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Thread: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Is it 100% established that his condition can never improve? If so, why would we expect him to ever be right again?

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Is it 100% established that his condition can never improve? If so, why would we expect him to ever be right again?
    My understanding is that the issues don't structurally affect strength or flexibility as such, at least at this point. It is all a matter of how much the inflammation causes pain or hesitation in movement. That means it is a matter of getting the inflammation down and working with the amount of pain. My understanding is that, while that won't ever go away, it can be ameliorated.
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  3. #128

    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    I fear that Danny is going to be a 10/12 minute player off the bench with zero back 2 back games. This might help the Pacers and Danny when the playoffs start because of the play and then rest format. Maybe not, though.

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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    My understanding is that the issues don't structurally affect strength or flexibility as such, at least at this point. It is all a matter of how much the inflammation causes pain or hesitation in movement. That means it is a matter of getting the inflammation down and working with the amount of pain. My understanding is that, while that won't ever go away, it can be ameliorated.
    If that's the case, it seems confusing to me why resting it for 3.5 months was seen as an appropriate method of treatment or otherwise a method of pain management. Seems like it'd be a matter of how well you can deal with it (and with what types of medication to help with that).

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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    If that's the case, it seems confusing to me why resting it for 3.5 months was seen as an appropriate method of treatment or otherwise a method of pain management. Seems like it'd be a matter of how well you can deal with it (and with what types of medication to help with that).
    Again, my understanding - and this is also from personal experience with tendinITis (yes, I know it isn't exactly the same) - is that the inflammation becomes chronic and you need to go through complete rest in order to get it back to zero.
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  6. #131
    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Again, my understanding - and this is also from personal experience with tendinITis (yes, I know it isn't exactly the same) - is that the inflammation becomes chronic and you need to go through complete rest in order to get it back to zero.
    Yeah, there is little to no inflammation with chronic tendonosis. But it is usually an overuse injury, so rest is appropriate to try and break the cycle of degeneration (micro tears).

    http://www.tendinosis.org/index.shtml
    Last edited by gummy; 03-05-2013 at 07:00 PM.
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  8. #132

    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I still think it's normal. I think some just had heightened expectations for how people recover from knee injuries. Like I said if you are recovering from a knee injury you should know this. It's not an easy path, there is almost always a new hill to climb every time you climb the previous one until the knee is at 100%. The Pacers never promised Danny would be 100% at any point this season, they hoped like everyone else, but hope is just hope.

    This is all I'm saying.

    Danny just came back and was just cleared to play. Of course he hasn't looked good. Of course he's going to have some soreness. And of course the Pacers organization are going to be in the line of "better safe than sorry."

    If, in April..Danny is still missing every other game, unable to play more than 10 minutes and still looks terrible...then worry. Now? seriously? Has anyone seen what players look like after coming back from a knee injury? Because not good is typically the answer.

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  10. #133
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    This is all I'm saying.

    Danny just came back and was just cleared to play. Of course he hasn't looked good. Of course he's going to have some soreness. And of course the Pacers organization are going to be in the line of "better safe than sorry."

    If, in April..Danny is still missing every other game, unable to play more than 10 minutes and still looks terrible...then worry. Now? seriously? Has anyone seen what players look like after coming back from a knee injury? Because not good is typically the answer.

    "above-average soreness in his left knee" no "some soreness".

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    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    "above-average soreness in his left knee" no "some soreness".
    Do you see "above average soreness" as being "a LITTLE more sore than expected" or "a LOT more sore than expected"? Considering the phrase is vague enough to span the range from "this isn't going quite as well as we'd hoped, let's take it easier" to "this is worse than we ever expected, we have a problem" I don't see why, at this stage at least, there is some terrible sin being committed by people leaning more toward the former than the latter? Not everyone has to be an extreme pessimist.

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  13. #135
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Do you see "above average soreness" as being "a LITTLE more sore than expected" or "a LOT more sore than expected"?
    A lot more than expected or he would be playing or practicing, "knee soreness" is the reason why he got the german treatment, the injection and went to rehab to begging with.

    Considering the phrase is vague enough to span the range from "this isn't going quite as well as we'd hoped, let's take it easier" to "this is worse than we ever expected, we have a problem" I don't see why, at this stage at least, there is some terrible sin being committed by people leaning more toward the former than the latter? Not everyone has to be an extreme pessimist.
    Is not about been a pessimist is about seeing the reports and so far the reports are not that positive.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 03-05-2013 at 09:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    One nice thing about this little side debate is that it should be apparent pretty soon. If he's not back on the floor making some degree of progress during the next couple weeks, I would consider that bad news. If he's not out there making progress in 4 weeks, we need to forget about him contributing in the playoffs. He will need a solid month to get in shape without having any setbacks. Good luck is all I'm thinking about.

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  16. #137

    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Is not about been a pessimist is about seeing the reports and so far the reports are not that positive.
    Did I miss the reports of him being out for the rest of the year? Or the reports of him even being out against the Celtics? Because the reports I've seen so far is that he's day to day. You're interpreting what you want to read instead of what's actually being reported.

    Granger didn't come back 100% healed. It's completely reasonable after missing the first 40+ games that he he'll need to sit out an occasional practice or even game. Maybe it is worse than they're letting on, we'll know soon enough.

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  18. #138
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    i dont see any hope in a fanbase becoming overly concerned. the entire fanbase knew there was some chance Granger may have to shut it back down. if that happens i believe this team can still reach the ECF.

    with that said. i dont really expect much from Granger going this season. i saw the play and immediately observed Granger rub the knee. it was obvious. considering he stated himself he is 65%. with the injury i believve its down to below 50. it was clear Granger was not ready. by the time he is the playoffs will be underway.

    the progress of Pulp, Augustine, Hans, Mahnimi can re-establish chemistry. it sucks. theres a sliver of hope Granger returns, but if he is not close too healthy then im not sure the value he brings other than shooting.


    all in all.

    i believe the Pacers need to implement a new form of stragety regarding roster acquisitions. the Belichickean method of stockpiling draft picks would be a great way to build exclusively via draft. specifically. making risky trades with picks. for example. last years pick of Plumlee may have been better served in letting someone move up for that teams first the following. somewhat risking that it will be a higher selection. the same could be done this upcoming season. trading off present day picks and potentially assets for future picks that could go up significantly in value.

    just an idea for a small market team. not many GM's can get that done obviously. thats why Belicheat is one of the best. Legend long term could easily take that path.

    I bring all this up i guess because its likely the best we can get for Danny. i just get the feeling were gonna shut him down for the rest of the season.

    and im perfectly okay with it. Stephenson now become the legitimate starter for this team. Granger @ 70% is still an upgrade over Greene or Young. and a solid reserve for spot minutes in the playoffs.

    why does Gerald Greene gotta suck!

  19. #139
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    IU game sucked.

    anyone notice that after Grangers best game.. vs Clipps where he really kept us in it. that now he cannot play longer than one series. means he went hard in that clipps game and really tested his knee. he will be alright but its obvious he is still a ways off. enough to really even consider how much value he brings other than as a reserve at SF. which is strongly needed.

    Dannys presense really disrupts the second unit though. everyone else dissapeears. as much as Coach Vogel wants to remain positive. at some point stating our starting 5 is set willl be a settling point for the Blue and Gold this year.

    i really like the starting 5 for this unit. Stephenson and DWEST are playing well. Lance is getting bettter by leaps and bounds. right now it probably the better player between Granger and Lance. and Lance conintues to improve. unlike JOB.

    Coach Vogel knows whats up.

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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...



    I always think it's helpful when there's video available, sometimes inflection and body language can help you read between the lines. Not here, but still lol.

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  22. #141
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Well if a pacers.com guy is raising concerns on his blog, then it's certainly fair to bring them up here.
    If you are referring to Bruno, he's no longer an insider. He's no longer at Pacers.com.

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  24. #142

    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    If anything, I'd say that's a positive report. Will find out how positive tomorrow night.

  25. #143
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    If you are referring to Bruno, he's no longer an insider. He's no longer at Pacers.com.
    Which means you could argue that there's a better chance of getting a non-sunshiner report from him.
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  27. #144
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDC View Post
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    In Granger's case, this is pretty much a death sentence for his career because simply slowing the degeneration is not enough to allow him, or anyone, to go out and play the game of pro basketball. To do that, he'd actually have to improve significantly, not suffer a slower decline.
    May I ask where you went to school, and what certifications you have? Clearly PS&E needs to hire you and get rid of their medical staff. You could save PS&E a lot of money and frustration. Just go ahead and have him retire now, so his salary is picked up by insurance.

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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    I gotta tell ya, I'm really impressed with the number of doctors and phsyical therapists we have on here. Like serious, it's almost a medical board.


    Talking about this injury, like you know something, is starting to get pretty funny, where I'm sitting. And that's been my complaint this entire time. We're not speculating about the severity of the injury, we have people professing that the injury has already ended his career. You've got to be either the best doctor in the world to make such drastic prognosis without seeing the patient, or a quack.

    You don't get points for being right first, you know.

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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    I didn't see where anyone claimed to be a doctor in here Since, but for those who are really concerned we simply can't ignore (maybe what we only preceive) as red flags.
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    We have posters saying his career is over. How do they know this? I'm reading opinion presented as fact, as opposed to presented as opinion. Is it nitpicky? Probably, but that's the whole crux of the criticism here from my angle.

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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    We have posters saying his career is over. How do they know this? I'm reading opinion presented as fact, as opposed to presented as opinion. Is it nitpicky? Probably, but that's the whole crux of the criticism here from my angle.
    Finding it necessary to initiate every post with "In my opinion," seems like an awful waste of characters.

    Most of us already know it's opinion.

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  35. #149
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    I think we all have to sit back and wait and see what occurs here. However having said that I just think Vnzla81 is not being unreasonable here.

    As has been stated the term "above average" is somewhat vague but it does imply that it goes beyond the expected soreness he was supposed to have.

    So while it is perfectly acceptable to sit and say nobody should be running around going "OMG we be doomed" it is also not unreasonable to go "well crap this isn't going all that well".

    Also using Vnzal81 specifically he is not overreacting due to the fact that this is what he predicted all along, hard to blame him for doubting the knee when he has been saying this was the most likely outcome.


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  37. #150
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    Default Re: Before everyone starts freaking out about Danny not playing in the second half...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Finding it necessary to initiate every post with "In my opinion," seems like an awful waste of characters.

    Most of us already know it's opinion.
    It's not the words used, but that attitude that goes along with with. But IMO fixes that problem.

    EDIT: It's like some can't even entertain the idea of the another outcome.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-06-2013 at 10:12 AM.

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