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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

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  • LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

    HOUSTON — It shouldn’t, but the sound bite virtually always trumps the fuller narrative.That’s a modern media fact of life and it’s especially true at a saturated carnival like All-Star weekend and during a free-for-all availability in which questions sometimes sound like pick-up lines and shout-outs are requested in three or four languages simultaneously. LeBron James has been in front of enough cameras and dealt with immense fame for long enough that he was ready to deliver his lines with ease when the inevitable topic was raised on Friday.

    “That’s his own opinion,” James said of Michael Jordan’s recent statement that he would pick Kobe Bryant over James on the basis of the Lakers guard’s five championships. “At the end of the day, rings [don't] always define someone’s career.

    “If that was the case, then I would sit up here and say I would take [Bill] Russell over Jordan. I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t take Russell over Jordan. Russell has 11 rings, Jordan has six. Take, I don’t know, Robert Horry over Kobe. I wouldn’t do that. It’s your own personal opinion. Rings [do] not define a person’s career.”

    This was a clever, almost senatorial maneuver: James answered the question, shifted the discussion and briefly distracted a five-deep pack of reporters that surrounded him.

    “You look at a guy like [former Bulls reserve] Jud Buechler, he has multiple rings, Charles Barkley does not have one ring,” James continued. “He’s not better than Charles Barkley. Patrick Ewing is one of the greatest of all time, Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time. Sometimes it’s about the situation you’re in, the team you’re in and it’s about timing as well.”

    That sound bite was followed by another, in which he tried to play off Jordan’s comments.

    “I don’t play the game and try to define who I am over what guys say or how they feel about me,” he said. “It doesn’t matter to me. I play for my family, I play for my teammates, I play for our coaching staff and I play for our fans, that’s it.”


    LeBron’s sound bites, politically crafted and politically correct, served their specific purpose, providing a rebuttal to Jordan’s widely circulated comments. The fuller context — in this case, still only 30 minutes of questions and answers — rendered the sound bites wholly unconvincing. The extended conversation gave the impression that James not only cares about the comparisons but that he cares deeply, and implied that he particularly cares about Jordan’s opinion. What other impression could be reached after listening to James rattle off his favorite Jordan moments, in honor of MJ’s upcoming 50th birthday, in rapid-fire succession?


    “I’ve got 50 of them, s— I’ve got 100 of them,” James said. “I’ve got so many memories of MJ. You name it. From the shoes, to him flying through the air, to him hitting the threes against the Blazers, to him being on the TV screen with Bugs Bunny. From him jumping over the buildings in a suit in the commercials. To him hitting the golf ball, swinging the baseball bat, so many memories. Him having the [ProStars] cartoon, you guys remember that? … I’ve got so many memories. MJ was an inspiration to me growing up.”


    Not only an inspiration but, he admitted, but a full-fledged hero.


    “You always tried to look for someone that was a superhero or someone who was beyond life,” James said. “Mine was Batman, mine was Transformers and Michael Jordan. Growing up those were the ones. I was like, I wish I could transform into this, I wish I could fly like Michael Jordan, or propel like Batman does.”


    Does James, who so openly idolizes Jordan as an adult and who wore No. 23 in high school and in Cleveland, really expect anyone to believe that Jordan’s assessment of his progress doesn’t matter to him? As James’ friend Jay-Z would say, “We don’t believe you, you need more people.”

    But this has morphed past simply validation-seeking now that James has claimed his first title and could very well add a second in a few months. Because just as easily as he made his respect for Jordan known, James didn’t blink in putting a target on his back.

    “I want to be the greatest of all time,” James declared, adding later: “As my talent continued to grow, as I continued to know about the game, appreciate the game, continued to get better, I felt like I had the drive, first of all, the passion, the commitment to the game to place myself as the greatest of all time, the best of all time, however you want to categorize it. I don’t do it to say I’m better than this guy or that guy. I do it for my own inspiration. I inspire myself. When I go out on the floor, I want to be the best of all time. That’s how I help myself each and every night.”


    The logical next question, then: How will he ultimately decide that he’s achieved his goal? Surely championships — rings — would be among the criteria, right? Does James have a checklist, a la a young Tiger Woods, who methodically tracked his progress alongside golf’s greats? What are the mileposts he is striving to hit?


    “Nope, nope, nope, nope,” James said, unwilling to reveal any details. “If I go out and play at a high level, those things will take care of themselves.”

    The fuller narrative, of course, reminds us that James values winning above everything. “It’s about damn time,” he declared after securing his first title last June. The previous year, after losing to the Mavericks in the Finals, he told reporters that he barely left his house for more than a week, such was his despair. How are we to reasonably believe the spirit of his sound bite — that rings aren’t critically important in judging greatness — when we have clear and convincing evidence of how much he personally values them?

    Moreover, the fuller narrative between James and Jordan, even in just this half-hour window, grew so complicated and intertwined that it became difficult to keep up. To summarize: James disputed Jordan’s standard for comparing him to Bryant; claimed he doesn’t seek Jordan’s validation; ranked Jordan over Russell; spoke openly about how he idolized Jordan as a child; and stated clearly that he wants to be the best player ever, which would push Jordan, Bryant and everyone else to the side.

    Eventually James conceded — not dejectedly but not eagerly, either — that these comparisons, for as long as they have already raged, are only just beginning.

    “That’s the life,” he said. “I understand it. That’s the life I live in. The comparisons are going to come. I’d rather be compared to Michael Jordan than somebody who wasn’t in the league very long. It’s very humbling. I’m grateful for the opportunity I’ve been given. Mike is in his own lane and I try to create my own.”


    What happens if and when James gets his second title? His fifth? His sixth? What happens if and when he passes Jordan — and Bryant — on the all-time scoring chart? What happens if and when he hits statistical peaks for career points, rebounds and assists that have never been achieved by the same player? What happens when he’s 50, like Jordan will be on Sunday, looking back on his career with the next generation of stars going after his records?

    “How do I want to be remembered when I’m 50?” James asked rhetorically. “I’m 28 years old, I ain’t thinking about that.”
    There it was, one last unconvincing sound bite. He wants to be the greatest and, like any man, he wants his due. Jordan won’t yet give it to him, but James is savvy enough not to whine about it and smart enough to make his case on the court. The fuller narrative suggests that the comparisons will be even more difficult and more complicated five years from now. Friday’s full narrative suggested that James knows that better than anyone.
    Complete article HERE.

  • #2
    Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

    I mean LBJ is a pretty good dude, I don't mind him as a player and respect the game he plays. The reason I don't like the Heat is because of the "fans" and Dwayne Wade, my oh my how I would love to just punch that guy in the face

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

      If he thinks rings are so unimportant, why did he join 2 "budding" stars?
      Originally posted by Piston Prince
      Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
      "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

        HAHA beautiful.

        James just killed MJ. Everything he said is true. And I'll say the same thing I told my cousin last night when he repeated MJ's comments. Of course MJ would say Kobe is better. Because at the end of the day, no rational person could EVER say Kobe is the player MJ was. It's a stupid debate. MJ is flat out better than Kobe in every possible aspect of the game.

        The problem with admitting LBJ's greatness? LBJ is quicker, stronger, more athletic, a better defender, a better passer than MJ ever was. At the end of his career we'll probably all say LBJ was the greatest to play the game.

        MJ is imtimidated by LBJ. And he should be. LBJ already has a ring at a younger age than MJ, so he could possibly end up with as many rings as well. (which would just be nuts if he was able to pull that off as well)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

          Originally posted by yoadknux View Post
          If he thinks rings are so unimportant, why did he join 2 "budding" stars?
          He said they don't define who a player is. That's why we don't refer to Sam Jones as the greatest guard ever.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

            Nothing more ridiculous than preaching about the greatness of Kobe because of his ridiculously fortunate career, while destroying 'Melo because he's extremely unfortunate. Championships are not how you define players' greatness.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

              To me, rings are for tie-breaking debates between players that belong in the same class/tier with one another.

              Derek Fisher was not a better player than Reggie Miller because he had all of those rings and Reggie never had any, but if you want to break a tie between a comparison or debate of two top-tier guys (like Kobe and LeBron), I think that's a fair way to pick somebody, even if it's flawed. I mean give 2007-2009 Lebron a 2000-2002 Shaq teammate and he probably wins three rings then, you know?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

                Put LBJ in Kobe's shoes and he wins maybe 10, maybe 15 rings.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

                  Originally posted by mattie View Post
                  Nothing more ridiculous than preaching about the greatness of Kobe because of his ridiculously fortunate career, while destroying 'Melo because he's extremely unfortunate. Championships are not how you define players' greatness.
                  I Would not say that up until this year, Melo has ever been considered having "greatness" He was a very selfish player in Denver who didn't play defense and called his own number way too much. He hits tough shots, but he doesn't always make the correct basketball play. Everyone can agree that LBJ is making the correct basketball play to win games and not just chucking up tough shots.

                  I do agree that Kobe has had an unbelievably fortunate career. With out Shaq on board, there is no way Kobe gets this level of hype or respect.
                  You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

                    Originally posted by graphic-er View Post
                    I Would not say that up until this year, Melo has ever been considered having "greatness" He was a very selfish player in Denver who didn't play defense and called his own number way too much. He hits tough shots, but he doesn't always make the correct basketball play. Everyone can agree that LBJ is making the correct basketball play to win games and not just chucking up tough shots.

                    I do agree that Kobe has had an unbelievably fortunate career. With out Shaq on board, there is no way Kobe gets this level of hype or respect.
                    The point, is had 'melo been as fortunate as Kobe, then we would talk completely different about him.

                    If Kobe has been in 'Melo shoes, he'd be criticized for his defensive effort and selfishness for his entire career.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

                      Originally posted by MAStamper View Post
                      To me, rings are for tie-breaking debates between players that belong in the same class/tier with one another.

                      Derek Fisher was not a better player than Reggie Miller because he had all of those rings and Reggie never had any, but if you want to break a tie between a comparison or debate of two top-tier guys (like Kobe and LeBron), I think that's a fair way to pick somebody, even if it's flawed. I mean give 2007-2009 Lebron a 2000-2002 Shaq teammate and he probably wins three rings then, you know?
                      That's exactly how I see it too.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

                        Originally posted by mattie View Post
                        Put LBJ in Kobe's shoes and he wins maybe 10, maybe 15 rings.
                        This is only LeBron's 10th year. How could he have 15 rings?
                        Last edited by shags; 02-16-2013, 12:40 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

                          Originally posted by mattie View Post
                          The point, is had 'melo been as fortunate as Kobe, then we would talk completely different about him.

                          If Kobe has been in 'Melo shoes, he'd be criticized for his defensive effort and selfishness for his entire career.
                          I don't think so, i've never seen Kobe as a player who doesn't bring it defensively. Kobe is far more of a tactician than a Player like Melo.
                          You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

                            Originally posted by shags View Post
                            This is only LeBron 10th year. How could he have 15 rings?
                            Put LBJ in Kobe's shoes...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: LeBron James Scrutiny | "Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time."

                              Originally posted by mattie View Post
                              Put LBJ in Kobe's shoes...
                              Oh I see. While I'm at it, can I put Chris Paul in Derek Fisher's shoes, or is that just ridiculous?

                              Comment

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