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Thread: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    So I’m walking out of the game once again on another high that only comes with another Pacers victory and I am going towards the normal green trash can to meet up with my fellow Pacers brothers & sisters. I’m jubilant on top of the world and ready to join in some post game merriment and exultation of our beloved team when I come across Hicks who looks like the visage of death standing there.

    In a quandary as to why he looked so sour I was going to ask if he was unhappy at some incident in his life or if he was suffering from gas. He proceeded to tell me how bad he thought this was. Well at first I was confused as all get out, how bad what was as we had just beaten a good solid team. But before we could go on high octane once again decided to ruin our spot by playing their damn drums in the hallway (God that is irritating) so by this time Gnome & the Mrs. Have arrived and we begin to wander our way down to the window by the practice court when en route to there Gnome tells me he is very disappointed.

    Again, stunned I ask in what? He tells me he is disappointed in Roy.

    You could have knocked me over with a feather. In fact by the time Seth, BillS & Mrs. And Trader Joe had arrived they were all either disheartened or in BillS case downright despondent.

    I was beside myself, how was it that I was the optimistic upbeat person of the bunch. Now to be fair Trader Joe was supportive of the incident but did believe that there would be repercussions.

    I tried to console the group, BillS was already writing the epithet for the season, but I wasn’t really getting anywhere. By the time I had to leave I wanted to contact the local suicide hotline and tell them to be on the look out. They all left down and depressed and I was ready to go home and write Klingon Opera’s about the night that Roy Hibberts testicles actually dropped.

    Since it didn’t work on them let me bring it here.

    Roy Hibbert & I ride together!

    Eff the league.

    If it wasn’t for the fact that I don’t want to lose him for the Clippers game I would say that a one game suspension for Roy Hibbert will do nothing but raise his street cred as the kids would say.

    Golden State was getting pummeled; in fact I’ll go ahead and say it. Take away Curry’s sweet sweet shot and this would have been another beat down of Biblical proportions and there was nothing they could do about it.

    Now being competitors they didn’t like the thumping they were taking and decided that the only retort to our physical domination, since the referee crew were not going to fall for their flopping, was to be physical in return.

    They don’t have the horses to be physical and therefore when push came to shove they actually decided to push & shove. Fair enough, their men & I respect that.

    David Lee decided to take umbrage with Roy’s bumping him off of the box, good for him. Stand up for yourself & I’m sure Mark Jackson appreciates your effort.

    BTW, kudos to Mark Jackson for changing the culture of that team. They really do play defense now and to go along with the shooting touch from their back court they will have a few good years ahead of them.

    Anyway back to Roy & Lee. Once Lee decided to give Roy a two arm shove Roy in the blink of an eye gave him one back. First and foremost I didn’t think Roy had it in him, normally this will evoke a “hey” response from Roy. But for whatever reason tonight he decided that he had taken enough.

    Lee bumped back and the melee was on.

    The next thing I see is Roy shoving a Warriors player over, it ends up being Curry but I couldn’t tell that at the time, and all I want to do is stand up and yell Qapla!!!!!

    Then there was some shoving and running about and then David West, as Hicks said I described it, cleared out the section as though he were Sauron knocking soldiers around with his Mace.

    All in all I was having a good time. People lets not forget who one of my favorite Pacers is, a knock down drag out fight is just part of a nights work back in the day.

    Look nobody did anything dirty here, heck I’m not even mad at the Warriors and in fact I really respect what Lee said after the game about everybody was playing hard and it was just all left on the court.

    This was nothing; this wouldn’t have even been news at all if it wasn’t for the ghost of idiots past. By idiots I mean the members of the team who gave us the bad image.

    I know several of you guys are ready to jump off of a bridge or something because of the fear of the image of the brawl and how people will never want to come to our games or whatever.

    Let me talk you off of the ledge.

    Let us all remember one thing; the local fans supported the team lock, stock and Stephen Jackson’s smoking barrel after the brawl. I know because I was one of the very few who was trying to say that our team was in the wrong that night. Believe me I was crucified for that belief.

    But the locals came out and supported the next home game vs. the Magic like it was game 7 in the playoffs.

    The fan base did not turn on the team because of the brawl, in fact we as a city and area whether we like to admit it out loud or not like a good scuffle. Now I have no problem admitting it but people of higher caliber (read that as almost anybody) probably would.

    The locals turned on the team for episode after episode of legal miscues, off court issues, injuries and then when Artest demanded the trade it all but collapsed.

    Here is why that won’t happen this time.

    First these aren’t the same group of players. There is no history of bad behavior, there is nobody that has been labeled a malcontent and there hasn’t been a single police report filed.

    In fact these guys are either perceived as dull or good guys. That other group had already even before the brawl had the fan base turn against them some. Jackson was already getting some boo’s from the home crowd in his short tenure due to him cursing at Rick when he was taken out of a game, Tinsley was already running thin with people because of his inability to stay on the floor and yes there were even some people who took issue with Artest.

    None of that his here this time.

    Oh sure somebody is going to say that the locals don’t care they are just looking for an excuse, etc.

    Let’s get a grip for a min. The people who are going to say that were going to say that no matter what. They didn’t buy Pacers tickets in the past, they don’t buy them at present and they will not buy Pacers tickets in the future.

    The local news media will not cover this the same way, again different cast of characters.

    This will blow over and IMO it will endear Roy and West and others to the fans that were there tonight and watched the game. They saw nobody did anything crazy and they saw that just like with Danny the other night this team is a unit and will be there for one another.

    Hell I couldn’t be more proud of the Pacers than I am right now.

    In fact look at us we’ve spent this entire time talking about this and have kind of overlooked the big picture.
    WE WON!!!!!!

    Let’s do some grades.

    David West: A++

    S olomon
    H ercules
    A tlas
    Z eus
    A chilles
    M ercury

    Paul George: A

    He is now averaging 10.5 ppg against the Warriors this season. Actually kind of started out rough but when he kicked it on, well there was just nothing they could do to stop him.

    Roy Hibbert: A++

    He was having a very good game on the floor before he ascended Mount Olympus and attained Godhood. Don’t be ashamed Roy, hold your head high and don’t take crap from anyone. I’m not advocating dirty play or even being overly physical but don’t back down.

    George Hill: A

    He decided to play Curry in a first half game of H-O-R-S-E matching him shot for shot in the second quarter, but then George has other team mates who can do something so in the second half he did the smart thing and rode the horse that is David West to victory. BTW, Curry’s shot making had nothing to do with bad defense by Hill. Dude was just hitting crap with a lightning fast release. George had great defense and controlled the ball very well.

    Lance Stephenson: B

    Just didn’t have the best night in the world from the field but still contributed to the win and I am certain he had something to do with the increase in chippiness as the game went on.

    Tyler Hansbrough: C-

    Ugh, whatever happened to his face up 15’ jump shot? Am I dreaming or at one point in time a couple of years ago didn’t he hit that shot on occasion? C- is really kind of generous but he did play some really good defense on a couple of possession.

    Danny Granger: C

    Lord this is going to be rough to watch. You can see he still knows how to get to where he wants to go and he still can get there. Converting a shot though? Well that just hasn’t happened yet. He still does good things on the floor and I was really surprised tonight to see how much off the ball movement he was doing on offense. Clearly they were trying to drag other players off of West and Paul by running Danny towards the basket in an effort to open up the shot for them. Defense was decent tonight but man is that shot putrid.

    Ian Mahinmi: C

    I’m not sure why I wasn’t more happy with him than I was but it just seemed that the old butter fingers seemed to be in effect again tonight and honestly I didn’t think he did all that good with staying with his man. Still though it’s nice to have a legitimate 7’ player coming off of the bench & hey we may need him to be ready to start on Thursday.

    D.J. Augustine: C-

    To quote Jim O’Brien, “irrelevant”.

    Orlando Johnson: D

    Certainly not the night he had vs. the Pistons.

    My God people we are striding he world like a colossus and I won’t hear anything about bad times. We are tearing through teams like Godzilla through Tokyo and these aren’t bottom feeder teams.

    Get up, rejoice, this is what we sat through 4 soul sucking years of Satan for. This is the payoff, well at least until we hang that banner next fall.



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Peck. I just have to take issue with you. When I was up there for a couple of preseason games, I thought the drums in the hall were really cool old school.

    Everything else you said works for me.
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Okay this is too good to pass up.

    Here is the opening paragraph to the Oakland Tribune's write up on tonight's game.

    http://www.insidebayarea.com/warrior...rs-loss-pacers

    INDIANAPOLIS -- The Warriors had their three-game winning streak snapped, their feelings hurt and their resolve tested by the Indiana Pacers.

    My only reply to that is this....



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    It just hurts that we could potentially lose a game vis-a-vis the Knicks because of this--our guys and their guys might get suspended at least one game and the Warriors play the Knicks next.

    It's clear that Roy has a little bit more of a fire in his belly now but, this incident was just a sign of this, not a cause. Not having it would, all else equal, be better than having it.

    The way I see it, it's a bit unfortunate but, as we tend to do this year, we'll persevere and move on. We signed Ian for exactly these types of contingencies.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    That being said, this is my favorite quote of the year:

    Seriously, I didn't even feel him. He just ran up on me. I don't know. It's between me and David Lee, and (Curry) wants to get involved. ... I don't want to start anything with someone that's smaller than me. If I have somebody my size, we'll talk it out like men. ... I probably did toss the little guy to the side.
    http://www.insidebayarea.com/warrior...rs-loss-pacers

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    I don't think of this as bad as some would. No heavy punching involved, no fan altercation involved, no riot ensued after the scuffle, and the game actually ended peacefully after that. The possible Hibbert suspension (and West also) is the only bad thing I can see happening from here. It's a game well played by both squads, and the Pacers are just rolling right now. Double-digit margin of wins since the ASB, now that's what I'm talking about! Hopefully, Danny can get into the mix as soon as possible and make this team the best in the East come playoff time.

    Anyway, for as long as it's just one game (suspension I mean), it won't hurt the team as much. We have our backups there to do the job that those 2 might miss, and history shows that our backups play well with the other starting guys. I still expect a win over the Clippers regardless of what happens with Hibbert and West.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Thanks Peck I agree with every word and came here after the game and had no idea that there would be such a dire response. This little tickle fight changes nothing, suspensions or not. This is strong willed mentally tough team that won't back down.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    That being said, this is my favorite quote of the year:



    http://www.insidebayarea.com/warrior...rs-loss-pacers

    Yes. Yes he did. Like a rag doll.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Sorry, screwed up trying to post an image. I was initially concerned, but the public reaction seems benign. Kravitz article helps, as does the impeccable character of the team.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    When I walked out of the arena bowl and seen Peck & Hicks talking, my face was so long I would've tripped over my bottom lip thinking Roy lost his friggin mind. Discussing it didn't help neither me or the Mrs. It wasn't until I got home and seen the video that I changed my mind and mood. Roy was completely justified in his actions... If it was just Lee and Hibbs with no intervention from the pip squeak brigade, this is just a typical NBA dust-up with double techs assessed. Roy didn't ask Curry to bum rush him... twice and he sure didn't ask to be shoved from behind by Klay Thompson & Jarret Jack.

    I guess I was worried more about the franchise revisiting the court of public opinion with the local media presenting the "facts". However, the local media outlets and especially the one that I work for has decided to treat this "scrum" like the fart in the wind that it is. It'll suck probably losing one maybe two of our guys for Thursday, but I'll take that knowing my man's balls finally dropped for all of us to see!

    Great win!
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Yes, and if suspensions are forthcoming, then Vogel will invoke some sort of "us against the world" or "3 games in 3 days" motivational tactic that just brings the team together even more and we win the damn game! Worse will be if Curry is suspended for the Knicks. He deserves to be, but it hurts us in the long run, because they are a good team that could beat the Knicks.

    I can't seem to post pictures because I am apparently too stupid, but I was trying to post two "we ride together" pics. I love the juxtaposition of the Granger first bucket picture, where the team is just exuberant and greets him on the sidelines, vs. the picture of the 5 guys walking off the court after this latest "brawl." The Warriors are walking back to the bench as individuals, while the Pacers starting 5 looks like they are ready to storm a castle. This TEAM is just fun to watch.

    Look, they play good, Indiana basketball. They share the rock and play with all-out effort on D. They are high character, articulate guys that work hard to contribute to the community, while working equally hard on their craft. When Vogel said smashmouth, he meant SMASHMOUTH. This fight is a non-issue, because the team won't let it be a lingering issue. Only disappointing thing for me is that Larry isn't officially part of the team to receive the credit and enjoy the ride.

    I don't know if they will beat the heat or not, but they will play them, and they will give them a run for their money. The fans will come, and I am going to enjoy the ride.

    I've been a lurker daily since the exodus from RATS, and frankly don't like posting that much. But I like this board very much because of the excellent moderation and supremely gifted and balanced writers (though it would help if Count55 would quit distracting himself on other sites and if Putnam would return, because I miss reading their stuff).

    As someone wrote earlier, this is the payoff for the years of he!!. I am ready to enjoy the ride, win or lose.

    Now, how do we pay to keep David West?

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    I need to correct you on one little thing though; it WAS the NBA international game, live in 81 countries around the world (NBA TV INTERNATIONAL)

    I personally like that, but who knows what Herrn Sternn thinks of it.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Sad to see how soft the NBA's gotten. Couple big guys start to get into it and people think a war broke out. The officials only escalated it by sprinting in whistles blowing and shoving. Then Curry goes at Roy -- big mistake -- and Thompson and Jack (who I used to love as a Pacer) decide to send the show into the front row. This was common in the Miller/Ewing era. Now Roy will likely get suspended for defending himself and being BA. *sigh*
    "A winner is someone who recognizes his God-given talents, works his tail off to develop them into skills, and uses these skills to accomplish his goals." Larry Bird

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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    As much as I don't want to talk about it, I need to say one thing. I think the notion that the city did not turn on the team because of the brawl is simply wrong. I too was at the next game after the brawl and I remember the atmosphere and I remember how Pacers fans stayed behind the team during the aftermath. And I remember when it became a us vs them mentally for most pacers fans - us against the NBA.

    But Peck, where you are wrong was the long term impact of the brawl and the extremely negative impact the brawl had on causal Pacers fans. I do not think you can under estimate how damaging the brawl was. I mean it is still damaging to this day. Sure the subsequent off the court activities and trade demands and losing really hurt the franchise, but the brawl was always a huge negative factor as well. Sort of like a silent killer. Virus that gets into the air that cannot ever be gotten rid of.

    Having said that, last night's melee was really nothing and I don't expect any short term or long term impact.

    Watching NBATV's post game coverage I did like that Greg Anthony and Chris Webber boith said the pacers are better than their record. Also they didn't seem to think the melee was a big deal
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 02-27-2013 at 08:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    I guess I was worried more about the franchise revisiting the court of public opinion with the local media presenting the "facts". However, the local media outlets and especially the one that I work for has decided to treat this "scrum" like the fart in the wind that it is. It'll suck probably losing one maybe two of our guys for Thursday, but I'll take that knowing my man's balls finally dropped for all of us to see!

    Great win!
    My thoughts exactly. I tweeted that I didn't care about any pending suspensions to Roy, but I was more worried about the news overblowing the scene.

    Of course when I got home from the game the sports part of the news was starting and they blew it off.

    Deadspin and ESPN had their day with it, though. "Brawl"

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    As much as I don't want to talk about it, I need to say one thing. I think the notion that the city did npot turn on the team because of the brawl is simply wrong. I too was at the next game after the brawl and I remember the atmosphere and I remember how Pacers fans stayed behind the team during the aftermath. And I remember when it became a us vs them mentally for most pacers fans - us against the NBA.

    But Peck, where you are wrong was the long term impact of the brawl and the extremely negative impact the brawl had on causal Pacers fans. I do not think you can under estimate how damaging the brawl was. I mean it is still damaging to this day. Sure the subsequent off the court activities and trade demands and losing really hurt the franchise, but the brawl was always a huge negative factor as well. Sort of like a silent killer. Virus that gets into the air that cannot ever be gotten rid of.

    Having said that, last night's melee was really nothing and I don't expect any short term or long term impact.

    Watching NBATV's post game coverage I did like that Greg Anthony and Chris Webber boith said the pacers are better than their record. Also they didn't seem to think the melee was a big deal
    I agree that the brawl was devastating. Remember, we still had Reggie on the team after the brawl. That was enough to still get fans to come out, especially after he announced his retirement. IIRC, we had excellent attendance down the stretch that season because people wanted to get one last look at Reggie. Plus he was playing well and leading the team on an inspiring run with Dale Davis starting right beside him like the old days. Reggie moved the brawl to the back burner for a few months. I think the magnitude of the brawl really set in the next season. Reggie and Davis were gone, and Artest had the trade demand. That's when you could really tell that a new dark era of Pacer basketball had arrived. The brawl symbolically defined that era.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    I was in line with Gnome's thinking. In person, I thought it looked awful. The replay definitely changed my mind and I'm proud of our guys for sticking together/standing up for themselves.

    However, and this is the annoying part, I've already been asked by 4 people at work about the Pacers fight last night. I hate that we don't get the attention we deserve for how good we are, but when this happens everyone seems to know about it.
    Passion. Pride. Patience. Pacers

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    I loved it. When you play that physical, guys are gonna hit back. That big shoulder bump between Lee and Hibbert looked like Godzilla and Mothra going at it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    I can say that after seeing the local media reaction to this I am off the ledge. I am still very upset at the escalation of the description in ESPN's coverage in the early hours after the game, but I think that since no one else bit on the hype they scaled it back later. This is, however, a perfect example of a PTSD flashback - something happens that is much smaller scale but similar and it evokes the same intensity of reaction. I can only hope it only does this to the die-hards who watched the end of a precarious championship run that dark day in 2004.

    I will also observe that I have never seen Peck so happy and excited after a game. Remember that we only moved back to Indy and started having STs in 2008 - prior to that all my interactions were via PD and its predecessor. Most games Peck is at most "animated", this one I thought he was going to rip off a Sam Young backflip and start doing the banana dance himself.

    Everyone seems to have calmed down but it remains to be seen what Stern Measures (sic) will be taken to keep this kind of thing from getting out of hand. The damaged cynic in me expects suspensions for Roy and West, possibly multiple games, and nothing for Curry or Lee.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    It's very frustrating to watch Hibbert find a way to shake off some of his nice guy softness, and for it to be perceived as a bad thing. My goodness, not only has the NBA game changed, but boy are we sensitive about "kerfluffles" here in this state. The brawl was eight years ago. The moment we start focusing on kicking a** on the court, and ignoring the casual fans... is the moment we start winning and bringing those casual fans back.

    I suspect that Roy will perform better from here on out on the court. I bet that a one game suspension, in the big scheme of things, will be worth it simply to see him play with an edge, which is all he really needs at this point.

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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchbr View Post
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    . The officials only escalated it by sprinting in whistles blowing and shoving.
    careful there. One huge mistake the refs made in the real brawl was staying out of it. Something I will never forget or forgive. To clarify: I am not suggesting the refs should have gone up into the stands or break things up once Ron runs up into the stands, but the refs let tempers fester for a good minute or two prior to the cup being thrown - horrible job

    In fact last night one of the refs was also a ref in the real brawl. Now it is the refs job to get into the middle of it and break it up.

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  40. #23
    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    All I kept thinking during it all is "Now Roy can keep his big butt upright." He has horrible balance, until he gets into a scrum and then can absorb literally everything and everyone one shoved at him.

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  42. #24
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    In person I thought it was bad, but I didn't care. Well, I was bummed about being shorthanded for the Clippers (I was sure we had a few 1 games suspensions coming) but I was still positive about it. I was right behind the basket so it looked a little scary, but it was great to see Roy stand up and not back down. I loved the team coming together with zero hesitation and I love that the Pacers get other teams so worked up that they can't take it anymore.

    I just can't figure out how I could possibly love this team any more than I do.

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  44. #25
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thought's: Defiance (pummeling the Warriors)

    at what point would we hear about suspensions if any are forthcoming?

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