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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

  1. #76

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    Don't worry, they'll draft his younger brother this summer. One of the Plumlees is bound to be a decent NBA player.
    No.

    I have two brothers, and none of us are NBA players either.
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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    The best part about Plumlee: he's likely a borderline rotation player signed to a great contract for a few years. Perfect to round out the roster (basically all that we can afford given how top-heavy this team is). I expect he'll play a bigger role next year.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    Greg Ostertag averaged 7.1 points in his four-year stay at Kansas, before going on to be a reasonably productive NBA center for the next 12 years.
    Ostertag was 7'2" and also averaged double figures for one of his collegiate seasons.

    I know DeQuan Jones had a Plumlee-esque college career at Miami and he made the Magic roster this season. Of course, he was an undrafted free agent and not a first round pick.
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  6. #79
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I have a lot of respect for Thibs, but why Nate is still starting over Teague is absolutely baffling to me.
    Really? I thought Teague looked lost out there for most of the game. It was probably one of his worst games of the season. Both of their PGs got shut down but in the games I've seen the Bulls play, Robinson has been the better PG.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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  7. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Really? I thought Teague looked lost out there for most of the game. It was probably one of his worst games of the season. Both of their PGs got shut down but in the games I've seen the Bulls play, Robinson has been the better PG.
    I basically agree with you. The simplest way to say it was Nate looked like an NBA player, Teague didn't. Nate makes dumb decisions, but he knows what he's going to do and has the skills to do it. Teague just looked like a guy trying not to mess up. Nate has confidence, Teague didn't.

    Maybe at some point in the future, Teague will learn how to play at the NBA level. But based on this game, he has a long way to go. I didn't see anything that screams NBA player at all in his play.

  8. #81
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    • I think it’s well past official time to just come out and say that the Gerald Green signing was a colossal failure. He was brought here to add offense to the club and on a night where our bench scores 8 points he can’t even get on the floor. Second round pick Orlando Johnson & league min. player Sam Young get floor time above him. Barbosa on whatever salary the Celtics signed him for would have been 10 times better than what Green has given us. I keep wondering if Green isn’t some form of payback to Falk (his agent) for something because I just can’t believe that we were bamboozled this badly.

    • George Hill is not the Man when we need to hit a clutch free throw. In fact let us all agree that George Hill needs to get the ball in the hands of about anyone else late in the game if we are down 2 and need free throws to tie.

    • Tyler actually once again played decent defense when he was in. It’s funny because he now can’t score on most nights and his jump shot is just a distant memory but he actually plays solid perimeter defense. Who knew this would happen

    I am a little late to the party. I agree with you that I didn't think the pacers played very well, they played hard, but not that well. But maybe my expecatations have grown so much throughout the season that I just expect a lot more than I did 3 months ago.

    I do want to take issue with the three bullet points I quoted above.

    Green has been a disaster and I have wondered if the Pacers sent a scout to watch him in person for several games last season. If they did and if that scout gave the OK to sign Green, then that scout doesn't know what he is doing. It is obvious watchiung Green more than 1 or 2 games, that he really is awful in knowing how to play the game, and I can understand why Vogel has benched him and seemingly would rather play anything but him.

    I disagree with you about Hill. He's made a lot of clutch free throws, but he's taken a lot of them because he tends to have the ball in his hands a lot when teams are trying to foul. So sure he's missed some. I would like to see his shooting % late in close games. He is a 80.6% FT shooter this season. I'd be very surprised if he shoot less than 78% late in close games. In other words, I think he shoots his average late in close.

    I have always thought Tyler was a very good one-on-one defender. He is a good athlete, quick feet, excellent lateral quickness and aggressive. He's not a quick jumper which hurts him and he's shorter than it appears. So one-on-one I think he's always been good, but his team defense is where he's struggled and still his pick and roll coverage is often poor
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-05-2013 at 11:05 AM.

  9. #82
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I disagree with you about Hill. He's made a lot of clutch free throws, but he's taken a lot of them because he tends to have the ball in his hands a lot when teams are trying to foul. So sure he's missed some. I would like to see his shooting % late in close games. He is a 80.6% FT shooter this season. I'd be very surprised if he shoot less than 78% late in close games. In other words, I think he shoots his average late in close.
    So far this season, with less than 5 minutes to go in a game that is within plus or minus 5 points, George Hill is 18-25 from the free throw line. 72%.

    http://www.82games.com/1213/12IND2.HTM

    That said, I'm not terribly concerned by it.
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  11. #83
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    So far this season, with less than 5 minutes to go in a game that is within plus or minus 5 points, George Hill is 18-25 from the free throw line. 72%.

    http://www.82games.com/1213/12IND2.HTM

    That said, I'm not terribly concerned by it.
    So going into the Bulls game he was 18-23 right at 78%.

    I am not worried, I consider Hill a very clutch player. Hill, West, Paul George and a healthy Granger I am very confident when they go to the FT line late in close games. That doesn't mean they won't miss some. Although somehting about missing two in a row seems really bad

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  13. #84
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    When your 2nd pick is better than your 1st pick, I don't call that doing ok. Who is to say the present FO couldn't have done better with the 1st pick? Then we'll never know, but I'd like to think they could have.
    Plumlee may turn out to be the Pacers worst draft pick ever, I have no idea. But it is way, way, way way too early to know that our second pick is better than our first pick. Too early. Right now, sure he is, but lets wait another two years.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-05-2013 at 11:26 AM.

  14. #85

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I a scout to watch him in person for several games last season. If they did and if that scout gave the OK to sign Green, then that scout doesn't know what he is doing.
    Probably the same scout that said Plumlee is the next Jeff Foster. Their games have nothing in common.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Probably the same scout that said Plumlee is the next Jeff Foster. Their games have nothing in common.
    Yeah, rebounders and defenders have nothing in common. You can say Foster did it at a much higher level, of course, but Plumlee filled the exact role with Duke that Foster did here. It's easily assumed that it's the very reason why he was brought in, considering the timing with Jeff and all.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Goyle View Post
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    "When your 2nd pick is better than your 1st pick, I don't call that doing ok." I'm saying getting value that late is a damn good job drafting.
    I think we can also say the same about late first round picks, as well, especially in a weak draft. Don't get me wrong, "good" selections have been made in the late first round. But I think more often than not, players that pan out that late in the draft process could be classified as "fortunate" or "lucky". It's kind of similar to a squirrel being lucky enough to sniff out and burrow for a nut in two feet of snow.

    All I can say is that I don't see Plumlee playing much of a role during the duration of his contract. For that reason, considering our tight cap situation, I think that 1m is a lot to tie up in a practice dummy. The same thing can be said for Green, except that his costs are 3.5m for two more seasons. If the Pacers are able to dump them this summer for the cost of their low first round pick, or even that pick plus this year's AND next year's low, meaningless second round picks, I would do it.

    Even if the Pacers elect to trade Granger, money will be tight after we sign West. So we need to gain as much wiggle room as possible by dumping the players that will serve no purpose for us. It will take a trade to rid ourselves of Plumlee and Green; the normal expiration of contracts will take of the rest.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    All I can say is that I don't see Plumlee playing much of a role during the duration of his contract. For that reason, considering our tight cap situation, I think that 1m is a lot to tie up in a practice dummy.
    So they should have traded the pick for a TE?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So they should have traded the pick for a TE?
    No. My wishes for the pick would have been:
    1. Trade it with a disposable player for a player that is better or to dump the disposable player's contract.
    2. Trade it with a disposable player to get a higher pick.
    3. Trade it with a low-end rotational player to get a much higher pick.
    4. Use it to draft a player. Who knows? You might get lucky.

    I would never use a first- round pick for the sole purpose of getting a trade exception. History seems to indicate that we would never use the exception. At least I cannot recall one instance when we have. So, salary dump yes. TE (only) no.

    And, please keep in mind I'm talking about low draft position. I couldn't really say where my cut- off point would be. It would depend on how weak the draft was and what players were likely to be available at our draft position.

    But even in not using the pick for selection, there will always be a player or two selected at your position or lower that pans out. The real kicker is whether you would actually have been knowledgeable enough, or more often, "lucky" enough, to actually select one of them. But no matter what, someone will always call out TPTB for missing that nut in that two feet of snow.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    So a 1M practice dummy is too expensive with the cap situation going on, but taking that 1M combining another player/salary with it, and turning it into one player with a bigger salary is the better option?

    Maybe for actual basketball reasons, depending on who you get in return, but I would think for salary situations 2 players at X amount is better than one player at X amount.


    I'm all for trying to turn a pick or a bench player into a different player that contributes, but the salary situation is going to get that much tighter.

  21. #91

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    theres really no minutes for plumlee right now. that might change next year if hansbrough/west are not brought back

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by mrknowname View Post
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    theres really no minutes for plumlee right now. that might change next year if hansbrough/west are not brought back
    At a qualifying offer of 4,225,423 there is that distinct possibility.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  23. #93

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    and yes Bulls fans are the absolute worst when it comes to being front running jock sniffing egotistical snot bags, among other things, so no they weren’t going to come here and sit quietly.
    No, they're not. Why are we always so bitter towards them for coming to support their team? Every team has fans who are Dbags, its natural that big markets will have more. They're not half as bad as the worst Lakers fans and Knicks fans to offer.

    But more importantly, why the hell do people always label them as "bandwagon" or "front running"? Last I checked these are people who are driving 3 hours to watch their 33-25 team play without their star player. These are fans who showed up to games BEFORE Rose came through, are we doing to blame them for showing up after? Seriously, I have no idea where the hell we get the right to label them like that, Bulls fans show up no matter what.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace Maker View Post
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    No, they're not. Why are we always so bitter towards them for coming to support their team? Every team has fans who are Dbags, its natural that big markets will have more. They're not half as bad as the worst Lakers fans and Knicks fans to offer.

    But more importantly, why the hell do people always label them as "bandwagon" or "front running"? Last I checked these are people who are driving 3 hours to watch their 33-25 team play without their star player. These are fans who showed up to games BEFORE Rose came through, are we doing to blame them for showing up after? Seriously, I have no idea where the hell we get the right to label them like that, Bulls fans show up no matter what.
    Oh maybe because there is friendly rivalry and then just idiots who want to start a fight over a basketball game. Never experienced it with Laker, Celtic, Knick, Heat or even Piston fans during the brawl years. But I've had plenty of Bulls fans attempt to get into my face at games. They're a special breed.

    On to your other point.... I have to disagree because I sure don't remember this wonderful Bulls fans base coming to Pacer games between the Jordan years and Rose when they were pretty crappy.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace Maker View Post
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    No, they're not. Why are we always so bitter towards them for coming to support their team? Every team has fans who are Dbags, its natural that big markets will have more. They're not half as bad as the worst Lakers fans and Knicks fans to offer.

    But more importantly, why the hell do people always label them as "bandwagon" or "front running"? Last I checked these are people who are driving 3 hours to watch their 33-25 team play without their star player. These are fans who showed up to games BEFORE Rose came through, are we doing to blame them for showing up after? Seriously, I have no idea where the hell we get the right to label them like that, Bulls fans show up no matter what.
    Because they aren't driving 3 hrs from Chicago.

    I have a ton of Bulls fans friends that were born and raised in Indy. And yes, they're part of the douches that go to BLF. And yes, I call them douches.

  27. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    Oh maybe because there is friendly rivalry and then just idiots who want to start a fight over a basketball game. Never experienced it with Laker, Celtic, Knick, Heat or even Piston fans during the brawl years. But I've had plenty of Bulls fans attempt to get into my face at games. They're a special breed.

    On to your other point.... I have to disagree because I sure don't remember this wonderful Bulls fans base coming to Pacer games between the Jordan years and Rose when they were pretty crappy.
    They might not have been filling up other stadiums quite as much, but you better believe they were filling up the United Center every single game. So they might be more interested in traveling more when they're team is better? Are we going to blame them for that?

    Sorry but when fans who travel (some at least) to support their 4th seeded 33-25 team playing without their star player are labeled as bandwagoners, something is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Because they aren't driving 3 hrs from Chicago.

    I have a ton of Bulls fans friends that were born and raised in Indy. And yes, they're part of the douches that go to BLF. And yes, I call them douches.
    A lot of them are. in fact coming from Chicago, I know a group of my friends who went with around ~60 people from their college. Call them douches all you want, but labeling them as bandwagon or front runners just comes off as jealous

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pace Maker View Post
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    A lot of them are. in fact coming from Chicago, I know a group of my friends who went with around ~60 people from their college. Call them douches all you want, but labeling them as bandwagon or front runners just comes off as jealous
    I don't think anyone is calling them those names.

    Yes it's a rather generic statement, but it's aimed at those who fit the bill, not 100% of the Chicago fan base. I can think of a few other terms that might, not not those specifically.

    A guy born in raised in Indy, going to school at LN, going to an Indiana college, rooting for the Bulls with no family ties or anything, just because MJ was at the top when they started watching NBA would be the textbook definition of frontrunner/bandwagoner, IMHO.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-05-2013 at 02:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Anymore, I don't really care who roots for what team and why. The only thing that offends me is when people come to BLF and are impudent or belligerent or get physical with opposing fans (assuming, of course, said fans weren't just as guilty and baiting them).

    Some people root for the home team, some people root for their favorite players, some people just root for the greatest players and teams. Some do it all the time, so only when things are bright. I don't care.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Really? I thought Teague looked lost out there for most of the game. It was probably one of his worst games of the season. Both of their PGs got shut down but in the games I've seen the Bulls play, Robinson has been the better PG.
    Bulls D was much, much better with Teague.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yeah, rebounders and defenders have nothing in common. You can say Foster did it at a much higher level, of course, but Plumlee filled the exact role with Duke that Foster did here. It's easily assumed that it's the very reason why he was brought in, considering the timing with Jeff and all.

    We can discuss Plumlee until the cows come home. If Plumlee wasn't as old as he is, then maybe the pick wouldn't be as bad as there is TIME to let him develop, but that's not the case. I don't expect much more from Plumlee next year either as the Pacers are in a "win now mode".

    I wanted to trade out of the draft last year, and if the Pacers stay close to where they are now in the standings what is there to look forward to in what is considered a weaker draft this year? Another Plumlee? Apparently, the FO felt this coming draft will produce some future jewel when they refused to put the pick in trades at the TD.

    People keep saying the Pacers need these picks for salary reasons, well I counter saying there are plenty of Sam Young and Ben Hansbroughs to fill out a roster cheaply w/o having to give guaranteed contracts like later 1st round picks get. Combined both Sam and Ben salaries are not much more than Plumlee's.
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 03-05-2013 at 03:44 PM.

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