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Thread: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    If he doesn't get any better or healthier I don't see that happening, maybe something like what Suckleavy got I think.
    2 yrs 7.5 mil--TOTAL??

    Yea he'll get that if he doesn't get ANY better than what he is RIGHT now lol. Jeez.

    I honestly think with the recent trend of 2nd nd 3rd tier players getting paid less and less (Felton, Crawford, Mayo, etc) I think Danny can expect between 6.5 and 8 mil per--from a winning team. And 8 Mil would come from a younger team that needs that Vet

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    You can expect Danny to at least get a deal comparable to West's IMO. 2/20
    I'm not as sure of that, personally. I think his perceived value could be closer to George Hill now than back when he got this current deal (where he was young, healthy, and seen as the main piece of the team, not just A piece of the team).

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I remember when people thought the same thing about Roy.
    Roy also has no injury history, has much rarer size and a more in demand skill set, and had never signed a big contract before. I don't think Danny would come back cheap, but they are entirely different case studies.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I have said something for several months now. And to an extent, this article supports my belief. It emphasizes comradery of the WHOLE team. And, this is something very rare in all of sports, perhaps unique in the NBA, wher the almighty dollar has ruled the roost.

    So, is it hard to believe that both West and Granger recognize this and have a great appreciation of how rare it is? Rather than risk losing that with another team, would any of you now believe that West and Granger would be willing to sacrifice a little on thei next contracts to maintain the core of the team they currently have?

    put me on record as saying that the team and the players will find a way to make it work.
    I can imagine it, but consider what usually happens, and then really dwell on the fact that it will be the AGENTS of these players, not the players themselves, working on the new deals, and that fantasy fades away pretty quick.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    he couldn't have signed the combination that would have that much pay THIS year
    I'm not sure that's technically right. I think if the first thing we did was spend cap space on an outsider free agent, we could still then have re-signed Roy and George to their respective deals as well. I haven't done the math, but I vaguely recall at the time that it was theoretically possible to hit the tax last year (if it made any kind of sense and the team really wanted it done). Probably would have meant signing a max contract free agent before re-signing our bird right players. Unlikely, but I thought theoretically possible.

  9. #106
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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...ies/pacers.jsp

    These are the numbers that show how much money has already been committed for the Pacers. These are factual. I already stated why I think these numbers make trading Granger a possibility. That doesn't mean that there is 100% chance he will be. That means, it could happen. That is not irrational.

    Those numbers are factual, and certainly more so than anything in that article. Why you are using this article to make any kind of claim that it is factual evidence that any thoughts of him possibly being traded are irrational, is beyond me.

    This is all really weird.
    Again...i was on here months ago talking about the numbers problem....there are few that have a better understanding of the cap and things related to it than myself...and i was saying the pacers are gonna have some very difficult decisions...i know the numbers situation....thats not the issue here. The issue is that you..or more to the point, TJ seems to think that Danny is the odd man out. And TJ just goes on and on about how he will be traded this off season. And there is zero basis for such. zero. Danny is one of the three most important guys on this team. Hes not going anywhere unless this thing is blown up. Period. West, Granger and George are your true core. Others are very valuable, but are all pretty much replaceable to different extents. When one of those three can no longer be kept, then the team goes in a different direction. Not unlike what happened to the 2000 team. This team is on the way up....its just beginning to contend for a title. They simply wont then go and get rid of the very heart of the team. Thats just crazy and irrationall to think such. Let alone to do so even way before the issue even arises. The Pacers financial concerns dont really kick in til the end of Grangers contract. I mean geez.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Conversations like this are why I hate being an adult. I had no concept of NBA finances as a kid and well, that was just fine.

    Enjoy this year and see what happens. We have the entire offseason to talk about this ****. On the other hand, I will probably keep talking about it.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    Assuming we want to retain George, West, and Stephenson, I don't see how we have enough money for Danny. That said, I think it is highly unlikely we trade him next year. The Pacers are at a huge advantage in that his contract expires the same year PG is up for his first big contract. There would be very few if any contracts we could take back that would provide us with that kind of long-term financial flexibility AND production like Danny's does. Not retaining Danny is very, very possible, but the Pacers would be shooting themselves in the foot by trading him under almost all scenarios this offseason.

    Don't obsess over ""we get nothing of value if we let Danny go for nothing." The value is you have more flexibility to sign Paul George (and hopefully Lance) long-term deals. If we trade Danny for some high-priced player with 3 years left on a similar contract I will be worried about this team's basic business sense.
    The reason to trade Danny Granger this summer, is that may be the only possible way to retain David West, and stay under the LT line.

    If you can keep West without trading him, you do that. I'm just not certain that it isn't going to take a huge deal to keep West, which I think is more important than keeping Granger.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    Assuming we want to retain George, West, and Stephenson, I don't see how we have enough money for Danny. That said, I think it is highly unlikely we trade him next year. The Pacers are at a huge advantage in that his contract expires the same year PG is up for his first big contract. There would be very few if any contracts we could take back that would provide us with that kind of long-term financial flexibility AND production like Danny's does. Not retaining Danny is very, very possible, but the Pacers would be shooting themselves in the foot by trading him under almost all scenarios this offseason.

    Don't obsess over ""we get nothing of value if we let Danny go for nothing." The value is you have more flexibility to sign Paul George (and hopefully Lance) long-term deals. If we trade Danny for some high-priced player with 3 years left on a similar contract I will be worried about this team's basic business sense.
    Yeah. That's kind of what I expect to happen as well. Keep him for another chance at competing with this roster next season, then either his deal expires or we trade him for peanuts to get some value before he's completely gone. Or wait and see if he's cheaper than expected in free agency. It very well could be the latter.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    2 yrs 7.5 mil--TOTAL??

    Yea he'll get that if he doesn't get ANY better than what he is RIGHT now lol. Jeez.

    I honestly think with the recent trend of 2nd nd 3rd tier players getting paid less and less (Felton, Crawford, Mayo, etc) I think Danny can expect between 6.5 and 8 mil per--from a winning team. And 8 Mil would come from a younger team that needs that Vet
    I thought Suckleavy was making more my bad, I'm thinking that Danny is going to get like 5/6mil a year max for his next contract at 31 years of age and with bad kness, maybe less.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Ah...so you cant come up with any facts that might lead one to think its a possibility so you then go to the last resort...attack on a personal level since the facts wont do you any good. Gotcha. Your opinion of my posts combined with a dollar will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds. GEt my drift? Ill just wait til you give me one actual fact that might lead one to beleive Danny might get traded this summer. ONE. With regards to his "innocuous" comment, he has alluded to this same sort of thing numerous times on this board. Again, in spite of there being no facts pointing to such. Its more like an insecurity than anything else. Anything this good has obviously got to come to an end....and sooner rather than later. I mean cmon. Theres a wealth and i do mean wealth of reasons they would never trade Danny this summer. And they are in two camps...The camp that says they will never trade him and will not only not trade him but re-sign him....and the other camp being if you were going to trade him, it wont be this summer. But again, in spite of every fact known to man, he still runs around like a dude going out with a hot chick that is just certain shes gonna break up with him and can talk about nothing but. This article should serve to quell such thoughts....instead he somehow tries to irrationally use it as some sort of evidence to support his ill-conceived notion. Just like the hot chick who calls him up and tells him she wants to take him to dinner....for him to only think shes gonna do so because she wants to break up with him. I mean cmon.
    Dude relax, take a deep breath...

    I actually tend to agree that Danny and the team would strongly prefer to NOT part ways. Danny seems like the rare type of player who might turn down more lucrative offers (within reason) in order to stay with the Pacers (this is not unheard of, Dirk did this with the Mavs in order to win a championship).

    However they way you have been reacting to some of the other posters here is indeed over the top.

    People HAVE presented facts for their side of the argument (namely salary considerations, which are a real issue). The Pacers are not made of money, and attendance is still lagging behind where we all hoped it would be at this point. Simon has refused to go into the luxury tax for a very long time now. We still have to re-sign DWest and plan for keeping PG. Something might have to give. Let's hope it doesn't, but much crazier things have happened.

    Finally it's fine for people to disagree, but that doesn't necessarily make one side "irrational." I agree with the other poster that you might not be using that word correctly... Not trying to attack you, just pointing out that you're not doing yourself any favors with how you are presenting your argument... JMHO

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I thought Suckleavy was making more my bad, I'm thinking that Danny is going to get like 5/6mil a year max for his next contract at 31 years of age and with bad kness, maybe less.
    In which case he's affordable to us, and he's made it clear he's ready to take a step back in roles.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    What you are describing is literally the hope of every single fan of any team involved in professional team sports. It is hard for me to believe, yes, because it basically never happens. I think they will want to do what is best for their families, and not one single person should begrudge them for doing so. We'd all do the exact same thing.

    Obviously, the Tom Brady extension has been in the news lately, but I don't think that is a comparable situation. Brady has already won 3 titles. He's already a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. He's playing for legacy, and legacy alone. He didn't really "take less money," because the CBA allows NFL teams to be much more creative with their accounting than the NBA's CBA does.

    This also doesn't even mention the fact that he is married to a woman who makes more money than Brady (or any other NFL'er ever has) by a wide margin. Basically, what I'm saying is, Tom Brady beats every other man at life.
    Diana Taurasi and Penny Taylor (WNBA, Phoenix Mercury) took a pay cut so that their team could resign their center, so they could challenge for a championship a few years ago. And I'd imagine any pay cut they took would be more impactful than any pay cut West or Granger would take. I believe Lebron and Bosh took less money to go win. Even though they get the max (or at least Lebron does), they would have made more money had they stayed in their cities. Both situations were done for "Legacy" reasons. Aka..winning a championship.

    Danny's decision will be similar. (And West, for that matter). Although no one would/should blame Danny, if he does decide to go for more money..which I'm sure he'd get. The reality is, him and West are getting older. They're all stars, and they haven't won a championship. If this team shows the potential to do that in the playoffs, I can imagine a scenario where career goals beat out money. And I don't think it's that rare for that to happen.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    The reason to trade Danny Granger this summer, is that may be the only possible way to retain David West, and stay under the LT line.

    If you can keep West without trading him, you do that. I'm just not certain that it isn't going to take a huge deal to keep West, which I think is more important than keeping Granger.
    Even if West made $16m next year (I'd be beyond stunned, but hey it's possible), we'd still be (with Danny) at least a few million under the LT and only needing to replace Augustin and Sam Young in our rotation. That's workable. I think they'll both be here next season.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    The reason to trade Danny Granger this summer, is that may be the only possible way to retain David West, and stay under the LT line.

    If you can keep West without trading him, you do that. I'm just not certain that it isn't going to take a huge deal to keep West, which I think is more important than keeping Granger.
    West's contract expires after this season correct? So if we traded Granger, wouldn't we have to take back basically the same amount of money in a contract that wouldn't expire until the next season (or later), thus not giving us any more flexibility to bring back West?

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    Roy also has no injury history, has much rarer size and a more in demand skill set, and had never signed a big contract before. I don't think Danny would come back cheap, but they are entirely different case studies.
    Roy got offered a max contract by another team taking that decision out of his hands, I expect the same thing to happen with West and probably Danny.

    Even if they have "good intentions" some team is going to offer some crazy contract making the Pacers to overpay them.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    West's contract expires after this season correct? So if we traded Granger, wouldn't we have to take back basically the same amount of money in a contract that wouldn't expire until the next season (or later), thus not giving us any more flexibility to bring back West?
    We could take back 75%.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    We could take back 75%.
    So, we're talking about Trading Granger, someone who still is the face of the franchise, even if he's not the best player..to a team that's not going to give us equal value for him. (In terms of what Danny's worth to us.) But even worse, he'll be worth perhaps 75% of Danny's contract...which we'll likely mean...that the player we'll get is going to be someone like Reddick. If we're lucky.

    Oh, and seeing as how close George and Granger are, we'll likely upset George in the process.

    This just blows.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Diana Taurasi and Penny Taylor (WNBA, Phoenix Mercury) took a pay cut so that their team could resign their center, so they could challenge for a championship a few years ago. And I'd imagine any pay cut they took would be more impactful than any pay cut West or Granger would take. I believe Lebron and Bosh took less money to go win. Even though they get the max (or at least Lebron does), they would have made more money had they stayed in their cities. Both situations were done for "Legacy" reasons. Aka..winning a championship.

    Danny's decision will be similar. (And West, for that matter). Although no one would/should blame Danny, if he does decide to go for more money..which I'm sure he'd get. The reality is, him and West are getting older. They're all stars, and they haven't won a championship. If this team shows the potential to do that in the playoffs, I can imagine a scenario where career goals beat out money. And I don't think it's that rare for that to happen.
    Yes Bosh, Wade and Lebron gave Miami a "discount", the "discount" is kind of fake because in Florida they don't pay state taxes, also remember that Bosh was in Canada and the taxes there are a killer so even if he got the max there he would probably be making less than now at the end.

    Dwade is probably the only one giving a "discount" because he was already there is guess.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    So, we're talking about Trading Granger, someone who still is the face of the franchise, even if he's not the best player..to a team that's not going to give us equal value for him. (In terms of what Danny's worth to us.) But even worse, he'll be worth perhaps 75% of Danny's contract...which we'll likely mean...that the player we'll get is going to be someone like Reddick. If we're lucky.

    Oh, and seeing as how close George and Granger are, we'll likely upset George in the process.

    This just blows.
    I am sure George would be consulted before such a trade, in large part because in would be done so that he could get a serious pay day at the end of next year. However at this point I doubt even his agent knows exactly what he'll be worth.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    We could take back 75%.
    We could also take back 0% if we trade him to a team under the cap or that has a large trade exception.

    Great article. Too bad we don't get that kind of insight into the team from the local newspaper writers.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    The reason to trade Danny Granger this summer, is that may be the only possible way to retain David West, and stay under the LT line.

    If you can keep West without trading him, you do that. I'm just not certain that it isn't going to take a huge deal to keep West, which I think is more important than keeping Granger.
    They'll be able to keep West and not go over the luxury tax next year. Right now the Pacers are at 49.28 million for 9 players. So even if West gets 12-13 million, that still leaves 7-8 million left for 3 players. 2 of those players will likely be their draft picks at 2 million total, so they'll have money to sign either a backup PF or backup PG to fill out the roster, whichever one they don't get in the draft.

    The real problem is after next year when Granger/George/Lance all hit free agency. The poster you quoted suggests just letting Granger walk at that point instead of trading him this summer.

    I agree completely with that poster that if the Pacers trade Danny they aren't taking on any kind of significant long-term money in the process. That would be pointless. I think most of the people talking about trading him this summer are more referring to expiring+young player or expiring+picks. That would solve the money issue for future years, and also help keep the Pacers talent pipeline going.

    I do think though that with Danny's injury, the Pacers might just hold onto him and risk losing him for nothing, hoping they can get him for a bargain after his contract expires.

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  35. #123
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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Even if West made $16m next year (I'd be beyond stunned, but hey it's possible), we'd still be (with Danny) at least a few million under the LT and only needing to replace Augustin and Sam Young in our rotation. That's workable. I think they'll both be here next season.
    What about Hansbrough? His spot in the rotation will also need to be replaced, unless you're planning on him staying. If West gets $16 million, we'd be at $65.9 million. Hansbrough's QO is $4.2 million, so that puts us at $70.1 million. That puts us firmly in LT territory.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Even if West made $16m next year (I'd be beyond stunned, but hey it's possible), we'd still be (with Danny) at least a few million under the LT and only needing to replace Augustin and Sam Young in our rotation. That's workable. I think they'll both be here next season.
    Tyler would also have to be replaced in that scenario. That would be basically 66 million for 10 players, so essentially the Pacers would be filling those roles with draft picks and minimum salary players (1st round pick, 2nd round pick, and bringing Young back at the minimum would put the Pacers somewhere around 68.5-69 million for 13 players). That's pretty tight but doable. But West having that large of a contract would crush the Pacers in future seasons, so I can't see the Pacers going up that high if bidding somehow got that crazy (which I doubt).

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    The money situation is pretty tough. Now, granted, the LT could very well be a bit higher in 2 years, but probably not by a lot.

    Let's say it remains at what ShamSports currently reports it as, ~$70.3m.

    I'll try to be somewhere in between realistic and rosey with my salary projections:

    George Hill ($8m) / BackupPG
    Paul George (~$14m) / Lance Stephenson (~$5m aka MLE range) / Orlando Johnson (~$0.9m)
    Danny Granger (~$8m) / Gerald Green ($3.5m)
    David West (~$12m) / Miles Plumlee ($1.2m)
    Roy Hibbert (~$14.9m) / Ian Mahinmi ($4m)

    That adds up to $71.5, over the tax.

    Odds are we WILL NOT be willing to be a tax payer. There's a small chance; Simon allowed it in the past 10 years, but I wouldn't bet on it, either.

    And that doesn't account for 2013 draft picks, 2014 draft picks, or even if we give those all away to save money you still need to sign some minimum salary guys to keep the roster at the minimum size of 13 players. (Though, someone remind me, do minimum salary guys still count against the cap, or not? Or am I thinking that the league or someone other than the team that is, pays for their salary but it still goes on the cap?)

    So, if you think we'll give away all of our draft picks the next two years, AND Danny will take less than $8m per AND David will take less than $12m per AND Lance will take a minimum of $5m per... you might just get by.
    I could see us packaging a late 1st and Green in order to dump salary, which makes up some ground here. There is also the possibility we keep Danny and let Lance walk. I think there are ways to keep the core together, it may come down to choosing between Danny and Lance.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

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