View Poll Results: Who do you want?

Voters
121. You may not vote on this poll
  • Paul George

    50 41.32%
  • Kyrie Irving

    71 58.68%
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 194

Thread: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

  1. #101
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    I'd take Kyrie because he has "best player in the league potential." My only concern with him is that he seems a little injury-prone.

    Start at the 1:37 mark of this video. Do we really think Paul could do what Kyrie does to a team as good as OKC here? I doubt he ever will. For those of you who don't feel like watching the video, Kyrie essentially single-handedly handles OKC over the last four minutes. And this has happened several times this season. He's already an elite player.

    Last edited by rexnom; 02-19-2013 at 12:58 AM.

  2. #102
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,533

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    More wings win rings because there's more wings. It's just standard probability.

    Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2
    Some say Chris Paul may be the greatest point guard ever. He's the best at his position period. He's not going to win a championship this year. Possibly in the future if Blake really raises his game, but that would mean Blake would have to become basically the best PF in the game. Or, the best player on his team and the reason they would win. Why can't CP3 win??

    Why couldn't two time MVP Steve Nash win if he was so great lead his team to win?

    The two best SF's in the game will probably be in the finals this year. Over the last 10 years we've seen championship runs by a team who either had the best center, best powerforward, best small forward, best shooting guard, but not once a dominate point...

    If we were going by odds I'd say it'd at least half to be 1 out of 5 wouldn't it?? Unfortunately Jason Kidd fell short. Steve Nash fell short. Deron Williams (utah) fell short, and Chris Paul has and will fall short.

    The problem, is if you took every single one of those great teams with great PGs and switched them out with a dominate wing and an average point, the potential of those teams would completely change.
    Last edited by mattie; 02-19-2013 at 01:01 AM.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  3. #103
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,533

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    In a league full of dominate point guards, you would think a dominate point would lead a team to a championship. It just isn't happening.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  4. #104
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Didn't Magic Johnson win 5 championships followed by Isiah winning 2? All the while Bird only won 3? What am I missing? A decade of MJ?

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to rexnom For This Useful Post:


  6. #105
    Member *astrisk*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mobile, AL
    Posts
    484
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Why are Chris Paul and then Rondo considered the 2 ELITE PGs in the NBA? It is because they effect the game multi-dimensionally... Chris Paul is an ELITE scorer, but both have great vision and are ELITE defenders.

  7. #106
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    4,002

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    There really does seem to be more really good point guards in the game right now then we've had at one time in the past. It surprises me that only 1 is averaging more then 10 assists and he'll fall off the stat chart very soon.

  8. #107
    Member *astrisk*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mobile, AL
    Posts
    484
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Didn't Magic Johnson win 5 championships followed by Isiah winning 2? All the while Bird only won 3? What am I missing? A decade of MJ?
    Didn't magic play with some of the greatest big men in the history of the game? Didn't he play every position (versatility)? Isn't he one of the greatest passers ever?

    Isaiah, chauncey are 2 of the only Elite pgs to win rings in the last 35 years where they had little help offensively from bigs... They also played on the 2 greatest defensive teams in the last 35 years...

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to *astrisk* For This Useful Post:


  10. #108
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Didn't magic play with some of the greatest big men in the history of the game? Didn't he play every position (versatility)? Isn't he one of the greatest passers ever?

    Isaiah, chauncey are 2 of the only Elite pgs to win rings in the last 35 years where they had little help offensively from bigs... They also played on the 2 greatest defensive teams in the last 35 years...
    Isn't this sort of making the Kyrie point? Once he gets some help, he'll start winning.

  11. #109
    Member *astrisk*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mobile, AL
    Posts
    484
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Isn't this sort of making the Kyrie point? Once he gets some help, he'll start winning.
    Hes gonna start winning like Steve Nash winning? Chris Paul winning? Deron Williams winning?

    No. I'm not making the Kyrie point...

  12. #110
    Member *astrisk*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mobile, AL
    Posts
    484
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Isn't this sort of making the Kyrie point? Once he gets some help, he'll start winning.
    Also, I liken Kyrie's game to Deron Williams and Steph Curry. In terms of tools and health questions...

  13. #111
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,533

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Didn't Magic Johnson win 5 championships followed by Isiah winning 2? All the while Bird only won 3? What am I missing? A decade of MJ?
    You could say that for sure - A long time ago, Magic dominated, but then I'd argue if your superstar pointguard is 6'9" then sure, he won't run into the problems that all other points run into. And that is getting shut down and slowed by great defenses.

    Isaiah Thomas is really the only time a dominate traditional point led his team to a title.

    And I'm not saying it is not possible. I'm saying it doesn't happen very much because it is not ideal.

    You can build a team around a dominate center and chances are you're going to win a championship- See every dominate center ever.
    You can build a team around a dominate powerforward and you can win a championship. (ok this actually hasn't happened much- woops!)
    You can build around a dominate SF and win a championship. See nearly every dominate SF ever.
    You can build a team around a dominate 2 guard. See every dominate 2 ever.

    Dominate points? You have Isaiah and Magic. Magic wasn't a traditional point but a 6'9" do everything superstar. Of course he would win. That leaves us with 1 traditional point guard that won.

    The rest didn't. Stockton, Nash, Paul, etc.

    It's not that these players hinder title chances. It's the fact that if you spend all your money one a great point guard, you're probably going to miss out on a key ingredient that almost every championship team has ever had. Some 2-5 player who could score the ball at will, or completely own the opposing team defensively.

    In the future, I'll count PG against any Kyrie team no matter what as long as Kyrie is the best player.. Because worst case scenario they'll just throw PG on Kyrie and slow him down. That's what you can do with a great wing.

    No point has ever had a major effect defensively.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to mattie For This Useful Post:


  15. #112

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    More wings win rings
    say that 3 times fast

  16. #113
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,533

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    To be clear I'm not saying you can't win with a superstar point. I'm just saying it isn't the ideal way to build a team. Obvious if you have a ton of talent all the way through out your team, and CP3 is your starting point, you're probably going to win.

    I'll give you an example of how a team could use this reasoning and possibly overnight build an absolute juggernaut.

    What if the Clippers decided to trade CP3?? They send CP3 and a draft pick out east for 'Melo, and Iman Shumpart. I think that team would be a powerhouse.

    jordan/griffin/'melo/billups/bledsoe

    Holytitties.

    And that's not even the best deal they could get out of CP3. CP3 is considered top five in the NBA.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  17. #114
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    8,751

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    LA Clippers 33-11 (0.750) with Chris Paul, 6-6 (0.500) without him. And I'm not sure that they won't win the championship this year. They are surely contenders.

    I think a Paul swap with any player in the league, save LeBron James and possibly Kevin Durant, would drop that team from contention.

  18. #115
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,533

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Eh maybe. Who knows.
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  19. #116
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,142

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Do we really think Paul could do what Kyrie does to a team as good as OKC here?
    Not as good as Kyrie. But the main problem still remains. Kyrie is a PG.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  20. #117
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,142

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    When it comes to the makeup of a contending team, it is so much easier to contain a pointguard than nearly every other player on the court.
    Amen, brother
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to Nuntius For This Useful Post:


  22. #118
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    19,142

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Didn't Magic Johnson win 5 championships followed by Isiah winning 2? All the while Bird only won 3? What am I missing? A decade of MJ?
    Magic Johnson is 6'9. In his rookie season, he won Finals MVP while starting at Center in Game 6 and dropping 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists and 3 steals. Throughout his career he played every position. He never stopped being 6'9 which is something that largely eliminated the problem that *astrisk* pointed out.

    Size wins.

    Yes, Isiah did win 2 rings. That's true and since him no other superstar PG has done this. But Isiah also played along Joe Dumars and Bill Laimbeer in one of the most physical teams of that time. He did won but so did the system in which he played.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    -------------

    CJ Watson - 20 points on 6/10 shooting!

    13/4/2014

  23. #119
    yawn cgg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Age
    30
    Posts
    2,955

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    I don't watch Cavs games, but I will say that in a league where Lebron James exists, it's very nice to have a Paul George.

  24. #120
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Johnson's Bay, Lake Wawasee
    Age
    28
    Posts
    5,303

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You could say that for sure - A long time ago, Magic dominated, but then I'd argue if your superstar pointguard is 6'9" then sure, he won't run into the problems that all other points run into. And that is getting shut down and slowed by great defenses.

    Isaiah Thomas is really the only time a dominate traditional point led his team to a title.

    And I'm not saying it is not possible. I'm saying it doesn't happen very much because it is not ideal.

    You can build a team around a dominate center and chances are you're going to win a championship- See every dominate center ever.
    You can build a team around a dominate powerforward and you can win a championship. (ok this actually hasn't happened much- woops!)
    You can build around a dominate SF and win a championship. See nearly every dominate SF ever.
    You can build a team around a dominate 2 guard. See every dominate 2 ever.

    Dominate points? You have Isaiah and Magic. Magic wasn't a traditional point but a 6'9" do everything superstar. Of course he would win. That leaves us with 1 traditional point guard that won.

    The rest didn't. Stockton, Nash, Paul, etc.

    It's not that these players hinder title chances. It's the fact that if you spend all your money one a great point guard, you're probably going to miss out on a key ingredient that almost every championship team has ever had. Some 2-5 player who could score the ball at will, or completely own the opposing team defensively.

    In the future, I'll count PG against any Kyrie team no matter what as long as Kyrie is the best player.. Because worst case scenario they'll just throw PG on Kyrie and slow him down. That's what you can do with a great wing.

    No point has ever had a major effect defensively.
    This post dominants the whole thread.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

  25. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BRushWithDeath For This Useful Post:


  26. #121
    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Dragon's Lair
    Posts
    4,106

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    I find it curious how many people are willing to attribute many of these recent championships to the fact that the best player on the team was an all-important wing, and ignore the fact that those wings are, without exception, the greatest players of their generation. Since Jordan retired, none of those wings who won titles (except Lebron last year, who had another generational level great wing player beside him) did so without the help of an all-time great big man as well. Jordan had a great run, but like Lebron, he also had a great wing player with him as well, but more importantly he was the greatest player of all time.

    It seems to me that what position the best player plays, is mostly irrelevant. It's more about how great that player is, and what kind of team he has around him.

    Saying point guards can't effect the game as much as a wing is just crazy, in my opinion. This question shouldn't be about which position is the most important, point guard or wing. It should be about which player has a chance to turn into the better individual player, Paul George or Kyrie Irving.

  27. #122
    Member owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,299

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This post dominants the whole thread.

    Made me laugh.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to owl For This Useful Post:


  29. #123
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    A-Town , Indiana
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,989

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Paul George all the way , till the wheels fall off.....


    Asking this question is pretty similar to rewinding time , some 20 years ago and asking a Pacers fan ..... Reggie or Isaiah?

    Except in my opinion Paul George is going to end up being the one to have the championship rings when it is all said and done... I don't believe Irving, will be able to be the Cav's "franchise player" and lead Cleveland to a championship. Only way I see a championship in his future, is by pulling a "Lebron" and either going and teaming up with 2 other superstars, or unless he can get them to come play with him.... But that's just my opinion....but YMMV .., and I really enjoy watching him play.... he is dayum good...so don't get me wrong... I just think George is THE full package, and has superstar/franchise player written all over him... I mean damn, he is THIS good already, and I STILL don't see his ceiling yet.... it's crazy... I think the sky's the limit for this kid...


    .
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

  30. #124
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Johnson's Bay, Lake Wawasee
    Age
    28
    Posts
    5,303

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Asking this question is pretty similar to rewinding time , some 20 years ago and asking a Pacers fan ..... Reggie or Isaiah?
    Who in their right mind would pick Reggie?
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

  31. #125
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Troll Hunting
    Age
    26
    Posts
    31,021

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Who in their right mind would pick Reggie?
    Right, see it's not even close. Reggie was all about big moments, but statistically what Paul is doing at 22 is already better than pretty much anything Reggie did save 1 or 2 seasons. Comparing Reggie and Isaiah is just not an argument Reggie can win. Look at some of Isaiah's peak seasons, I think he had a season where he basically averaged 22 and 14 in the mid 80s. That is pretty crazy stuff.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
    momentarygodsblog.com https://twitter.com/momentarygods

Similar Threads

  1. Kyrie Irving fractured hand
    By pacers74 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-16-2012, 07:14 PM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-14-2012, 01:31 AM
  3. Kyrie Irving Video spoof
    By joew8302 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-10-2012, 04:38 PM
  4. Sources: Cavs plan to pick Kyrie Irving
    By 90'sNBARocked in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-20-2011, 09:28 PM
  5. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-13-2005, 04:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •