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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Why do I know the Pacers as a team are actually pretty good? Because we played like absolute crap for the most part, struggled against a very well coached team who knew that tonight’s loss would cost them the season series and lower bracketing in the playoffs and we still won.

    I will concede they are missing a lot of key elements to their team but I will not give them the excuse of the back to back thing because, well our season has been one long back to back and in one case back to back to back thanks to them.

    We had some players step up tonight and then we had a few players who just stepped back. But again this is credit to Pacers players, coaching and in this case management that is how our team is designed.

    There is no one star player on our team, you can’t just focus on shutting down one player and allowing the other players to get theirs because in our system our power forward can score as well as and often times better than our small forward. Our Center can give you points when you aren’t getting anything from your point guard and so on and so forth.

    Thus tonight’s problem for the Bulls. They were able to cause Lance & Paul difficulty’s and you could tell the defense was geared to limit the open attempts by either, but like almost any other time that happens West & Hill took over but the added bonus that is once again starting to get going was that Roy also added points in the paint and thus causing real problems for them.

    Tonight’s thoughts are going to be short and in fact I’m going to go bullet point style.

    • The bench was just flat out awful. Being outscored 31-8 is never good and thankfully we have off till Wed. so that we can rest up but this just can’t continue.
    • What has happened to Ian Mahinmi? Over the past few games he has just been atrocious and even though he led the bench in scoring I just feel like there is now a massive drop off when he comes in for Roy, it wasn’t that way even just a month ago.
    • I saw Danny bend over and rub his knee after he missed his third shot. I knew immediately by the look on his face he was in pain. When he went to the bench the dude looked nauseated. I’ve seen Danny enough to know when something is wrong and I’m telling you something was wrong and it wasn’t just typical soreness. I hope there is no damage but again his face both on the floor and on the bench did not say “typical soreness” to me.
    • Twitter sucks in the fieldhouse. I know they have the new wireless up but I swear its worse since its been up. I end up having 20 drafts not sent that I eventually discard due to them being time and incident sensitive.
    • D.J. Augustine is back to being the invisible man again. 2 free throws for almost 13 min of floor time ain’t going to cut it.
    • I think it’s well past official time to just come out and say that the Gerald Green signing was a colossal failure. He was brought here to add offense to the club and on a night where our bench scores 8 points he can’t even get on the floor. Second round pick Orlando Johnson & league min. player Sam Young get floor time above him. Barbosa on whatever salary the Celtics signed him for would have been 10 times better than what Green has given us. I keep wondering if Green isn’t some form of payback to Falk (his agent) for something because I just can’t believe that we were bamboozled this badly.
    • David West is the best power forward to ever play for the Pacers in the NBA. It will be hard to ever compare him to Big Mac because of era’s and league but I have to believe that really probably isn’t far behind him either.
    • Paul George had a bad game. Odd to say that considering he was only 4 assists off of a triple double but I just think he was sloppy tonight. How he is only credited with 4 turn over though is beyond me, by my count he had 43. He played good defense on Belinelli for most of the night but Marco still got his points. But again I won’t argue with anyone who wants to tell me that if this is what is considered a bad game than he has to be a very good player.
    • George Hill is the Man.
    • George Hill is not the Man when we need to hit a clutch free throw. In fact let us all agree that George Hill needs to get the ball in the hands of about anyone else late in the game if we are down 2 and need free throws to tie.
    • Roy Hibbert has now strung together a group of several games where he has played at a high level and contributed. As anyone who saw the Clippers game can tell you that Roy is to our defense as oxygen is to human’s ability to live. But now he is giving you some offense again and he is back to rebounding at a pretty high level.
    • Tyler actually once again played decent defense when he was in. It’s funny because he now can’t score on most nights and his jump shot is just a distant memory but he actually plays solid perimeter defense. Who knew this would happen?
    • Orlando struggled in his short time on the floor. Nothing but love though as he is a rookie and he is learning.
    • Lance was taken out of the game by a couple of really cheap foul calls which is to bad because he looked like he was starting to warm up. He had a beautiful wrap around pass at the beginning of the game to West off of a fast break for a layup.

    Okay let’s talk about the Bulls fans in attendance tonight and again, let’s try and deal with the attendance in general without the hyperbole and teeth gnashing that some of us do.

    Simply stated the Bulls home games are always sold out, Bulls fans can not go to Bulls.com or the box office and buy tickets. Indiana is a 3 hour drive, depending on where in Chicago you are coming from and traffic and such. Bulls fans know the schedule like everyone else does at the beginning of the season and they purchase single tickets to this game as soon as they become available. There were not a long line of Bulls fans going out front to the ticket booth to buy tickets, they already had them. Also like it or not there are a lot of Bulls fans who live in central Illinois, Northern Indiana and yes even some from right here in Indianapolis

    Many were calling it United Center South & I’m sorry but that is just hyperbole. I would say that it was probably 70-30 (Diamond Dave & I differ on this as I actually think it was closer to 80-20 but I’ll concede the point) Pacers fans. Yes there were pockets of them that made it look and seem larger than it was and yes Bulls fans are the absolute worst when it comes to being front running jock sniffing egotistical snot bags, among other things, so no they weren’t going to come here and sit quietly.

    But I do not want this to turn into another let’s bash the local population party that some of us like to do. The fans are coming back and we have now had like 5 or 6 really good crowds in a row. We are currently 26th in attendance and we are only 75 people per game behind the Hawks for 25th. Should it be higher? Yes, but I’m saying it is getting higher each game.

    Also for the record I am calling B.S. on the Hawks home attendance, the 76ers home attendance and worst of all the Raptors home attendance which is listed at 13th. If you watched Friday nights game you saw a lot of people disguised as empty seats. I even asked Wells about it to make sure I wasn’t just seeing something on TV but he confirmed that it was poorly attended. Toronto, on a Friday night, with a team at the time that was on a winning streak playing against a division rival who they had previously beaten and it was a poorly attended game. Toronto which boast a 2.6 million population could not sell out that game. So I think I’m tired of hearing about Indian’s fans not coming to games.

    Either way, at the end of the year we will just look back on this game a s a win. It won’t matter how we won or deserved to win or anything else like that, it’s just a win. It is also an important win as this puts us in the catbird seat in the division (we control our own destiny now with that) and thus assuring us a top 4 seed in the playoffs. In other words home court advantage.

    I almost forgot the entire reason I wanted to post something tonight anyway.

    Huzzah to Frank Vogel for getting his 100th victory as Indiana's head coach. I've already sung the praises and everyone knows I am a Vogel fan boy but I can't let it pass without at least proclaiming his greatness again. Thank you Frank for making the entire time in Hell I spent having to watch Satan ruin a team seem almost worth it. Well honestly since the only way we got Frank was by suffering through that then, well yeah it was worth it. Hoop & I both talked prior to the Clippers game about how bad it was back then but we both agreed that we are being rewarded right now.

    All Hail The Vogel!!!!



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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    even though i'm happy with the team and our record, this bench worries me a lot for the playoffs. granger starting and one starter going to bench would help but i'm not sure it will be enough. you need more than one good bench player in the playoffs. and as stated earlier in another thread we won't be playing against a howardless orlando this year.
    Last edited by xtacy; 03-04-2013 at 05:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    • David West is the best power forward to ever play for the Pacers in the NBA. It will be hard to ever compare him to Big Mac because of era’s and league but I have to believe that really probably isn’t far behind him either.


    JO was sort of a tweener, but i believe he had a power forward game, and was better all-around than West. I do think however that West might be the best Scoring power forward we ever had. He has so many ways of scoring down there. He has range. He's strong. He's quick. He can create room for himself. Amazing.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    I agree Mahinmi has been disappointing defensively as of late. Particularly in the Clippers game.

    On offense though he has been surprisingly aggressive and just not rewarded for it by the officials. Dude has been flat out mugged a couple of times.

    PG has to know better that to throw the guy tough passes in traffic too.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    There's, at least, one moment in every game that West is yelling at Ian for not sliding over on defense when someone gets beat by their man.

    And PG needs to tone down the turnovers!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    The division title is pretty meaningless this year. Winning your division guarantees the 4th seed, but it does not guarantee home court advantage. And in this particular race, the Pacers would probably rather be 6th than 4th with no homecourt advantage (since there would be very little difference between first round opponents and 4th would lock them in to facing Miami in round 2). So even if the Pacers end up using that "benefit" from winning that division (and I doubt they will drop that far), one could question if that would be beneficial to them at all.

    Winning the tiebreaker over Chicago does have a small benefit though in case things go badly between now and the end of the season.

    Edit: After looking at it further, I did find one big benefit to winning your division. The NBA put in a rule a few years ago the division winners automatically win tiebreaks over non division winners. So let's say the Knicks finished 2nd and the Pacers tie the Nets for 3rd. The Pacers would get the 3rd seed even though the Nets have already won the season series. A division winning Pacers would also automatically have the tiebreaker over the Hawks as well no matter where they finish since they won't pass Miami for the division. That is potentially helpful.
    Last edited by Cubs231721; 03-04-2013 at 08:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    There are parts of the game this year that really bother me but I look the other way. One thing is Paul Georges Turnovers. His biggest knock was he was to laid back and didn't punish defenses He has actively tried to be better at that this year. It is something he is working on and while it may turn into a turnover now, once he figures it out and makes it a skill we will look back and say I sure am glad he tried those things against a leagues leading defense.

    I do agree that David West is the best PF to come through here. JO was great, I watched almost every game he played in this uniform, there is one thing he did not have though and it was leadership. He was to soft spoken. Plug JO into this line and we only have 3/4 the wins we do right now. Paul George is the All Star but West is the grit, there is going to be a day when we thank baby ***** for his time here because he is rubbing off on Roy, PG, Hill, and Lance.

    I am done with that damn baseball pass though. We do not score enough to add turnovers to the table. These guys do not treat every possession seriously. That is their main fault right now. I honestly believe they think they can just get the ball back on the other end because they are so good defensively.

    Lance plays with some real passion. He is overly smart on the court as well. Hill for some reason has a hard time with noticing match ups and hot players. It must be the 2 guard in him. Lance on the other hand knows when he gets the ball who needs the ball. Its simply a thing of beauty to see him abuse other teams on match ups and feed the ball to west or Hibbert when they have a smaller player on them. He knows right where they like it, just how high they want it, when they are completely sealed. This may not sound like much but in the NBA game its HUGE.

    Let Granger get back into game shape people. He is out there playing against people who have logged a entire season of minutes and he is just in his third game back. This week alone he had the task of rudy gay, caron butler, and loul deng. Three guys no SF really ever wants to see on the other side of the floor. Let him get 10 games in before we start judging because until then all your honestly doing is wasting your breath. Right now all we can hope is he gives us a few points a game while he figures out the speed, builds his conditioning, and works with his teammates.

    People undervalue Hibbert to much. He pulled down another 5 Offensive rebounds last night. I know people say he is not a good rebounder but the guy has been at the top of the list of offensive rebounds all year. The only reason he doesn't lead in defensive rebounds is because he leads in shot blocks instead. Its hard to pull down a rebound when your up in the air trying to protect the rim. Another solid defensive showing by him.

    Hill was just on fire. Great game by him. But has Peck said, him and lance need to learn how to shoot free throws.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    I have a lot of respect for Thibs, but why Nate is still starting over Teague is absolutely baffling to me.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I have a lot of respect for Thibs, but why Nate is still starting over Teague is absolutely baffling to me.

    Why the Pacers drafted Plumlee over Teague is absolutely baffling to me.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Also, Lance seems to me like he may have a lingering hip issue that he reaggravates every time he runs through a screen. It's been like for the past few games. Dude runs through screens like a mad man, which I can appreciate, but often times his hip gets caught up and takes a big hit.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Why the Pacers drafted Plumlee over Teague is absolutely baffling to me.
    Fair point.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by pogi View Post
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    There's, at least, one moment in every game that West is yelling at Ian for not sliding over on defense when someone gets beat by their man.

    And PG needs to tone down the turnovers!
    Yeah Ian watched Radmanovic walk to the hoop for a dunk in the first half. Vogel yanked his *** the very next timeout.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Paul could cut back on a lot of turnovers if he went up hard at the rim looking for contact instead of always looking for a cutesy pass.

    BTW, the BAMF's numbers over the last 5 games 22 PPG 8 RPG 1.6 SPG 3 APG 54.8% FG Getting to the line 7 times a game. How was he not an all star? Seriously what a crime, but thanks to the other EC coaches for giving Frank a built in motivator and to give DWest yet another chip to play with. I hope he comes out next Sunday and just puts the hammer down on Hall of Famer Chris Bosh.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 03-04-2013 at 09:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    I thought it was closer to 60/40 Pacers fans from my balcony view.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by BPump33 View Post
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    I thought it was closer to 60/40 Pacers fans from my balcony view.
    I'm with Peck on this. There is a decent sized pocket behind the Bulls bench and a decent pocket in the SouthEast corner of the balcony, but otherwise, I thought it was mostly P's fans.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    One point about the announcers. While I felt like the ghost of Bill Walton had invaded my TV with all the bowing and scraping to the Bulls while the Pacers were winning, they actually talked about the game, told us who fouled, how many fouls they had, gave stats on the players, and told us when a player was substituted, and who shot and scored rather than some stupid story or joke!. (I believe my HS English teacher would point out that the previous sentence was too long...lol)

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    Whatever actual number of Bulls fans there were, they were at least 50-50 in the loudness department, at least from my seat. Seemed like there were a lot of "stealth" fans not wearing gear but cheering for them.

    Regarding Twitter, mine has been working great on the fieldhouse wifi.


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Whatever actual number of Bulls fans there were, they were at least 50-50 in the loudness department, at least from my seat. Seemed like there were a lot of "stealth" fans not wearing gear but cheering for them.

    Regarding Twitter, mine has been working great on the fieldhouse wifi.


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    Bill the bigges tpocket of Bulls fans was right over our shoulder in the balcony. Why we heard them so clearly.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    So everybody is talking about this stare of death from D Rose after the game, where he stared down our bench and had a smirk on his face. I think it's great how they talk about the Pacers aren't anything to worry about, but this shows that they are passionate to play against us.

    I'm not scared of the Bulls anymore, even with Rose playing because he changes the dynamic of their team and we can adjust to that. Hopefully he is back in our last game against them so we can beat them without the excuses.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Something seems off about the whole Rose situation honestly. I would be concerned if I am a Bulls fan.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Why the Pacers drafted Plumlee over Teague is absolutely baffling to me.
    I know the hip thing to do right now is to kick Plumlee, but we'll see what he's made of in the coming years. As for Teague, I don't recall who was telling me this privately, but I believe there were concerns about Teague's personality that scared Indiana away.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Paul could cut back on a lot of turnovers if he went up hard at the rim looking for contact instead of always looking for a cutesy pass.

    BTW, the BAMF's numbers over the last 5 games 22 PPG 8 RPG 1.6 SPG 3 APG 54.8% FG Getting to the line 7 times a game. How was he not an all star? Seriously what a crime, but thanks to the other EC coaches for giving Frank a built in motivator and to give DWest yet another chip to play with. I hope he comes out next Sunday and just puts the hammer down on Hall of Famer Chris Bosh.
    I mean, some of them are cutesy, but others are passes that if his teammates were ready for them would be buckets or trips to the foul line for them. So I think part of this is on his teammates to get used to the fact that he's capable of making those passes. Although, yes, some of them were forced.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Why the Pacers drafted Plumlee over Teague is absolutely baffling to me.
    Well to be fair to Plumlee, he hasn't gotten enough playing time to judge how well he fits in the NBA. Anyway, with the position he's fighting with there's virtually no way he'll be getting enough PT. We'll just have to see what the plan is for him in the coming years if ever he's not traded.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I know the hip thing to do right now is to kick Plumlee, but we'll see what he's made of in the coming years. As for Teague, I don't recall who was telling me this privately, but I believe there were concerns about Teague's personality that scared Indiana away.
    I remember reading Tbirds analysis of Teague and thinking the same thing.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...t=#post1456468

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Bull Chips....

    A small note here. I absolutely love Lance for what he brings to the table this season but has to be the worst at free throws from the starters. I mean, sometimes he gives you the impression that when he shoots his first free throw (from the two he has earned) that he doesn't know how much power he should put in it and then adjusts it on the second one. Hope he will improve on that.

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