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Thread: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

  1. #226
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    If Sacto, Charlotte, Memphis, Portland or Millwaukee had this team with it's current run, they'd be selling out a lot more games and would have a lot more attendance at this point.
    I wanted to comment on this earlier but I had to go out so I'm commenting now.

    The Sacramento fanbase is really loyal. It's very touching how hard they try to keep a struggling Kings franchise even though the Maloofs have done all they could to run into the ground. A fanbase like that really deserves a team.

    A "fan" like that David Anderson doesn't deserve a team. He deserves the Maloofs not the Simons.
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    If we're going this far into the conversation I know you and Bill are very aware of this. Indiana can't even keep the best and brightest. Please folks understand I'm not putting down Hoosiers (born and raised here) but there is a certain brain drain from the state where students with top degrees move on out when they graduate.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  3. #228
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    What is the crime with sitting in the balcony?

    Yes it is high up, but the views are still excellent, you an see offensive sets develop better, and you watch the game in the premier arena in the NBA. The arena experience/vantage point is much better than television. I still have yet to figure this out.
    We've had balcony seats in my family back to MSA. The analogous seats we were transferred to in BLF are a better view. Agree the views up there are great for balcony. Certainly if you can get lower rows up there it's worth going and taking family given the reasonable prices.
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    In response to everyone who complains that Indiana doesn't deserve the team because locals don't show enough support-- the situation is what it is. There are not enough people who want to attend the games for BLF to sell out. Those are the facts. The people who don't come to the games don't want to. Should they buy tickets to a game they don't want to attend out of some obligation to a corporation? No, the facts are that YOU want to attend the games but lots of other people don't and they have no obligation to do so. It couldn't be any more simple.

    Now I have to go wash the Daihatsu.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rabidpacersfan View Post
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    so that WAS El Pacero I saw trying to sneak down to the front rows earlier this year... Lol
    Yes, it was....if you see a guy at a Pacer game with a championship belt around his shoulder....assume that it's him.

    You should have come down.....Seth, Mrs. Gnome's lucky Husband, Mrs. Gnome, El Pacero and I were in the lower bowl section talking it up during the game.

    Next Pacer game in Oracle Arena, we have to remember to meet up.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banta View Post
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    In response to everyone who complains that Indiana doesn't deserve the team because locals don't show enough support-- the situation is what it is. There are not enough people who want to attend the games for BLF to sell out. Those are the facts. The people who don't come to the games don't want to. Should they buy tickets to a game they don't want to attend out of some obligation to a corporation? No, the facts are that YOU want to attend the games but lots of other people don't and they have no obligation to do so. It couldn't be any more simple.

    Now I have to go wash the Daihatsu.
    Well obviously.

    The issue is when people don't own up to the real reasons why they don't want to go. Misinformation can really hurt the team and prevent people who otherwise WOULD want to go form going.

    What pissed me off about the article was all of the flat out lies and willful ignorance, clearly it's the guy's right to not want to go to a game.

    If you're just not interested, that's fine, but OWN that. Don't hide behind some BS like "it costs $90 a game for lower level seats." That's simply a lie. Very frustrating when guys like me would probably be sitting in the 10th row tonight (and most nights) if they still lived in Indy...

    On a lighter note, attendance tonight was 17,750! w00t
    Last edited by rabid; 02-22-2013 at 09:26 PM.

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  9. #232
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    With a near sellout tonight and likely the start to many more, that individual can go his or herself.

    You can't please everyone, but thousands and thousands of people in Indy are fans of the Pacers. Diehard, casual, etc.

    Let's move on and stop catering to the few who obviously weren't fans of the Pacers, for whatever reason. That goes for any team in any city. Not everyone is interested.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    If we're going this far into the conversation I know you and Bill are very aware of this. Indiana can't even keep the best and brightest. Please folks understand I'm not putting down Hoosiers (born and raised here) but there is a certain brain drain from the state where students with top degrees move on out when they graduate.
    Indy will never be able to compete with a Chicago or New York, but it's not doing too bad for a landlocked city in the middle of nowhere:

    The 10-county Indianapolis-Carmel metro area fueled much of Indiana's population growth over the past decade, adding 231,137 people, according to analysis by the Indiana Business Research Center at IU's Kelley School of Business.

    http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/17319.html

    There's Indiana, and then there's Indianapolis. Growth in most of Indiana is pretty stagnant. Growth in Indy, however, is very strong.

  11. #234
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    So was it the overall shaming of Indianapolis over the past 2 weeks by the media as a whole that got 17K+ to watch the Pistons or was the team killing New York and Chicago and Paul George with his great All-star game.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Interesting thread. I've learned I'm racist, uncultured, a ****** fan, and an all around horrible person. I'm not the author of the article, but I agree / understand most of his arguments. Until very recently I would have considered myself a die hard fan. Ive never been a season ticket holder, but I would attend around 8-10 games a year and watch nearly all the rest on TV. I've not been to a single game this year for the first time in nearly 20 years (excluding a couple years spent living out of state) And only watched a handfull on tv. I had a circle of friends and family that loved the pacers - went to games together, talked / argued about them, and, most importantly, cared. Their particpation has dwindled as well. The reasons are small and many. There is no single universal reason people are not attending. Many of the reasons you guys like to ridicule are very valid small pieces to the puzzle - just not the entire picture. My personal list:

    - I've realized I don't care much for the NBA. It's funny that every time someone mentions that the Pacers can't win without a superstar they are called a bandwagon fan who only wants to follow a Lebron James type player. My belief and experience is that the issue is the exact opposite - it's not that I want a LBJ, its a complaint that you can't win a title in the NBA without one. That's what the Washington Generals comment refers to. It's not commentary on the Pacers, its commentary on the NBA. I don't need or expect my team to win every year, but I have to believe they can eventually win. That they can build a champion. And the honest truth is I DON'T. Not anymore. I don't remember when exactly it changed, but its very similar to finding out there is no Santa. I want to believe, I really truly do. But I can't. And every time I see Dwade flop his way to the line or jump into a defender, it just reinforces my understanding of David Sterns NBA.

    -Atmosphere. It's a bit of a chicken / egg argument here. I took my daughter to a few games last year and had a decent time. I took her to a colts game this year and had a great time. The combo of the constant "entertainment" and (here is the chicken /egg part) the lack of crowd made it seem a lot less special to my daughter. You felt like you were a part of something at the Colts game. We were just watching at the Pacers game. My daughter has no big allegiance to either team or sport, but I know which one she would prefer to go to - so guess where I'll spend my money. This will change some as fans slowly come back and I'm sure I'll take her back at some point.

    - I simply got out of the habit of following the team religiously and my interest has steadily declined. I blame JOB (and Bird) for this. I started disliking the product so much that I started purposely not watching on some nights. And I found other things to do. So I watched a little less accidentally - I'd forget they had a game on occasion, etc. My wife noticed and stopped planning things around their schedule, so I missed a few more games. And my life goes on. Many people are creatures of habit. Once they've lost that habit it isnt so easy to turn back on. You have to rebuild it and that takes time.

    Most of my friends and family have similiar Reasons. I'd love to be more interested. I love being caught up and invested in the team and the moment (that's why you watch sports) But my current feelings about the NBA make it extremely tough to watch consistantly enough to rebuild my habit. The fact that my daughter only somewhat likes going to pacers games and my friends and family are in a similar place as me certainly doesn't help.

    I understand everyone's concern and in some ways feel bad for the team. However, if you really want to help the Pacers, I'd suggest that the majority of the posters in this thread not talk about the Pacers to anyone but die-hard fans. Because the last thing this thread makes me want to do is go to a damn Pacer game.
    Last edited by rm1369; 02-22-2013 at 11:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    The problem is where does this end? It doesn't stop at the NBA. Why go to football games? Why go to college sports games? Why go to a movie theater? Why go to bars?

    You can have all that stuff at home, but that doesn't mean you SHOULD do everything at home. I'll say again, I'm not going after anybody personally. "In this economy?" Is one of the great tricks of our generation. No one ever has money, but they have all the neatest gadgets, buy their kids(or themselves) all the newest video games, and have great big beautiful TVs to watch because they don't have any money to ever go out.
    It doesn't end. Peck talks about how it grinds him when people talk about how they like college better, and he brings up DePauw. No one goes to those games. You're a Kent State guy, you guys have probably have some rough attendance. Ball St struggles with everything. They barely get people to go when the teams are good, let alone when they suck. I think they're getting like 2,000 at home mens games.

    NASCAR attendance is falling. Movie theaters are losing money like crazy.

    Bars have lost a lot of their business from the smoking bans as well.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    -Atmosphere. It's a bit of a chicken / egg argument here. I took my daughter to a few games last year and had a decent time. I took her to a colts game this year and had a great time. The combo of the constant "entertainment" and (here is the chicken /egg part) the lack of crowd made it seem a lot less special to my daughter. You felt like you were a part of something at the Colts game. We were just watching at the Pacers game. My daughter has no big allegiance to either team or sport, but I know which one she would prefer to go to - so guess where I'll spend my money. This will change some as fans slowly come back and I'm sure I'll take her back at some point.
    Your experience was predetermined. You lamented the Pacers for having a few really bad years while they were building this current monster.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    I understand everyone's concern and in some ways feel bad for the team. However, if you really want to help the Pacers, I'd suggest that the majority of the posters in this thread not talk about the Pacers to anyone but die-hard fans. Because the last thing this thread makes me want to do is go to a damn Pacer game.
    You aren't going to one anyway by your own admission. This thread had no impact on that. So if you read a thread and feel personally attacked by it, then thats on you, nobody singled you out. You singled yourself out.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Your experience was predetermined. You lamented the Pacers for having a few really bad years while they were building this current monster.
    No my daughter and the crowd determined my experience. Are you suggesting that a half sold out BLF has the same excitement as a a sold out LOS? My whole point is the current lack of attendance makes the whole experience less. So much so that my daughter loves going to Colts games and is only so - so about about Pacer games. Hence the chicken / egg reference. You need people to make it an experience people want to come to.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    You aren't going to one anyway by your own admission. This thread had no impact on that. So if you read a thread and feel personally attacked by it, then thats on you, nobody singled you out. You singled yourself out.
    Did I say I'm not going because of this thread? Did I say I was personally attacked? I'm simply stating that the attitudes in this thread wouldn't help recruit people to games. Do you disagree with that? Do you think printing this thread in indystar would help pacers attendance? I've seen too many people I would have considered quality posters sounding like asses in this thread
    Last edited by rm1369; 02-22-2013 at 11:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Is there any excuse that is justifiable to not attend? The way these discussions go, I wouldn't think there is one. I mean, when people try to justify why it's a good idea to charge crazy concession prices with it being in line with movie theaters, as movie theaters across the country are struggling, says something. It says people don't want to pay them there either.

    It just seems like every reason that people don't go, is because there's something wrong with them. They're racist. They're ignorant. Etc. Face it folks, we are the very very small minority. Thinking that other people are wrong, because they chose to spend their money differently isn't all that hard to figure out.

    You have to put a product worthy of the cost on the floor. Winning does most of it, but you're not going to get people running back quickly. You'll pick up the bandwagoners at the end when you're making a push, but for the most part, people are going to want consistent winning before you see consistent attendance. If the Pacers have a great season, like they have been, and make a pretty good playoff run, and we this is a problem next season at this time then I don't know if Indy would be able to really support a NBA franchise.

    That would suck.

  18. #240

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    Interesting thread. I've learned I'm racist, uncultured, a ****** fan, and an all around horrible person. I'm not the author of the article, but I agree / understand most of his arguments. Until very recently I would have considered myself a die hard fan. Ive never been a season ticket holder, but I would attend around 8-10 games a year and watch nearly all the rest on TV. I've not been to a single game this year for the first time in nearly 20 years (excluding a couple years spent living out of state) And only watched a handfull on tv. I had a circle of friends and family that loved the pacers - went to games together, talked / argued about them, and, most importantly, cared. Their particpation has dwindled as well. The reasons are small and many. There is no single universal reason people are not attending. Many of the reasons you guys like to ridicule are very valid small pieces to the puzzle - just not the entire picture. My personal list:

    - I've realized I don't care much for the NBA. It's funny that every time someone mentions that the Pacers can't win without a superstar they are called a bandwagon fan who only wants to follow a Lebron James type player. My belief and experience is that the issue is the exact opposite - it's not that I want a LBJ, its a complaint that you can't win a title in the NBA without one. That's what the Washington Generals comment refers to. It's not commentary on the Pacers, its commentary on the NBA. I don't need or expect my team to win every year, but I have to believe they can eventually win. That they can build a champion. And the honest truth is I DON'T. Not anymore. I don't remember when exactly it changed, but its very similar to finding out there is no Santa. I want to believe, I really truly do. But I can't. And every time I see Dwade flop his way to the line or jump into a defender, it just reinforces my understanding of David Sterns NBA.

    -Atmosphere. It's a bit of a chicken / egg argument here. I took my daughter to a few games last year and had a decent time. I took her to a colts game this year and had a great time. The combo of the constant "entertainment" and (here is the chicken /egg part) the lack of crowd made it seem a lot less special to my daughter. You felt like you were a part of something at the Colts game. We were just watching at the Pacers game. My daughter has no big allegiance to either team or sport, but I know which one she would prefer to go to - so guess where I'll spend my money. This will change some as fans slowly come back and I'm sure I'll take her back at some point.

    - I simply got out of the habit of following the team religiously and my interest has steadily declined. I blame JOB (and Bird) for this. I started disliking the product so much that I started purposely not watching on some nights. And I found other things to do. So I watched a little less accidentally - I'd forget they had a game on occasion, etc. My wife noticed and stopped planning things around their schedule, so I missed a few more games. And my life goes on. Many people are creatures of habit. Once they've lost that habit it isnt so easy to turn back on. You have to rebuild it and that takes time.

    Most of my friends and family have similiar Reasons. I'd love to be more interested. I love being caught up and invested in the team and the moment (that's why you watch sports) But my current feelings about the NBA make it extremely tough to watch consistantly enough to rebuild my habit. The fact that my daughter only somewhat likes going to pacers games and my friends and family are in a similar place as me certainly doesn't help.

    I understand everyone's concern and in some ways feel bad for the team. However, if you really want to help the Pacers, I'd suggest that the majority of the posters in this thread not talk about the Pacers to anyone but die-hard fans. Because the last thing this thread makes me want to do is go to a damn Pacer game.
    So what would make you change your mind? I'm not being snarky or anything, genuinely asking. Is it even anything the Pacers could do or you just would need large league wide changes to the product as a whole?

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  20. #241
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    No my daughter and the crowd determined my experience. Are you suggesting that a half sold out BLF has the same excitement as a a sold out LOS? My whole point is the current lack of attendance makes the whole experience less. So much so that my daughter loves going to Colts games and is only so - so about about Pacer games. Hence the chicken / egg reference. You need people to make it an experience people want to come to.
    LOL...If the Pacers are kicking *** and taking names then a half sold out BLF is plenty exciting and raucous. Ever been to a Colts game where they are getting blown out? Its a pretty sad place. The size of the crowd does not determine my enjoyment. It is the players and the team and the game that determine my enjoyment. You had so so experience at the Pacer game last year because you admittedly do not care much for the team or the game anymore. Thus your experience was predetermined. I don't see how it had anything to do with the crowd.


    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    Did I say I'm not going because of this thread?Did I say I was personally attacked? I'm simply stating that the attitudes in this thread wouldn't help recruit people to games. Do you disagree with that? Do you think printing this thread in indystar would help pacers attendance? I've seen too many people I would have considered quality posters sounding like asses in this thread
    "I've learned I'm racist, uncultured, a ****** fan, and an all around horrible person."

    "Because the last thing this thread makes me want to do is go to a damn Pacer game. "

    If this thread kept you away from going to a Pacers game, then you weren't going anyways.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  21. #242

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    So what would make you change your mind? I'm not being snarky or anything, genuinely asking. Is it even anything the Pacers could do or you just would need large league wide changes to the product as a whole?
    My single biggest issue is with the league - not the team. There was a slow erosion of the "magic" and, honestly, a deep hatred and distrust for David Stern. (His retirement may help). I honestly don't know what the team could do. I certainly had my complaints about the teams management over the past 10 years, but that has nothing to do with my current apathy. I'm not trying to be punitive with them. As I said, I'd love to have that belief back, but its hard to make yourself truly believe something just because you want too.

    A league wide shift away from preferential treatment and reliance on superstars would certainly help. Isn't going to happen though. Being proven wrong (another Detroit) would certainly help. But, IMO, its only slightly more realistic.

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  23. #243

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    LOL...If the Pacers are kicking *** and taking names then a half sold out BLF is plenty exciting and raucous. Ever been to a Colts game where they are getting blown out? Its a pretty sad place. The size of the crowd does not determine my enjoyment. It is the players and the team and the game that determine my enjoyment. You had so so experience at the Pacer game last year because you admittedly do not care much for the team or the game anymore. Thus your experience was predetermined. I don't see how it had anything to do with the crowd.
    I had a so so time at the game because my daughter was ****ing bored half the damn game - both times. I went to the game for her. She doesn't understand either game to the point of really caring. She gets excited when the crowd is excited. It isn't that hard to understand if you aren't just being an ***. And the colts lost the game I took her too (Jacksonville) - granted they were up most of the game.



    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    If this thread kept you away from going to a Pacers game, then you weren't going anyways.
    Whatever. If you can't understand that the attitudes reflected in this thread would likely have a negative impact if expressed to the people on the fence about going to games then there is no reason to discuss it further.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    Interesting thread. I've learned I'm racist, uncultured, a ****** fan, and an all around horrible person. I'm not the author of the article, but I agree / understand most of his arguments. Until very recently I would have considered myself a die hard fan. Ive never been a season ticket holder, but I would attend around 8-10 games a year and watch nearly all the rest on TV. I've not been to a single game this year for the first time in nearly 20 years (excluding a couple years spent living out of state) And only watched a handfull on tv. I had a circle of friends and family that loved the pacers - went to games together, talked / argued about them, and, most importantly, cared. Their particpation has dwindled as well. The reasons are small and many. There is no single universal reason people are not attending. Many of the reasons you guys like to ridicule are very valid small pieces to the puzzle - just not the entire picture. My personal list:

    - I've realized I don't care much for the NBA. It's funny that every time someone mentions that the Pacers can't win without a superstar they are called a bandwagon fan who only wants to follow a Lebron James type player. My belief and experience is that the issue is the exact opposite - it's not that I want a LBJ, its a complaint that you can't win a title in the NBA without one. That's what the Washington Generals comment refers to. It's not commentary on the Pacers, its commentary on the NBA. I don't need or expect my team to win every year, but I have to believe they can eventually win. That they can build a champion. And the honest truth is I DON'T. Not anymore. I don't remember when exactly it changed, but its very similar to finding out there is no Santa. I want to believe, I really truly do. But I can't. And every time I see Dwade flop his way to the line or jump into a defender, it just reinforces my understanding of David Sterns NBA.

    -Atmosphere. It's a bit of a chicken / egg argument here. I took my daughter to a few games last year and had a decent time. I took her to a colts game this year and had a great time. The combo of the constant "entertainment" and (here is the chicken /egg part) the lack of crowd made it seem a lot less special to my daughter. You felt like you were a part of something at the Colts game. We were just watching at the Pacers game. My daughter has no big allegiance to either team or sport, but I know which one she would prefer to go to - so guess where I'll spend my money. This will change some as fans slowly come back and I'm sure I'll take her back at some point.

    - I simply got out of the habit of following the team religiously and my interest has steadily declined. I blame JOB (and Bird) for this. I started disliking the product so much that I started purposely not watching on some nights. And I found other things to do. So I watched a little less accidentally - I'd forget they had a game on occasion, etc. My wife noticed and stopped planning things around their schedule, so I missed a few more games. And my life goes on. Many people are creatures of habit. Once they've lost that habit it isnt so easy to turn back on. You have to rebuild it and that takes time.

    Most of my friends and family have similiar Reasons. I'd love to be more interested. I love being caught up and invested in the team and the moment (that's why you watch sports) But my current feelings about the NBA make it extremely tough to watch consistantly enough to rebuild my habit. The fact that my daughter only somewhat likes going to pacers games and my friends and family are in a similar place as me certainly doesn't help.

    I understand everyone's concern and in some ways feel bad for the team. However, if you really want to help the Pacers, I'd suggest that the majority of the posters in this thread not talk about the Pacers to anyone but die-hard fans. Because the last thing this thread makes me want to do is go to a damn Pacer game.
    Before I start, let me say that I respect your opinion and can understand what you are trying to say.

    From what I can tell, there are 2 parts to this when it comes to supporting the Team.

    I get the part about what you say about the "experience and Product" that you see when you spend time and money to go to a game at BILF. Simply put...the product that PS&E markets to the fans isn't what you'd expect and want from going to a Professional Basketball game.

    But the 2nd part that I am not sure that you answered is if you'd simply support the Team while watching the game at home. I get that over the last couple of years...the product under JO'B sucked....but the Team, how it's run, what it does on the offense and defensive end...has changed 180 degrees. To me, there is a difference between the product/experience that you have when you go to a game at BILF and just supporting the Team ( in general ) because of the product that they put on the floor throughout the season.

    Have you watched enough games this season to see that this Team run under Vogel is different than the garbage that JO'B put on the floor? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here....I'm just saying that if you watch the Team from home on Fox Sport Indiana....you'll see that this Team is NOTHING like the Team that you were so turned off by under JO'B.

    Also...I'm trying to understand if the NBA product ( As a whole ) turns you off or simply anything that is related to the Pacers. For example.....a Heat game will likely be sold out ( hence the overall BILF fan experience should be better ) ....would you go to see that game cuz the Heat are playing? or would it even matter cuz it's irrelevant what Team is there cuz the overall NBA product is what you are not interested in?
    Last edited by CableKC; 02-23-2013 at 01:07 AM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Before I start, let me say that I respect your opinion and can understand what you are trying to say.

    From what I can tell, there are 2 parts to this when it comes to supporting the Team.

    I get the part about what you say about the "experience and Product" that you see when you spend time and money to go to a game at BILF. Simply put...the product that PS&E markets to the fans isn't what you'd expect and want from going to a Professional Basketball game.

    But the 2nd part that I am not sure that you answered is if you'd simply support the Team while watching the game at home. I get that over the last couple of years...the product under JO'B sucked....but the Team, how it's run, what it does on the offense and defensive end...has changed 180 degrees. To me, there is a difference between the product/experience that you have when you go to a game at BILF and just supporting the Team ( in general ) because of the product that they put on the floor throughout the season.

    Have you watched enough games this season to see that this Team run under Vogel is different than the garbage that JO'B put on the floor? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here....I'm just saying that if you watch the Team from home on Fox Sport Indiana....you'll see that this Team is NOTHING like the Team that you were so turned off by under JO'B.
    On the first part, I'm not entirely complaining about the quality of the product at BLF. I don't care for the games and gimmicks that I believe cheapen the experience (for me), but I don't really mean to insinuate that is keeping me away. All I'm trying to say is that the current lack of a crowd makes it less fun. I realize the irony in what I'm saying, but that doesn't change the fact that the games I took my daughter to last year where just OK when compared to other options. This will correct itself as more people come to games and I will likely take my daughter back once the crowds are back to give her a better experience. I just have little interest it again taking her to games where there is no one sitting near us in the balcony as was the case at the previous games.

    On the second part, I'm not at all trying to be punitive with the team. I didn't purposely leave. I started taking games off because I absolutely hated the JOB led teams. I was getting angry to the point it wasn't worth it. I didn't completely leave and I didn't intend to be where I am now. However, from there started a slow (unintentional) slide away from the team and the league (separate issues). I'm not an uninformed fan. I know every player on the team, their game, and that they all have been good citizens (which has never been a real concern of mine anyways). I like the team. I don't like the league. And I've lost the habit of following them religiously. Maybe it's the definition of "bandwagon", but IMO a big factor in attendance is that a large portion of the fans lost that habit for various reasons. Those reasons may be gone, but its hard to get back in the habit of watching 75+ games when you've filled that void with something else. Not only did my habits change, but so did my families. Currently my dislike of the league is my big issue. It's hard for me to fully invest in the team when I don't like the league.

  27. #246
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    but I agree / understand most of his arguments.
    So, you agree /understand that the Pacers are LeBron's *****es?

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    I don't need or expect my team to win every year, but I have to believe they can eventually win. That they can build a champion. And the honest truth is I DON'T. Not anymore. I don't remember when exactly it changed, but its very similar to finding out there is no Santa. I want to believe, I really truly do. But I can't. And every time I see Dwade flop his way to the line or jump into a defender, it just reinforces my understanding of David Sterns NBA.
    1) So, when the Pacers win will you be back? Will you return when they beat the Heat in the ECF?

    2) Stern has already announced his retirement next season. It's not his NBA anymore.

    PS: I am from Greece. I always loved and played basketball. European basketball is much different than the NBA. The team is emphasized and not the individuals / superstars. Good coaches shine. I'm not a fan of the NBA. In fact, I used to hate it. Now, I don't hate it but I don't like several things about it either (superstar calls, large market bias etc).

    But this Indiana Pacers team encompasses what's good in basketball. Seriously. I wouldn't follow the NBA if it wasn't for the Pacers.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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  28. #247
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    On the first part, I'm not entirely complaining about the quality of the product at BLF. I don't care for the games and gimmicks that I believe cheapen the experience (for me), but I don't really mean to insinuate that is keeping me away. All I'm trying to say is that the current lack of a crowd makes it less fun. I realize the irony in what I'm saying, but that doesn't change the fact that the games I took my daughter to last year where just OK when compared to other options. This will correct itself as more people come to games and I will likely take my daughter back once the crowds are back to give her a better experience. I just have little interest it again taking her to games where there is no one sitting near us in the balcony as was the case at the previous games.

    On the second part, I'm not at all trying to be punitive with the team. I didn't purposely leave. I started taking games off because I absolutely hated the JOB led teams. I was getting angry to the point it wasn't worth it. I didn't completely leave and I didn't intend to be where I am now. However, from there started a slow (unintentional) slide away from the team and the league (separate issues). I'm not an uninformed fan. I know every player on the team, their game, and that they all have been good citizens (which has never been a real concern of mine anyways). I like the team. I don't like the league. And I've lost the habit of following them religiously. Maybe it's the definition of "bandwagon", but IMO a big factor in attendance is that a large portion of the fans lost that habit for various reasons. Those reasons may be gone, but its hard to get back in the habit of watching 75+ games when you've filled that void with something else. Not only did my habits change, but so did my families. Currently my dislike of the league is my big issue. It's hard for me to fully invest in the team when I don't like the league.
    I highlighted the part that I think stands out the most. The sentiment that you left because of JO'B ball isn't unusual a few years back. If you go back to many of the Post-Season threads during the JO'B years.....there were A LOT of hard core PD Members here that were ready to leave...even STH that told their Agents that they would not renew their Season Tickets if JO'B returned. Many of us decided to stick it out and were rewarded with Vogel-Ball....while UNDERSTANDABLY...others ( like yourself ) simply left. So, I don't blame you for leaving.

    I can understand the reasons for not bringing your daughter to a game for the reasons mentioned above...I just hope that you start watching games on a regular basis ( of course, on Fox Sports Indiana ) in the comfort of your home just to see how different the Team is. My guess is that you understand enough about Basketball to appreciate what this Team is about now to see that they are worth following and ultimately going out to a game at some point with your daughter ( maybe a Friday or Saturday game when there will likely be more fans in the stands ).
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  29. #248
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    On the first part, I'm not entirely complaining about the quality of the product at BLF. I don't care for the games and gimmicks that I believe cheapen the experience (for me), but I don't really mean to insinuate that is keeping me away. All I'm trying to say is that the current lack of a crowd makes it less fun. I realize the irony in what I'm saying, but that doesn't change the fact that the games I took my daughter to last year where just OK when compared to other options. This will correct itself as more people come to games and I will likely take my daughter back once the crowds are back to give her a better experience. I just have little interest it again taking her to games where there is no one sitting near us in the balcony as was the case at the previous games.

    On the second part, I'm not at all trying to be punitive with the team. I didn't purposely leave. I started taking games off because I absolutely hated the JOB led teams. I was getting angry to the point it wasn't worth it. I didn't completely leave and I didn't intend to be where I am now. However, from there started a slow (unintentional) slide away from the team and the league (separate issues). I'm not an uninformed fan. I know every player on the team, their game, and that they all have been good citizens (which has never been a real concern of mine anyways). I like the team. I don't like the league. And I've lost the habit of following them religiously. Maybe it's the definition of "bandwagon", but IMO a big factor in attendance is that a large portion of the fans lost that habit for various reasons. Those reasons may be gone, but its hard to get back in the habit of watching 75+ games when you've filled that void with something else. Not only did my habits change, but so did my families. Currently my dislike of the league is my big issue. It's hard for me to fully invest in the team when I don't like the league.
    This team flies in the face of what you think is wrong with the league, so I don't know what your issue is. But it sounds like you won't bother until the sheeple reaffirm Pacer games as a worthy good time. Also people don't' lose habits. They quit them. They also do not find habits, they start them.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  30. #249
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    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
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    Whatever. If you can't understand that the attitudes reflected in this thread would likely have a negative impact if expressed to the people on the fence about going to games then there is no reason to discuss it further.
    Those attitudes that you speak of are not targeted to the people who are on the fence about going to games.

    They are targeted to the people that are not interested to even watch a game, hate the team and bash them for what happened 8 years ago.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

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    13/4/2014

  31. #250

    Default Re: Fan to Pacers: Maybe we're just not that into you.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    This team flies in the face of what you think is wrong with the league, so I don't know what your issue is. But it sounds like you won't bother until the sheeple reaffirm Pacer games as a worthy good time. Also people don't' lose habits. They quit them. They also do not find habits, they start them.
    They've won a title?

    The rest I don't give a **** about. Be the grammar police I don't give a ****. You don't like my opinion then quit reading it. I'm done dealing with someone that obviously just wants to be an ***.

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