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Thread: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

  1. #301
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by will567 View Post
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    I know because I believe that the NBA is a deeply flawed game
    And College isn't? Please.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    And College isn't? Please.
    College is romanticized because money are not involved. At least legally..
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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  4. #303
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    College is romanticized because money are not involved. At least legally..
    Totally agree. College basketball is 10x more flawed than the NBA. Totally romanticized. And you KNOW every halfway decent player is getting SOME form of under-the-counter benefits.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    And College isn't? Please.
    Basketball as a game is extremely flawed. Fast moving, probably the fastest I can think of, game that relies on split second decisions from not just players but refs. I'm fully behind you on your argument, just I dunno, whether the people that prefer college over pro realize it or not they're not evaluating the actual quality of play on the floor. It's an environment deal, which is fine, someone wants to go to a game to scream their head off and wear some colors and be part of an "event" more power to em, that's definitely fun.

    But the people that like to pretend that the college game is more "pure" or "true to the spirit of the game" or whatever ******** cliche you want to throw out, gimme a break. The corruption in college athletics is Vegas and pro is a riverboat on the Ohio in comparison. People like college games over pro because it allows them to feel young again and like they're part of "something." Which is all well and good, I'm not going to tell someone how or why to be a fan. But this belief that the NBA isn't the absolute highest Mount Everest peak of quality basketball is just flat out wrong. If you want to watch the best basketball in the world you're an NBA fan and if someone disagrees they're certainly entitled to, but they're wrong.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    I was impressed by both articles. They were both creative and expressed an interesting viewpoint. Clearly I align myself more with the first, but the response reflects a real attitude of the casual fan, and probably shouldn't be dismissed. I'm surprised by the venomous reaction, to be honest. I agree with VAPacersfan take on this. This Pacers need the casual/bandwagon fan.

    Regardless, the whole discussion is silly. This team is real, and the fans will come. In another month this will be a non-issue. The Pacers will be the new Colts. People on PD knew it before everyone else, but it will happen nonetheless. And longtime Pacers fans like myself (and most here on PD) will just grin on the inside, knowing that they aren't "real fans." But we will nonetheless enjoy the ride, and the Simons will enjoy their money.

    Buckle up kids; this is going to be fun!!!

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroy Staley View Post
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    but the response reflects a real attitude of the casual fan
    Look, obviously some of it reflects a real attitude. But I really hope that not the whole article reflects a real attitude. Because if people in Indiana really believe that the Pacers are LeBron's *****es and have a Washington General feel then I will just be severely disappointed

    Quote Originally Posted by Leroy Staley View Post
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    This Pacers need the casual/bandwagon fan.
    Every team needs any fan they can get. But the person who wrote the article is not a Pacers fan. He never were and he never will be.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Ignorant people that don't care about the sport to begin with are irrelevant.
    "Danny Granger is one of the top players in the league. To move Danny, you better get a lot back." - Larry Bird

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  11. #308
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I wasn't there during the JOB years (I hadn't even thought of watching the NBA then) but I agree that it's the journey that matters.
    You sir, are truly blessed.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Basketball as a game is extremely flawed. Fast moving, probably the fastest I can think of, game that relies on split second decisions from not just players but refs. I'm fully behind you on your argument, just I dunno, whether the people that prefer college over pro realize it or not they're not evaluating the actual quality of play on the floor. It's an environment deal, which is fine, someone wants to go to a game to scream their head off and wear some colors and be part of an "event" more power to em, that's definitely fun.

    But the people that like to pretend that the college game is more "pure" or "true to the spirit of the game" or whatever ******** cliche you want to throw out, gimme a break. The corruption in college athletics is Vegas and pro is a riverboat on the Ohio in comparison. People like college games over pro because it allows them to feel young again and like they're part of "something." Which is all well and good, I'm not going to tell someone how or why to be a fan. But this belief that the NBA isn't the absolute highest Mount Everest peak of quality basketball is just flat out wrong. If you want to watch the best basketball in the world you're an NBA fan and if someone disagrees they're certainly entitled to, but they're wrong.
    College and NBA are like comparing apples and oranges. They both taste good but neither are much alike.

    It's certainly true that NBA players are far more talented on average. They are professionals and don't go to classes. It's their job. They are going to be much better. The game is going to show that talent level. I get that.

    But college games are dog fights. I've never seen a regular season NBA game as scrappy as some college games. A lot of people enjoy watching that level of aggressiveness. In contrast, I have watched some NBA games and both teams look like they're about to fall asleep in comparison.

    THAT is why many people like college ball more than NBA. I'm not one of those people, but I do understand it.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I've never seen a regular season NBA game as scrappy as some college games.
    Then you must have missed some Pacers games this season

    PS: Or any matchup between great defenses of the present or the past.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    College is romanticized because money are not involved. At least legally..
    College is romanticized because of the 17 players currently on Indiana University's roster.... 10 guys played high school ball in Indiana. 10 Hoosiers, 10 neighborhood kids compared to 1 George Hill on the PAcers.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    But college games are dog fights. I've never seen a regular season NBA game as scrappy as some college games. A lot of people enjoy watching that level of aggressiveness. In contrast, I have watched some NBA games and both teams look like they're about to fall asleep in comparison.
    scrappy in a way like when you play against your 12 year old brother when you are 18 .

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  18. #313
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    scrappy in a way like when you play against your 12 year old brother when you are 18 .
    No. Scrappy in a way that an entire season is perhaps beating that particular team in that particular game. More is riding on each college game because there are less games. Teams go an entire week at times prepping.

    Also, the structure of the tournament is more thrilling because it's one and done. A last second shot where you are in or out is far, far more common. That's just scratching the surface.

    It's just a different game. Apples and oranges. All are free to their opinion.

  19. #314

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    I am a fan of both college and NBA basketball, but the "meaningfulness" aspect attributed to regular season college games is overrated. The IU-MSU game was thrilling to watch - great & intense basketball. The meaning of the game was that IU became slightly more likely to get the overall #1 seed in a 68 team single elimination tournament whereas MSU became slightly more likely to instead get a #2 seed. If MSU had won, the slight edge in seeding would be the other way round. If MSU had won by 50 and if IU lost every one of their remaining games, IU would still make the tournament.

    The games have meaning in that you want to win a conference, just like all Pacers games have meaning because we want to win our division, get a #2 seed, and have a clearer path to the ECF.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 02-24-2013 at 10:02 AM.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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  21. #315
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    I talked to a customer in my store yesterday that actually said, "I know they're second in the East, but they've gotta clean up the stuff off the court." I said they have and that everyone on the roster is good, and he re-emphasized "OFF the court."

    I couldn't believe it, but he still thought we were having strip club shootings.

    That gentleman is the minority now. I am routinely having conversations with people about how well the team is doing, and people are actually claiming to be Pacers fans again. We're getting there.
    BLUE COLLAR GOLD SWAGGER

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    College is romanticized because of the 17 players currently on Indiana University's roster.... 10 guys played high school ball in Indiana. 10 Hoosiers, 10 neighborhood kids compared to 1 George Hill on the PAcers.
    Let's take a look at the Kentucky Wildcats roster of this very season. Of the 13 players currently on their roster they have 4 guys that are actually from Kentucky. Jon Hood, Jarrod Polson, Twany Beckham and Tod Lanter. The only player averaging double digit MPG is Jarrod Polson with 12.7 PPG. Jon Hood is averaging 4.6 MPG, Twany Beckahm is averaging 3.4 MPG and Tod Lanter is averaing 1.5 MPG (and has only appeared in 4 games).

    What you say may be true about IU. But it isn't necessarily true for every NCAA team.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  23. #317

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    scrappy in a way like when you play against your 12 year old brother when you are 18 .
    Big 10 ball is scrappy like an 80s / 90s NBA game. The hand check rules make it nearly impossible to stop a skilled ball handler from penetrating. Once they are past their man, any contact regardless of who initiated it is a foul. The NFL is headed the same direction with the "defenseless receiver" rules.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    The hand check rules make it nearly impossible to stop a skilled ball handler from penetrating. Once they are past their man, any contact regardless of who initiated it is a foul.
    Hibbert has stopped numerous such penetrations this season

    The refs ain't blowing their whistles anymore when the big jumps straight up as he should.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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  26. #319

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    I wasn't there during the JOB years (I hadn't even thought of watching the NBA then) but I agree that it's the journey that matters.
    Nuntius, I must admit that I find it somewhat ironic that someone that wasn't even a fan during the JOB years feels comfortable having such strong opinions on Pacer fandom. I'd been a die hard pacer fan since before the Versace years. Yet I can feel the disgust in many of the posts in this thread. I'm curious as to how much of that is coming from guys who's fandom isn't all that mature? I'm curious if the posters that have experienced more ups and downs as a fan are more "forgiving" because they've been in a similar to place to where I am (for their own reasons) at some point.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    Nuntius, I must admit that I find it somewhat ironic that someone that wasn't even a fan during the JOB years feels comfortable having such strong opinions on Pacer fandom. I'd been a die hard pacer fan since before the Versace years. Yet I can feel the disgust in many of the posts in this thread. I'm curious as to how much of that is coming from guys who's fandom isn't all that mature? I'm curious if the posters that have experienced more ups and downs as a fan are more "forgiving" because they've been in a similar to place to where I am (for their own reasons) at some point.
    rm1369, I'm not from the USA. I am from Greece. I live in Greece. I have no relation with the USA except the Pacers and some distant relatives that went there as immigrants.

    I was not an NBA fan before watching a Pacers game. In fact, I pretty much hated the NBA and was largely ignorant about it. I liked the Pacers due to some older NBA Live game that had the team that featured Rik Smits but never actually thought about following any NBA team as I disliked the league since it was too superstar driven for my taste. I became intrigued with the NBA during the lock-out (I know, that's ironic) and I decided to watch a pre-season game of the Pacers since they were the team I liked the most. I was captivated. The Pacers lost eventually but I liked the team a lot. Their style of play didn't remind me of the NBA I despised. It wasn't about a superstar. It was about a team. They played D, they crashed the boards, they played inside-out and they were physical.

    So, I decided to follow them. Yes, I've never actually gone to a Pacers game since I live in another continent. But I've watched at least 98% of the games since then despite the starting hour for most of the home games (the 7:00 start to you) being 2 o' clock in the morning in Greece. And it gets worse in road games. But frankly, I don't give a damn. I will gladly sacrifice some sleep to watch the team I love. And it's the same with several other international fans that frequent this board. I'm not the only one doing this.

    Also, I did not criticize your Pacer fandom. I didn't say that you have to come to the games to be a real fan or anything. Frankly, my problem is not with the people that don't attend the games. They have their reasons and they it's their right to do so. My problem is with the people that know nothing about this team and yet still spew BS about it. Like the guy that pizza guy mentioned in his post. Like the author of that article.

    Simply put, I have no problem with you, rm1369. You have every right to not go to Pacers games. That's not my issue.

    I have problems with the author of that article. That's my issue from the very beginning of this thread.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

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  29. #321
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    I am a fan of both college and NBA basketball, but the "meaningfulness" aspect attributed to regular season college games is overrated. The IU-MSU game was thrilling to watch - great & intense basketball. The meaning of the game was that IU became slightly more likely to get the overall #1 seed in a 68 team single elimination tournament whereas MSU became slightly more likely to instead get a #2 seed. If MSU had won, the slight edge in seeding would be the other way round. If MSU had won by 50 and if IU lost every one of their remaining games, IU would still make the tournament.

    The games have meaning in that you want to win a conference, just like all Pacers games have meaning because we want to win our division, get a #2 seed, and have a clearer path to the ECF.
    IDK. Just like NFL football, regular season college games are simply more meaningful because there are a lot less of them. Games in the tournament are even more important. Each and every one of those games is like a game #7 in the NBA. That's why it's called March Madness.

    I understand this is an NBA board,,,

  30. #322
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by will567 View Post
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    I know because I believe that the NBA is a deeply flawed game and that I answer the original posters question as to how I personally feel about the posted article while having an opinion that does not perfectly fit with yours I am not entitled to have one. Let me assure you that I am capable of making up my own mind. I appreciate your concern on the matter. I only hope the bulk of your almost 5000 posts are not as this hollow as this one or you would have truly wasted a lot of time. I find it sad that anyone found your post to be at all useful.
    I know you're type. Your are part of this new society of people who say the things they believe are their own personal facts. It doesn't matter if somebody presents you with actual truth and reason filled evidence. It doesn't jive with your personal facts.

    As to my 5000 posts. I think the majority of posters here on PD will attest that while I have strong opinions, I am more than willing to own up to them if proven wrong. As well as keeping it civil with not posting derogatory personal attcks towards anybody. Otherwise I would have been banned by now.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  31. #323

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    rm1369, I'm not from the USA. I am from Greece. I live in Greece. I have no relation with the USA except the Pacers and some distant relatives that went there as immigrants.

    I was not an NBA fan before watching a Pacers game. In fact, I pretty much hated the NBA and was largely ignorant about it. I liked the Pacers due to some older NBA Live game that had the team that featured Rik Smits but never actually thought about following any NBA team as I disliked the league since it was too superstar driven for my taste. I became intrigued with the NBA during the lock-out (I know, that's ironic) and I decided to watch a pre-season game of the Pacers since they were the team I liked the most. I was captivated. The Pacers lost eventually but I liked the team a lot. Their style of play didn't remind me of the NBA I despised. It wasn't about a superstar. It was about a team. They played D, they crashed the boards, they played inside-out and they were physical.

    So, I decided to follow them. Yes, I've never actually gone to a Pacers game since I live in another continent. But I've watched at least 98% of the games since then despite the starting hour for most of the home games (the 7:00 start to you) being 2 o' clock in the morning in Greece. And it gets worse in road games. But frankly, I don't give a damn. I will gladly sacrifice some sleep to watch the team I love. And it's the same with several other international fans that frequent this board. I'm not the only one doing this.

    Also, I did not criticize your Pacer fandom. I didn't say that you have to come to the games to be a real fan or anything. Frankly, my problem is not with the people that don't attend the games. They have their reasons and they it's their right to do so. My problem is with the people that know nothing about this team and yet still spew BS about it. Like the guy that pizza guy mentioned in his post. Like the author of that article.

    Simply put, I have no problem with you, rm1369. You have every right to not go to Pacers games. That's not my issue.

    I have problems with the author of that article. That's my issue from the very beginning of this thread.
    Nuntius, you are correct that you have not said anything I find off putting in this thread and I apologize for associating your name with the question. However, I do still wonder about the overall question. There are plenty of statements in this thread that I do find off putting. What's curious is that none come from the posters that I know have had a very a long term relationship with the team. As a matter of fact, they seem to have very, very little participation in this thread at all. I'm curious if they feel as the posters I do have issue with do, but don't state it that way out of respect for the forum and overall civility. Or if a very long term relationship with the team makes you more understanding of the ebbs and flows of fandom.

  32. #324
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Hibbert has stopped numerous such penetrations this season

    The refs ain't blowing their whistles anymore when the big jumps straight up as he should.
    Its like nobody has ever heard of charging before!
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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  34. #325
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    I talked to a customer in my store yesterday that actually said, "I know they're second in the East, but they've gotta clean up the stuff off the court." I said they have and that everyone on the roster is good, and he re-emphasized "OFF the court."

    I couldn't believe it, but he still thought we were having strip club shootings.

    That gentleman is the minority now. I am routinely having conversations with people about how well the team is doing, and people are actually claiming to be Pacers fans again. We're getting there.
    Agreed. Progress has been made and attendance will reflect it. Once the team is known across the city to be a real contender, you will see people pouring in. Is that fair weather fandom? Oh, probably.

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