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Thread: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    That's simply not true. Indy has a "Chain City USA" reputation, and it certainly has a lot of chains as does any metro with 1 million plus residents, but there are a TON of unique, locally owned mom and pop type joints. You just have to know where to look. West 38th street has an incredible selection of ethnic restaurants (Ethiopian, Peruvian, Cuban, etc). There's that great Greek Islands on S. Meridian, as well as Santorini in Fountain Square. There is a Turkish place on S. East St near Lilly that is incredible. There's a Moroccan place just north of downtown. There's Kountry Kitchen on N. College. I could go on and on and on about unique little restaurants in Indy. Downtown is certainly filled with chains, but if you get away from downtown then you can find some great unique joints. The Indy restaurant scene is always improving.
    The rep isn't a national thing only, Cowherd was talking about what LOCALS say when you visit. The average guy in "pick a suburb" Indianapolis does NOT think about the places you mention. As a downtown resident I deal with these reactions all the time. My wife was walking over to Mesh with another downtown friend and a lady from out by Avon. The Avon lady sincerely asked "are we safe, we should have a weapon just in case". From Lockerbie to freaking Mesh on Mass Ave. You might need "cute tiny dog" repellent, but a weapon? No, this isn't Broad Ripple where people get attacked, this is downtown.

    So those same people would never dream of going to Fountain Square or downtown. I could take a poll at all the major malls and ask them if they knew where Saffron Cafe was and 99% or more wouldn't even know WTF you were talking about (the Moroccan place you mentioned). It's not safe in these areas and why would I drive there when I can eat at this great new place called Chedders, or Bonefish Grill, or one of the Satan Trio (Appleby's, Red Lobster, Olive Garden).

    And Kountry Kitchen? No, I assure you that the average "outside 465" citizen wouldn't even be willing to get out of the car at Kountry Kitchen. (personally I'm not a soul food person and get my Chicken/Waffles at Maxines since its good and closer).
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 02-22-2013 at 05:00 PM.

  2. #177
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Sorry but this article REALLY pisses me off, there are too many outright lies, distortions, and willful ignorance here to ignore. Take the kids out of the room before reading this. Seriously **** this guy.

    I looked for tickets for Friday night’s game against Detroit. Seats below the concourse are $90 minimum. Yes, I know you say that I could probably find a cheaper ticket from a scalper, but that’s not really helping you out. And I could sit up above…
    What a load of garbage. The author is clearly looking for an excuse to present $90 as the minimum "realistic" price of a ticket, but this falls apart pretty fast under scrutiny. And there are other factors at play besides profit on each ticket anyway.

    A casual fan shopping for a ticket isn't going to intentionally pay full price just to "help out" the team. Give me a ****ing break. This is a false argument anyway - even if you got into the building for FREE. Aside from the fact that fans will at least spend a little $ at the game on average (food, drinks, merch, parking), every single butt in the seat improves the quality of the product for everyone (louder/more visible/more exciting crowd), and benefits the Pacers' PR in a big way (word of mouth, press, perception of the team being popular etc). There is definitely a cumulative positive effect to the Pacers of having higher attendance aside from profits from sales. To say that more people going to games, at ANY price, is "not really helping" the Pacers is disingenuous at best, and the author must know this.

    EDIT: FYI when I go to a Warriors game it's a minimum $120 to get a back-row lower-level seat. On STUBHUB. And they have great attendance even though they've made the playoffs once in like 20 years.

    But you do realize what the game looks like on an HD TV in my basement, right? Are you really making the case that the cheap seats are a smart play? For the cost of taking a family of four to the game, I can buy a new Samsung, and I get to watch Brooke Olzendam.
    First, this is a league-wide issue so it has no bearing on the Pacers' ranking in attendance compared to other teams. They have HDTVs in OKC and Portland I believe.

    Second, saying you could buy an HDTV nice enough to top the in-game experience for the same price as taking a family of four to the game is an outright LIE. Even cowardly, as the author makes no attempt to show any numbers backing this up (taking the $90 ticket number which I already debunked, you'd be able to buy a $360 TV. Yeah I'll bet the game looks ****ing awesome in your basement with four people crowding around your 32" POS Samsung. Also I guess your $100/month cable TV bill is free and not part of your price calculation. Have fun.)

    Third, Colts games are much more expensive, and the seats are much worse, yet this issue doesn't seem to affect their attendance… so yeah.

    EDIT: I just looked up tickets for the Warriors game next Tuesday and $90 gets you TENTH ROW BASELINE SEATS. 10th ****ing row compared to watching in your basement on a 32 inch TV with your 3 other family members. Yeah what-****ing-ever.

    Plus, I don’t think it’s fair for you to measure my feelings for you based on attendance. You are averaging 80 percent of the seats filled. What kind of business model are you running where 80 percent of capacity not only isn’t good enough, it brings national scrutiny?
    Another flat-out ******** argument. NOT ALL ARENAS ARE THE SAME SIZE MORON. You build an arena that is appropriate for your sized market. Yeah let's just take the Palace in Auburn Hills at 22,076 and compare that to BLF at 18,165 (an 18% smaller capacity) as if they are equal. Yeah ok.

    EDIT: No one is saying that the Pacers need to be one of the top draws in the league. Middle-of-the-road attendance is something like 17,000 right? That would be AMAZING average attendance for the Pacers, I think they only did that in 99-00, the Fieldhouse's first year, when we went to the Finals. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    If you sold 3,000 more tickets for 41 home games at $50 a ticket, that nets you around $6 million, maybe a little more after you sell $9 beers. That’s chump change.
    I already debunked this above. There are many many more benefits to the Pacers increasing attendance beyond the direct profit on ticket sales.

    Can’t we say we love you by building you a new fieldhouse and giving you money to operate it? We just voted to give you an additional $10 million of taxpayer money to go with the original $33.5 million. You seem a little needy.
    This argument applies to almost every market in the country, just like the HDTV argument. It has no bearing on our ranking in the league attendance-wise. And the Pacers deal is WAYYYYY better than the Colts one.

    Please don’t trade in your strip club handgun for a metaphoric one that says we need to support you, or else.
    I seriously want to punch this ****er in the face after reading this. So I guess Marvin Harrison got a pass for being an alleged murderer, but a strip club incident from seven years ago involving team members that have been LONG gone is relevant to the discussion, got it. What willful ignorance. Ugh.

    And by the way, do you know the last time you gave us a single digit draft pick? Probably not. We were much younger then. It was 1989 and George McCloud. I know it’s not your fault. In fact, it’s because you haven’t tanked that we have been stuck in mediocrity. I guess we used all our civic good fortune with the Colts, but it would be nice to get a Kevin Durant every once in a while.
    There are dozens if not hundreds of PD threads here about the value of high draft picks/tanking, I'm not taking that bait. FOUR of our starters are current or former All-Stars. And I guess 3rd in the East is "mediocrity," OK. Got it.

    Also how many teams have a Kevin Durant? So you have to have a top 2-3 player in a league of THIRTY TEAMS to draw fans? Well, I guess that's what it took for the Colts, until they had Manning their attendance sucked too. This says WAY more about Indy fans than it does about the team.

    Finally–and this is hard for me to say, because I really do like you–but you have a certain Washington Generals feel. I’m not talking about the Hansbrough brothers. I mean that there’s a big dead end ahead. Oh, I know you were up 2-1 on the Heat last spring, and you have beaten them twice in the regular season. But you are Lebron’s *****. I don’t know if he is better than Michael Jordan, but I know we won’t be going to the finals until he retires or takes his talents to the White Sox. You say this is pessimistic? At the All Star break, Vegas oddsmakers had the Pacers at 25-1 to win the championship. You have the eighth-best record in the league. In any other sport with this resume, you’d have better odds. But Vegas knows how the NBA works.

    So I can emotionally and financially invest in you now and be rewarded in May by watching Joey Crawford treat Dywane Wade like he’s porcelain. Let’s be frank: you are regular-season programming and playoff fodder.
    And finally the author reveals himself as the fair-weather douchebag non-fan that he is. We do better against the eventual NBA champion than ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE ENTIRE PLAYOFFS, including OKC (with the amazing Kevin Durant etc) who lost in 5 games, but that's not good enough to have better than second-to-last attendance in the league the next season, got it. We beat Lebron's team at home twice by double digits. Not good enough. We have to be better than one of the greatest players of all time. Got it ok.

    I’m sorry if that hurts. Yes, we have a chance. Yes, you’ve changed. Yes, it turns me on when you embarass the Knicks. Yes, I promise to go to a game. Yes, I like you. But let’s just be friends.
    Here's something that might hurt: GO **** YOURSELF. Stay the hell away from my team and my arena, we don't WANT your kind here. Seriously if this is truly representative of the casual potential "fan" then Indy has serious serious problems and quite frankly might not (as a market) deserve an NBA team. I mean wow this pisses me off even more than the comment threads on recent IndyStar attendance articles. Just flat-out lies and willful ignorance.

    I need to go punch something now.
    Last edited by rabid; 02-22-2013 at 05:24 PM. Reason: typos and stuff grrr

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  4. #178
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    And like I said, look at how citizens reaction to the Al Unser Jr saga.

    What are you talking about? That legal trouble was in 2002, years after his Indy heyday. How were citizens supposed to react, exactly? Were we supposed to stand outside of 16th and Georgetown and boycott Unser? It's not like Al Unser Jr. had 41 special "Al Unser Jr. races" at the Speedway every year that citizens were still showing up to.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    I live outside 465 and you are correct I would not get out of my car at Kountry Kitchen - at least not again, the food was horrible.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    32" POS Samsung.
    You did great, except for the Samsung comment.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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  10. #181
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    True, but if you don't like the Pacers beacuse of their black players, do you really think those same people are going to like the Colts because they cant see their face through the helme?

    Racists are dumb, but I think they're smart enough to realize that a minority is still a minority even if they're wearing a hat.
    But you are thinking in an "active racist" way. Sure, the KKK wouldn't be fooled. But I'm talking about the subconscious "there's something about that guy I don't like" stuff that still lingers. People of different colors, cultures, and nationalities still have some xenophobic tendencies.

    When Obama won the in-game Pacers poll (Family Feud game with fan) it got a definite "unfavorable" reaction from the fans that night. That's the kind of cultural difference I mean, and fans are aware of it. They and the players aren't the same types of people. There is something to the massive positive reaction Tyler got his first 2-3 seasons despite just being "okay" and certainly not better than Danny or Roy.



    And look, it's fair to say that a typical black American might feel really uncomfortable at a polo match. Of course I would too, but I'm guessing not as much. NASCAR is struggling to bring in the non-white fan just as much as the Pacers are struggling to bring in fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    And like I said, look at how citizens reaction to the Al Unser Jr saga.
    I really don't understand why you think there should be no difference in the public reaction to a guy who basically grew up in the public eye and began a gradual slide into trouble vs. a guy most fans didn't know from Adam who was already in trouble before the first time he set foot in town.

    It's not racism. It's family.

    I mean, I get the point you are trying to make, but it's a bad example.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    The rep isn't a national thing only, Cowherd was talking about what LOCALS say when you visit. The average guy in "pick a suburb" Indianapolis does NOT think about the places you mention. As a downtown resident I deal with these reactions all the time. My wife was walking over to Mesh with another downtown friend and a lady from out by Avon. The Avon lady sincerely asked "are we safe, we should have a weapon just in case". From Lockerbie to freaking Mesh on Mass Ave. You might need "cute tiny dog" repellent, but a weapon? No, this isn't Broad Ripple where people get attacked, this is downtown.

    So those same people would never dream of going to Fountain Square or downtown. I could take a poll at all the major malls and ask them if they knew where Saffron Cafe was and 99% or more wouldn't even know WTF you were talking about (the Moroccan place you mentioned). It's not safe in these areas and why would I drive there when I can eat at this great new place called Chedders, or Bonefish Grill, or one of the Satan Trio (Appleby's, Red Lobster, Olive Garden).

    And Kountry Kitchen? No, I assure you that the average "outside 465" citizen wouldn't even be willing to get out of the car at Kountry Kitchen. (personally I'm not a soul food person and get my Chicken/Waffles at Maxines since its good and closer).


    Most any city has a couple of famous restaurants that they pimp to tourists. When you go to NYC, they tell you to try the Carnegie Deli (overrated) or Katz's. Pushing people towards a "famous" restaurant isn't just an Indy thing.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    But you are thinking in an "active racist" way. Sure, the KKK wouldn't be fooled. But I'm talking about the subconscious "there's something about that guy I don't like" stuff that still lingers. People of different colors, cultures, and nationalities still have some xenophobic tendencies.

    When Obama won the in-game Pacers poll (Family Feud game with fan) it got a definite "unfavorable" reaction from the fans that night. That's the kind of cultural difference I mean, and fans are aware of it. They and the players aren't the same types of people. There is something to the massive positive reaction Tyler got his first 2-3 seasons despite just being "okay" and certainly not better than Danny or Roy.



    And look, it's fair to say that a typical black American might feel really uncomfortable at a polo match. Of course I would too, but I'm guessing not as much. NASCAR is struggling to bring in the non-white fan just as much as the Pacers are struggling to bring in fans.
    I reacted unfavorably to that Obama poll because the players voted him the greatest president of all time lol.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    See the reaction to Harbaugh's Colts.

    All of your points about the Colts are extremely dated. Every piece of evidence that you have to use is at least 10 years old.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    When Obama won the in-game Pacers poll (Family Feud game with fan) it got a definite "unfavorable" reaction from the fans that night. That's the kind of cultural difference I mean, and fans are aware of it. They and the players aren't the same types of people. There is something to the massive positive reaction Tyler got his first 2-3 seasons despite just being "okay" and certainly not better than Danny or Roy.
    So the only thing you need to know in order to label someone racist is that they disagree with a black man's politics.


    This is getting more and more sad as it continues. I'm glad you feel comfortable calling a complete stranger a racist, just because they spend money differently than you. Don't go watch black guys play a sport? Racist.

    There must be a whole lot of white racists since NHL is doing so awful. Falling attendance at NASCAR? Racism.

    Explains everything.
    Last edited by Since86; 02-22-2013 at 05:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I live outside 465 and you are correct I would not get out of my car at Kountry Kitchen - at least not again, the food was horrible.

    I just ate there today and thought it was delicious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    The rep isn't a national thing only, Cowherd was talking about what LOCALS say when you visit. The average guy in "pick a suburb" Indianapolis does NOT think about the places you mention. As a downtown resident I deal with these reactions all the time. My wife was walking over to Mesh with another downtown friend and a lady from out by Avon. The Avon lady sincerely asked "are we safe, we should have a weapon just in case". From Lockerbie to freaking Mesh on Mass Ave. You might need "cute tiny dog" repellent, but a weapon? No, this isn't Broad Ripple where people get attacked, this is downtown.

    So those same people would never dream of going to Fountain Square or downtown. I could take a poll at all the major malls and ask them if they knew where Saffron Cafe was and 99% or more wouldn't even know WTF you were talking about (the Moroccan place you mentioned). It's not safe in these areas and why would I drive there when I can eat at this great new place called Chedders, or Bonefish Grill, or one of the Satan Trio (Appleby's, Red Lobster, Olive Garden).

    And Kountry Kitchen? No, I assure you that the average "outside 465" citizen wouldn't even be willing to get out of the car at Kountry Kitchen. (personally I'm not a soul food person and get my Chicken/Waffles at Maxines since its good and closer).
    And in almost any working class city in the country you'll find the same thing. There will be cultural areas that aren't attended by 90% of the non-urban population. Acting like the Indy suburbs are filled with the US's only bunch of chain mongers is both silly and begs the question of how the chains could exist if only Hoosiers go there.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    I know I've posted a ton on this subject (again), but it's worth noting that we've been walking all through really hot territory and had a pretty solid, serious debate on the subject (again).


    But as someone else mentioned, we aren't the demographic that needs to be convinced. We disagree on why fans aren't coming, but the fact is that are all paying attention and IMO that has a lot to do with our willingness to be reasonable and listen to the reasoning of others as we are doing here.

    It's common sense and obvious that the Pacers are a great entertainment investment now. This means, to me, that the people staying away aren't thinking in reasonable terms. There is some hang-up, which is what these thread debate is about, that is not based on logical reasons. That's why we get frustrated by the list of reasons - price, winning, types of players, cost of food, start time, etc. None of those really stand up to hard scrutiny which tells me that the real reason is not something we will ever be able to debate away with these non-fans.

    Maybe it's just something we have to accept and live with. I know a lot of you guys have already chosen to not fret over it, and maybe that's for the best. Still sucks though.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So the only thing you need to know in order to label someone racist is that they disagree with a black man's politics.


    This is getting more and more sad as it continues. I'm glad you feel comfortable calling a complete stranger a racist, just because they spend money differently than you. Don't go watch black guys play a sport? Racist.

    There must be a whole lot of white racists since NHL is doing so awful. Falling attendance at NASCAR? Racism.

    Explains everything.
    Not to mention that the county the Pacers play in was won by Obama both times.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Seriously....Just....Win.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Pacers have been....by far....the dominant topic of sports radio this week. Really even over IU.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I just ate there today and thought it was delicious.
    what did you order. Maybe I got the wrong thing

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    what did you order. Maybe I got the wrong thing
    Dark meat fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy, collard greens (best I've ever had), and cornbread.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers View Post
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    Boy, I can't imagine why people would be reluctant to go sit next to quality Pacers fans such as yourself. If interaction with people like you and TinMan are what I'm missing by not going to games, I'll count myself lucky.
    It's a darn shame you don't consider yourself lucky to not meet me. I'm real fun. I never called anybody a lard ball or anything, I was just cracking wise. Besides, my comment was on the state of docility this generation(and mine) has become effected by. We'd rather get our human interaction canned and delivered to our living rooms 30 minutes at a time. Living life(actually living it) has become far too great a hassle, so we just avoid the hassle by not leaving our houses and glueing ourselves to the moving pictures machine. I never went after anyone personally, so don't lump me in with people like that.

    If you don't go to games because you want to avoid people like me, you shouldn't avoid the games cause I'm not there. I live one state over. I can't drive 200 miles in an hour and a half. I do go to games when I have the time and I've never met a mean person at a game.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    There is some hang-up, which is what these thread debate is about, that is not based on logical reasons. That's why we get frustrated by the list of reasons - price, winning, types of players, cost of food, start time, etc. .
    .
    See Seth that is what gets me... Start time is very important. Maybe you live so close you just walk on down to BLF 10 minutes before the game starts and you're good to go. If the Pacers played in Terre Haute at Hulman Center I'd be there every damn game. Time and distance is a factor even if we disagree. If the Pacers can't get enough fans in Indy then they need to bring them in from Greencastle, Rockville, Terre Haute, Anderson and any other reasonable distance town. And it is only reasonable if you can make it close to the start.

    Edit: I also know it works both ways. A later start time could be inconvenient for others who are attending games now and would not go if the game was later.
    Last edited by RWB; 02-22-2013 at 05:25 PM.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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  31. #197
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Let me tell y'all something. We win the next 5 before that Bulls game...the Fieldhouse will be full and it will be rocking and it won't be mostly Bulls fans and y'all can take it to the damned bank.
    8pm tip, national TV. I promise you it will be 90% P's fans and it will be full.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  33. #198
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Not to mention that the county the Pacers play in was won by Obama both times.
    So then... We should've sought a trade for Obama before the deadline. Maybe Granger for Obama? Or maybe a couple of bench players. Wait... Crap... woulda been a big problem matching salaries for the trade to work.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Granger would just be fake tough on terrorism. Bad idea.

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  36. #200
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I know I've posted a ton on this subject (again), but it's worth noting that we've been walking all through really hot territory and had a pretty solid, serious debate on the subject (again).


    But as someone else mentioned, we aren't the demographic that needs to be convinced. We disagree on why fans aren't coming, but the fact is that are all paying attention and IMO that has a lot to do with our willingness to be reasonable and listen to the reasoning of others as we are doing here.

    It's common sense and obvious that the Pacers are a great entertainment investment now. This means, to me, that the people staying away aren't thinking in reasonable terms. There is some hang-up, which is what these thread debate is about, that is not based on logical reasons. That's why we get frustrated by the list of reasons - price, winning, types of players, cost of food, start time, etc. None of those really stand up to hard scrutiny which tells me that the real reason is not something we will ever be able to debate away with these non-fans.

    Maybe it's just something we have to accept and live with. I know a lot of you guys have already chosen to not fret over it, and maybe that's for the best. Still sucks though.
    But youre wrong Seth...havent u been paying attention? Its all Samsungs fault.....

    And last week it was the fact Indy doesnt have this awestome mass-transit system...

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