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Thread: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

  1. #326
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Nothing says great competition like a statistically irrelevant sample size, where one game ends your season.
    "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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  3. #327
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by doubled View Post
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    I watched the Pacers through most the R. Miller years and after so it was probably 12 years of watching most games. I loved the excitement of the young guys when Miller left such as Bender/Harrington/Oneal/Artest even though it fell apart through injury (Bender) and head cases (Artest) but it was an exciting time to watch the young guys grow. Then Tinsley and Jackson and some others came in and totally made the Pacers unwatchable for me. So many times I heard Bird say that this is the offseason he makes serious changes but never did. Even last year the FO could have made a splash in FA or a trade but just got lesser players. I watch the Pacers very little but come on here and see what's new with the team and I'm glad the Pacers are doing well again but what keeps me away from watching the Pacers like I used to is that there is little star power on the team and I know people will say P.G. is a star in the making but to me it just seems like the FO has let the fans down for years and I just don't get to excited anymore about the Pacers because I just don't believe the FO is willing to do what it takes. I was a die hard Pacer/Colts fan and now I'm just a die hard hard Colts fan - The Colts FO seems to me to be able to try to put a winner on the field and I just think there's not that dedication from the Pacers! This is just my opinion and I like the Pacers but I just wish the Pacers would do more to show they are trying to put a championship team together such as a trade to bring in a quality player wether it be a starter/bench player.
    I'm sorry, you are grossly misinformed. You do not understand how the NBA works from a roster and FA standpoint. Which star power player was out there for the Pacers to obtain? Please enlighten us.

    You praise the Colts, but they put extremely flawed teams on the field for the majority of Manning's superstar tenure, and they cost the franchise multiple superbowl chances.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    Nothing says great competition like a statistically irrelevant sample size, where one game ends your season.
    To each their own. Some people like the underdog competing against Goliath. Butler going to the NCAA finals was a thrill for a lot of people.

    College ball is just a different experience. It's actually so different that guys doing great in college often don't pan out in the NBA. From Tyler Hansbrough to Mateen Cleaves, the leagues cannot be compared.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    You people and your professed love of college basketball are going to be the death of me.

    YOU DO NOT LOVE COLLEGE BASKETBALL. You love the atmosphere of big time division 1 (mostly east of the Mississippi) high production minor league games. I refuse to even say you like the basketball of it because universally when people talk about their love of college ball the actual last thing they ever talk about is the game itself. It's always some cliche of atmosphere, hustle, heart, desire, purity or whatever else they can say without just saying that they prefer the three point line is reduced so almost anyone can make it or that they prefer a longer shot clock, etc.

    Is the NBA game perfect, hell no.

    Look if you want me to list off the one giant turn off I have about the NBA it would be that driver/slasher players are overly protected and frankly depending on the player overly compensated with the ability to draw a foul.

    Sorry this post is directed at no one in general but I guess I just am on a personal mission to eradicate the notion that most people love College basketball.

    The difference between the so called lover of the college game and the lover of an NBA game is actually pretty simple to define.

    A fan of the NBA would be perfectly content to sit and watch a game between the Cavaliers & the Hornets while people who really only love the big 10, ACC, or whatever would probably not be able to sit and watch a regular season game between Whitworth & Emory. Oh sure if it was a tournament game, which is another phenom I have never understood, they would watch it but on a normal January night, no way in hell.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    I accept that people like that, but I will never understand it. Won't people be upset if IU gets bounced by some crappy team that they would crush in a series?
    "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Some people like the underdog competing against Goliath.
    I love that concept. That's one of the reasons that I love rooting for the Pacers.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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  11. #332
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    I accept that people like that, but I will never understand it. Won't people be upset if IU gets bounced by some crappy team that they would crush in a series?
    IU fans would be obviously, but college fans in general would be saying "oh man, the tournament is so awesome! anything can happen!" March Madness is a helluva lot of fun, I love it too, but a single elimination tournament is a terrible way to decide a champion.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    IU fans would be obviously, but college fans in general would be saying "oh man, the tournament is so awesome! anything can happen!" March Madness is a helluva lot of fun, I love it too, but a single elimination tournament is a terrible way to decide a champion.
    People love the NCAA tournament because of gambling as well. So many people fill out a bracket and root for their brackets, in addition to their teams. I've been at many a bar during the first two days of the tournament, and seen so many people with copies of their brackets with them.

    The NCAA tournament is great because of the upsets and the gambling component. I think the first two days of the NCAA tournament are the best two days in sports. The NCAA is trying to ruin it by adding more teams, but they're still great. That's the one time of year I watch college over the NBA.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    I accept that people like that, but I will never understand it. Won't people be upset if IU gets bounced by some crappy team that they would crush in a series?
    I love the tourney and the idea of it, but what always makes me laugh is similar people (maybe not the same ones) will be totally pi**ed about NCAA FOOTBALL where without a playoff you can lose your entire title shot WITH ONE LOSS. Um, you mean just like round 2 of tourney?

    The entire NCAA football season is just the freaking basketball bracket, it's the same thing. You might draw a tough team or an easy team, the paths ARE NOT THE SAME in either sport, but in basketball it's the best thing going while a week 5 loss for Auburn is the worst thing in the sport because it's so unfair that they don't get a 2nd chance.


    NCAA basketball has a mostly irrelevent regular season. So what that IU lost to Butler, it literally means ZERO to their situation at this point. So while it's fun to rush the court or get hyped, as a fan of a top team getting beat in JAN I'd think "whoopdedoo". Even now Syracuse could give a F that it lost to G'town. Emotionally, sure, but in a practical impact, zilch.



    I know this goes off topic a bit, but to me it shows the NON-LOGICAL, emotional fan views of the various sports, especially the NCAA sports.


    Every NBA team could crush every NCAA team. They would block more shots, blow past guys with sick moves, set far tougher screens, run cleaner PnR, show better hands catching tough passes and just hit insane shots with hands in the face. The Pistons would put it on IU like the Pacers just did to them. Monroe was an elite NCAA player and he's only gotten better since then. He'd own the paint and do it by playing a higher quality version of the sport.


    This is why Peck is 100% right. NCAA fans always cite every non "how you actually play and perform the art of the sport" aspect to the event when describing what they love. It's like enjoying your kids finger painting more than the Louvre...come on man, you don't love art, you love your kids.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    IU fans would be obviously, but college fans in general would be saying "oh man, the tournament is so awesome! anything can happen!" March Madness is a helluva lot of fun, I love it too, but a single elimination tournament is a terrible way to decide a champion.
    The phrase "anything can happen" is a big deal to some people. The key with college is that "anything does happen" and you can be sure to see some amazing endings and frantic play when backs are against the wall so often.

    Also, you get to see teams play each other that may have never played each other. In the NBA, every team has played every other team so there are not many surprises in the playoffs in comparison. We got to see little Butler play some monster programs. You get to see huge upsets like Jimmy V's NC State squad beating Houston in the finals. You have many different conferences competing for overall bragging rights. You have many more rivalries than you have in the NBA. Many of those rivalries have gone on for decades rather than a short period of time like the NBA...as teams go up and down the totem pole. Is Detroit even our rival now? I don't really know. I do know if Chicago or Miami comes in town it's a lot more exciting...and tickets are probably harder to come by. That's got to be a sign right there.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    IU fans would be obviously, but college fans in general would be saying "oh man, the tournament is so awesome! anything can happen!" March Madness is a helluva lot of fun, I love it too, but a single elimination tournament is a terrible way to decide a champion.
    What's funny to me though is how fans love the NCAA bracket but for the EXACT SAME REASONS don't like 3 or 5 game first round series. To me as a kid growing up with classic MLB where the LCS was 5 and the WS was 7, the message of more games was one of increased importance. LCS was only 5 because it was a lesser even than the WS, that was the point.

    So what if a #8 NBA team upsets a #1 in 5 games. The point of the bracket is that lots of teams are good, but only one can weather that crazy path without getting sniped by some oddity. To me the NBA should have stayed the same way. Even 3-5-7-7 would be great.

    The idea that some "crazy" team would get in and beat a "deserving" team has NEVER been proven in the bracket. All the shockers do is remove the unworthy, the teams not tough enough to handle all comers on all nights. The shockers themselves never make it through. You might think "Butler", but Butler proved that it had NBA talent level players, a great coach and was actually underrated, not a shocker upset.

    This would be the same in the NBA. If the Heat can lose 2 of 3 to the Bucks or falling Celtics, then really how good are they? Think of when Denver upset the Sonics. Did Denver go all the way and ruin everything? Nope. And when the strike version of the Knicks DID get to the Finals, they were competitive and they had to beat the elite Pacers in a 7 game series to get there, proving that the strike left the seeding a bit off.

    The early 7 game series aren't to ensure "nothing goes wrong" because there is no such thing. Otherwise just skip round 1 for the #1 and #2 seeds and let them bye through. No, you play "just in case" which means people want to see those teams PROVE they can win rather than taking their seeding's word for it.

    No, the early 7 game series are for MONEY, period. They'd do 13 game series if they could get fans to pay to watch them all without backlash.



    By the way, just do the mental experiment and try to recall any first round best of 7 series not involving the Pacers over the last 10 years or more. I can't even remember without looking who OKC played in round 1 last year. The only ones we do remember usually ARE THE UPSETS, those are the ones that had the buzz just like the bracket games. Yet the NBA sees GSW over Dallas as a bad thing. This is where the NBA lost sight of what fuels excitement.

    People loved the 80's NBA. Look at their playoff format. Not only shorter early round series but ALSO BACK TO BACK GAMES. It used to be rather common and all it did was push both teams to meet regular seasons standards. Again, the spacing is for money and TV air time.

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  18. #337
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    There is nothing like trying to make a point by bringing up a girly movie..


    This thread is also an example of why some fans are been pushed away by the homer radicals, is either you are with the team 100% and never question the team or we don't need you, homer radicals are all over the internet trying to knock people down, on Facebook, on twitter and on this forum.

    Some people are acting like the Pacers don't need regular fans but the fact is that they do.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Detroit isn't a practical rival right now because we were bad then they were bad. It seems kind of diluted now where some people respect the mutual history. When we're both good at the same time the history will probably bring it back.
    "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    There is nothing like trying to make a point by bringing up a girly movie..


    This thread is also an example of why some fans are been pushed away by the homer radicals, is either you are with the team 100% and never question the team or we don't need you, homer radicals are all over the internet trying to knock people down, on Facebook, on twitter and on this forum.

    Some people are acting like the Pacers don't need regular fans but the fact is that they do.
    I'm saying those people aren't even regular fans to begin with and never will be. It just doesn't matter what big mouth NON FANS have to say about it. Those aren't the same people that are casual fans that aren't going to the games yet.
    "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    There is nothing like trying to make a point by bringing up a girly movie..


    This thread is also an example of why some fans are been pushed away by the homer radicals, is either you are with the team 100% and never question the team or we don't need you, homer radicals are all over the internet trying to knock people down, on Facebook, on twitter and on this forum.

    Some people are acting like the Pacers don't need regular fans but the fact is that they do.
    Have you been in the hospital?! I thought you were dead!
    "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The phrase "anything can happen" is a big deal to some people. The key with college is that "anything does happen" and you can be sure to see some amazing endings and frantic play when backs are against the wall so often.

    Also, you get to see teams play each other that may have never played each other. In the NBA, every team has played every other team so there are not many surprises in the playoffs in comparison. We got to see little Butler play some monster programs. You get to see huge upsets like Jimmy V's NC State squad beating Houston in the finals. You have many different conferences competing for overall bragging rights. You have many more rivalries than you have in the NBA. Many of those rivalries have gone on for decades rather than a short period of time like the NBA...as teams go up and down the totem pole. Is Detroit even our rival now? I don't really know. I do know if Chicago or Miami comes in town it's a lot more exciting...and tickets are probably harder to come by. That's got to be a sign right there.
    All valid, and maybe you aren't really debating Peck and I on this, but that's not a "basketball" reason. It's all the ancillary items that come from a long established structure (which the NCAA is ruining obviously), the ties that you get with alumni or their family, the amount of teams in total, etc.

    The bracket is awesome and my point in the last post was the NBA should have stayed closer to that ideal rather than trying to move away. I hate the whole "let's do all we can to make sure no bad teams get in and no upsets occur" movement the NBA took and got writers to push as good ideas too. Reseed the West and East? Longer series? The bracket doesn't reseed if an upset happens and even the title game is a 1 game series. They let tiny "weak" confernence winners get in, but in the NBA people hate if the #9 West team is left out while in the East they'd be #6? Why, that's just the same as the bracket where an ACC team gets left out but the Patriot league winner gets in. And people LOVE IT.



    You know back to your rivals point it does touch on the schedule thing. It's unbalanced, but not like MLB is right. 4 in the East (a few 3 only) and 2 in the West (or vice versa). But why is that? So fans can SEE EVERY TEAM AT LEAST ONCE - ie, money. Syracuse doesn't schedule every top 25 team in the US every year just so their fans can see every team. It's not even remotely realistic.

    And in MLB we've seen how that same gimmick, interleague play, has impacted the mystery of the ASG and the World Series. It's cooler when you are bringing together 2 teams that haven't met in order to "solve the debate". If they already played then the scoreboard already solved the debate at least once, even if it might be different the 2nd time. And there is a sense of freshness, mystery, and the unexpected that draws people in.

    So maybe Miami and OKC don't even play in the regular season some years. Think of the impact on the Finals if it was their first time seeing each other all year.

    And the tradeoff allows you to also add more division games so that the Pacers see CHI or DET more. Think of the 90's. Who was the Pacers main rival? Not Chicago, their true regional and divsional rival. It was the Knicks. Why? Because thanks to the playoffs the Pacers PLAYED THE KNICKS WAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER TEAM. Just the 7 game series was basically 2 seasons worth of games against CHI or DET. And when the Pacers went to the Finals they played more games against the Lakers than nearly any other team.

    The Yanks could never play enough WS games to play more than they face Boston every season. IU will never play more games against non-conference teams than they do Purdue or Michigan.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Every NBA team could crush every NCAA team. They would block more shots, blow past guys with sick moves, set far tougher screens, run cleaner PnR, show better hands catching tough passes and just hit insane shots with hands in the face. The Pistons would put it on IU like the Pacers just did to them. Monroe was an elite NCAA player and he's only gotten better since then. He'd own the paint and do it by playing a higher quality version of the sport.
    I wanted to highlight this point. I went to the game Friday (and on a side note, I think I saw you, Seth. What section do you sit in? I almost said hi.) Anyway, after the first quarter, my dad said "They'd (the Pistons) still beat Indiana by 30." I'd go a little further and say that Detroit team, missing 2 of their best 4 players, could beat IU at IU by 30 in a 40 minute game. Easily.

    Which brings me to this point. Could IU beat a D-League team on a neutral court? I'm not sure they could. So if Indiana couldn't beat a D-League team, how does that make college basketball any different from women's basketball. Whenever I watch a women's game, I have to prepare myself mentally that women are worse at playing the game than men in order to get any enjoyment out of the game. And I'm not sure the difference between the NBA and college basketball is that much different between men's and women's basketball.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    I wanted to highlight this point. I went to the game Friday (and on a side note, I think I saw you, Seth. What section do you sit in? I almost said hi.) Anyway, after the first quarter, my dad said "They'd (the Pistons) still beat Indiana by 30." I'd go a little further and say that Detroit team, missing 2 of their best 4 players, could beat IU at IU by 30 in a 40 minute game. Easily.

    Which brings me to this point. Could IU beat a D-League team on a neutral court? I'm not sure they could. So if Indiana couldn't beat a D-League team, how does that make college basketball any different from women's basketball. Whenever I watch a women's game, I have to prepare myself mentally that women are worse at playing the game than men in order to get any enjoyment out of the game. And I'm not sure the difference between the NBA and college basketball is that much different between men's and women's basketball.
    I'd love to see IU try to score on the Pacers. They might lose by 100.
    "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    College is romanticized because money are not involved. At least legally..
    ...said the kid that took Derek Rose's SAT test for him.

    NCAA and "fair", "no money", "no agents", "no thugs", "love of the game" is such a fantasy story. Like you say, it's a money machine just like the NBA. With worse officials and sloppier play. And less quality oversight of cheating to gain an advantage.

    People are mad that Miami spent all their cap on 3 guys basically, but love an NCAA that features Calipari "magically" recruiting entire classes of NBA talent every year. He doesn't even work against a cap because the under the table money has no cap. Any team can win in the NCAA? No, Northwestern is a bigger underdog to KY, UConn, LVille, etc than Cleveland is to Miami. Cleveland (now) is closer to winning a title than Northwestern is, unless they change their recruiting policies at least (ie, cheat or cheat more).

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    I wanted to highlight this point. I went to the game Friday (and on a side note, I think I saw you, Seth. What section do you sit in? I almost said hi.) Anyway, after the first quarter, my dad said "They'd (the Pistons) still beat Indiana by 30." I'd go a little further and say that Detroit team, missing 2 of their best 4 players, could beat IU at IU by 30 in a 40 minute game. Easily.

    Which brings me to this point. Could IU beat a D-League team on a neutral court? I'm not sure they could. So if Indiana couldn't beat a D-League team, how does that make college basketball any different from women's basketball. Whenever I watch a women's game, I have to prepare myself mentally that women are worse at playing the game than men in order to get any enjoyment out of the game. And I'm not sure the difference between the NBA and college basketball is that much different between men's and women's basketball.
    I was with TraderJoe over in the club corner near BillS. But normally I sit a few rows up from the bench (half season). Always welcome a hi, but I need PD names to know who people are. The DetroitInvasion trip really screwed up my memory. So many non-PD people in A55 and G2 (or just lurkers) and so many names or Twitter handles or both.

    If I ever "remeet" you, just make fun of me and remind me. At my age it takes repeat efforts to lock things in.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    ...said the kid that took Derek Rose's SAT test for him.

    NCAA and "fair", "no money", "no agents", "no thugs", "love of the game" is such a fantasy story. Like you say, it's a money machine just like the NBA. With worse officials and sloppier play. And less quality oversight of cheating to gain an advantage.

    People are mad that Miami spent all their cap on 3 guys basically, but love an NCAA that features Calipari "magically" recruiting entire classes of NBA talent every year. He doesn't even work against a cap because the under the table money has no cap. Any team can win in the NCAA? No, Northwestern is a bigger underdog to KY, UConn, LVille, etc than Cleveland is to Miami. Cleveland (now) is closer to winning a title than Northwestern is, unless they change their recruiting policies at least (ie, cheat or cheat more).
    Or Cody Zeller committing to an Indiana program that won 30 games over 3 seasons when two older brothers good enough to play in the NBA bypassed the Hoosiers. I don't buy that a top 15 recruit all of a sudden decides to go to a struggling program without a little "something extra." Sorry IU fans.

  33. #347
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I was with TraderJoe over in the club corner near BillS. But normally I sit a few rows up from the bench (half season). Always welcome a hi, but I need PD names to know who people are. The DetroitInvasion trip really screwed up my memory. So many non-PD people in A55 and G2 (or just lurkers) and so many names or Twitter handles or both.

    If I ever "remeet" you, just make fun of me and remind me. At my age it takes repeat efforts to lock things in.
    Yup, that was you. Section 115. (I was in 112) In fact, I met Trader Joe and BillS at the PD party too, so it could have been a little reunion. And I'll remember to re-introduce myself.

  34. #348
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    A lot of people prefer college over the NBA (specially in Indiana) because college basketball reminds people of the "good all times", there is a reason why Hoosiers is one of the must watched movies of all times.

    College also gives people things they can related to, almost every college team(except Kentucky?) has one or two non athletic white guys, those guys make a lot of people think "I can do that".

    Compare that to the NBA and is not even close, I mean who is going to related to a guy like Lebron James? or Dwight Howard? those guys are freak of nature they don't make you think "I can do that", relating to players has a lot to do with attendance in my opinion.


    Just my two cents

  35. #349
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    I think thats why magic Johnson was so popular. I think I speak for everyone here when I saw a 6'9" black man going behind his back and throwing no look passes, it was like looking in a mirror.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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  37. #350

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    Or Cody Zeller committing to an Indiana program that won 30 games over 3 seasons when two older brothers good enough to play in the NBA bypassed the Hoosiers. I don't buy that a top 15 recruit all of a sudden decides to go to a struggling program without a little "something extra." Sorry IU fans.
    No need to apologize. I generally don't get too offended by ignorant and cynical speculation.

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