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Thread: Artest returns to practice this week

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    Default Artest returns to practice this week

    http://www.boston.com/sports/article...ill_exist?pg=2

    Fighting chances still exist
    By Peter May | December 19, 2004

    Today marks the one-month anniversary of The Brawl. Amazingly, life has gone on.

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    There doesn't appear to be any major fallout in terms of fan neglect; the product was doing a good enough job of that as it was. But there's no denying the Detroit-Indiana melee and resulting suspensions impacted the teams involved, one of which, the Pacers, is still trying to recover from having its roster gutted by commissioner David Stern.

    Here's a brief look at what has happened to the teams in the last month. They will meet again Christmas Day in Indiana.

    Detroit: The defending NBA champion lost Big Ben Wallace for six games and has, at times, looked like your classic victim of Post Championship Stress Disorder.

    Heading into the weekend, the Pistons were a ho-hum 12-10, which qualified for fifth best in the Eastern Conference. They've been playing dangerously close to the edge -- just good enough to win -- and in some cases, not even that good. They got crushed at home by Atlanta, after all.

    You need not look too far to get a read on the Pistons' early struggles. They're missing some key reserves from last year's team (Corliss Williamson, Mike James, Mehmet Okur) and the coaching staff turned over (with the exception of Larry Brown, who also missed time with a hip replacement).

    Then there's the Detroit defense. We sure saw it in the second half against Cleveland Thursday night (6 points for the Cavs in the third quarter) but it hasn't been nearly what it was last year. And last year it was the Pistons' raison d'etre.

    In 2003-04, the Pistons ranked first, along with San Antonio, in points allowed, surrendering 84.3 a game. This year, after 22 games, they were third, but were allowing almost 5 more points a game. Last year, the Pistons held opponents to 41.3 percent shooting, third best in the league behind the Spurs and Rockets. This year, they were sixth, allowing teams to shoot 43.1 percent. Last year, they were the best defensive team in the league against the 3-point shot. This year, they were 21st.

    The Pistons had a rocky start last season as well. There was a six-game losing streak in February before and after the All-Star Game. Then Rasheed Wallace came aboard and the Pistons finished 21-6 and won the title. There's still lots of time. Indiana: I said it two weeks ago. I'll say it again. Rick Carlisle is the only choice for Coach of the Month for December. What he has had to endure and deal with on a daily basis borders on the ridiculous. As team president Donnie Walsh said, "It's not that we're just missing the three guys [Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, Stephen Jackson] but he has had games where he's only had six players." Continued...


    The Pacers have put together a patchwork team on the fly. They signed New Orleans Hornets rejects. They brought in old paint Michael Curry. Last week, Jackson and O'Neal got some practice time in. If nothing happens on the legal front, they'll be back in a month or so.

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    As for Artest, the league at first told Indiana that it would not allow Artest to practice. The Pacers thought that overly harsh and asked the league to reconsider. It did. Artest has been given the OK to practice and Walsh said he expects the future Berry Gordy Jr. to be at practice this week.

    The Pacers hit the skids after a brief honeymoon following the suspensions. But they've since gotten back Reggie Miller and Jeff Foster, although other rotation guys (Austin Croshere, Jamaal Tinsley) have been in and out. The Pacers are 0-5 when Tinsley doesn't play.

    Carlisle has kept Indiana focused on the short term and, incredibly, they are still very much in the hunt in the Central Division, trailing leader Cleveland by only 1 1/2 games. They would be the sixth seed had the playoffs started yesterday.

    Walsh is hopeful.

    "Before all this happened, we were playing really well and we were kicking their [rear ends] the night it happened," he said, speaking of the Pacers' convincing win at Detroit Nov. 19. "I thought then that we had as good a chance as anyone to win it all."

    And they still might. We still don't know what the arbitrator is going to say concerning the severity of the suspensions and if they are appealable to someone other than Stern. There remains the possibility that Artest's suspension might be reduced. But even with O'Neal and Jackson coming back, the Pacers will be in the hunt in the East.


    Rising Suns take shine to defense

    What does it say that one of the biggest games of the young season took place Friday between teams that didn't qualify for the playoffs last year?

    The Suns and the Sonics went into the game at Seattle holding the best records in the league. It's hard to take Seattle seriously; the Sonics did lose twice to the Celtics and neither game was close. Then again, TNT bumped Memphis and Detroit off its Jan. 6 telecast in favor of a Seattle-Washington matchup at the MCI Center.

    Phoenix looks to be the real deal in part because it has one of the league's best distributors (Steve Nash) on a roster loaded with finishers. The Suns also are paying more than just lip service to defense, even as they search for that elusive big man ("That's a 30-year quest, by the way," CEO Jerry Colangelo said recently). Continued...


    We have a lot of talent," said third-year Sun Casey Jacobsen, who is almost the senior Sun (Shawn Marion has that distinction) on a dramatically retooled roster. "But what I've discovered is that all teams have talent. The trick is to get that talent to play together and, so far, we've figured out how to play unselfishly and how to play defensively."

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    The Suns are fun to watch. They are the runaway league leaders in points. They also lead in field goal shooting and are second in 3-point shooting.

    But here's what you might now know: They're doing a decent job at the other end. The Suns lead the league in shot blocking and were holding teams to the fourth-lowest shooting percentage and second-lowest 3-point shooting percentage heading into the weekend.

    And to make things even more bizarre, they're the youngest team (average age: 24.3 years with eight players born in the 1980s) in a league known for eating its young. Concludes Jacobsen, "It's all pretty amazing."


    Celtics need wins to inspire comebacks

    If the FleetCenter was able to identify the fans who left Wednesday's game with 2:46 remaining and the Celtics down by 5, those individuals should be banned from pro basketball for life.

    But given the way the Celtics are drawing, they need every fan they can get, even if it's a witless one.

    There's been a downward trend in attendance over the last three years at Celtics games. In 2002-03, the team averaged a reasonably healthy 17,294 at home, helped by the unexpected run to the conference finals the year before. The team sold out 19 of its 41 games and had only three crowds of fewer than 14,000.

    Last year, attendance dropped, by more than 1,000 per game to 16,201, as did the number of sellouts, from 19 to 11. In addition, there were eight games of fewer than 14,000 and two of those were games in which fewer than 13,000 attended.

    This year, there already have been three crowds of fewer than 14,000 and only two sellouts, opening night against the Sixers and the night after Thanksgiving against the Cavaliers. The average home attendance is 15,323.

    What will bring the fans back? More gimmicks? More and louder noise prompts? Cheerleaders? A bigger Jumbotron? Fireworks? "Winning," says coach Doc Rivers. "I know the fans are out there. We have to win to get them back." He's right.


    Etc.

    Coach's decision: Snow removal

    Cleveland coach Paul Silas went ballistic during Thursday night's loss to the Pistons. His target: backup point guard Eric Snow. Silas put Snow into the game, then yanked him a minute later when the Cavaliers turned the ball over on an eight-second violation. The two snapped at each other and Silas got so livid he ordered Snow off the bench and back to the locker room. (Snow did return and sat on the bench in the second half.) No one addressed the issue afterward. Said Silas, "I don't want to hear his name." Continued...


    Fox laughs off return rumor

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    We noted that Indiana has looked under rocks and turned over manhole covers in its search for players to fill out its roster until everyone (or almost everyone) comes back. There was a rumor that one of those who volunteered for emergency Pacers service was old friend Rick Fox, now retired. Was it true? "No," said Fox via e-mail. "I had a friend who is still dying to see me return to basketball who knows Larry [Bird] and said he was going to call. The only way I come back is if Karl [Malone] signs with the Lakers." He was kidding. He's also getting a chuckle at the unending soap opera that still evolves around his former team. "And we all thought I was at the core of the issues with the Lakers," he joked.

    Fit to beat Kings

    Speaking of the Lakers, they went into Sacramento Thursday night and vaporized the Kings, handing them their worst home loss in six years. It marked the first time this season that the Lakers had beaten any of the top four teams in the Western Conference. While Kobe Bryant continues his assault on the league scoring title, the Lakers, through 22 games, were 9-9 in games in which he led them in points. They were 4-0 in the others, including one in LA against Orlando in which Chris Mihm and Jumaine Jones each dropped 25 on the Magic. Mihm also had 14 rebounds. Why can't we, oh, never mind.

    It's about time: Houston wants more

    Allan Houston is back with the Knicks, who are easing him into games. In his first four outings, Houston, who had been recovering from knee woes, played no more than 21 minutes. But in Game 4, when he logged those 21, he also scored 17 points in a 1-point loss last week to the Pistons. Now, he wants more time. Friday night, he played 27 minutes and scored 15 points, including a 3-pointer that forced overtime in a victory over Philadelphia. The Knicks may decide to move him to small forward so as not to break up the starting backcourt of Stephon Marbury and Jamal Crawford. Meanwhile, Vin Baker has disappeared from the rotation, which says a lot given the state of the Knicks' front line. Baker logged DNPs against the Nuggets, Knicks, and Pistons, which prompted the obligatory cries of outrage from his agent, Aaron Goodwin. He played two minutes Friday.

    Williams's return a short story

    Is there anyone in the NBA family unhappier now than Eric Williams? (OK, maybe Alonzo Mourning.) Williams, the ex-Celtic, was feeling at home with the Nets, finally back in his native sod, and then he got traded to Toronto in the Vince Carter deal Friday. Mourning was in the deal as well. Earlier this season, Williams talked about how much fun it was finally being back home again. "The phone is ringing all the time," he said. "It's weird, but it's fun. I haven't been back here since high school and I'm trying to get readjusted. But it's cool." Williams leaves the Nets having played a role in one of the more memorable meltdowns ever. His 3-pointer with 6:04 remaining in the third quarter of last week's game against the Knicks gave New Jersey a 62-58 lead. The next New Jersey basket came on a Jason Kidd hoop with 3:01 left in the game. You are reading this correctly. The Nets went more than 15 minutes without a basket. In that stretch, they went 0 for 17 from the field and added 13 turnovers to boot. They did make five free throws, however . . . Still exhausted from their double-overtime loss to the Celtics last Monday, the Clippers had to play in Utah the next night. Predictably, the Jazz won. The Clippers are 1-30 in their last 31 visits to Salt Lake City. Dennis Rodman had more luck there.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...7_allen19.html


    Game changes as TV crew is thrust into a brawl



    Percy Allen / NBA reporter






    AP

    ESPN video of a player-fan brawl on Nov. 19 at the Palace of Auburn Hills will serve as crucial evidence in upcoming trials. Prosecutors charged five Indiana Pacers and five fans with assault and battery, including a felony charge for one fan.


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    The flurry of activity inside the television truck parked outside of the Palace of Auburn Hills suddenly intensified, then it stopped.

    The usual chatter between the director of the camera operators and the production crew grew louder, then everything went silent.

    "Hey, it's a fight!" someone shouted inside the truck after Ben Wallace shoved Ron Artest in the chest during the final seconds of the Detroit-Indiana game Nov. 19.

    What happened next a cup of liquid thrown from the stands, an All-Star on a rampage and a melee between fans and players were perhaps the most frightening moments ever captured on video at a sporting event.

    "When the foul happened and Ben reacted with his push, there was a loud noise, it got loud in the truck," said ESPN producer Ed Feibischoff. "Everybody was concentrating on what was happening on the court.

    "Then when Artest went into the crowd, it became silent. It was a hush. It was different. You felt it. Everybody knew this was different. This was not something that you were used to, and I was the only voice that I could hear.

    "They were waiting for me to react. We became instantly a news organization as opposed to covering a sporting event. We strapped in and said, 'Guys, this is now a news story and our job here is to report the news.' "

    Feibischoff studied television communication and journalism at the University of Buffalo and has been in the business for the past 23 years.

    Before joining ESPN, he worked 19 years at NBC and produced segments in five Olympics. He covered the Dream Team in 1992, swimming and diving at the 2000 Sydney Games and speedskating in '02.

    Since 1991, the 47-year-old Queens, N.Y., native has worked every NBA Finals and he has produced the past five.

    His proudest moment behind the camera, he will say, was eloquently filming Maurice Cheeks when the Portland Trail Blazers coach helped the little girl who forgot the words to the national anthem before a playoff game last season.

    "This was on the other end of that extreme," Feibischoff said. "It was horror. Just disturbing."

    The violent images on the wall of monitors inside the dark truck streamed in from the cameras inside the arena. There was so much noise and confusion. Bodies moving quickly. Objects flying. A flash here. A glimpse there. Someone said they spotted a chair being thrown.

    Feibischoff is a sports guy with no real experience in hard news. He'd covered the Ben Johnson steroid scandal, but this was different.

    Everything was happening so quickly. ESPN doesn't have a five-second tape delay like the networks, so there was no time for planning, and suddenly he realized that nothing he'd ever done had prepared him for this moment.

    "My direction were simple," Feibischoff said. "Watch your camera. Watch your machines. Mark down and take your notes. We have to document this from beginning to the end.

    "We walked through the replays. We counted off the order, starting with the foul. What happened to get Ron Artest into the crowd? As it was happening live, the best thing to do is stay a little bit wide."

    In Bristol, Conn., Jamie Reynolds, a senior coordinating producer for ESPN, was on the phone with producers in Sacramento, which was the site of the second game of that night's doubleheader. They would have to wait, he told them.

    Reynolds also placed a call to people in the NBA offices in Secaucus, N.J., to make sure they were seeing what he was seeing.

    The league's relationship with the cable network has been solid since they entered into a six-year contract along with TNT that will pay the NBA $3.4 billion. But he wanted them to know that ESPN planned to cover the brawl like a news event.

    Meanwhile, the melee raged on in Detroit.

    Director Jim Moore, who has been with ESPN for at least 10 years and works college basketball games and Sunday night baseball, instructed his camera operators to ensure their welfare before advancing into harm's way.

    Still, at least one operator was a few feet away from the two men in Pistons jerseys who walked on the court and confronted Artest.

    And one cameraman was nearly hit by the chair that was thrown into the crowd, but Feibischoff said no one was injured.

    He spoke to Mike Breen, the play-by-play announcer, analyst Bill Walton, and sideline reporter Jim Gray and told them to keep the opinions to a minimum.

    "Just gather the facts," he said. "Don't jump to conclusions and save the analysis for later."

    For 20 minutes, Feibischoff used all of the technology the eight camera operators, two robotic cameras and 13 replay machines at his disposal to capture a video clip that has been replayed more than any other this year.

    His footage will be the most important piece of evidence in the upcoming trials against the five fans and five players charged by Oakland County prosecutors with assault and battery. All were misdemeanor charges, except for a felony charge for the alleged chair-thrower.

    It will be a case study for years to come on how to cover violence at sporting events, and basketball games will never be the same again.

    "I'm not proud about the event, just happy of the job the crew did," Feibischoff said. "In looking back, we basically gave you almost everything. Nobody missed anything that night. In a sad way, I'm happy to say that. We emptied our bucket. There wasn't anything we held out."

  3. #3
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Good to hear Ron can start practise again, the second article is more of one in the line of "keep the mindset on what Ron and the other Indy players did to those innocent Piston fans"

    I am 100% sure worse things happened in American sports and to say:

    What happened next a cup of liquid thrown from the stands, an All-Star on a rampage and a melee between fans and players were perhaps the most frightening moments ever captured on video at a sporting event.
    is perhaps so outrageously nonsensical that it deserves a price just for that.

    Perhaps the "author" isn't aware that at other "events" several people ended up in hospital and more players were chasing fans? (baseball) or the large count of dead people at several football matches in South America or in Bruxels (Belgium) when fans crushed other fans?

    The revisionists are having a field day
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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Good to hear Ron can start practise again, the second article is more of one in the line of "keep the mindset on what Ron and the other Indy players did to those innocent Piston fans"

    I am 100% sure worse things happened in American sports and to say:


    is perhaps so outrageously nonsensical that it deserves a price just for that.

    Perhaps the "author" isn't aware that at other "events" several people ended up in hospital and more players were chasing fans? (baseball) or the large count of dead people at several football matches in South America or in Bruxels (Belgium) when fans crushed other fans?

    The revisionists are having a field day
    Then again, this is coming from a poster who thinks Ron Artest's actions were completely justified. A poster who thinks Ron Artest did nothing wrong. A poster who thinks Ron Artest was an innocent victim.

    So pardon me if I take your "opinion" with a grain of salt.

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    It becomes clear with this post that your reading comprehension is at best below kindergarten level.

    There are some good books around on the difference between opinion and fact, one of them is the Oxford Dictionary, I suggest you look it up.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Very true, Able!
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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    It becomes clear with this post that your reading comprehension is at best below kindergarten level.

    There are some good books around on the difference between opinion and fact, one of them is the Oxford Dictionary, I suggest you look it up.
    No problem. Straight from askoxford.com.

    opinion

    noun 1 a view or judgement not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. 2 the beliefs or views of people in general: public opinion. 3 an estimation of quality or worth. 4 a formal statement of advice by an expert or professional.

    fact

    noun 1 a thing that is indisputably the case. 2 (facts) information used as evidence or as part of a report.

    Your statement "the second article is more of one in the line of "keep the mindset on what Ron and the other Indy players did to those innocent Piston fans"" is an OPINION, not a FACT. I agree with the rest of your post, btw.

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    As someone who watched this happen live, I wouldn't at all bash the event being called frightening. It was. I was scared watching it, and talking with others that night, I know I'm not alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    "Hey, it's a fight!" someone shouted inside the truck after Ben Wallace shoved Ron Artest in the chest during the final seconds of the Detroit-Indiana game Nov. 19.
    It's sickening to see that the media is trying to change everyone's memory over time with statement like this and make sure the Big Bad Ron image stays. Ben shoved Artest in the throat, not chest.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    20,000 drunk Pistons fans? Yeah, I'd be terrified.

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    Wink Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Remember guys, you gotta think about the little 12 year old kids and the old people that witnessed that horrific event.
    Sorry, I didn't know advertising was illegal here. Someone call the cops!

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Scary though it might have looked, some of us have seen things happens before their eyes, or on television that make the writer in casu an afront to serious people.

    For those not familiar with the 1985 "Heizel Disaster" in Belgium:

    Liverpool vs Juventus, Championsleague final (what is now) Italian Fans mocked Liverpool fans, the latter charged, charged again, the first panicked, results; 38 dead, hundreds wounded.

    Live on television, before the eyes of 100's of millions of viewers.

    Anyone really want to compare the two?

    Ans I'm not even citing the baseball events that were worse then this and televised, or stands collasping in Brazil, with hundreds of deads, though that was not "riot" related, it was at a sporting event shown live on television.

    http://www.searchspaniel.com/index.p...adium_disaster

    facts.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Able, those who want the Palace affair to be the greatest sports disaster ever aren't going to be concerned with facts.

    The worst injuries sustained in Detroit that night to my knowledge were Jamaal Tinsley's mysterious wrist injury and Mark Boyle's facial cut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    The worst injuries sustained in Detroit that night to my knowledge were Jamaal Tinsley's mysterious wrist injury and Mark Boyle's facial cut.
    There was also the ref that got hit with a bottle.

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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    Able, those who want the Palace affair to be the greatest sports disaster ever aren't going to be concerned with facts.

    The worst injuries sustained in Detroit that night to my knowledge were Jamaal Tinsley's mysterious wrist injury and Mark Boyle's facial cut.
    Excuse my paranoia, but you're not refering to me are you? I hope not.

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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    Able, those who want the Palace affair to be the greatest sports disaster ever aren't going to be concerned with facts.

    The worst injuries sustained in Detroit that night to my knowledge were Jamaal Tinsley's mysterious wrist injury and Mark Boyle's facial cut.
    Mark got the cut after Ron ran him over.

    By the way, I wonder if everyone would still feel the same if a knife would have been thrown at Ron's face instead of a cup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manuel
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    Mark got the cut after Ron ran him over.

    By the way, I wonder if everyone would still feel the same if a knife would have been thrown at Ron's face instead of a cup.
    Well, first of all, no fan is going to be allowed into the building with a knife. That's why they wand you.

    But, let's address the question. If the fan had thrown a knife, theoretically if it landed right, couldn't it, theoretically, have killed Artest, or at least severely injured him (or someone else). I'm talking worst-case here. Maybe someone with legal knowledge could help here, but couldn't that be construed as attempted murder? And with the criminal history that fan had, he'd be in jail for a long, long time. And the perception would definitely be far different.

    Artest should have never laid on that table. It's inexcusable (unless the excuse is "I'm acting like a jerk and showing up the other team." Then I suppose it's excusable). Professional athletes need to be able to take booing, and even heckling, as long as it doesn't turn too personal. But under no circumstances should any professional athlete ever have anything thrown at them.

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    If you think there is no way a knife could not be snuck in you are very mistaken. They don't wandf everybody and in fact before 11/19, they did not wand anybody.

    At the Pacers game Fri night they wanded every 3rd or 4th person

    As far as Artest should not have sat on the scorers table, do you suggest he push the ref out of the way, the ref that put him there\

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    If you think there is no way a knife could not be snuck in you are very mistaken. They don't wandf everybody and in fact before 11/19, they did not wand anybody.

    At the Pacers game Fri night they wanded every 3rd or 4th person

    As far as Artest should not have sat on the scorers table, do you suggest he push the ref out of the way, the ref that put him there\
    I got into the Clips/Pacers game with a leatherman Wave, which has two 4" razor sharp blades. i forgot I was wearing it until I set off the metal detector. the guy asked me what it was. I replied "its a multi-tool" he opened it up and looked at it for a while. I was ready to walk back to the car with it when he handed it back to me. His exact words: "you can go ahead, have a good night."

    Not only can it happen, it DID happen. Just days after the fight in Detroit. At a Pacers game. And it was me.

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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    If you think there is no way a knife could not be snuck in you are very mistaken. They don't wandf everybody and in fact before 11/19, they did not wand anybody.

    At the Pacers game Fri night they wanded every 3rd or 4th person

    As far as Artest should not have sat on the scorers table, do you suggest he push the ref out of the way, the ref that put him there\
    I'll admit I'm wrong on the knife thing. As for the table, are you suggesting the official went to Artest and told him "Ron, you go lie on the scorer's table. Nothing can happen to you there." Please. Where can I buy those blue and gold glasses you're wearing? In all my years of watching the NBA, I've never seen any player lie on the scorer's table. I've seen them sit there with their back turned to the crowd, or turned to do an interview, but never lying there like Artest was.

    If Artest stays on the court, the combined suspensions for Pacer players is reduced by 133 games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shags
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    I'll admit I'm wrong on the knife thing. As for the table, are you suggesting the official went to Artest and told him "Ron, you go lie on the scorer's table. Nothing can happen to you there." Please. Where can I buy those blue and gold glasses you're wearing? In all my years of watching the NBA, I've never seen any player lie on the scorer's table. I've seen them sit there with their back turned to the crowd, or turned to do an interview, but never lying there like Artest was.

    If Artest stays on the court, the combined suspensions for Pacer players is reduced by 133 games.

    I think you need to go back and watch the tape again, first the ref I'll say assisted Artest to the scorers table, then Reggie took over and helped Artest stay there and then assistant coach Forcier was pattting Artest on the arm or chest telling him to stay on the scorers table.

    Seemed everyone wanted Artest to stay on the table. I the refs do there job and throw Ben out of the game like they are supposed to, and get the teams separated like they are supposed to, then Artest wcould have gotten off the scorers table.

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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I think you need to go back and watch the tape again, first the ref I'll say assisted Artest to the scorers table, then Reggie took over and helped Artest stay there and then assistant coach Forcier was pattting Artest on the arm or chest telling him to stay on the scorers table.

    Seemed everyone wanted Artest to stay on the table. I the refs do there job and throw Ben out of the game like they are supposed to, and get the teams separated like they are supposed to, then Artest wcould have gotten off the scorers table.
    Unfortunately, I don't have a tape of it (and boy do I wish I did). I think I'd want that as much as the Pistons' finals wins. I'm not sure what that says about me, so let's just move on.

    I'll believe the refs told Artest to go to the scorers' table. Unless you provide a link (or I see the tape again), I'll never believe the officials told Artest to lie on the scorers' table. Artest did that on his own, and yes, there's a difference.

    Another thing. Ben Wallace WAS NOT getting to Ron Artest. It wasn't happening. There were too many players, coaches, and officials between the two. Artest could have stuck his tongue out at him, shook his finger at him, waved mockingly at him, etc., etc., and it wouldn't have mattered. Ben wasn't getting to him.

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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    We have the video available on our server, shags.

    I believe this is the URL:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/pacerspistonsfight.wmv

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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    We have the video available on our server, shags.

    I believe this is the URL:

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/pacerspistonsfight.wmv
    Thanks, Hicks. I hadn't seen that in a month. I'm still shaking my head. Unbelievable.

    After watching it several times, I stand by what I said. Artest was pushed by the official to the scorers' table, but he chose to sit on the scorers' table. It definitely looked like Reggie kept him on the table too, but there's no way Reggie could have anticipated anything from the fans. But there's a spot there where you could see Larry Brown (about the 1:30 mark) apparently yelling at the refs to get him off the table. Good foreshadowing there.

    There's some other things I forgot about too. Mike Brown stopping Ben from getting to Artest when he was the only guy between the two. Ben's brother standing right behind Artest while he was laying down. The reason Jermaine got suspended 25 games, by throwing the security guard over the table (along with the punch). And I think you could have gotten 4 diehard Pacer fans to give more balanced analysis than the ESPN crew did.

    Wow. Thanks again.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Artest returns to practice this week

    What is the big issue with sitting or laying on the scorers table??? How's does that in any way get confused with taunting?

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