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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I know the hip thing to do right now is to kick Plumlee, but we'll see what he's made of in the coming years. As for Teague, I don't recall who was telling me this privately, but I believe there were concerns about Teague's personality that scared Indiana away.
    The thing about Plumlee is that he will be 25 this September. That is why the pick was always so bad. If he was 21....different story.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    I always thought Plumlee was the Tyler backup plan as in Tyler may no longer be with the Pacers after this season.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The thing about Plumlee is that he will be 25 this September. That is why the pick was always so bad. If he was 21....different story.
    I'm not making a case for him to make a bunch of improvements, I'm making the case that we don't even really know what he's capable of at this level yet.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Why the Pacers drafted Plumlee over Teague is absolutely baffling to me.

    I've said this numerous times before, and I will always believe that Bird had no business doing the 012 drafting. The Walsh and Morway should has been doing the drafting. Seriously, how could they have drafted anyone worse than Plumlee? IMO, again IMO, Plumlee was a wasted draft pick. Personally, I don't feel you could outright trade Plumlee for a good 2nd rd pick in a future draft. Juice being a 2nd round pick last year is by faaar a better player than the 24 1/2 yo D-League/Inactive Plumlee. SMH

    Bird has never drafted a PG when a good PG was available, nor did he ever drafted a PG in the 1st round. IMO, Bird doesn't value PG's as much as other positional players in the draft. I might add that IMO Bird doesn't have a good grasp on players that play PG. Look at who he traded or signed:
    Ford
    Watson
    DC
    Jack
    Hill.

    The best of that group has been Jack and Hill, and both are true combo guards. While watching the game on tv last night, the annoucers talked about what type of a guard Hill was, and for the life of me I can't remember the word they used to describe him. It absolutely fit what he is as a guard. I wish now I had written it down. Anyone remember it?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Lead guard

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I've said this numerous times before, and I will always believe that Bird had no business doing the 012 drafting. The Walsh and Morway should has been doing the drafting. Seriously, how could they have drafted anyone worse than Plumlee? IMO, again IMO, Plumlee was a wasted draft pick. Personally, I don't feel you could outright trade Plumlee for a good 2nd rd pick in a future draft. Juice being a 2nd round pick last year is by faaar a better player than the 24 1/2 yo D-League/Inactive Plumlee. SMH

    Bird has never drafted a PG when a good PG was available, nor did he ever drafted a PG in the 1st round. IMO, Bird doesn't value PG's as much as other positional players in the draft. I might add that IMO Bird doesn't have a good grasp on players that play PG. Look at who he traded or signed:
    Ford
    Watson
    DC
    Jack
    Hill.

    The best of that group has been Jack and Hill, and both are true combo guards. While watching the game on tv last night, the annoucers talked about what type of a guard Hill was, and for the life of me I can't remember the word they used to describe him. It absolutely fit what he is as a guard. I wish now I had written it down. Anyone remember it?
    Our second round pick plays in our rotation, our other pick was the 26th pick of the draft. We did ok.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Teague has been overrated since he was a freshman in HS. I didn't want him on the Pacers at all.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I know the hip thing to do right now is to kick Plumlee, but we'll see what he's made of in the coming years. As for Teague, I don't recall who was telling me this privately, but I believe there were concerns about Teague's personality that scared Indiana away.
    Teague was a punk in HS but I'm sure he matured at UK. I was at a HS game at Warren vs Pike and the way he acted was terrible. Cussing out coaches and selfish. But he looked like a different player at uk he bought in to coach Cal. Teague is still a major project on the court. But Plumlee can't play basketball so it's really puzzling why we took him over a lot better prospects.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    Teague has been overrated since he was a freshman in HS. I didn't want him on the Pacers at all.
    At least Teague has the potential to be something decent down the line, unlike the player we drafted over him.

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  16. #35

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    At least Teague has the potential to be something decent down the line, unlike the player we drafted over him.
    Why can't Plumlee be decent? The dude is a rookie and hasn't played at all. I just don't get how you can make that conclusion without seeing him play.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Why can't Plumlee be decent? The dude is a rookie and hasn't played at all. I just don't get how you can make that conclusion without seeing him play.
    Fair enough, but I think that Teague has much more potential than Plumlee.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Why can't Plumlee be decent? The dude is a rookie and hasn't played at all. I just don't get how you can make that conclusion without seeing him play.
    I mean, I get the cynicism to a point because he was hardly a high quality college player, but at the same time you look at the tools he has to work with and you (at least I and some others) see why he might actually be a better pro than he was in college. I see legit size, strength, athleticism. I see a guy who could become a quality backup center on a team of this caliber who defends the post, rebounds, finishes around the rim, and perhaps blocks some shots. A reliable open mid range jumper wouldn't shock me down the line, either.

    Clearly anything but a sexy pick, but I see that potential in him, and that would be just fine IMO.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Anyone see Thibodieu's reaction at the end of the game after they lost the ball?

    You can see it here at the 2:28 mark

    http://www.nba.com/video/games/pacer...nba/index.html

    He was not happy....he slammed his fist on the scorer's table...and was REALLY p*ssed.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Clearly anything but a sexy pick, but I see that potential in him, and that would be just fine IMO.
    Especially when you see how the other recent draft picks have progressed.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    A small note here. I absolutely love Lance for what he brings to the table this season but has to be the worst at free throws from the starters. I mean, sometimes he gives you the impression that when he shoots his first free throw (from the two he has earned) that he doesn't know how much power he should put in it and then adjusts it on the second one. Hope he will improve on that.
    I hate that a Guard can't hit a FT.....cuz seriously....it's a "FREE" throw.

    But just like everything else.....I assume ( but hope ) that this aspect of his game can be worked on during the offseason. He worked on his shooting this last offseason...this upcoming season? FT shooting. Baby Steps is what I am expecting from Lance.....FT is the next Baby Step.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    I always thought Plumlee was the Tyler backup plan as in Tyler may no longer be with the Pacers after this season.
    The problem is that he's not a Backup PF...unless the plan is to move Mahinmi over to the backup PF spot and Plumlee to the backup Center spot.

    I suspect that Bird decided to pick what he thought to be the "BPA" ( whic his different than who actually is the "BPA" ) that wouldn't likely be available at whatever spot that OJ was picked.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I hate that a Guard can't hit a FT.....cuz seriously....it's a "FREE" throw.

    But just like everything else.....I assume ( but hope ) that this aspect of his game can be worked on during the offseason. He worked on his shooting this last offseason...this upcoming season? FT shooting. Baby Steps is what I am expecting from Lance.....FT is the next Baby Step.
    If I were the coach I would blow the whistle every ten minutes or so in the middle of practice and have Lance go shoot a free throw. If he makes it, fine. If he misses, run a lap or whatever. The point being that shooting a hundred free throws in a row helps some, obviously, but he always hits the second because he finds a groove. He needs to learn to hit the first one before he has developed a rhythm.
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  30. #43

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Our second round pick plays in our rotation, our other pick was the 26th pick of the draft. We did ok.
    When your 2nd pick is better than your 1st pick, I don't call that doing ok. Who is to say the present FO couldn't have done better with the 1st pick? Then we'll never know, but I'd like to think they could have.

    Here is my feeling. Bird was leaving, and wasn't going to be part of what Walsh and Morway were going to be doing this offspring to bolster the bench. Bird drafts a 24 yo rookie to be a b/u 5. How many years does it take to develop a big man? The Pacers need a good b/u 5 NOW, not 3-5 years from now, thus enter Ian Mahinmi. Even if Plumlee is drafted as the future b/u PF he's not remotely close to filling that position either. Pacers are in "win now mode" and no one should know this better than Bird, yet he drafts a player who is lucky if he gets to sit on the bench, is constantly inactive, or plays in the D-League periodically. This just wasn't the correct player to have drafted. My guess is that out of the next 80-90% of players drafted after Plumlee to #45 have more PT this season than Plumlee. I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers pick at #60 Rob't Sacre hasn't played more than Plumlee!

    Really, what are the assets of Plumlee besides size? Please don't tell me his high jumping ability, b/c I've watched Plumlee play all his games this season. His brother Mason, who plays at Duke, looks to be a better player. Why do I have a feeling that Miles Plumlee will be viewed as the next Scott Hastings? Just another wasted pick.

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  32. #44
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Here is my feeling. Bird was leaving, and wasn't going to be part of what Walsh and Morway were going to be doing
    So much so that Morway wasn't going to be a part of it either ;-)
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Really, Morway!?! not once, but twice??

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    I would say that there is a 20% chance that Bird thought he was drafting Mason.

    Having said that, Miles is a big body that is somewhat athletic. How does having one of those in your back pocket over the next four years at about 1million per year really that bad of a scenario? You guys are mad because he isn't playing right now. How is Perry doing right now? You guys complain about DJ, but you think Teague would be an upgrade? Lamb would have been a factor? He was traded in a package as filler for a 2 month rental. Once you get out of the lottery, talent is hard to come by. Sometimes you try to hit a single instead of trying to hit homeruns and striking out.

  35. #47

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I mean, I get the cynicism to a point because he was hardly a high quality college player, but at the same time you look at the tools he has to work with and you (at least I and some others) see why he might actually be a better pro than he was in college. I see legit size, strength, athleticism. I see a guy who could become a quality backup center on a team of this caliber who defends the post, rebounds, finishes around the rim, and perhaps blocks some shots. A reliable open mid range jumper wouldn't shock me down the line, either.

    Clearly anything but a sexy pick, but I see that potential in him, and that would be just fine IMO.

    I've seen him play as well, and I don't get that feeling at all. My quesation is "when is Plumlee going to get the PT to transform himself into a good b/u 5? I stated b4 the Pacers are in "win now mode", and Plumlee is 6th big man. Even if the Pacers "bigs" roster stays the same next year with or w/o Pendergraph, he will only get sparse PT. He'll be 25 yo and a project at best. If he was 20-22 yo, I might see some possible future after another couple of years honing his skills, but he isn't 20-22.

    Pendy has ONLY played 22 games with a total 165 minutes of play, and he's the #5 big.

    Plumlee has played in 8 games with a total of 27 minutes of play at the #6 big.

    At 8 games played, Plumlee is normally not dressed so even if there is garbage time Plumlee isn't available to get any PT. How do you develop a 24 1/2 yo player to be a productive b/u when he never gets any game PT?

    I don't profess to know how practices are run, but how much play does Plumlee get in practice when the top 10 players are getting the bulk of the practice scrimages? To me if Plumlee has the potential Bird saw in him wouldn't it be best served for him to be in the D-League where he is getting plenty of game PT and practice time play to develop?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    To me if Plumlee has the potential Bird saw in him wouldn't it be best served for him to be in the D-League where he is getting plenty of game PT and practice time play to develop?
    Are we talking about Plumlee or Lance? That exact sentiment was used against Lance, or for Lance whatever, for the past two years, now look where he is.

  37. #49

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Are we talking about Plumlee or Lance? That exact sentiment was used against Lance, or for Lance whatever, for the past two years, now look where he is.

    Lance was 19 too, and Plumlee is 24, big difference. Plumlee is a big and bigs take longer to develop, right? How much time is worth investing in a rookie big going on 25?

    EDIT: Lance being only 19 the Pacers had the luxury to patiently develop Lance. Plumlee at 24 the Pacers don't have the luxury of taking their time to develop Plumlee.
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 03-04-2013 at 05:57 PM.

  38. #50
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Are we talking about Plumlee or Lance? That exact sentiment was used against Lance, or for Lance whatever, for the past two years, now look where he is.
    Lance was 19 year old project who spent one relatively productive season in college when he was drafted. Plumlee was a 24 year old senior who just posted career bests of 6.6 pts and 7.1 rebs on a team who got knocked out of the NCAA tournament by Lehigh.

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