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Thread: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    time dulls our memories.
    Let's focus on this, because I disagree a little bit. I think Jordan has been romanticized to a certain extent. The Legend of Jordan has continued to grow over the years, to the point where an entire week was spent talking about his 50th birthday and all of his questionable character flaws are now twisted into the overall narrative of what made him so great. I'm not saying there's no reason for this, because there is, but I don't really think Jordan's accomplishments have been forgotten. I also don't think people are ready to annoint the "next Jordan" so much as he is the golden standard for what basketball players strive to be. He's the best, so great players will naturally be compared to the best. It's inevitable.

    Whereas you look at LeBron, and we have a tendency to focus on the negative with him a little more because he's not entirely likeable and because he has made some puzzling PR moves. But as a basketball player, what he's done on the court the past few seasons has been incredible. He can legitimatelly shut down four positions on the court defensively (for as great as MJ was, he didn't have physical gifts that LeBron has), and guard the fifth position respectably. Does he have the will to be great and make others great and just win, win, win like Jordan had? It doesn't look like it. But even as great as Kobe was, I never felt he could reach Jordan's level. At least with LeBron, I think it's possible. We haven't seen anyone dominate the NBA like LeBron is this season (and last season, really) since Shaq's FU seasons when he actually gave a **** about what kind of shape he was in.

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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Unpopular opinion alert: LeBron will retire as the greatest basketball player who ever lived. I'm including you, Miguel Jordan.
    Don't know if that's true or not, but I do know watching Lebron live at the BLF last year in the playoffs was truly impressive. Saw Jordan live in the playoffs a long time ago, so it's hard to remember, but my impression is more of being annoyed by him because he got crap calls than awed by him, and that Toni Kukoc played a better game. With Lebron, he just seemed like the best player on the court.
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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    cdash brought up a good point. Jordan might be the best player ever, Lebron might be close, but Shaq in his prime is the most dominating player I've ever seen. Not nearly the most talented, but when he was fit no one could even come close to his shear size and strength.
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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Let's focus on this, because I disagree a little bit. I think Jordan has been romanticized to a certain extent. The Legend of Jordan has continued to grow over the years, to the point where an entire week was spent talking about his 50th birthday and all of his questionable character flaws are now twisted into the overall narrative of what made him so great. I'm not saying there's no reason for this, because there is, but I don't really think Jordan's accomplishments have been forgotten. I also don't think people are ready to annoint the "next Jordan" so much as he is the golden standard for what basketball players strive to be. He's the best, so great players will naturally be compared to the best. It's inevitable.

    Whereas you look at LeBron, and we have a tendency to focus on the negative with him a little more because he's not entirely likeable and because he has made some puzzling PR moves. But as a basketball player, what he's done on the court the past few seasons has been incredible. He can legitimatelly shut down four positions on the court defensively (for as great as MJ was, he didn't have physical gifts that LeBron has), and guard the fifth position respectably. Does he have the will to be great and make others great and just win, win, win like Jordan had? It doesn't look like it. But even as great as Kobe was, I never felt he could reach Jordan's level. At least with LeBron, I think it's possible. We haven't seen anyone dominate the NBA like LeBron is this season (and last season, really) since Shaq's FU seasons when he actually gave a **** about what kind of shape he was in.

    I agree with that. Depends more where your starting point is in the discussion. I think this probably deals more with people on the ends of the spetrum.

    I like LeBron, the player. What he does is jaw dropping. I think I've seen two triple doubles by him, and I didn't even think he played that well the first time. Once you're up as high as him and MJ, the world probably looks like the point of a pen.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-01-2013 at 04:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogco View Post
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    cdash brought up a good point. Jordan might be the best player ever, Lebron might be close, but Shaq in his prime is the most dominating player I've ever seen. Not nearly the most talented, but when he was fit no one could even come close to his shear size and strength.
    They changed the rules of the game for Shaq. Since this is a Simmons article I will go back to something he says: Chris Webber was always one of the woulda/coulda/shoulda guys in NBA history. I think it was Shaq. If he had taken care of his body longer he could have absolutely dominated the NBA for much longer than he did. I remember watching that 1999-2000 Lakers team and thinking there was no way anyone was beating them if they played well. Shaq dominated, and when he didn't, he would swing it out to Kobe who would do the rest. I'm amazed we took them to 6 games in the Finals, honestly.

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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    They changed the rules of the game for Shaq. Since this is a Simmons article I will go back to something he says: Chris Webber was always one of the woulda/coulda/shoulda guys in NBA history. I think it was Shaq. If he had taken care of his body longer he could have absolutely dominated the NBA for much longer than he did. I remember watching that 1999-2000 Lakers team and thinking there was no way anyone was beating them if they played well. Shaq dominated, and when he didn't, he would swing it out to Kobe who would do the rest. I'm amazed we took them to 6 games in the Finals, honestly.
    And we were this close >< to tying the series up in game 4. It took a Jordan-esque (as long as we're comparing people to Jordan) performance from a young Mamba to seal that game in OT while Shaq was fouled out on the bench.

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    Cool Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Nice find

    We need to keep it quiet so it doenst inflate his price
    Too late for that. The other teams have seen him play...... ...

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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Jordan wasn't always talked about with extreme reverence. Playoff exits at the hands of the Pistons & Celtics brought questions. Like Lebron he didn't win his first championship until age 28 either.

    Given the lack of talent on those Cavs teams Lebron has a pretty good resume compared to Jordan at this stage of his career. Ultimately I don't think he will get that level of winning but it is not impossible. Especially with the star "buddy system" that is developing in todays game.

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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Why is it that when we discuss who the best player ever is nobody ever brings up Harold Miner?

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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Quote Originally Posted by kielbeze View Post
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    Why is it that when we discuss who the best player ever is nobody ever brings up Harold Miner?


    When I was typing out one of my responses above, I actually did reference that I wasn't exactly talking about a Harold Miner-type here. One of the all-time greats, for sure.

  13. #36

    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Lebron is a better player than Jordan. No question to me. But Jordan will always be the bigger legend with a better career. No one will ever get out from Jordan's shadow.
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

  14. #37
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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Sidenote Lebron discussion: Where does he go to win more rings after he leaves Miami? Whether it's soon or whether it's later, does anyone really think Lebron is gonna retire with the Heat? He has min. seven years left, probably more. Hate to say it as a Pacer fan, but it's not that hard to imagine Lebron ending up with 5-7 rings total. Especially if he plays till he's 38, 39, which seems possible since he's a freak of nature and all.

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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    If I got first pick I'll go with a prime Jordon over LBJ.

    Jordon had a great game!
    Might be an even closer call between Him and Oscar who outscored, out rebounded, and out assited him, more often than not.

    And I'm not so sure either would be my first pick in a league.

    Big guys dominate a game where iron hangs high.

    Bill Russel would be an excellent first pick. As would Wilt of course... Shaq and Jabar may also be a better first pick.

    After that I'm thinkin Jordon or Olajuan.

    Because there is a pretty big drop off between the centers that are left and I'd roll with Wilt and Kobe or Russel and Bird over Jordon and what ever center you may get at number 12. Jordon and Walton?

    Great but Not quite.

    It's a team game so I take my selections in that context.

    Get your BIG first!

    Wow just posted and looked at thread name. Did I get lost or what?
    Last edited by solid; 03-01-2013 at 11:29 PM.

  16. #39

    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Let's get this thread back on track



    Lance has been such a beast this season. I'm glad he's had a chance to break out and hopefully he teams with PG to become the deadliest wing tandem in the NBA for the next decade!

    PS...make sure you watch that vid in HD.

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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    It's nice to see Lance getting some props lately. It seems like it started with that great Arnowitz article about the Pacers' starting unit.

    That said, Simmons by definition skips most 1st rounders, expirings and guys with good extensions, so it's a weird ranking.. Not sure i understand its purpose.

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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons


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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    I don't think we are even close to seeing what Lance can do. There are times when he just looks like the best player on the floor. These are still few and far between. Don't remember the exact game, but he had several great passes and scores over about 6 minute time frame and then was T'ed up for a flagrant 1. That seemed to disrupt the flow he was in. These moments are now starting to happen more often. I think Lance will be an All-Star someday but that's a couple years away. Lance has great basketball smarts.
    Last edited by aceace; 03-02-2013 at 01:51 PM. Reason: add
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
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    Default Re: Best Bargains in the NBA by Bill Simmons

    Lance could be the "X" factor for the Pacers in the playoffs. Especially if he can play effeciently against other teams second units on the road.

    I also firmly believe that his scruffy mohawk and intense scowl makes him a shoe in for a role in any Mad Max/Road Warrior remake.

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