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Thread: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

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    Remember #31 dohman's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Granger is going to be the odd man out. There is no way to field a bench unless the pacers only want to run 7. There are going to be huge gaps in the lineup here in the future if we try to pay everyone. Granger is the type of player youmwantin your lineup, the problem is we have proved we can be this good without him with a very young team thatis only going to get better. If lances game continues I believe heirs the one pacers are going to lock up due to his abilities on defense and how he can distribute the ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Good point, we could do that.

    Lets also let PG go, and trade Hill. We will have a great cap situation then!
    Yes. That is exactly what I meant.
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  3. #28
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    In the Bynum one, first sentence, they mis-spelled "least"

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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    Does anyone think having so many good players that can play the PF position being in this free agency pool might help bring the prices down a bit? I mean you have West, Jefferson, Milsap, Smith, even Landry that can all play the position at a high level. Supply is high, so maybe that could help?
    Assuming that Granger is not moved be fore the 2013-2014 trade deadline.....are the Pacers able to go over the SalaryCap to sign West to a $10-12 mil / 3-4 year contract offer?

    What advantages do the Pacers have that others won't when it comes to re-signing West?
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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Assuming that Granger is not moved be fore the 2013-2014 trade deadline.....are the Pacers able to go over the SalaryCap to sign West to a $10-12 mil / 3-4 year contract offer?

    What advantages do the Pacers have that others won't when it comes to re-signing West?

    I already posted on this in another thread but I only see West going to a playoff team and really there are only a few options there.

    You got maybe the Hawks but that still puts Al Horford at the Center postion. The Mavs don't make sense since they would have to play West at center. The Rockets could go after him but they are loaded with pfs now.

    Really those are the only future playoff teams I see him having a shot at but even those are a risky moves. THe max I would offer is 12 million for 3 years but hopefully its another 2 year deal.

  6. #31

    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I think we can keep West, Granger and still give PG the max. I'd rather lose Lance then any of the others. I know he's developed into a good combo guard but he'll never be on the level of the other 3 and combo guards can be replaced much easier then a play like Granger can.
    The thing is, when Lance is 26 and in his prime Danny will be retired. Danny is almost 30 with a bum knee and Lance is 22...

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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I already posted on this in another thread but I only see West going to a playoff team and really there are only a few options there.

    You got maybe the Hawks but that still puts Al Horford at the Center postion. The Mavs don't make sense since they would have to play West at center. The Rockets could go after him but they are loaded with pfs now.

    Really those are the only future playoff teams I see him having a shot at but even those are a risky moves. THe max I would offer is 12 million for 3 years but hopefully its another 2 year deal.
    I didn't see your other post....but your response doesn't really answer my question.

    Are the Pacers able to go over the Salary Cap and Luxury Tax to sign West?

    Because he's a UFA, can the last Team that he signed with sign him to a longer contract?

    What advantages ( if any ) does the Pacers have that may allow him to sign with them ( over other Teams )?

    I know that he can leave for any Team that he chooses....but the question is whether the Pacers have any built-in Advantages to re-signing him.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  9. #33
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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    My question is, what and how many teams are there that can go after West?
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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Yeah, I'd go as high as three years 36 million. We could always replace West with someone else, but I think what we can't replace are the leadership, toughness, and intangibles he brings.

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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Skull View Post
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    My question is, what and how many teams are there that can go after West?

    I kind of brought that up earlier. A lot of doom and gloom out there from the fan base thinking that West is going to be offered some 15+ mil contract from another team with no real idea as to who is going to do this. I could understand someone offering Hibbert the max. A young center coming off his first all star game with what should be his best ball ahead of him and he was the best big man available that summer.
    West is in a different situation he's the oldest of 5 very good big men free agents this summer and due to that he's most likely going to be the 5th. choice and I'd even say Bynum will most likely be higher on the list for most teams then West only because he's younger and a center which would put West as the 6th. most desirable big man on the market next summer. At the very least I don't think any team is going to be on his doorstep at midnight with a huge offer that the Pacers can't afford to match.

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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    The thing is, when Lance is 26 and in his prime Danny will be retired. Danny is almost 30 with a bum knee and Lance is 22...
    I really doubt if Granger retires at 33-34 years old. I really like Lance but he's a combo guard averaging 8 ppg as a starter. His best ball is ahead of him but I don't see him ever reaching the level of Granger and it's a lot easier to replace what Lance does then it is to replace what Granger does. If Lance really develops and Granger returns to form then someone has to be the odd man out. I think we just need to let this play out until the trade deadline next season. If Granger returns to form then we trade Lance, if not then Granger won't be getting the money and we should be able to afford both players.

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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    His best ball is ahead of him but I don't see him ever reaching the level of Granger and it's a lot easier to replace what Lance does then it is to replace what Granger does.
    Lance is the one who is hard to replace while Danny is kind of replacable. Granger is a great 3 point shooter, can shoot off the dribble a bit and plays average defense. No offense to Danny but there are cheaper players who can shoot. Granger has been a high scorer over the years because he was the #1 option for a while and given the opportunity to take that many shots. Put Lance in that role and see how much he can score. At this point, we don't need another player in the starting lineup to take that many shots. Danny taking 10 shots a game and PG taking 12 doesn't make us better than PG taking 15 and Lance taking 7. Lance has many intangibles to his game with his bball iq, passing, and ability to run the fast break. He makes his teammates better with his abilities and that shows in stats. He also is a very talented scorer already and the only reason he averages 8 ppg is because he understands his role right now in this lineup.
    Last edited by vincognito; 03-03-2013 at 11:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vincognito View Post
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    Lance is the one who is hard to replace while Danny is kind of replacable. Granger is a great 3 point shooter, can shoot off the dribble a bit and plays average defense. No offense to Danny but there are cheaper players who can shoot. Granger has been a high scorer over the years because he was the #1 option for a while and given the opportunity to take that many shots. Put Lance in that role and see how much he can score. At this point, we don't need another player in the starting lineup to take that many shots. Danny taking 10 shots a game and PG taking 12 doesn't make us better than PG taking 15 and Lance taking 7. Lance has many intangibles to his game with his bball iq, passing, and ability to run the fast break. He makes his teammates better with his abilities and that shows in stats. He also is a very talented scorer already and the only reason he averages 8 ppg is because he understands his role right now in this lineup.
    Most of Danny's shots aren't going to come from Lance or PG but a few will, however Danny taking those shots will add 8-10 ppg to our total score most nights while he also adds a defensive element that Lance can't. We'll just have to disagree on the replacement part. Finding a 3/4 that can score 20 and defend is a lot harder then finding a combo guard which is what Lance is. Not to take away from him but I doubt if Lance ever avarges 18-20 ppg in his career at least not a good team. I am very happy in the way Lance has developed and well aware of what he does other then score, that still doesn't come close to giving what Danny does. I hope we can keep both but if I have to pick my poison it would be in trading Lance not Danny.

  16. #39

    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Most of Danny's shots aren't going to come from Lance or PG but a few will, however Danny taking those shots will add 8-10 ppg to our total score most nights while he also adds a defensive element that Lance can't. We'll just have to disagree on the replacement part. Finding a 3/4 that can score 20 and defend is a lot harder then finding a combo guard which is what Lance is. Not to take away from him but I doubt if Lance ever avarges 18-20 ppg in his career at least not a good team. I am very happy in the way Lance has developed and well aware of what he does other then score, that still doesn't come close to giving what Danny does. I hope we can keep both but if I have to pick my poison it would be in trading Lance not Danny.
    I agree he would help our offense if he is taking shots away from our bench players but if he's in the starting lineup he will be taking shots away from the other starters.

    Not all combo guards are the same. Some are jerryd bayless and some are russell westbrook. I wouldn't call lance a combo guard anyway i think he's a big pg who is being played at sg.
    Last edited by vincognito; 03-03-2013 at 11:41 AM.

  17. #40

    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    If we lose DWest, this Pacers team will struggle to score at times. If we only had to pay Roy 10 mil a year, I would give West a max contract. Dude is the heart and sould of this team, he is the emotional leader, he has so much left in the tank and I feel he could start and keep contributing the same numbers he has this and last year for the next four years. No way we give him max but if he isnt retained by this Pacers team, I see it as a HUGE setback

  18. #41

    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    Does anyone think having so many good players that can play the PF position being in this free agency pool might help bring the prices down a bit? I mean you have West, Jefferson, Milsap, Smith, even Landry that can all play the position at a high level. Supply is high, so maybe that could help?

    It will plus DWest age will be a factor as well. To me, if Dwest wants as long contract it means less salary.

    If the contract is front loaded, you might get him at an acceptable salary at a reasonable amount of years.

  19. #42

    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    To me, you keep Dwest, and trade Granger. PG fills the SF/wing position that Granger plays while the Pacers have no one to replace DWest at PF or his leadership ability. If Dwest isn't re-signed, the Pacers will be looking for both a starting and b/u PF for next season. You sign re-sign Dwest to a reasonable salary and for a reasonable amount of years... nothing overboard on either.

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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by vincognito View Post
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    Lance is the one who is hard to replace while Danny is kind of replacable. Granger is a great 3 point shooter, can shoot off the dribble a bit and plays average defense. No offense to Danny but there are cheaper players who can shoot. Granger has been a high scorer over the years because he was the #1 option for a while and given the opportunity to take that many shots. Put Lance in that role and see how much he can score. At this point, we don't need another player in the starting lineup to take that many shots. Danny taking 10 shots a game and PG taking 12 doesn't make us better than PG taking 15 and Lance taking 7. Lance has many intangibles to his game with his bball iq, passing, and ability to run the fast break. He makes his teammates better with his abilities and that shows in stats. He also is a very talented scorer already and the only reason he averages 8 ppg is because he understands his role right now in this lineup.
    So according to your theory if you give Lance the number of shots Durant takes, he's going to be a top 5 scorer?
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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by vincognito View Post
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    Lance is the one who is hard to replace while Danny is kind of replacable. Granger is a great 3 point shooter, can shoot off the dribble a bit and plays average defense. No offense to Danny but there are cheaper players who can shoot. Granger has been a high scorer over the years because he was the #1 option for a while and given the opportunity to take that many shots. Put Lance in that role and see how much he can score. At this point, we don't need another player in the starting lineup to take that many shots. Danny taking 10 shots a game and PG taking 12 doesn't make us better than PG taking 15 and Lance taking 7. Lance has many intangibles to his game with his bball iq, passing, and ability to run the fast break. He makes his teammates better with his abilities and that shows in stats. He also is a very talented scorer already and the only reason he averages 8 ppg is because he understands his role right now in this lineup.
    Have to think this is a very "sunny" picture of Lance Stephenson. Not saying some of it isn't true, but let's not act like Lance can do no wrong with the basketball. His jumpshot is still fairly hit or miss, and he still has a tendency to play out of control at times. Even with Granger's past shot attempts, I'm not sure he's suddenly an efficient 20+ ppg scorer if he'd be at all.

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  24. #45
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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    Does anyone think having so many good players that can play the PF position being in this free agency pool might help bring the prices down a bit? I mean you have West, Jefferson, Milsap, Smith, even Landry that can all play the position at a high level. Supply is high, so maybe that could help?
    After watching West abuse Landry, I would leave Carl off the list. I think Jefferson, Smith and possibly Millsap are at a higher level.

    I hope we get him to sign for about 12M/yr...or if he needs more a shorter 2 year contract again. By the time a 4 year contract ends, he will be well into his decline.

  25. #46

    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    So according to your theory if you give Lance the number of shots Durant takes, he's going to be a top 5 scorer?
    I think the number of shots you can take is based on your role on the team and your ability to get your type of shot. If you are a number one option but you are slow and all you can do is dunk, you won't get many good chances, and won't score many points even if you chuck up 20 shots. A player like durant can get his shot at will because of his handling, athleticism, iq, and shooting ability. Durant also gets to the free throw line a lot which is the main reason why he is a top 5 scorer. He is only taking 18 shots a game. Lance can create shots off the dribble, drive, now he can spot up shoot, and he can get good looks for himself on fast breaks. He doesn't get to the free throw line at all right now but I would expect he would if he was handling and driving a lot more. I don't think lance would be able to get as many good looks or free throws as durant so i don't think he would do well in that role. I do think he has the ability to be a number 1 or 2 option, taking at least 14/15 shots. Also i don't mean that he needs to be taking that many shots, just that he could. I prefer him being a facilitator and using his abilities.
    Last edited by vincognito; 03-03-2013 at 12:38 PM.

  26. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Have to think this is a very "sunny" picture of Lance Stephenson. Not saying some of it isn't true, but let's not act like Lance can do no wrong with the basketball. His jumpshot is still fairly hit or miss, and he still has a tendency to play out of control at times. Even with Granger's past shot attempts, I'm not sure he's suddenly an efficient 20+ ppg scorer if he'd be at all.
    I agree he's not there yet but he's on his way at 22 years old.

  27. #48
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    I've thought about this a lot over the last week or so, and Danny's unlikely be a Pacer much longer. I've always liked the guy, but Paul and Lance moved into the starting lineup and made him a cap causality. It's pretty simple.

    Hibbert: max. ($13-15 mil)
    Paul George: inevitable max. ($13-15 mil)
    D-West: ~10 mil
    George Hill: $8 mil

    four guys, ~$46 mil

    Gerald Green ($3.5 mil - 2 more years...sigh)
    Ian M. - ($4 mil)

    total: $7.5

    Committed to six players:
    $53.5 mil

    Luxury tax threshold: ~$70 mil

    So there's basically one more decent-sized chunk we could give someone, and then fill out the bench. I believe that someone will be Lance, but one thing is for sure: Granger and Lance can't coexist for much longer.

    It should be noted that all of this could change if we don't bring back D-West, but I don't think there's anyone that doesn't want to bring back D-West.

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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by vincognito View Post
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    I think the number of shots you can take is based on your role on the team and your ability to get your type of shot. If you are a number one option but you are slow and all you can do is dunk, you won't get many good chances. A player like durant can get his shot at will because of his handling, athleticism, iq, and shooting ability. Durant also gets to the free throw line a lot which is a big reason why he can score so much. Lance can create shots off the dribble, drive, now he can spot up shoot, and he can get good looks for himself on fast breaks. He doesn't get to the free throw line at all right now but I would expect he would if he was handling and driving a lot more. I don't think lance would be able to get as many good looks as durant and wouldn't have a great percentage or as high point totals if he tried. I doubt lance can get 20 quality shots a game and get 10 free throws but he has the ability to be a number 1 or 2 option, taking at least 14/15 shots. Also i don't mean that he needs to be taking that many shots, just that he could. I prefer him being a facilitator and using his abilities.
    There's a very good reason why only about 10 players in the league average 20+ ppg. That reason is talent. If you're a talented scorer, then you're going to get many shot opportunities. Lance is not a talented scorer. His range isn't all that great, he hasn't shown to be a superb slasher, finisher or a guy who gets to the line. Granger on the other hand always had great range, developed a decent post game and managed to get to the line consistently, and that's the reason he was able to score so many points.
    This really reminds me of the start of the season when people predicted Gerald Green would score 18 ppg on 45% from the field. The fact a rotation player has good sample size scoring doesn't mean that if you expand that sample he's going to be a good scorer. If this were the case, every team in the league would have some "hidden superstar" on the bench just waiting to get 18 FGA and lead the league in scoring.
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    Default Re: NBA PM: Ranking the 2013 Free Agents

    Quote Originally Posted by yoadknux View Post
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    There's a very good reason why only about 10 players in the league average 20+ ppg. That reason is talent. If you're a talented scorer, then you're going to get many shot opportunities. Lance is not a talented scorer. His range isn't all that great, he hasn't shown to be a superb slasher, finisher or a guy who gets to the line. Granger on the other hand always had great range, developed a decent post game and managed to get to the line consistently, and that's the reason he was able to score so many points.
    This really reminds me of the start of the season when people predicted Gerald Green would score 18 ppg on 45% from the field. The fact a rotation player has good sample size scoring doesn't mean that if you expand that sample he's going to be a good scorer. If this were the case, every team in the league would have some "hidden superstar" on the bench just waiting to get 18 FGA and lead the league in scoring.
    Fair point but lance does have a lot more talent than gerald green. I'm not basing it on his stats, i believe in his actual talent to be a scorer. I've seen a player that can get to the rim very well from his dribble drives, finish in traffic, he is a threat from 3, and he is great in the open court. I think you are underrating him a bit.

    Also I never was trying to suggest that he should be taking more shots, his role is perfect for this team
    Last edited by vincognito; 03-03-2013 at 01:06 PM.

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