going to catch anyway. HATE that about the NFL.

    Similarly, if I'm a Boston fan I hate seeing a foul in that situation.

  35. #47

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    It's not a foul, it was a stupid play call by Vogel, and the Pacers choked. No blame should be placed on the ref when we were inept on offense and defense in the 4th.

  36. #48
    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,857

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I say it is a foul, for 2 reasons:

    1. Pierce grabbed Paul's jersey when he was going around the screen. Foul.
    2. Paul got to the spot first, began to lift, and Pierce backed into him, pushing him out of the play. It wasn't like Pierce was simply hilding his position, he got to the spot late (foul) and pushed Paul off (foul). EDIT: Also, Pierce wasn't making a play on the ball. He simply pushes Paul out of the way with his ***.

    However, I hate to see a game end on that call. Yet, a foul is a foul. So, yeah, you have to call that. That, or make it a rule that a guy has to either a) make more than $17M a seasons or b) be bleeding, in order to call a late foul.

    THIS x 1000

    It's what I've been saying (in vain) all of last night.

    I don't care what anyone feels about whether fouls "should or should not" be called in these end game situations.

    Paul Pierce fouled Paul George on the alley oop attempt, which caused the Pacers to be down by 2 as time expired, as opposed to down by 2 with 2 free throws.

    That's ALL that matters to me.

    Once again, this game should have ended differently, BOTH due to the Pacers inability to close out the game, AND the officiating.

    Sorry guys, I can't just not argue my convictions and stand up for them when questioned. (In a hostile manner I might add)
    Read my Pacers.com Guest Blog:
    "Area 55 Conquers Staples Center"

  37. #49
    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,857

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's not a foul, it was a stupid play call by Vogel, and the Pacers choked. No blame should be placed on the ref when we were inept on offense and defense in the 4th.
    Then let me pose a different question.

    Let's assume that instead of the Pacers collapsing in the 4th, both teams played hard, smart basketball. A truly classic game to watch. A game that both teams could be proud of their effort.

    Then let's assume that the Celtics go up by 2 with 0.5 seconds left. They've been switching the lead back and forth over and over again.

    The Pacers run an out of bounds alley oop to Paul George, who is (very arguably) fouled on 2 different occasions during the inbounding of the alley oop.


    Are you telling me that in THAT situation it would have been "correct" for the refs to call a foul, because it wasn't "bailing us out" for playing a crappy 4 minutes of basketball immediately prior?

    See where I am going? This mindset absolutely baffles me.

    The fact the Pacers choked down the stretch SHOULD be irrelevant (to use a term from He we shall not name)

    the only piece of information that should be relevant is the fact that with less than a second to play, one team has an opportunity to force overtime.

    That is not a trivial matter for a team fighting for a high playoff seed. The fact that they played a couple minutes of bad basketball which necessitated the NEED to force overtime means nothing.
    Read my Pacers.com Guest Blog:
    "Area 55 Conquers Staples Center"

  38. #50
    Believe in Roy! boombaby1987's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    4,187

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Last play of the game, foul on Pierce or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Then let me pose a different question.

    Let's assume that instead of the Pacers collapsing in the 4th, both teams played hard, smart basketball. A truly classic game to watch. A game that both teams could be proud of their effort.

    Then let's assume that the Celtics go up by 2 with 0.5 seconds left. They've been switching the lead back and forth over and over again.

    The Pacers run an out of bounds alley oop to Paul George, who is (very arguably) fouled on 2 different occasions during the inbounding of the alley oop.


    Are you telling me that in THAT situation it would have been "correct" for the refs to call a foul, because it wasn't "bailing us out" for playing a crappy 4 minutes of basketball immediately prior?

    See where I am going? This mindset absolutely baffles me.

    The fact the Pacers choked down the stretch SHOULD be irrelevant (to use a term from He we shall not name)

    the only piece of information that should be relevant is the fact that with less than a second to play, one team has an opportunity to force overtime.

    That is not a trivial matter for a team fighting for a high playoff seed. The fact that they played a couple minutes of bad basketball which necessitated the NEED to force overtime means nothing.

    I realize that you are looking at this from a fan perspective, but it is just not a foul. Ask 100 beat writers on their opinion of whether that is a foul or not, and 95 or more will say it is not.
    @qandrews9428

Similar Threads

  1. Rivers: Foul on Wade was legit, not 'punk play' [ESPN]
    By RoboHicks in forum NBA Headlines (RSS Feeds)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-01-2012, 01:16 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-24-2010, 04:10 PM
  3. Celts' Pierce likely to play: 'That's all I want to do' [ESPN]
    By RoboHicks in forum NBA Headlines (RSS Feeds)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-07-2008, 05:50 PM
  4. Is Harrison Ready To Avoid Foul Play? {Pacers.com 10.5.06}
    By Frank Slade in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-06-2006, 05:36 AM
  5. Pacers should have Pollard Flagrant foul Pierce
    By bread in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-20-2004, 01:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •