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Thread: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

  1. #76

    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    This team's chemistry is unreal.

  2. #77

    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Who said impossibility? Point is simple. Very, very simple. Give one fact. ONE!!!! That says Danny being traded is even remotely likely. JUST ONE. Irrational is in spite of there being many many facts that say he will not likely be traded and absolutely none that he will be, still thinking he will be traded. Clearly irrational. Do you feel Paul George will be traded? Why not? Do you think David West will not be re-signed? Why not? Its far far more likely David West will not be back versus Danny Granger. And that is a longshot at this point... So in spite of all the facts leading one to believe Danny will not be traded and indeed will be re-signed when the time comes, and in spite of there not being one solitary fact that would lead one to believe Danny will be traded, he still thinks Danny will be traded. And he thinks he will be traded this offseason. The Pacers wouldnt even wait til his contract runs out. They will just get rid of him this offseason. Not only is that irrational...its plain stupid.
    First off, the "facts" have been stated before. When factoring in current contractual obligations for the next two seasons, there is only so much money available to sign PG to an extension, West to a new contract, Granger to a new contract, and to fill out the rest of the roster. I don't know the exact figures, I know they've been stated before, and referenced to in this very thread.

    Second, I believe TJ mentioned the possibility that he'll be traded in the offseason OR not re-signed after his deal runs out. He never said he'll 100% be traded this offseason. This is all pure speculation, on a internet forum, by Pacer fans.

    And third, I'm not sure you know what irrational is. You can label him pessimistic all you want, but one thing you can't say is that he's being irrational (well you can but it doesn't make you look good doing so).

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    You guys crack me up...seriously...you cant stand prosperity or experience something so positive without trying to find something negative. To read this piece and somehow get that Danny will be traded is the mystery underlying message if you read between the lines...well....thats just plain nuts. Not to mention totally ignorant of how both Larry Bird and even Donnie Walsh work. If you get that message from this article then you absolutely, positively missed the exact point of the article.
    I think this initial reaction, to what was a completely innocuous comment by Trader Joe, was irrational.

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Who said impossibility? Point is simple. Very, very simple. Give one fact. ONE!!!! That says Danny being traded is even remotely likely. JUST ONE. Irrational is in spite of there being many many facts that say he will not likely be traded and absolutely none that he will be, still thinking he will be traded. Clearly irrational. Do you feel Paul George will be traded? Why not? Do you think David West will not be re-signed? Why not? Its far far more likely David West will not be back versus Danny Granger. And that is a longshot at this point... So in spite of all the facts leading one to believe Danny will not be traded and indeed will be re-signed when the time comes, and in spite of there not being one solitary fact that would lead one to believe Danny will be traded, he still thinks Danny will be traded. And he thinks he will be traded this offseason. The Pacers wouldnt even wait til his contract runs out. They will just get rid of him this offseason. Not only is that irrational...its plain stupid.
    I think your reaction to this article, and every post you've made in this thread, has pretty much been completely over the top. It started off poorly, and has yet to improve. All in all, any concerns of irrationality in this thread, should be aimed at you.

    You said, thinking that Granger getting traded this summer is a possibility, was irrational. What is rational about that?
    Last edited by Mackey_Rose; 02-28-2013 at 01:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would like to clarify this comments because it looks like some people took it as a negative comment(somebody told me), my point is that by reading the article I believe that Paul George working out with Danny was a huge reason of why we got PG, had Danny been working out with somebody else(Hayward, Aldridge,Bledsoe or whoever) I don't think the Pacers draft him.

    So yeah thanks Danny for the referral, thanks Larry for listening to the referral and for doing a good job in drafting Paul George.
    I actually dont think it had much of anything to do with getting a referral from Danny or seeing what Danny actually thought about the guy. Larry had to know that they were working out together and knew they had become friends. You generally dont rely on your own guys to do your scouting for you except when u bring guys in. I think its much more likely Larry is just very smart and knew he was gonna draft George if he was available. And considering he played the position of his franchise star player he wanted to do so in such a way as to not create any drama and by calling Danny and "getting his opinion" and having Danny tell him to get him....well...theres a saying or motto when ur top level management. You never ask questions you dont already know the answers to. I think Larry was just incredibly smart and sly and look how it played out. When most of teh world thinks there will be big problems when Danny returns it turns out theyre all nuts because theyre such great friends and have a mentor/protege relationship. Think that happens if Larry doesnt make that call? Maybe....but maybe not. More than likely things dont go quite as smoothly. Kudos again to Larry.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I would like to clarify this comments because it looks like some people took it as a negative comment(somebody told me), my point is that by reading the article I believe that Paul George working out with Danny was a huge reason of why we got PG, had Danny been working out with somebody else(Hayward, Aldridge,Bledsoe or whoever) I don't think the Pacers draft him.

    So yeah thanks Danny for the referral, thanks Larry for listening to the referral and for doing a good job in drafting Paul George.
    Aside from you saying he played at a superstar level during the last month of last season (never letting you live it down lol) this is the nicest thing you've ever said about Danny

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    This article gave me a warm fuzzy. Seriously, got to love this team.
    Danger Zone

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I think this initial reaction, to what was a completely innocuous comment by Trader Joe, was irrational.



    I think your reaction to this article, and every post you've made in this thread, has pretty much been completely over the top. It started off poorly, and has yet to improve. All in all, any concerns of irrationality in this thread, should be aimed at you.

    You said, thinking that Granger getting traded this summer is a possibility, was irrational. What is rational about that?
    Ah...so you cant come up with any facts that might lead one to think its a possibility so you then go to the last resort...attack on a personal level since the facts wont do you any good. Gotcha. Your opinion of my posts combined with a dollar will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds. GEt my drift? Ill just wait til you give me one actual fact that might lead one to beleive Danny might get traded this summer. ONE. With regards to his "innocuous" comment, he has alluded to this same sort of thing numerous times on this board. Again, in spite of there being no facts pointing to such. Its more like an insecurity than anything else. Anything this good has obviously got to come to an end....and sooner rather than later. I mean cmon. Theres a wealth and i do mean wealth of reasons they would never trade Danny this summer. And they are in two camps...The camp that says they will never trade him and will not only not trade him but re-sign him....and the other camp being if you were going to trade him, it wont be this summer. But again, in spite of every fact known to man, he still runs around like a dude going out with a hot chick that is just certain shes gonna break up with him and can talk about nothing but. This article should serve to quell such thoughts....instead he somehow tries to irrationally use it as some sort of evidence to support his ill-conceived notion. Just like the hot chick who calls him up and tells him she wants to take him to dinner....for him to only think shes gonna do so because she wants to break up with him. I mean cmon.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    James Harden.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    The money situation is pretty tough. Now, granted, the LT could very well be a bit higher in 2 years, but probably not by a lot.

    Let's say it remains at what ShamSports currently reports it as, ~$70.3m.

    I'll try to be somewhere in between realistic and rosey with my salary projections:

    George Hill ($8m) / BackupPG
    Paul George (~$14m) / Lance Stephenson (~$5m aka MLE range) / Orlando Johnson (~$0.9m)
    Danny Granger (~$8m) / Gerald Green ($3.5m)
    David West (~$12m) / Miles Plumlee ($1.2m)
    Roy Hibbert (~$14.9m) / Ian Mahinmi ($4m)

    That adds up to $71.5, over the tax.

    Odds are we WILL NOT be willing to be a tax payer. There's a small chance; Simon allowed it in the past 10 years, but I wouldn't bet on it, either.

    And that doesn't account for 2013 draft picks, 2014 draft picks, or even if we give those all away to save money you still need to sign some minimum salary guys to keep the roster at the minimum size of 13 players. (Though, someone remind me, do minimum salary guys still count against the cap, or not? Or am I thinking that the league or someone other than the team that is, pays for their salary but it still goes on the cap?)

    So, if you think we'll give away all of our draft picks the next two years, AND Danny will take less than $8m per AND David will take less than $12m per AND Lance will take a minimum of $5m per... you might just get by.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    Ah...so you cant come up with any facts that might lead one to think its a possibility so you then go to the last resort...attack on a personal level since the facts wont do you any good. Gotcha. Your opinion of my posts combined with a dollar will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds. GEt my drift? Ill just wait til you give me one actual fact that might lead one to beleive Danny might get traded this summer. ONE. With regards to his "innocuous" comment, he has alluded to this same sort of thing numerous times on this board. Again, in spite of there being no facts pointing to such. Its more like an insecurity than anything else. Anything this good has obviously got to come to an end....and sooner rather than later. I mean cmon. Theres a wealth and i do mean wealth of reasons they would never trade Danny this summer. And they are in two camps...The camp that says they will never trade him and will not only not trade him but re-sign him....and the other camp being if you were going to trade him, it wont be this summer. But again, in spite of every fact known to man, he still runs around like a dude going out with a hot chick that is just certain shes gonna break up with him and can talk about nothing but. This article should serve to quell such thoughts....instead he somehow tries to irrationally use it as some sort of evidence to support his ill-conceived notion. Just like the hot chick who calls him up and tells him she wants to take him to dinner....for him to only think shes gonna do so because she wants to break up with him. I mean cmon.
    http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...ies/pacers.jsp

    These are the numbers that show how much money has already been committed for the Pacers. These are factual. I already stated why I think these numbers make trading Granger a possibility. That doesn't mean that there is 100% chance he will be. That means, it could happen. That is not irrational.

    Those numbers are factual, and certainly more so than anything in that article. Why you are using this article to make any kind of claim that it is factual evidence that any thoughts of him possibly being traded are irrational, is beyond me.

    This is all really weird.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    James Harden.
    Unfortunately this is a VERY good example. Harden was entrenched in OKC's culture but when it came to the money, he wanted more than OKC was going to be able to pay, and he was traded.

    The only unknown when it comes to Danny is how much he expects to make. Harden was going into his first big contract, following his rookie deal. Danny is coming off his first big contract, and is going to be 31...not old, but definitely on the backside of his career.

    I think it all comes down to what Danny feels he's worth, monetary wise.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    James Harden.
    Tyson Chandler, Rudy Gay, whoever Memphis send to Cleveland.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    One thought.

    We know that the Simons have been willing to go into the LT in the past for the right players. We know that Donnie is willing to pay our players (arguably too much at times) for their loyalty.

    Though I don't agree, let's assume the story of Bird leaving because Simon wouldn't do something is somehow true. We know it wasn't that he wouldn't go over the cap - he went over the cap. He wouldn't have been able to go over the LT on players this year because he couldn't have signed the combination that would have that much pay THIS year (possibly could grow to it in the future if signed in the right order, but that's for another debate). To make this work at all, it would really need to mean that Simon didn't want to spend the money on players Bird wanted if it meant getting rid of certain players already on the team.

    IF that is the case, there is every possibility that Simon would be willing to go over the LT to keep this core together. Now, that could be good or bad, considering that contracts which end up being too long can be devastating. However, IF we're in a Pistons Position, where one good well-fitting trade could push us over the top, keeping this core together for at least another two years might be worth the money.
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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    And that doesn't account for 2013 draft picks, 2014 draft picks, or even if we give those all away to save money you still need to sign some minimum salary guys to keep the roster at the minimum size of 13 players. (Though, someone remind me, do minimum salary guys still count against the cap, or not? Or am I thinking that the league or someone other than the team that is, pays for their salary but it still goes on the cap?)
    You can sign players for the minimum to fill out the roster, if you are over the cap. But I'm pretty sure they still count against the luxury tax.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    You can expect Danny to at least get a deal comparable to West's IMO. 2/20

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    It is just a reality that if Granger is a guy that is worth keeping, he's going to be nearly impossible to keep.

    West is a no-brainer. George is a no-brainer. We already have made our bed with Hibbert and Hill. Where is the money going to come from?
    I have said something for several months now. And to an extent, this article supports my belief. It emphasizes comradery of the WHOLE team. And, this is something very rare in all of sports, perhaps unique in the NBA, wher the almighty dollar has ruled the roost.

    So, is it hard to believe that both West and Granger recognize this and have a great appreciation of how rare it is? Rather than risk losing that with another team, would any of you now believe that West and Granger would be willing to sacrifice a little on thei next contracts to maintain the core of the team they currently have?

    put me on record as saying that the team and the players will find a way to make it work.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Keep this team together. They are close as a team and fun to watch. Hill, Stephenson, Granger, West, Hibbert, Hansbrough, Mahinmi and most important of all Paul George all need to retire as pacers

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    One thought.

    We know that the Simons have been willing to go into the LT in the past for the right players. We know that Donnie is willing to pay our players (arguably too much at times) for their loyalty.

    Though I don't agree, let's assume the story of Bird leaving because Simon wouldn't do something is somehow true. We know it wasn't that he wouldn't go over the cap - he went over the cap. He wouldn't have been able to go over the LT on players this year because he couldn't have signed the combination that would have that much pay THIS year (possibly could grow to it in the future if signed in the right order, but that's for another debate). To make this work at all, it would really need to mean that Simon didn't want to spend the money on players Bird wanted if it meant getting rid of certain players already on the team.

    IF that is the case, there is every possibility that Simon would be willing to go over the LT to keep this core together. Now, that could be good or bad, considering that contracts which end up being too long can be devastating. However, IF we're in a Pistons Position, where one good well-fitting trade could push us over the top, keeping this core together for at least another two years might be worth the money.
    Not to mention that by the time Paul is up for his extension, and Danny expires, we will only have 2 years left on Roy's deal (technically one year with a STUPID player option for 15 MIL--WTF?!?!).

    I'm gonna just go out on a limb and say we are NOT signing him for anything close to what he's being paid now, and if someone offers it to him--we let him walk. So so we struggle financially for a year or two to keep this core together?

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    One thought.

    We know that the Simons have been willing to go into the LT in the past for the right players. We know that Donnie is willing to pay our players (arguably too much at times) for their loyalty.

    Though I don't agree, let's assume the story of Bird leaving because Simon wouldn't do something is somehow true. We know it wasn't that he wouldn't go over the cap - he went over the cap. He wouldn't have been able to go over the LT on players this year because he couldn't have signed the combination that would have that much pay THIS year (possibly could grow to it in the future if signed in the right order, but that's for another debate). To make this work at all, it would really need to mean that Simon didn't want to spend the money on players Bird wanted if it meant getting rid of certain players already on the team.

    IF that is the case, there is every possibility that Simon would be willing to go over the LT to keep this core together. Now, that could be good or bad, considering that contracts which end up being too long can be devastating. However, IF we're in a Pistons Position, where one good well-fitting trade could push us over the top, keeping this core together for at least another two years might be worth the money.
    Going over the cap few years ago is way different than going over the cap now with the new CBA, the money teams lose is too much, also remember that there is a max of 3 years over the cap before teams start paying more money.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    I have said something for several months now. And to an extent, this article supports my belief. It emphasizes comradely of the WHOLE team. And, this is something very rare in all of sports, perhaps unique in the NBA, wher the almighty dollar has ruled the roost.

    So, is it hard to believe that both West and Granger recognize this and have a great appreciation of how rare it is? Rather than risk losing that with another team, would any of you now believe that West and Granger would be willing to sacrifice a little on thei next contracts to maintain the core of the team they currently have?

    put me on record as saying that the team and the players will find a way to make it work.
    What you are describing is literally the hope of every single fan of any team involved in professional team sports. It is hard for me to believe, yes, because it basically never happens. I think they will want to do what is best for their families, and not one single person should begrudge them for doing so. We'd all do the exact same thing.

    Obviously, the Tom Brady extension has been in the news lately, but I don't think that is a comparable situation. Brady has already won 3 titles. He's already a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. He's playing for legacy, and legacy alone. He didn't really "take less money," because the CBA allows NFL teams to be much more creative with their accounting than the NBA's CBA does.

    This also doesn't even mention the fact that he is married to a woman who makes more money than Brady (or any other NFL'er ever has) by a wide margin. Basically, what I'm saying is, Tom Brady beats every other man at life.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    James Harden.
    Please dont tell me this is your justification for why you think Danny will be traded this summer...Please. Was James Harden the captain of the team and face of the franchise? Was he Durants mentor? Lol...cmon...Is Danny Granger on a rookie contract and will be looking at re-signing for millions and millions more? Was James Harden the heart and soul of the Thunder? cmon man...this makes it even worse. Now if they wouldve traded Durant or Westbrook, ok.....lol.. then you got a poiint. If they traded Durant or Westbrook so they could make room to re-sign Harden, then OK. Or, OKC. But they didnt.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    You can expect Danny to at least get a deal comparable to West's IMO. 2/20
    If he doesn't get any better or healthier I don't see that happening, maybe something like what Suckleavy got I think.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    What you are describing is literally the hope of every single fan of any team involved in professional team sports. It is hard for me to believe, yes, because it basically never happens. I think they will want to do what is best for their families, and not one single person should begrudge them for doing so. We'd all do the exact same thing.

    Obviously, the Tom Brady extension has been in the news lately, but I don't think that is a comparable situation. Brady has already won 3 titles. He's already a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. He's playing for legacy, and legacy alone. He didn't really "take less money," because the CBA allows NFL teams to be much more creative with their accounting than the NBA's CBA does.

    This also doesn't even mention the fact that he is married to a woman who makes more money than Brady (or any other NFL'er ever has) by a wide margin. Basically, what I'm saying is, Tom Brady beats every other man at life.
    Ahem, Cough.....Lebron, Wade, Bosh...cough.....

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Assuming we want to retain George, West, and Stephenson, I don't see how we have enough money for Danny. That said, I think it is highly unlikely we trade him next year. The Pacers are at a huge advantage in that his contract expires the same year PG is up for his first big contract. There would be very few if any contracts we could take back that would provide us with that kind of long-term financial flexibility AND production like Danny's does. Not retaining Danny is very, very possible, but the Pacers would be shooting themselves in the foot by trading him under almost all scenarios this offseason.

    Don't obsess over ""we get nothing of value if we let Danny go for nothing." The value is you have more flexibility to sign Paul George (and hopefully Lance) long-term deals. If we trade Danny for some high-priced player with 3 years left on a similar contract I will be worried about this team's basic business sense.

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    Default Re: Danny Granger and Paul George have unique bond that makes Pacers real threat in East (Article about Granger/George)

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I have said something for several months now. And to an extent, this article supports my belief. It emphasizes comradery of the WHOLE team. And, this is something very rare in all of sports, perhaps unique in the NBA, wher the almighty dollar has ruled the roost.

    So, is it hard to believe that both West and Granger recognize this and have a great appreciation of how rare it is? Rather than risk losing that with another team, would any of you now believe that West and Granger would be willing to sacrifice a little on thei next contracts to maintain the core of the team they currently have?

    put me on record as saying that the team and the players will find a way to make it work.
    I remember when people thought the same thing about Roy.

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