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Thread: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

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    Default How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    I like many pacer fans am enjoying the teams current success. However, I would like to discuss the outlook for this team long term. Going farther than 5 years is out is probably a bad idea. But basically, how good can this team be and for how long?
    Many here and elsewhere were very critical of the 3 year plan that Larry Legend had in place. It’s the main reason I created a post right after Obrien had been fired with a declaration that Larry Legend would win Executive of the Year (had no idea it would be so soon). Many were down on re-signing Obrien, which I don’t understand since no one worthy of replacing Obrien would have been willing to coach the team the offseason Obrien was extended. I boldly claimed that Legend’s 3 year plan would net this team an average of 50 wins over 5 seasons. At the time many on here thought I had lost my mind.

    Unlike many of the so-called experts who were very critical of Larry Legend here and elsewhere; I on the other hand humbly took a look at the long term and what Larry Legend was building.
    We got lucky to some degree acquiring David “BAMF” West. I don’t think that would have been possible without Legend in the FO.

    2 seasons ago after the firing of Obrien I posted that Legend would win EXEC of the YEAR (complete) and that his 3 year plan would lead to an average of 50 wins over 5 seasons (TBD).
    Regardless of the EXEC of the YEAR Award which I bet Legend doesn’t really care two hoots about. Can this team win 50 games on average for the next 5 seasons? Many on here (would have to pull post) said I had lost my mind. And that it was nearly impossible for a team to complete such a difficult task. In fact, very few teams ever achieve this mark. The Spurs I believe are one, and I know the 94-03 Indiana Pacers as well averaged 50 wins for over 5+ seasons.

    Can this current Pacers team do the same.? And if so, how long can this team compete. PACERNATION I do not believe this team has peaked. I know salarly structure etc may become an issue. But the teams’ core intact should give this Franchise the opportunity for an NBA CHAMPIONSHIP.
    With that said: How long can this team compete for a Title.

    I believe these players are apart of the core and going nowhere:

    George Hill
    Paul George
    Roy Hibbert
    David West – He will be re-signed
    Iain Mahinmi – reasonable 4 year contract for a backup PF/C

    These players I hope to see become apart of the core:

    Danny Granger – not sure about the knee but it will affect his market value
    Lance Stephenson – we need to re-sign this kid to a deal comparable to George Hill at some point. Not anytime soon, he still has maturity issues but if he continues to improve he is going to become a very good starter in this league.

    These 7 players are the core (* Danny)
    Granted Paul George will get paid but he is also blossoming into a player whose # same day may be retired at the Fieldhouse.

    Key Role players:
    Tyler Hansbrough – I believe every championship caliber team should have a Tyler Hansbrough
    Orlando “Pulp” Johnson – cant help but like this kid, and he looks like a legit player off the bench. Great 2nd round pick.
    Plumlee – who knows.

    Not part of the core:
    Augustin, Greene, Pendergraph (though he is a nice 12th man off the bench).

    Point is:
    I realize Miami is the team favored in the East and will continue to be for some time. However, Paul George and Hibbert still have room to improve. West is well a … BAMF with likely 3-4 very solid seasons still remaining. Hill is solid.

    I have a strong conviction that a new era of Pacers Basketball is about to begin that will potentially rival the dominance of the 94-03 Indiana Pacers.

    I would like to add I believe Frank Vogel is going to become one helluva a coach for this team and is already making his mark in the league.

    The 3 year plan Larry Legend asked fans to be patient with is now in full effect and I believe the end result will be a BANNER hanging from the rafters of the Fieldhouse.

    Not only has Larry Legend given PacerNation a team they can be proud of.. he may indirectly saved this state its NBA Franchise in the process. I truly believe with a solid deep run this postseason Pacer basketball will be back. The fans are already starting to attend more games.

    We have Larry Legend to thank for all of this. Ten years from now when this team has won an NBA Finals and the Fieldhouse is rocking I hope we all can look up to the rafters and right next to the NBA Banner see a banner for Larry Legend who is the only Coach at this time to lead this Franchise to the Finals and the GM who led this team out of the dark ages and possibly even saved the Pacers for the state of Indiana.

    With all that said:

    How good can this team become and for how long? Is this a one year fluke or do you expect the Blue & Gold to compete for a championship for the next 5 seasons?

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    It depends on if we spend our money judiciously or not in the next few off seasons.


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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    My biggest concern about the team is finances and how far Simon is willing to open up his pocketbook to keep this team together. I also think that that will mainly depend on how willing the fanbase is to cough up their money to come see this team play games. I just don't want to end up like the Hawks or the Grizzlies have a pretty solid 3 year window or so have to pay a bunch of money to our players and then eventually have to part with them so that we can stay uner the LT threshold, that to me would be the most depressing outcome for this team in the long run.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    I would hope Lance wouldn't be given $8M/yr.

    I think the Pacers should give Lance an Ian type contract. $4M/yr for the next 4 years.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    I have to know where David West will be playing in 6 months to begin to guess at how we'll do the next few years.

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    Where were you JOBs last year as coach? Didn't have many people on my side supporting Larry back then.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Where were you JOBs last year as coach? Didn't have many people on my side supporting Larry back then.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

    I was immediately on board with Bird in 08 after Walsh left. The JO trade was a great move. I loved the Murphy for DC trade, as well as the drafting of Paul George in 2010. The decision not to fire O'Brien sooner was impossible to defend, but Bird made up for it with the excellent additions of George Hill and David West. Bird's overall body of work from 2008-2012 is nothing short of excellent.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Please show me oh mighty oracle, where you made all these predictions I clearly missed the previous years and while at it how many years this 3 years plan took, Oh yeah all the Plumlee picks are not Larry's, he never made a bad draft in his life.

    Chill out, we have a great team, which half of the posters are already tearing up because Granger is useless anyway, but ok, IF we can somehow pay for all the max-contracts you are perceiving in our future without hitting the luxury tax like the Lakers, or the Knickerbockers than we are set for 5 - 8 years, reality tells us that there is something like the luxury tax and we can't afford all those contracts.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I was immediately on board with Bird in 08 after Walsh left. The JO trade was a great move. I loved the Murphy for DC trade, as well as the drafting of Paul George in 2010. The decision not to fire O'Brien sooner was impossible to defend, but Bird made up for it with the excellent additions of George Hill and David West. Bird's overall body of work from 2008-2012 is nothing short of excellent.
    You trying to tell me Bird started working for this franchise as President of Basketball Operations or better, in 2008 ??
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    We can compete so long as Hill, Granger, Hibbert, George, and West are the starting lineup. And with Granger and West, I'd say 3 to 4 years.

    It would be nice to keep Lance and Ian, but IMO they aren't necessary to compete for a title, so long as we spend the money available for the bench wisely. (Like..not on Green.)

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    You trying to tell me Bird started working for this franchise as President of Basketball Operations or better, in 2008 ??

    Not at all. I'm well aware that he came here in 2003. But that Walsh fellow was also here too, and he was the guy who had been running the team since 1986. I have a hard time believing that Walsh set back quietly while Bird ran everything. Now that's not to say that Bird didn't make key decisions (the draft) or that he didn't make some mistakes. I'm just saying that I still think Walsh had the ultimate authority on most major moves. Peck has mentioned multiple times how Mullin said he only talked to Walsh about the Dun/Murph trade. None of us were there, so most of this is just guessing, but I do know that things clearly began to change in 2008. I think it's pretty accurate to state that Bird's role changed in 2008 when Walsh left. From then on, Bird was the undisputed head honcho. There was no more guessing amongst fans over who had more authority. I don't think it's a coincidence that the moves began to get better in 2008 when Bird assumed complete authority, peaking in that 2010-2012 stretch where we added PG, Lance, DC, George Hill, and David West.

    I divide Bird's tenure here into two chapters. There was the 03-08 stretch when he was here with Walsh. That was obviously a rough five years. Then there was the 08-12 stretch after Walsh left. Those years were filled with excellent moves that built an awesome foundation for our club. Overall, Larry gets a great grade.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 02-26-2013 at 04:23 PM.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    Please show me oh mighty oracle, where you made all these predictions I clearly missed the previous years and while at it how many years this 3 years plan took, Oh yeah all the Plumlee picks are not Larry's, he never made a bad draft in his life.

    Chill out, we have a great team, which half of the posters are already tearing up because Granger is useless anyway, but ok, IF we can somehow pay for all the max-contracts you are perceiving in our future without hitting the luxury tax like the Lakers, or the Knickerbockers than we are set for 5 - 8 years, reality tells us that there is something like the luxury tax and we can't afford all those contracts.

    This is a good point. The paradox of the NBA is that you can become a victim of your own success. You can make too many good moves that leave you in a position where you are unable to keep all of the solid players that you have assembled.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Where were you JOBs last year as coach? Didn't have many people on my side supporting Larry back then.

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    who is it you are addressing. cause i got the post that can show you specifically where i was after the obrien firing. i claimed then Legend would win EXEC and lead this team to 50 for 5. so far so good.

    how you like Legend now all you Bird critics.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I would hope Lance wouldn't be given $8M/yr.

    I think the Pacers should give Lance an Ian type contract. $4M/yr for the next 4 years.
    I guarantee you that some Team will "Lin-Asik" ( I'm trademarking that term ) the Pacers when it comes to making a contract offer to Lance since he's in ( as far as I know ) the same Free Agent situation as Lin and Asik were ( 2nd round Players that are set to make a splash when they becomes UFAs ).

    We will be lucky to get Lance at $4 mil a year.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I guarantee you that some Team will "Lin-Asik" ( I'm trademarking that term ) the Pacers when it comes to making a contract offer to Lance since he's in ( as far as I know ) the same Free Agent situation as Lin and Asik were ( 2nd round Players that are set to make a splash when they becomes UFAs ).

    We will be lucky to get Lance at $4 mil a year.
    This. Lance at $4 mil/years is wishful thinking. To me, Lance is potentially more valuable long-term than George Hill.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    Please show me oh mighty oracle, where you made all these predictions I clearly missed the previous years and while at it how many years this 3 years plan took, Oh yeah all the Plumlee picks are not Larry's, he never made a bad draft in his life.
    Dont get arrogant with me. Show me where I claimed Larry did not make a mistake or two in the draft. Overall i would give Legend a solid B+ to A- in drafts. Get off your high horse when talking Legend and Pacers to me. Lets just focus on the facts. You can start with the thread below since you asked.

    here you go:

    make sure you look at the date of the original post.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...the-Year-Award

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    I have to know where David West will be playing in 6 months to begin to guess at how we'll do the next few years.
    BAMF will be re-signed. I have no doubts the FO will make that happen if they want to even sniff the playoffs and have a sellout from time to time.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Gill View Post
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    This. Lance at $4 mil/years is wishful thinking. To me, Lance is potentially more valuable long-term than George Hill.
    It comes down to how they are producing. Hill is putting up 15 and 5 (and he was putting up those numbers when he won the starting pg role last season to earn him that big payday). Lance is avg 8 and 3 (10 and 2 for the past 5 games). How does that equate making as much as Hill? Lance has been great, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

    I do think Lance will take a leap forward next year. That's why it would be important to extend him this offseason if possible.
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    BAMF will be re-signed. I have no doubts the FO will make that happen if they want to even sniff the playoffs and have a sellout from time to time.

    March 2011, great prediction; 37 in 2011 and 35 in 2012 means you are 28 behind the 8ball and only 3 left.
    You forget to mention your predicted frontline of Hibbert/Hans as solid and McRob as backup, Danger traded and Dunleavy re-signed, Rush kept and no word about Lance, do you really want me to dissect the rest?

    Arrogance is your post saying you knew it all years ago whilst only one of your guesses so far materialized not me pointing out the flaws in your reasoning.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Gill View Post
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    This. Lance at $4 mil/years is wishful thinking. To me, Lance is potentially more valuable long-term than George Hill.
    I think that's stretching it...I think that he will be "as valuable" as Hill is to the core....but not more valuable than Hill.
    Last edited by CableKC; 02-26-2013 at 05:15 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    Please show me oh mighty oracle, where you made all these predictions I clearly missed the previous years and while at it how many years this 3 years plan took, Oh yeah all the Plumlee picks are not Larry's, he never made a bad draft in his life.

    Chill out, we have a great team, which half of the posters are already tearing up because Granger is useless anyway, but ok, IF we can somehow pay for all the max-contracts you are perceiving in our future without hitting the luxury tax like the Lakers, or the Knickerbockers than we are set for 5 - 8 years, reality tells us that there is something like the luxury tax and we can't afford all those contracts.
    Talk about Chill Out, dude you sound like oleblu with you negative post.
    Good is the enemy of Great


    We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
    -- Frank Vogel.

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Depends if DW can refrain from screwing things up.

    If he does what he did in the 90's and early 2000, then we will be in good hands and I'd say as far as Paul, Roy, George and the rest can take us.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Cool Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by colts19 View Post
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    Talk about Chill Out, dude you sound like oleblu with you negative post.
    Hey, that is quite a compliment. Thank you......

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    Cool Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I think that's stretching it...I think that he will be "as valuable" as Hill is to the core....but not more valuable than Hill.
    What Lance has going for him is a ton of upside. He is still getting better and he will keep doing that for a while. Lance might be a "star" something the Pacers do not have. Hill will be what he is, a very good player........

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    Default Re: How long will Legends 3 Year Plan allow this team to compete for a Title

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    Where were you JOBs last year as coach? Didn't have many people on my side supporting Larry back then.

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
    check the post in response to Abel. thank you for this statement. all of a sudden everyone on PD is a believer in the 3 year plan these days.

    how anyone could doubt a LEGEND is beyond my realm of expertise.

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