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Thread: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    My apologies in advance to Dipperdunk, I have always respected the 76er franchise. That is until they sold their souls to the two bit little tyrant.

    To me he represents everything & I mean everything that is wrong with the N.B.A. from the late 90's till now. BTW, stop now if you are going to say that I am a hater because of his dress or his actions off of the court or better yet his color. I have zero problems with any of that because I don't care what a person does off of the court, however I have a huge huge problem with what he does on the court.

    Oxford dictionary describes the word selfish as follows:

    selfish

    • adjective concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure at the expense of consideration for others. example Allen Iverson

    — DERIVATIVES selfishly adverb selfishness noun.

    Ok, so I added the Iverson part but you get my point. The very fact that this guy got to an N.B.A. title game tells you how absolutely pathetic the east has been from the time our team broke up in 2000 till the Pistons brought the gold back east last season.

    This guy gets mad because nobody will help him score yet when he has scorers on his team he gets mad if he is not getting enough of his own. How many players have the 76ers had to get rid of over the years because this jackass couldn't work with them?

    I also HATE this B.S. false toughness that he is always awarded by people. They keep saying over & over he is so small & he keeps going in & getting hit yet he keeps going.

    Bullcrap!!!!! The fact is he is so damn small that he throws himself into players & he falls down & the refs. call the damn foul on the bigger guy. Only Ron Artest has ever really laid a hit on him worth doing & guess what, Big Al didn't drive the rest of the game. I wish some of those big guys would lay him out on his *** so we would stop seeing this selfish little *** charge up the middle.

    Matt Goukas once said when A.I. was in his second year that if the refs. didn't call palming like they don't do for Big Al that Tiny Archiball would score 50 points every game. Or conversly if they called A.I. for all the palming he did do that he would average more turnovers a game than he would points.

    Now to the way he acts on court. Like I've said countless times in the Artest posts, I don't buy into the crap that he hates to lose so bad that it causes him to act bad. I hold Iverson to the same standard. How many times over the years just here in Indiana have we seen him have to be litterally carried off of the court by one of the bigger players because he was crying to the refs. & in one case litterally crying.

    Look, I'm no hypocrite on this. We have Reggie Miller & I don't like it when he does it either. But I've never seen LaSalle Thompson have to pick up Reggie & carry him to the bench like I saw Geiger have to do in the 00 series.

    Sorry, I've been on to much of a Ron Artest push lately. It feels good to get back to hating on the enemy.

    Sorry Dip. Hey, at least I love Andrew Tony

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    sorry, I'm not a huge fan of Iverson's character, but as a player, Iveron's got amazing heart and ability.

    You try playing a game with guys 7'3" and 280 lbs, and YOU throw your body right into them, for 82 games a season over 9 years.

    Trust me, it hurts. The fact he's still in 1 piece is a freaking miracle.

    Oh, and if Iverson's NEVER really hit, please tell me why he racks up more injuries every year than most entire TEAMS? I know DD will attest to that. Does he get hurt tripping over the foul line or something?

    I respect ANY player who can drop 55 one night, and come back the next night and drop 51.

    Also, the fact he won league MVP at barely 6 feet tall is remarkable.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    sorry, I'm not a huge fan of Iverson's character, but as a player, Iveron's got amazing heart and ability.

    You try playing a game with guys 7'3" and 280 lbs, and YOU throw your body right into them, for 82 games a season over 9 years.

    Trust me, it hurts. The fact he's still in 1 piece is a freaking miracle.

    Oh, and if Iverson's NEVER really hit, please tell me why he racks up more injuries every year than most entire TEAMS? I know DD will attest to that. Does he get hurt tripping over the foul line or something?

    I respect ANY player who can drop 55 one night, and come back the next night and drop 51.

    Also, the fact he won league MVP at barely 6 feet tall is remarkable.
    You might be to young for this analogy but it's the only one I can think of.

    Allen Iverson is the Les Nesman of the NBA. WKRP in Cincinnatti fans will know who I'm talking about. Les came into the station everyday with a new bandaid on a new part of his body.

    I consider Iverson the same thing.

    Is he talented? Yes.

    Can he make the players around him better? Sadly, he can when he chooses to. He just doesn't choose to very often.

    No offense intended here but this line is so cliche' about Iverson that it should be yelled by every PA announcer in the NBA.

    "Iveron's got amazing heart and ability."

    Why? Because he runs down the lane & gets a foul called on the bigger defender everytime no matter if he gets hit hard or not?

    Look, we have one of the if not the biggest floppers to ever play the game right here & I've watched him for 17 years. Iverson is almost on par with Reggie in this catagory.

    Like I said, I've seen Allen take a big hit once. A real hit that was intended to hit him & my other favorite player did it (Artest btw). That night Iverson did NOT drive the lane for the next three quarters. He just settled for jump shots & he was horrid.

    I don't care one bit if a player scores 70 points if his team doesn't win. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want a player on my team that tried to score 50 points so many games in a row & leave his team mates hanging. I'm not talking about his current streak btw, because I'll be honest I haven't seen any of his recent games. But I know that there have been past players on his team once they got away from him sound off about how he griped about how he had no help but would get mad whenever somebody else tried to score. One of those players used to be on your team btw.

    Look the older I get the more of a prude I guess I become, but I guess I just don't like any player that puts himself above the team.

    This goes for players on our team as well, but I certainly include Iverson in this.

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    I don't really care for The Answer.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    I don't like his brand of ball particularly - never have. With his spelling skills he probably thinks team is spellied tIeam. And from what I know of him (which isn't much) I can't say as I care for him as a person. Don't care much for his practice habits either.

    But I wouldn't deny he has guts. And I'll leave it to Sixers fans whether they want to keep him or send him packing.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    The Olympics really showed how one dimensional his game is. He only really drove to the basket when he was on the break and he did the same thing he always does, run across the defender and force up a shot so the refs almost always blow the foul. Other than that he put up tough fadeaways from the top of the key (and made a reasonable % for the difficulty of the shot) but couldn't make a spotup 3 for most of the tournament.

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    Peck, as an adult, you are able to separate AI's on-court and off-court "personalities".

    But, I don't think it is that simple. Like it or not, sports personalities are the heroes of many of our youth. And whether we would want these celebrities to be or not, they have become at least "part-time" role models for our youth.

    For that reason, I believe it is important that these celebrities make every effort to be good citizens, both on and off the court. Since they are being paid millions of dollars to play a game, I don't think that is too much to ask. We accept the fact that they are human and like the rest of us will occassionally screw up. But the effort should be there.

    I think all of us can form opinions of Iverson, the sports star. We base it on what we observe on the court.

    I absolutely cannot stand Iverson. My reasons are basically the same as yours. He's all about individual statistics, with his team winning being only secondary. He may spew a contrasting opinion during interviews, but his actions prove otherwise. I believe there have been seasons where Iverson even averaged close to 30 shots a game. Averaged around 30 points per game, but 30 freakin' shots a game!!! During his prime, that would have enabled Reggie to average what... about 45 points per game, right?

    Judging a player's off-court personality is much harder. We have to go a little by what we see of the player on the court. But we are mostly influenced by what we read... the opinions of others, and what we choose to believe.

    I believe that Iverson is one who does not like to take full responsibility. He likes to point the finger elsewhere. His fiasco in Indy, where he accused our fans of racist comments. The lyrics of his rap album. Comments that he has reportedly made in practice to teammates. Everything that I've seen and read about Iverson through the years has led me to suspect that he himself might be racist. I could be totally wrong, but that's just what the pit of my stomach tells me. And since I detest racism, I don't find it difficult to hate Iverson, the citizen, as well as Iverson the player.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    Peck, I imagine this response will probably be too damn long (lol). I can understand your view point of Iverson I think as fans it's difficult to judge an out of town player because you don't get to see him every game and he may struggle in games against your team. He also has a style of play that can be viewed as selfish if you prefer a team oriented ball movement type of offense. He does have some flaws in his game that you mentioned.

    I know Iverson has played poorly the last couple of games against the Pacers and when he is bad he can be really bad and take the team out of games. It's tough to win when you have one player shooting 6-27 etc.,, and turning the ball over 6 or 7 times he was horrible on a recent 5 game road trip and shot about 28% all 76er losses some of them by just 1 or 2 points. So if you watched him on that trip you would think he was overrated but he came back and the last 5 games he is averaging over 40 a game and has been phenomenal.

    Last year he had I think an 8 pt. game against the Pacers but the next night on the back end of a back to back he scored 51 against the Hawks and Stephen Jackson and was great so I think you need to see a guy every night to get a good read on his game. As he has gotten older he has become more inconsistent and there are too many of the 8-26 shooting nights so he isn't the player he was 4-5 years ago this recent stretch not withstanding. He seems to have found the fountain of youth this past week. (lol)

    Is he selfish? I think off the court he has some selfish tendencies in his character his father wasn't around as a child and you can see that he didn't have discipline in his upbringing and he tends to revolt against authority that is one of the reasons he clashed with Larry Brown who tried to act like a father figure with him. And he clashed last season with Chris Ford when Ford tried to discipline him. He isn't a leader off the court.

    I don't think he is selfish toward other people like say someone like Kobe Bryant who seems to be a "me 1st" type of person actually Iverson is probably too loyal to his roots and some of his childhood friends have landed him in trouble over the years but he doesn't want to be viewed as a sellout. Pat Croce and Charles Barkley over the years have both spoken with him and have tried to get Iverson to pull away from some of his childhood friends who are troublemakers but Iverson has refused up to this point some people view it as loyalty to his roots and a good thing and others like Barkley view it as stupidity he was almost shot last summer outside of a night club in Philly and his uncle who was standing next to him was the target and took the bullet.

    On the court is he selfish? I don't think so; I think some nights he takes too many bad shots and has poor shot selection but I've always faulted the 76ers organization for not bringing in good complementary scorers to play along side of him. Also he has never had a teammate complain about not getting the ball or call him selfish. Most of his teammates over the years have loved playing with Iverson and his leadership on the court and he has made them better players. Some people say that Van Horn and Kukoc failed playing with Iverson but that is a false perception. Van Horn had a very good season playing 2nd fiddle next to Iverson and hasn't done as well since leaving the 76ers. The 76ers were only a couple of heartbreaking playoff losses to the Pistons from being in the East. Conf. finals that year with Van Horn. Kukoc was fine with Iverson he was traded because Brown didn't like his defense and he wanted Mutombo but Kukoc fit in perfectly with Iverson and was a nice 2nd option the 76ers were 41-14 at that time before trading Kukoc so they had great chemistry together. But if you listen to the media they will tell you that Kukoc and Van Horn failed as 2nd scoring options that just wasn't the case.

    It was Larry's system that put defensive players next to Iverson and they thrived using that system so it's hard to fault it. You don't mind if a guy takes 24 shots if you are winning games. His teammates didn't mind because they had offensive flaws in their games and Iverson was taking pressure off of them and letting them concentrate on the defensive end of the court. A player like Snow thrived playing next to Iverson because Iverson shouldering the scoring burden took pressure off of Snow and his offensive deficiencies. If you look at him this year in Cleveland he has been horrible averaging about 3 pts. per game. Also Snow was the type of leader that if he thought a player was selfish or didn't like the way things were happening he wouldn't hesitate to say something about it that is why he recently got in trouble in Cleveland he speaks his mind. He never complained about Iverson he always had good things to say about him even after leaving town he said he was lucky to be able to play next to Iverson for most of his career and he cherished that time. So I know that his teammates don't view him as selfish. He is best friends with Aaron McKie who is a class act. He has never had any issues with teammates most of the time he sticks up for them during tough times and takes the blame.

    There was a playoff series against Boston a couple of years ago the 76ers lossed and Snow was awful shooting 3-33 the 3 games in Boston and the Philly media was trying to get Iverson to blame Snow and instead he ripped into the media and defended Snow that was the same press conference with his infamous "we are talking about practice" quotes. He has defended all of his teammates over the years even this summer he didn't rip any of his teammates on the olympic team even though some of their performances and actions were pretty poor he defended them and that is why guys like to play with him.

    It's just a situation where if you are the only offensive option if you need to take 28 shots to help your team win than that's what you have to do. I think Tinsley is currently dealing with that problem; he sees that he is the only option for the Pacers with your big guns out of the lineup and he is probably trying too hard you can fault his shot selection recently but I don't think you can say Tinsley has been selfish he is just trying to do what he can to help the Pacers win. The game Wilt scored 100 points he attempted 63 shots. Was he selfish that game? Some people said yes which is the reason Wilt later led the league in assists because he was tired of people calling him selfish but he also had better players around him the year he led the league in assists so he knew he didn't have to average 50 a game for his team to win. He later said that in an interview that he didn't become less selfish the year he led the league in assist he just had great players around him and that enabled him to change his game.

    I think it is more a result of expansion where you have superstars who are forced to do too much because they have less talented players around them.
    If Magic didn't have Jabbar or Worthy on his team than he probably would have taken more shots a game as well. Nobody remembers how many shots Magic took in game 6 of the finals his rookie season when Jabbar was out of the lineup; I was at that game and nobody in the crowd thought it was selfishness it was just viewed as great individual performance willing his team to victory. Iverson has never played with another superstar next to him when Larry Brown passed on Paul Pierce that draft that pretty much sealed Iverson's fate that he would be surrounded by role players who were weak offensive players like Snow,Lynch,Hill,Ratliff and he made all of them better none of them have had the same success since leaving the 76ers that they had here because Iverson was able to hide their offensive flaws by shouldering the scoring responsibility himself. Maybe if he had Pierce another superstar next to him he would have been able to approach things differently but he didn't have that option.

    Kobe is now forced to try to do much on offense and that is the reason you see his turnovers increase as he is leading the league and his shooting % is worse than Iverson's this season. Has he all of a sudden become a horrible shooter and a selfish player? I don't think so I think he is just trying to do too much because he is no longer playing next to a superstar and is surrounded by mediocre role players. It is the same thing Dominique encountered in his career when people called him selfish. He wasn't selfish he just had to take more shots than Bird or Magic because he wasn't playing next to McHale/Parish or Worthy/Jabbar.

    This season Iverson's shot attempts are down because O'Brien has added some better offensive players around Iverson so he doesn't feel like he needs to score 40 every night for the team to win. His assists are up and he recently has been doing a nice job of passing the ball. He had a game a couple of weeks ago where he had 14 assists and zero TO's. He's never going to be Jason Kidd but I think he is trying to get guys more involved since moving to the point. Kyle Korver has thrived playing with Iverson and they have great chemistry together and I think it's because Korver is the first great shooter that Iverson had played with in his career. Here is a quote from Korver after the game the other night...

    "He puts up 50 points two nights in a row and he's still looking for us," Korver said. "A lot of guys are capable of putting up 50 points back-to-back nights, but they (think), this is my show. He wasn't like that. It's pretty amazing."

    Okay I'm almost done. (lol)

    Peck I respect your point of view and your opinion is actually very similar to my father's view of Iverson he also thinks Iverson is a little selfish on the court at times and he would prefer Iverson looked for his his teammates more often and he also hates it when Iverson tries to drive in on 7 footers out of control and begs for foul calls but he is old school his favorite player was Billy Cunningham. And he watched all the Sixers/Celtics duels with the great unselfish passing teams the Celts had under Auerbach so he prefers that old school traditional style of play with ball movement.

    With that being said he still thinks Iverson is one of the best 76ers ever and is a great player but he sees some of flaws in Iverson's game that you mentioned and I agree with those. He also makes sure to remind me all the time that Iverson is a terrific player but that he couldn't hold a candle to Jerry West or some of the other legendary shooting guards of all-time but he does think Iverson is a special player.

    I always seem to defend Iverson on this board but that is mostly just when people say he is overrated or he sucks etc.,, he isn't my favorite player on the 76ers because some of the reasons you mentioned I prefer guys like Theo Ratliff or Eric Snow or on the current 76ers roster I like Korver and Iguodala who is as complete a player you will find for a rookie with today's young players he is a throwback and doesn't force things and lets the game come to him. Also I'm a quiet person by nature and playing baseball growing up I was blessed with great god given talent but I was always humble about my ability and actually a little bit shy so I prefer athletes with humility and don't care for the chest bumping or hands to the ear antics of Iverson or the times when he acts unprofessional and refuses to play because he isn't starting etc.,,,

    I wanted the 76ers to trade Iverson this summer. To me it just didn't make sense to keep him with all the other young players they have on the team and I didn't care for his antics last season. They aren't winning a championship any time soon and with Iverson's skills diminishing I thought this summer was the perfect time to move in a different direction and unload him but O'Brien wanted the opportunity to coach him.

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    I have NEVER liked Iverson or his game.

    BUT

    You cannot question his heart.

    AND

    Because he played, and played hard, for the Olympic team, I swore that I would not crticize him again. And I won't. THe man played for the US team when MANY MANY US stars begged off. Had they cited fear of terrorism I would have understood, but they came up with lame excuses and "fake" injuries. IVY played, that's good enough for me.
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    I don't think it takes a whole lot of skill to shoot 35 times a game and hit 10 shots to get your points. I have always thought he was way overrated, and for the calls he gets, he is not a superstar caliber player.
    Sorry, I didn't know advertising was illegal here. Someone call the cops!

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    Quote Originally Posted by TruWarier
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    I don't think it takes a whole lot of skill to shoot 35 times a game and hit 10 shots to get your points. I have always thought he was way overrated, and for the calls he gets, he is not a superstar caliber player.
    Again this perception of Iverson isn't based on any facts whatsoever. All-time he isn't even in top 27 in field goals attempted per season.

    http://www.basketballreference.com/l...?stat=fga&lg=n

    Before he had a supporting cast around him Jordan shots per game.

    1986 28 shots per game
    1987 25 shots per game
    1989 25 shots per game

    Was Jordan overrated because he was scoring 30-35 points on 28 shots?

    For their careers

    Jordan 30 pts a game on 23 shots per game
    Iverson 28 pts a game on 22.5 shots per game

  12. #12
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    You know, "not meshing with AI" isn't the only reason so many players got traded off that Philly team...

    they also had Larry Brown.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    I dont bender hate anyone bender! I may act bender like I do sometimes bender but it's really just an bender act.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Banned JOneal7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    I don't really hate him...But he is a jack ***. Eating nachos on the bench while his team was playing. Missing practice...then complaining about it "It's only practice!"..beating his wife and leaving her naked outside. Being an *** to the fans. Not signing...
    and people still love this guy! I went to the all star game in philly...and I'll be damned! They like have his jerseys and shoes all over! posters of him are all over the city. He's there icon! It's a shame we arent that high on JO here.

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays
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    I dont bender hate anyone bender! I may act bender like I do sometimes bender but it's really just an bender act.
    That's priceless.
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    Talking Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays
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    I dont bender hate anyone bender! I may act bender like I do sometimes bender but it's really just an bender act.
    I didn't realize Kevin Nealon posted on this board. I loved you on SNL, Kevin.

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    No offense dipperdunk, but I haven't liked any sports team and most fans from Philly since I heard that Michael Irvin went paralyzed temporarily during a Philly game and the fans started cheering...that just leaves a bad taste in your mouth... I don't like AI for most of the same reasons that JOneal7 mentioned. I think that it'd be pretty easy to score 24+ points a night if you're shooting 30-40 times and only making 12-16...I just have a hard time cheering for him no matter what team he's playing on.

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    I give em a thumbs up tonight! I thought he led his team well...and he was nice to the fans. So no doubt he gets big props from me

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    He's busy trying to coax Andrew Toney and Maurice Cheeks out of retirement.....

    he may even go after Hal Greer and CHet Walker, who knows.....

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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    People always say it would be easy to score that many points with that many shots. But most players in the NBA dont want that responsibility. They dont want to be the guy with the ball at the end of the game. They dont want to be the guy the media and the city blames if you cant get it done.

    Remember how tired Jermaine looked in the Dallas game? Iverson does that every night.

    I dont like Iverson either but I respect his ability and that he never shys away.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    No. He is an A$$HOLE. Anybody that parks in handicap parking for weeks at a time, deserves time.

    I'm sure there is a special place in hell awaiting him...and probley his mom.

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    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    Quote Originally Posted by dipperdunk
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    Peck, I imagine this response will probably be too damn long (lol). I can understand your view point of Iverson I think as fans it's difficult to judge an out of town player because you don't get to see him every game and he may struggle in games against your team. He also has a style of play that can be viewed as selfish if you prefer a team oriented ball movement type of offense. He does have some flaws in his game that you mentioned.

    I know Iverson has played poorly the last couple of games against the Pacers and when he is bad he can be really bad and take the team out of games. It's tough to win when you have one player shooting 6-27 etc.,, and turning the ball over 6 or 7 times he was horrible on a recent 5 game road trip and shot about 28% all 76er losses some of them by just 1 or 2 points. So if you watched him on that trip you would think he was overrated but he came back and the last 5 games he is averaging over 40 a game and has been phenomenal.

    Last year he had I think an 8 pt. game against the Pacers but the next night on the back end of a back to back he scored 51 against the Hawks and Stephen Jackson and was great so I think you need to see a guy every night to get a good read on his game. As he has gotten older he has become more inconsistent and there are too many of the 8-26 shooting nights so he isn't the player he was 4-5 years ago this recent stretch not withstanding. He seems to have found the fountain of youth this past week. (lol)

    Is he selfish? I think off the court he has some selfish tendencies in his character his father wasn't around as a child and you can see that he didn't have discipline in his upbringing and he tends to revolt against authority that is one of the reasons he clashed with Larry Brown who tried to act like a father figure with him. And he clashed last season with Chris Ford when Ford tried to discipline him. He isn't a leader off the court.

    I don't think he is selfish toward other people like say someone like Kobe Bryant who seems to be a "me 1st" type of person actually Iverson is probably too loyal to his roots and some of his childhood friends have landed him in trouble over the years but he doesn't want to be viewed as a sellout. Pat Croce and Charles Barkley over the years have both spoken with him and have tried to get Iverson to pull away from some of his childhood friends who are troublemakers but Iverson has refused up to this point some people view it as loyalty to his roots and a good thing and others like Barkley view it as stupidity he was almost shot last summer outside of a night club in Philly and his uncle who was standing next to him was the target and took the bullet.

    On the court is he selfish? I don't think so; I think some nights he takes too many bad shots and has poor shot selection but I've always faulted the 76ers organization for not bringing in good complementary scorers to play along side of him. Also he has never had a teammate complain about not getting the ball or call him selfish. Most of his teammates over the years have loved playing with Iverson and his leadership on the court and he has made them better players. Some people say that Van Horn and Kukoc failed playing with Iverson but that is a false perception. Van Horn had a very good season playing 2nd fiddle next to Iverson and hasn't done as well since leaving the 76ers. The 76ers were only a couple of heartbreaking playoff losses to the Pistons from being in the East. Conf. finals that year with Van Horn. Kukoc was fine with Iverson he was traded because Brown didn't like his defense and he wanted Mutombo but Kukoc fit in perfectly with Iverson and was a nice 2nd option the 76ers were 41-14 at that time before trading Kukoc so they had great chemistry together. But if you listen to the media they will tell you that Kukoc and Van Horn failed as 2nd scoring options that just wasn't the case.

    It was Larry's system that put defensive players next to Iverson and they thrived using that system so it's hard to fault it. You don't mind if a guy takes 24 shots if you are winning games. His teammates didn't mind because they had offensive flaws in their games and Iverson was taking pressure off of them and letting them concentrate on the defensive end of the court. A player like Snow thrived playing next to Iverson because Iverson shouldering the scoring burden took pressure off of Snow and his offensive deficiencies. If you look at him this year in Cleveland he has been horrible averaging about 3 pts. per game. Also Snow was the type of leader that if he thought a player was selfish or didn't like the way things were happening he wouldn't hesitate to say something about it that is why he recently got in trouble in Cleveland he speaks his mind. He never complained about Iverson he always had good things to say about him even after leaving town he said he was lucky to be able to play next to Iverson for most of his career and he cherished that time. So I know that his teammates don't view him as selfish. He is best friends with Aaron McKie who is a class act. He has never had any issues with teammates most of the time he sticks up for them during tough times and takes the blame.

    There was a playoff series against Boston a couple of years ago the 76ers lossed and Snow was awful shooting 3-33 the 3 games in Boston and the Philly media was trying to get Iverson to blame Snow and instead he ripped into the media and defended Snow that was the same press conference with his infamous "we are talking about practice" quotes. He has defended all of his teammates over the years even this summer he didn't rip any of his teammates on the olympic team even though some of their performances and actions were pretty poor he defended them and that is why guys like to play with him.

    It's just a situation where if you are the only offensive option if you need to take 28 shots to help your team win than that's what you have to do. I think Tinsley is currently dealing with that problem; he sees that he is the only option for the Pacers with your big guns out of the lineup and he is probably trying too hard you can fault his shot selection recently but I don't think you can say Tinsley has been selfish he is just trying to do what he can to help the Pacers win. The game Wilt scored 100 points he attempted 63 shots. Was he selfish that game? Some people said yes which is the reason Wilt later led the league in assists because he was tired of people calling him selfish but he also had better players around him the year he led the league in assists so he knew he didn't have to average 50 a game for his team to win. He later said that in an interview that he didn't become less selfish the year he led the league in assist he just had great players around him and that enabled him to change his game.

    I think it is more a result of expansion where you have superstars who are forced to do too much because they have less talented players around them.
    If Magic didn't have Jabbar or Worthy on his team than he probably would have taken more shots a game as well. Nobody remembers how many shots Magic took in game 6 of the finals his rookie season when Jabbar was out of the lineup; I was at that game and nobody in the crowd thought it was selfishness it was just viewed as great individual performance willing his team to victory. Iverson has never played with another superstar next to him when Larry Brown passed on Paul Pierce that draft that pretty much sealed Iverson's fate that he would be surrounded by role players who were weak offensive players like Snow,Lynch,Hill,Ratliff and he made all of them better none of them have had the same success since leaving the 76ers that they had here because Iverson was able to hide their offensive flaws by shouldering the scoring responsibility himself. Maybe if he had Pierce another superstar next to him he would have been able to approach things differently but he didn't have that option.

    Kobe is now forced to try to do much on offense and that is the reason you see his turnovers increase as he is leading the league and his shooting % is worse than Iverson's this season. Has he all of a sudden become a horrible shooter and a selfish player? I don't think so I think he is just trying to do too much because he is no longer playing next to a superstar and is surrounded by mediocre role players. It is the same thing Dominique encountered in his career when people called him selfish. He wasn't selfish he just had to take more shots than Bird or Magic because he wasn't playing next to McHale/Parish or Worthy/Jabbar.

    This season Iverson's shot attempts are down because O'Brien has added some better offensive players around Iverson so he doesn't feel like he needs to score 40 every night for the team to win. His assists are up and he recently has been doing a nice job of passing the ball. He had a game a couple of weeks ago where he had 14 assists and zero TO's. He's never going to be Jason Kidd but I think he is trying to get guys more involved since moving to the point. Kyle Korver has thrived playing with Iverson and they have great chemistry together and I think it's because Korver is the first great shooter that Iverson had played with in his career. Here is a quote from Korver after the game the other night...

    "He puts up 50 points two nights in a row and he's still looking for us," Korver said. "A lot of guys are capable of putting up 50 points back-to-back nights, but they (think), this is my show. He wasn't like that. It's pretty amazing."

    Okay I'm almost done. (lol)

    Peck I respect your point of view and your opinion is actually very similar to my father's view of Iverson he also thinks Iverson is a little selfish on the court at times and he would prefer Iverson looked for his his teammates more often and he also hates it when Iverson tries to drive in on 7 footers out of control and begs for foul calls but he is old school his favorite player was Billy Cunningham. And he watched all the Sixers/Celtics duels with the great unselfish passing teams the Celts had under Auerbach so he prefers that old school traditional style of play with ball movement.

    With that being said he still thinks Iverson is one of the best 76ers ever and is a great player but he sees some of flaws in Iverson's game that you mentioned and I agree with those. He also makes sure to remind me all the time that Iverson is a terrific player but that he couldn't hold a candle to Jerry West or some of the other legendary shooting guards of all-time but he does think Iverson is a special player.

    I always seem to defend Iverson on this board but that is mostly just when people say he is overrated or he sucks etc.,, he isn't my favorite player on the 76ers because some of the reasons you mentioned I prefer guys like Theo Ratliff or Eric Snow or on the current 76ers roster I like Korver and Iguodala who is as complete a player you will find for a rookie with today's young players he is a throwback and doesn't force things and lets the game come to him. Also I'm a quiet person by nature and playing baseball growing up I was blessed with great god given talent but I was always humble about my ability and actually a little bit shy so I prefer athletes with humility and don't care for the chest bumping or hands to the ear antics of Iverson or the times when he acts unprofessional and refuses to play because he isn't starting etc.,,,

    I wanted the 76ers to trade Iverson this summer. To me it just didn't make sense to keep him with all the other young players they have on the team and I didn't care for his antics last season. They aren't winning a championship any time soon and with Iverson's skills diminishing I thought this summer was the perfect time to move in a different direction and unload him but O'Brien wanted the opportunity to coach him.
    Me too.

  23. #23
    3ptmiller
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    DAMN DIPPERDUNK.. Why not write a book? anyways.. if you want my opinion i will make it Short and quick..
    Allen Iverson is a disgusting scatter-shot, ball hogging, 40% shooting, no conscience having, doesn't think practice is important, blemish on the league, most injurys trying to play with giants and overdribbling midget!

  24. #24
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    DD you defended Iverson very well and I read every word. I never have any trouble with long posts if the writer is making points and you were.

    As for me personaly I don't like Iverson as a human being, but he can play ball.

    Can't say I'm like Peck and hate him though.

  25. #25
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    Actually to clarify I don't hate him as a person, I hate him as a basketball player.

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