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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So a 1M practice dummy is too expensive with the cap situation going on, but taking that 1M combining another player/salary with it, and turning it into one player with a bigger salary is the better option?

    Maybe for actual basketball reasons, depending on who you get in return, but I would think for salary situations 2 players at X amount is better than one player at X amount.


    I'm all for trying to turn a pick or a bench player into a different player that contributes, but the salary situation is going to get that much tighter.
    Actually, my references were a little vague. Last summer, I would have attempted to do something more meaningful with the pick, prior to signing Green.

    With this year's pick, I would definitely try to use it to dump salary.

    For me, the 2 players for total salary x compared with one player at salary x also makes sense, depending on the situation. For example, I don't know that I would want to pay 2 players 3M each that are your 9th and tenth men that might average 15-18 total, if I can use the 6m total to get a better fit/better rounded player that is or 7th man that can give you 24 minutes or so per game. I would rather have better quality players at positions 1-8, or 1-9, even if it means that you only carry 13 players and positions 11 and 12 are minimum salary players. 10-11 players will get you through the season, unless you have a significant number of serious injuries. But, in the playoffs, you want a great 8 players, with #9 and #10 able to give you a few minutes here and there.

    Right now, I agree that our salary situation is getting sticky. This summer, I see re-signing West as a must. One we see what that amount is, then they can start the work to see if it is possible to keep Danny. By the end of the season, they should also know enough about Danny's recovery to have contingencies in place for choosing between Danny and Lance, and whether there is a chance to retain both (depending on West's new contract amount).

    If I were the Pacers, I would do my darndest to try to lock Lance in this summer. Perhaps try to give him more years with some reduction in annual dollars. That way he gets some reward next season in a higher salary as opposed to 900k+. Otherwise, if they wait until summer 2014 after what will probably be another full year of improvement, and there will be several teams in a bidding war for him. If we can get that done, it also locks in another core player. Then they can put their plan in place to be able to trade one of Danny or Lance, if necessary.

    After this season, retaining West and acquiring a backup point guard will make it difficult to keep Tyler. If we plan on doing everything possible to also keep Danny and Lance, considering the re-signing of George, that might even make keeping Mahinmi difficult. But Green and his 3.5m have to go, and we need to sign some of the low- end guys at 400k, not 890k. If the bench fodder want won't play for minimum, then we need to move on to the next set of candidates. But we need to quit overpaying guys to sit in sits. Heck, if they need candidates, maybe the two of us can sit in suits behind the bench and ogle the Pacemates for 400k apiece.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    We can discuss Plumlee until the cows come home. If Plumlee wasn't as old as he is, then maybe the pick wouldn't be as bad as there is TIME to let him develop, but that's not the case. I don't expect much more from Plumlee next year either as the Pacers are in a "win now mode".

    I wanted to trade out of the draft last year, and if the Pacers stay close to where they are now in the standings what is there to look forward to in what is considered a weaker draft this year? Another Plumlee? Apparently, the FO felt this coming draft will produce some future jewel when they refused to put the pick in trades at the TD.

    People keep saying the Pacers need these picks for salary reasons, well I counter saying there are plenty of Sam Young and Ben Hansbroughs to fill out a roster cheaply w/o having to give guaranteed contracts like latter 1st round picks get.
    Or veterans that you can get for the minimum salary like Barbosa, Barnes and others.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    We can discuss Plumlee until the cows come home. If Plumlee wasn't as old as he is, then maybe the pick wouldn't be as bad as there is TIME to let him develop, but that's not the case. I don't expect much more from Plumlee next year either as the Pacers are in a "win now mode".
    I guess I just didn't realize one or two years can make a break a guys career. Not his talent, not his potential, not is desire (or lack thereof) to get better.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Anymore, I don't really care who roots for what team and why. The only thing that offends me is when people come to BLF and are impudent or belligerent or get physical with opposing fans (assuming, of course, said fans weren't just as guilty and baiting them).

    Some people root for the home team, some people root for their favorite players, some people just root for the greatest players and teams. Some do it all the time, so only when things are bright. I don't care.
    I think everyone would PREFER that die-hard Pacers fans fill every seat at BLF. However, if that is not possible, I would still like to see every seat filled. And yes, for me that means that if casual fans are not going to fill out the remainder, I'll even take opposing fans.

    The only way to prevent that is for us to get online and buy out the Bulls games early. A few rears ago, that would have also been true for the Pistons games.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I guess I just didn't realize one or two years can make a break a guys career. Not his talent, not his potential, not is desire (or lack thereof) to get better.
    It'd be easier to get past his few extra years if they weren't spent showing his extremely limited talent and potential in front of a national television audience.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    It'd be easier to get past his few extra years if they weren't spent showing his extremely limited talent and potential in front of a national television audience.
    All he did in those few extra years was prove that he sucks.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I guess I just didn't realize one or two years can make a break a guys career. Not his talent, not his potential, not is desire (or lack thereof) to get better.
    I don't think it does. But, when your team is cash-strapped, I think it would be better for a player that is going to get payed 1m+ per year to show you some of that promise sooner rather than later. If not, might it be better to dump that 1m per year and let it cover two players at 400k per year each, as you have mentioned in an earlier post?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    All he did in those few extra years was prove that he sucks.
    This is going to sound smart-assed, but I'm actually being serious:

    Given your opinion of Plumlee, does this force you to conclude that Bird is an idiot to have chosen him?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    This is going to sound smart-assed, but I'm actually being serious:

    Given your opinion of Plumlee, does this force you to conclude that Bird is an idiot to have chosen him?
    Nope. Bird made more than enough good choices to offset this (relatively harmless) poor one. I think he saw size and athleticism and decided he could be molded into a rotational niche big man. Which, I suppose, is still possible, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    This is going to sound smart-assed, but I'm actually being serious:

    Given your opinion of Plumlee, does this force you to conclude that Bird is an idiot to have chosen him?
    I know this wasn't directed at me but my opinion of Plumlee leads me to the conclusion that Bird made an idiotic decision by choosing him. That doesn't necessarily make Bird an idiot.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I don't think it does. But, when your team is cash-strapped, I think it would be better for a player that is going to get payed 1m+ per year to show you some of that promise sooner rather than later. If not, might it be better to dump that 1m per year and let it cover two players at 400k per year each, as you have mentioned in an earlier post?
    I know that you hate me but I would like to let you know that I agree with your point, paying somebody 1.5 mil for the next 3 years not to play is stupid in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I know this wasn't directed at me but my opinion of Plumlee leads me to the conclusion that Bird made an idiotic decision by choosing him. That doesn't necessarily make Bird an idiot.
    So how do you figure he came to this idiotic decision?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    So how do you figure he came to this idiotic decision?
    I have no Earthly idea. It frankly makes no sense and pretty much defies every one of Bird's past tendencies in the draft.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I know that you hate me but I would like to let you know that I agree with your point, paying somebody 1.5 mil for the next 3 years not to play is stupid in my opinion.
    Glad you agree, but your initial assumption is incorrect. I have had problems with some of your posts and sometimes your demeanor. But I would find it impossible to "hate" someone I've never even met. And, those that know me say that I can sit with virtually anyone over a couple of beers and have a great conversation. No one is exactly as others perceive them on this forum.

    And, for what it's worth I very much appreciate your demeanor over the last 10-14 days of your posting. So, thank YOU. I knew, or at least was very much hoping, that this guy was hiding in there somewhere.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I have no Earthly idea. It frankly makes no sense and pretty much defies every one of Bird's past tendencies in the draft.
    Yeah, he doesn't tick any of Bird's usual boxes except "come from a winning program" which PG didn't tick that box so I just always assumed that one wasn't as big of a deal.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I guess I just didn't realize one or two years can make a break a guys career. Not his talent, not his potential, not is desire (or lack thereof) to get better.

    How long does it take a 5 to be able to contribute nightly at a NBA level? For years, it was pointed out for Hibbert and Smits it takes 5 years. Do the Pacers have 5 years to invest in a 24 yo who has played a total of 27 min 8 games?

    Plumlee may have the attributes you say, if so then I contend he's with the wrong team to see the fruits of his assets. Every year there are players drafted by teams that put that player in a circumstance of not being in the right system or with the right team. Do I want to see Plumlee succeed? Sure I do as a diehard Pacers fan! But the reality is, for the 3rd time, the Pacers are in a "win now mode". The chances of Plumlee playing and progressing next season is low, but you have a 1st rd player at a mil sitting on the bench to fill out the roster for those that think they need late 1st rd picks to fill out the bench. With the likely hood of another one this coming draft.

    IMO, it would behoove Plumlee to be traded to a team like Orlando who could use a b/u 5. They are a young team accumilating young players to build a team for the future. He could then get the PT to bring forth the skills and assets you feel he has. I just don't see it with the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Again, Miles Plumlee will be 25 this fall. That is the bottom line here.

    Jeff Foster was 22 (and actually did some big time things in college so acting like he was just another goofy tall white guy isn't really the case)

    Comparing Plumlee to Foster is a total stretch in a lot of ways.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    This is going to sound smart-assed, but I'm actually being serious:

    Given your opinion of Plumlee, does this force you to conclude that Bird is an idiot to have chosen him?

    An idiot? NO. I see it as not a prudent move though. A poor choice by someone who was to have no connection with the Pacers after the draft? ABSOLUTELY YES!

    To be quite honest, my feeling is if you had to draft a player last year then a good number of posters on this board could have made a better pick than Plumlee. JMOAA

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I don't think anyone is calling them those names.

    Yes it's a rather generic statement, but it's aimed at those who fit the bill, not 100% of the Chicago fan base. I can think of a few other terms that might, not not those specifically.

    A guy born in raised in Indy, going to school at LN, going to an Indiana college, rooting for the Bulls with no family ties or anything, just because MJ was at the top when they started watching NBA would be the textbook definition of frontrunner/bandwagoner, IMHO.
    Peck flat out says: "and yes Bulls fans are the absolute worst when it comes to being front running, jock sniffing, snotbags..."

    Like I've said before, you wont hear too many arguments from me about their character and whatnot, but it is largely inappropriate to label them as bandwagon fans. They have a strong fanbase that will support their team rain or shine

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I have no Earthly idea. It frankly makes no sense and pretty much defies every one of Bird's past tendencies in the draft.
    So would you then have to consider the possibility that maybe it's not the idiotic decision it may appear to be, and that it's just a matter of waiting a while to see that for ourselves?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Foster's and Plumlee's situations really aren't comparable due to the dramatic difference in the universities they attended. I can find you numerous guys who put up numbers just as good, if not better than Foster's NCAA numbers, only to go on to never step foot on an NBA court, let alone accomplish anything of note. Foster's game translated to the NBA much better than those other players, and many scouts seem to think the same thing about Plumlee. And again, while he didn't play huge minutes, for whatever reason, he delivered in the time he spent on the court, being an elite rebounder and efficient scorer.

    Bird's proven to be savvy enough to earn the benefit of the doubt from me. If Bird liked Plumlee, and if Wojnarowski says he was high on several teams' draft boards, I'll take the words of those two over the words of certain members here who have a history of making less-than-intelligent statements.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Nope. Bird made more than enough good choices to offset this (relatively harmless) poor one.
    If it was a relatively harmless decision, why do we end up with several hundred posts regarding it? Do people just love to hear themselves complain? (Rhetorical, I already know the answer to that)

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    [QUOTE=GrangeRusHibbert;1601306]

    Wojnarowski says he was high on several teams' draft boards, /QUOTE]


    Do those teams still have any interest in Plumlee now? If so, please contact the Pacers FO.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace Maker View Post
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    Peck flat out says: "and yes Bulls fans are the absolute worst when it comes to being front running, jock sniffing, snotbags..."

    Like I've said before, you wont hear too many arguments from me about their character and whatnot, but it is largely inappropriate to label them as bandwagon fans. They have a strong fanbase that will support their team rain or shine
    I only call them front running, jock sniffing snot bags because it's true.

    It's harder to do in this day and age but you must remember for me I have been dealing with these "fans" for over 20 years.

    I had one test and one test only for any Bulls fan who was being an obnoxious @ss back in the day. I simply would ask them who the "A-train" was. Out of the dozens of "fans" I asked that over the years I had 2 who could answer that question and one of them pretty much shut me up by not telling me who the A-train was but that he actually liked Dave Corzine better.

    Their team right now is still a winning franchise, sure they are missing Rose but they were riding a 3 game winning streak into the game and they thought that they were going to get us.

    Like I said though this isn't new to me I've had to put up with drunk obnoxious fans of theirs forever. The only fan base that even comes close to this was the 1980's early 90's Indiana Celtic fans. They were worse but it's pretty close.

    I actually like Knicks fans for the most part and believe it or not the majority of Piston fans have been cool over the year, but Chicago fans are just horrid.


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    It'd be easier to get past his few extra years if they weren't spent showing his extremely limited talent and potential in front of a national television audience.
    People said the same thing about Foster, while he was with the Pacers. I can deal. I'm talking about the limited talent and potential.

    Just depends on what you expect out of him. I expect rebounding and defense. He's got plenty of talent and potential in those two areas.

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