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Thread: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

  1. #276
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I enjoyed watching the 4 years of JOB era. It wasn't wasting time. I got see Danny Granger develop into a legit all-star. I go to see the team grow into what it is today. The basketball may not have been what it is today, but there is more to being a fan than watching the basketball.
    This puts you in a minority even among the die-hard fans. I supported the team but I can't say I "enjoyed watching" - enjoyed complaining (and arguing about what complaints were and were not valid with PD members), maybe.

    A thought crosses my mind, though - and while triggered somewhat by the discussion with rm1369 I want to be clear I know his point had nothing whatsoever to do with what I'm bringing up - regarding superstars. If the only way to get one is in the daft, and the only way to do that is to have multiple top 3 picks over a few years, then the fact of the matter is you HAVE to be playing some pretty bad basketball at some point. Sure, young players being developed helps the attitude, but if they aren't playing badly during that period then they won't have a bad enough record to be that high in the lottery. How can those (again not pointing any fingers in this conversation) who don't come because the team is losing AND don't come because the team has no superstar expect there to BE a team when the opportunity for a superstar comes around? Someone has to support the losing team to make that possible.

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  3. #277
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    I don't fault anyone for not going to a Pacers game. Not everyone has to like the NBA. I don't really follow the NFL after I saw Anthony Gonzalez nearly get decapitated in Philly a few years ago. I'd rather not support a sport where I'm watching people slowly commit suicide, but I get why other people do.

    I've just accepted that Indiana is not a state that cares about pro basketball. I'm at the point where I'd almost prefer the Pacers move to a city that would support them in a way they deserve. This has been one of the best run small market franchises in league history and no one cares. Indiana frankly doesn't deserve a pro team when a city like Sacramento doesn't have one.
    Aside from that pesky 2004-2010 stretch where he had a brawl, unlikable players, numerous off the court incidents that embarrassed the franchise, and then a few years of bad players being coached by Jim O'Brien. Those six years honestly couldn't have gone much worse. You don't erase six years of ill-will in just two years. Yes we made the playoffs in 2011, but we only won 37 games that year and got beat 4-1 in the first round. Plus Jim O'Brien coached half of the season. Last year was great, but the lockout certainly hurt us as far as capitalizing off of the Bulls series. This year is the first full regular NBA season in which we are putting together a great record.

    Yesterday is perfect evidence that people are getting interested again. I was there and it was a great crowd. A couple of years ago, a Friday night game against a crappy team like Detroit wouldn't have had a good crowd. The fans are coming back.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 02-23-2013 at 09:49 AM.

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  5. #278
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    I've just accepted that Indiana is not a state that cares about pro basketball. I'm at the point where I'd almost prefer the Pacers move to a city that would support them in a way they deserve. This has been one of the best run small market franchises in league history and no one cares. Indiana frankly doesn't deserve a pro team when a city like Sacramento doesn't have one.
    So do you have a specific list of cities that don't deserve an NBA team or is it just Indy?
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    I am still reading page 10, but yet again we get another "non die hard" fan offering his opinion and it seems we would rather bash him and his opinions (not a real fan, never should have left, too stupid to know now is the time to come back) than to welcome him back.

    I hope no one here even tries to welcome back casual fans IRL the same way they have in this and similar threads.

    We may not like them, but we NEEDcasual fans. However, reading this site the past week, if you are not a die hard you are a loser who has no business even offering up your opinions.

    Damn shame.


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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    He made some good points (other basketball options, corporate sponsorships alienating the casual fan, revenue sharing, tv contracts, etc.), but he also made some bad points (lack of Top 5 draft pick, being LeBron's B****, etc.). It doesn't hurt to hear a difference in opinion and prespective from time to time.

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  11. #281
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    This state cares about basketball and if you think it doesn't then your a step out of reality. There are many, many, many reasons that people doesn't go to ball games and especially losing clubs in any sport. We can set here and hash out all the reasons valid or not in whoever's eyes. But at the end of the day those reasons are more valid then some realize or want to admit.

    Just put a product on the floor that is worth peoples money and time and they will come.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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  13. #282
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    This puts you in a minority even among the die-hard fans. I supported the team but I can't say I "enjoyed watching" - enjoyed complaining (and arguing about what complaints were and were not valid with PD members), maybe.

    A thought crosses my mind, though - and while triggered somewhat by the discussion with rm1369 I want to be clear I know his point had nothing whatsoever to do with what I'm bringing up - regarding superstars. If the only way to get one is in the daft, and the only way to do that is to have multiple top 3 picks over a few years, then the fact of the matter is you HAVE to be playing some pretty bad basketball at some point. Sure, young players being developed helps the attitude, but if they aren't playing badly during that period then they won't have a bad enough record to be that high in the lottery. How can those (again not pointing any fingers in this conversation) who don't come because the team is losing AND don't come because the team has no superstar expect there to BE a team when the opportunity for a superstar comes around? Someone has to support the losing team to make that possible.

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    If you didn't enjoy watching Pacer games then you wouldn't have been a season ticket holder during the JOB years. So you can sit there and say you didn't enjoy watching their miserable product, but really.....you were you captivated by it. Its the journey! How can anyone think the JOB years were a waste of time when we now have seen this monster of a team emerge from that rubble? This team doesnt happen unless we have those teams.

    You know who wasted their time? People like rm1369, who gave up right in the middle of the turmoil. I think in general these folks feel a bit guilty about their decision to abandon the team. Hence pop in here and tell their sad experience with the team as some sort of validation. Like a cleansing of their basketball heart, before they feel they can hop on board cheer for them again.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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  15. #283
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    He made some good points (other basketball options, corporate sponsorships alienating the casual fan, revenue sharing, tv contracts, etc.), but he also made some bad points (lack of Top 5 draft pick, being LeBron's B****, etc.). It doesn't hurt to hear a difference in opinion and prespective from time to time.
    I agree. Chopping out some of his post, most casual fans feel that way. I agree with him in part. I do not enjoy sitting up high compared to watching it on the big screen with a good commentator. You get to see replays and quite frankly the snacks are a lot cheaper and the seat is free. These are just the facts. You can disagree but by far the vast majority of casual Pacer fans feel that way because otherwise that attendance problem wouldn't be a problem. There are well over a million people in the metro area. It takes 1 in 100 to fill BLF...and that's just counting locals.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    I watched the Pacers through most the R. Miller years and after so it was probably 12 years of watching most games. I loved the excitement of the young guys when Miller left such as Bender/Harrington/Oneal/Artest even though it fell apart through injury (Bender) and head cases (Artest) but it was an exciting time to watch the young guys grow. Then Tinsley and Jackson and some others came in and totally made the Pacers unwatchable for me. So many times I heard Bird say that this is the offseason he makes serious changes but never did. Even last year the FO could have made a splash in FA or a trade but just got lesser players. I watch the Pacers very little but come on here and see what's new with the team and I'm glad the Pacers are doing well again but what keeps me away from watching the Pacers like I used to is that there is little star power on the team and I know people will say P.G. is a star in the making but to me it just seems like the FO has let the fans down for years and I just don't get to excited anymore about the Pacers because I just don't believe the FO is willing to do what it takes. I was a die hard Pacer/Colts fan and now I'm just a die hard hard Colts fan - The Colts FO seems to me to be able to try to put a winner on the field and I just think there's not that dedication from the Pacers! This is just my opinion and I like the Pacers but I just wish the Pacers would do more to show they are trying to put a championship team together such as a trade to bring in a quality player wether it be a starter/bench player.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    My conclusion from this thread is that Indiana is not an exceptional pro-basketball market that doesn't fit in with the NBA like some people suggest it is. We want to see superstars and we want to see them in HD.

    I actually love watching Pacer games in the balcony, if you're a basketball nerd and want to see everything develop it is the best place to watch the game. Indiana claims to have a lot of basketball nerds. But it seems like everyone either wants to watch the game in the first 5 rows of the lower bowl for 20 bucks or wants to say at home and watch it in HD. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but don't act like Indy is that exceptional fanbase then. It's like someone who claims to be a music lover but has the new Bieber CD as his go to disk.

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  19. #286

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    just wait until technology allows u to sit a seat at an arena from ur house. Then it will always be a sellout!

  20. #287
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    BTW, the issue is primarily money. I have the money but I spend it on other things. The idea of spending anything north of $50 for a ticket to see a regular season game against a team other than the Bulls or Heat or maybe the Lakers isn't something I would ever consider. It doesn't even matter how good the Pacers might be or even if the game wasn't televised. I have other options.

  21. #288
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    My conclusion from this thread is that Indiana is not an exceptional pro-basketball market that doesn't fit in with the NBA like some people suggest it is. We want to see superstars and we want to see them in HD.

    I actually love watching Pacer games in the balcony, if you're a basketball nerd and want to see everything develop it is the best place to watch the game. Indiana claims to have a lot of basketball nerds. But it seems like everyone either wants to watch the game in the first 5 rows of the lower bowl for 20 bucks or wants to say at home and watch it in HD. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but don't act like Indy is that exceptional fanbase then. It's like someone who claims to be a music lover but has the new Bieber CD as his go to disk.
    Indianapolis has a lot of transients. It's not something inherent about long term residents. Many, many people who live here now did not live here 10-15 years ago. But they choose to live here because it's a good place to raise a family and they like the cost of living. They are WISE with their money. Take that however you want to, but that's the issue.

    Edit: BTW, it's the people coming into the state who generally have the money to buy tickets. But they decide to settle here because they want to raise a family here. Certainly that doesn't apply to everyone, but it's very common.

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  23. #289
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    BTW, the issue is primarily money. I have the money but I spend it on other things. The idea of spending anything north of $50 for a ticket to see a regular season game against a team other than the Bulls or Heat or maybe the Lakers isn't something I would ever consider. It doesn't even matter how good the Pacers might be or even if the game wasn't televised. I have other options.
    So do the Simons.

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  25. #290
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    I completely understand the thought that the NBA is slanted towards certain teams(big markets). It's funny I never hear anything from the NFL about wanting certain cities in the Super Bowl. How many years did we hear that the NBA didn't want us and other certain teams(like San Antonio) in the Finals. Somebody, somewhere inside the League has said those things otherwise they wouldn't have gotten repeated so many times.

    Looking back, I was lucky in my fandom. My grandparents watched EVERY Pacer game. W/L, good team/bad team, every game. It helped that that I grew up with Reggie and those Knicks series. I think it also helped that when the Pacers began their descent that IU was also struggling. Don't get me wrong though I love college basketball. And it's true, if it wasn't for the Pacers then I wouldn't watch the NBA. So while I did take breaks from the Pacers, I never completely went away. I would still watch multiple games even during the JOB years. And the love for the Pacers grew as I moved away from the Indy area. Kinda the whole rep my state, rep my team sort of thing. So I got to rep the Pacers in Cincinnati with a lot of Cavs fans(LBJ was still there) and now in Kentucky with the non NBA fans and Celtics followers here. So I can certainly understand the thought about why fans have left or soured on the NBA or even the Pacers themselves. But we know that winning cures all and this team is beginning to win and win big. People will come. We had 17,000 or so there last night against a bad team with no superstar and also with another 12k to 14k at the Butler which looked like another sellout for them. We're getting there again fellas. It doesn't really matter the reasons why they come back. Just welcome them in when they do! The type of people that come up with the excuses like the original article won't be the ones coming back. Or heck forget about people coming back....build the younger fanbase that has yet to come in or is the bandwagon star follower.

  26. #291

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    OP is correct in one thing, the people of Indianapolis don't owe the Pacers a damn thing. If anything, the team owes Indianapolis for building a stadium and even renegotiating with the team to give them even MORE money.

    That said, how can anyone not love this team? They are playing Indiana basketball. Great guys, solid fundamentals, a truly inspiring coach, the best of the best defense, with just enough showtime on the court. If you are "just not that into" this team, I would have to question your love for the game.

    I agree with Mo some of the older folks will just never be fans again, but there are a bunch of young people who are just now getting interested. These are the people that will be fans for life after watching this team.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Attendance at the last two games has been excellent. There were over 17k there to see the Pistons game last night.

    Perhaps the franchise is turning a corner now.

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  30. #293
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Tibbs View Post
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    I completely understand the thought that the NBA is slanted towards certain teams(big markets). It's funny I never hear anything from the NFL about wanting certain cities in the Super Bowl. How many years did we hear that the NBA didn't want us and other certain teams(like San Antonio) in the Finals. Somebody, somewhere inside the League has said those things otherwise they wouldn't have gotten repeated so many times.

    Looking back, I was lucky in my fandom. My grandparents watched EVERY Pacer game. W/L, good team/bad team, every game. It helped that that I grew up with Reggie and those Knicks series. I think it also helped that when the Pacers began their descent that IU was also struggling. Don't get me wrong though I love college basketball. And it's true, if it wasn't for the Pacers then I wouldn't watch the NBA. So while I did take breaks from the Pacers, I never completely went away. I would still watch multiple games even during the JOB years. And the love for the Pacers grew as I moved away from the Indy area. Kinda the whole rep my state, rep my team sort of thing. So I got to rep the Pacers in Cincinnati with a lot of Cavs fans(LBJ was still there) and now in Kentucky with the non NBA fans and Celtics followers here. So I can certainly understand the thought about why fans have left or soured on the NBA or even the Pacers themselves. But we know that winning cures all and this team is beginning to win and win big. People will come. We had 17,000 or so there last night against a bad team with no superstar and also with another 12k to 14k at the Butler which looked like another sellout for them. We're getting there again fellas. It doesn't really matter the reasons why they come back. Just welcome them in when they do! The type of people that come up with the excuses like the original article won't be the ones coming back. Or heck forget about people coming back....build the younger fanbase that has yet to come in or is the bandwagon star follower.
    And I bet it gets better as we come down the home stretch and into the playoffs. People are starting to realize what's going on. People are talking about it. People are getting excited. Honestly, we are kinda being like those hipster snobs that were listening to that band "before they were cool." People are going to jump on the wagon and we're going to say "where were you when times were tough?" People are going to ask us where David West came from, surprised that's he's not some stiff white guy with an ugly jump shot. It's going to be frustrating that we earned our stripes during the bad years and these people are coming to reap the benefits of our labor.

    But, when the house is full and we are all screaming together, it won't really matter. And that is closer than we might think.
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  32. #294
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Yes it is. 1/7th of their TV national TV money is about $5 million on average of the current NBA national TV contract.

    That never ends. The former owners of the Spirits are getting about $20 million into perpetuity just for being bought out in 1976.

    That franchise, which will never play another game, is worth about $200 million today, or its pulling $50 million in value from each of the Spurs, Nuggets, Pacers, and Nets.

    -- Gordon Growth math for any other valuation dorks out there: ($20 million * 1.03) / (13% - 3%) is slightly over $200 million.

    I may have skipped this yet, but local television money is going to be based on Ratings. Does anybody think there are that many people sitting at home, enjoying every game, but not helping raise awareness of the Pacers? I don't. I think the local TV ratings are still pretty bad and it isn't really accurate to say that is only because they aren't on Channel 4 anymore. Too many houses have access to FSNI for that to be legit.
    Actually, my point wasn't about the exact dollar amount. I was only indicating that it was not a flat rate, set amount. I didn't explain that very well. But the original poster indicated that in paying 5M a year that the Pacers weren't really gaining much through TV revenues anyway. My point was that they were keeping over 85% of what was returned to them. Or, as you have indicated, over 30M per year.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    So do you have a specific list of cities that don't deserve an NBA team or is it just Indy?
    I was goofing around a bit there, I don't actually want the Pacers to move to another state. It didn't come across clearly seeing as how six people responded saying what a dummy I am. So let me just reaffirm that I solemly swear I don't wish the team would move.

    Having said that, I do like to fantasize what it would be like if they moved to somewhere like Vancouver. For some reason I always love when people stay fans of a team after it leaves the city.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Yes it was a Friday night, but I still think 17k+ to watch a lowly team like the Pistons is a good sign. Having 16.5k or whatever it was to watch New York was pretty good too. Hopefully few if no more 11-12k ordeals this year.

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  36. #297

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Well nobody on here is gonna change your mind. But just keep your ears open so you can jump on the bandwagon when the media tells you to.
    I know because I believe that the NBA is a deeply flawed game and that I answer the original posters question as to how I personally feel about the posted article while having an opinion that does not perfectly fit with yours I am not entitled to have one. Let me assure you that I am capable of making up my own mind. I appreciate your concern on the matter. I only hope the bulk of your almost 5000 posts are not as this hollow as this one or you would have truly wasted a lot of time. I find it sad that anyone found your post to be at all useful.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    If you didn't enjoy watching Pacer games then you wouldn't have been a season ticket holder during the JOB years. So you can sit there and say you didn't enjoy watching their miserable product, but really.....you were you captivated by it. Its the journey! How can anyone think the JOB years were a waste of time when we now have seen this monster of a team emerge from that rubble? This team doesnt happen unless we have those teams.
    I wasn't there during the JOB years (I hadn't even thought of watching the NBA then) but I agree that it's the journey that matters.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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  38. #299
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    Honestly, we are kinda being like those hipster snobs that were listening to that band "before they were cool."
    No. We are the guys that defend that band from the people that say that they suck and they are another band's *****es.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

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  39. #300
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by will567 View Post
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    I know because I believe that the NBA is a deeply flawed game and that I answer the original posters question as to how I personally feel about the posted article while having an opinion that does not perfectly fit with yours I am not entitled to have one. Let me assure you that I am capable of making up my own mind.
    The NBA is flawed. The team in your city isn't flawed.

    You have every right to not support them. You are entitled to your opinion.

    That doesn't mean that your opinion on this team is right, though.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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