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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

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"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

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To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

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Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

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  • #91
    Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

    This vote should be closer IMO.

    Kyrie Irving is a tremendous scorer but what else does he do well?

    He is a average passer at the PG position and DOES NOT play DEFENSE at all. Watch on league pass if you dont believe me. One of the bigger liabilities at the point guard position defensively.

    On the other hand, what doesn't Paul George do well?

    I'm not saying I would take George over Irving but its awfully close since Irving is poor defensively and isn't that great at passing the rock. Amazing scorer though.

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

      Originally posted by bshall View Post
      And comparing Kyrie to George Hill is absolutely insane. Irving was better than George Hill the second he was drafted, and that's in any system.
      This is so true. Irving is a STUD. He's so much better than Hill it's not a dicussion.

      But.

      As official PD George Hill apologist, I have to explain why I'd much rather have Hill than Kyrie Irving.

      When it comes to the makeup of a contending team, it is so much easier to contain a pointguard than nearly every other player on the court.

      It's the reason George Hill actually outplayed Kyrie in two prior games this season. Dynamic points like Kyrie will always have that problem of being short, and when they play defenses like the Pacers which you see in the playoffs on the regular, they'll get slowed because of shot blockers and limiting three pointers.

      Vogels D limits three's at all costs so Hill went over the top on PnR's every time forcing Irving to drive either for the open (low quality) jumper or drive to the basket to somehow find a way to shoot over Roy Hibbert. That's just not a recipe for success.

      On the other hand, in nearly every system Hill is a low option that requires minimal defensive attention. As such a physically imposing point guard, he'll always find opportunities to score a reletively efficient 15 points no matter what. He's longer than the opposing points, he's stronger and he'll always have a few open looks from the outside. (because the team is focused on stopping PG, Granger and West).

      Kyrie will always dominate the regular season but come playoff time he's going to struggle to score, unless another major dynamic player can take the pressure off. Is that going to happen when Kyrie is paid huge max contracts? Cleveland will hope so, but we'll have to see.

      Meanwhile, Hill has played with Granger, West, George, Ginobili, Duncan, and Parker. He'll always have the opportunity to play with those guys on that level his entire career.

      Now when you spend your money on a dynamic wing like Paul George, even though he's not on the scoring level of Kyrie, when it comes to slowing down PG in the playoffs it becomes a much difficult task. You're not going to limit open looks from the outside because he's 6'10. You're going to have trouble limiting his looks in the lane because he's 6'10". He's not quite as skilled yet, but really the biggest limit to PG's scoring is himself. It's not like defenders can do a whole lot to slow Paul George down.

      This is the reason I'll take an average PG like Hill/Conley over superstar points. I'll spend my money towards obtaining a superstar wing...

      With that said, Cleveland really has no choice, and it isn't as if it is impossible for them to turn that team into true contenders. Of course they can. I just think it is easier the way the Pacers are going about it.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

        Pretty good arguments here. Anyway, here's my take on this:

        PG and Kyrie are pretty good young players right now that may turn special in the near future. Both have their advantages over the other, it just depends now on how you build the team with them as one of your main core.

        PG has one of the really rare physical gifts for a wing player, and that's why he was drafted so high. He's very tall for a 2-3 wing position, very mobile and athletic, and has very long wingspan that gives him the defensive advantage over other counterparts. It just needs time to develop a player him into one of the premier wing guys in the league as it took him 3 years plus the loss of Danny this year. If you have the time and the ability to invest on a player like him, who has the potential to be a better overall player than Kyrie, then he's the better pick of the two.

        Kyrie on the other hand is holding one of the two highly-valued positions in the NBA (Center being the other). And practically he's NBA ready by the time he was drafted at a very young age compared to PG. He just needs some fine tuning for him to reach CP3-level of success. He may not have the elite-level court vision yet, but his overall offense is already superstar level. Can you imagine a player like him on the current Pacers squad? He'll play PnR or PnP all day long with West or Hibbert and will be the money play on offense. If you want a more ready player then Kyrie is the better choice. Of course, the concern always with Kyrie is his durability, but it's a risk you want to take if you want a point guard that may have the potential to be on par with CP3 in the near future. BTW, CP3 had some troubling injuries back then in NO and right now he's playing one of his best career years as a pro even if he's missing some games this season.

        Now, if I will take one of them to build my team, I will take PG instead of Kyrie simply because of rare physical gifts that may not come until another decade. It's always a risk to bank on raw players as compared to developed guys like Kyrie, but developing raw but physically-gifted players like PG can reward you a league-changing superstar in the future. Think of guys like KG, TMac, Kobe, LeBron (a special case of being physically gifted but at the same time already developed to be NBA ready) and JO (just a few seasons, but still...) are just a few examples. Just remember that rewards from these kinds of guys can only be reaped with patience if you are a GM or coach.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

          Like someone said earlier, when it comes to an Young Wing with Superstar Potential and a Young Point Guard with Superstar Potential, you take the Wing every time, for the simple fact: Name the last time a dynamic Point Guard has won a title. Tony Parker, maybe? Other than that, it's all 2's and 3's that are the guys winning most titles.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

            I think if there were a 3rd option of I like both equally, that would be the winning option. As I had said, I may pull the trigger on the deal but I'd be scared crazy because PG could become an MVP type 2/3, which is better than an MVP type point 1, especially with the Pacers current system. I only really prefer Kyrie because I think he's a safer superstar pick.
            "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

            ----------------- Reggie Miller

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

              I hate you for making me vote against Paul George.

              Comment


              • #97
                More wings win rings because there's more wings. It's just standard probability.

                Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2
                There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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                • #98
                  Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

                  Originally posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
                  I hate you for making me vote against Paul George.
                  I kind of agree with this, but I think the way the question is asked makes me feel better about it. If I had to pick 1 to build around, I would pick Irving. But I think you would have to think hard about it because it's George does as many "how did he do that?" things on defense as Irving does on offense.

                  But if we were to trade George for Irving, would I be happy about it? No way. At least not for a while and I learned to love Irving. But as a fan I believe I am entitled to give the edge to the player that I've grow to enjoy watching already.
                  Time for a new sig.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

                    I could be going crazy here, but I don't understand how anybody can really knock on Kyrie's court vision or passing. You've got to remember, he's starting alongside Gee (a d-leaguer at best) Waiters, who is too raw to be a consistent threat (but I do think will be good in the future) and Thompson who is just...Thompson. Kyrie has great synergy with Varejao, but has only had Varejao for a grand total of about 25 games this whole season. Now he's stuck trying to pass the ball to Zeller, who should absolutely not be starting by any stretch of the imagination. That's a far below average starting lineup and is ultimately quite incapable of taking advantage of Kyrie's ability to pass. We saw the Cavs immediately improve with the Memphis trade, and Speights developing quick synergy with Irving as well. I guess my point is, when you're constantly trying to carry your team and don't have even average talent/skill playing alongside you, your court vision and passing will suffer.

                    I will agree that Irving is an average defender at best, but I don't think its a glaring hole in his game. It just appears to be that way in comparison to his offensive game, which is sick. When you're at the caliber Kyrie is, people are going to nit pick, and that's quite honestly the only flaw people can realistically draw out. I'd personally attribute that partially to his age, and I do think his defense will improve immensely. Furthermore, I don't recall him doing particularly badly, and I don't really recall him getting lit up or absolutely demolished by anybody.

                    Disclaimer: this is just an opinion
                    Peck is basically omniscient when it comes to understanding how the minds of Herb Simon and Kevin Pritchard work. I was a fool to ever question him and now feel deep shame for not understanding that this team believes in continuity above talent.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

                      Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
                      More wings win rings because there's more wings. It's just standard probability.

                      Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2

                      There is some truth to this... However, here is some more simple math for you... Goal is 10ft high. The majority of players are really tall, they protect the rim. There are generally 8 players taller and bigger than my PG and one guarding who is the same size. The evidence shows that the effect ELITISM has on the game in terms of overall relevence of winning championships goes from big to small. It is easier to impact the game the bigger you are because you get to start closer to the basket and you generally tower over everyone. PGs need more help. They understand this, which is why they are the ones who generally have to stalk big men to play with them. Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Gary Payton, the list is full of coat-tail riding PGs. Big men don't search out to play with ball dominating PGs with limited vision and defense. To be considered an ELITE PG you've got to be able to effect the game in a multitude of ways than just filling it up. Kyrie is very good, don't know if he will become ELITE. George is the same, but his more polished tools and his versatility are the difference. Spo understood the advantage that size and defensive versatility brings to your chances of winning. Championship PGs are a dime a dozen...
                      Last edited by *astrisk*; 02-19-2013, 01:48 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

                        I'd take Kyrie because he has "best player in the league potential." My only concern with him is that he seems a little injury-prone.

                        Start at the 1:37 mark of this video. Do we really think Paul could do what Kyrie does to a team as good as OKC here? I doubt he ever will. For those of you who don't feel like watching the video, Kyrie essentially single-handedly handles OKC over the last four minutes. And this has happened several times this season. He's already an elite player.

                        Last edited by rexnom; 02-19-2013, 01:58 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

                          Originally posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
                          More wings win rings because there's more wings. It's just standard probability.

                          Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2
                          Some say Chris Paul may be the greatest point guard ever. He's the best at his position period. He's not going to win a championship this year. Possibly in the future if Blake really raises his game, but that would mean Blake would have to become basically the best PF in the game. Or, the best player on his team and the reason they would win. Why can't CP3 win??

                          Why couldn't two time MVP Steve Nash win if he was so great lead his team to win?

                          The two best SF's in the game will probably be in the finals this year. Over the last 10 years we've seen championship runs by a team who either had the best center, best powerforward, best small forward, best shooting guard, but not once a dominate point...

                          If we were going by odds I'd say it'd at least half to be 1 out of 5 wouldn't it?? Unfortunately Jason Kidd fell short. Steve Nash fell short. Deron Williams (utah) fell short, and Chris Paul has and will fall short.

                          The problem, is if you took every single one of those great teams with great PGs and switched them out with a dominate wing and an average point, the potential of those teams would completely change.
                          Last edited by mattie; 02-19-2013, 02:01 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

                            In a league full of dominate point guards, you would think a dominate point would lead a team to a championship. It just isn't happening.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

                              Didn't Magic Johnson win 5 championships followed by Isiah winning 2? All the while Bird only won 3? What am I missing? A decade of MJ?

                              Comment


                              • Re: Best Young All-Star: PG or Kyrie?

                                Why are Chris Paul and then Rondo considered the 2 ELITE PGs in the NBA? It is because they effect the game multi-dimensionally... Chris Paul is an ELITE scorer, but both have great vision and are ELITE defenders.

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