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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

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  • #16
    Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Seth, I take it you don't want to answer my question?
    Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

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    • #17
      Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams



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      • #18
        Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

        Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
        What the F*** are you talking about? This isn't on your side.

        THE GAMES WERE ALREADY SOLD OUT BEFORE WE KNEW MANNING WOULDN'T PLAY. That's what season ticket sell-out means. It means that a SB caliber team with a new stadium sells 60K tickets back at the end of the previous season...you know, when Manning was going for another MVP run and was going to play here till he retired. So they were assured of no blackouts back in FEB or MAR, long before Manning was done.


        And to get that list of season ticket buyers and wait list they had to make 2 SuperBowls and just miss a couple of perfect seasons.



        Then all it took was A) the number one pick in the draft and a guy considered "once in a lifetime" as a QB prospect and B) a series of surprising wins.

        They were NOT SOLD OUT in the summer. They were overbooked by 25% (125% of stadium capacity wanted seats) to about 85% when the Manning trade news came out.

        Had they kept Curtis Painter due to a tough draft spot then they 100% would have blacked out games based on the prior season's results.

        And I went to a couple of those Painter games and that place was not full. If they'd offered money back to ticket holders without losing their right to buy in the future then they 100% would have blacked out games last year (ie, give them the option to not pay for the 2-14 team).
        Fair point about 2011. But 2012 is completely on my side. All you have is "if this wouldn't have happened, and if this wouldn't have happened, and if this wouldn't have happened, then we wouldn't have sold out." No one knew that the Colts were going to go 11-5 when we played the Vikings in September, but the game sold out. No one knew that the Colts were going to go 11-5 when we played the lowly Jags in September, but the game sold out. The Colts were 2-3 when they played the lowly Browns in October, yet the game still sold out.

        87% of the ticket holders renewed despite us going 2-14 and then cutting one of the most legendary players ever. And who cares if the games aren't sold out in the summer? Are games blacked out based on selling tickets in the summer? All that matters is if they are sold out at game time, which they were.

        You have to go back a decade to find a flaw in the fanbase. I have 9 years of goodwill from fans on my side.

        Besides, my point was never that Indy fans weren't fickle. My point has been that they are the same as people anywhere else, and that it gets magnified because we are such a small market and don't have millions of extra people to pull from.

        I showed how pitiful Pats attendance was in the early 90's before Kraft bought the team. Multiple games in the twenty and thirty thousands.

        I showed that the Celtics had worse attendance than the Pacers in 2005, despite having a larger arena in a much larger city. The Celtics are the most successful team in league history. That shouldn't ever happen. The fact is, they didn't care about the Celts again until Ticket and Ray arrived.

        Detroit and Philly have had pitiful attendance in recent years, despite being huge areas.

        The Heat had some poor attendance a decade ago despite playing in a large wealthy area.

        My problem isn't that you accuse Indy fans of being fickle, it's that you act as if we are the only fickle fans on the planet.

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        • #19
          Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

          Originally posted by BillS View Post
          He's talking about when those teams play here, not about their home sellouts.
          Whoops.

          My point about the Heat is still important though. Bad attendance in the early 2000's despite being a massive rich area.

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          • #20
            Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

            the Lisa Olsen incident of 1990 did to Patriots attendance what the brawl did to Pacers attendance.

            The day after the Patriots' only victory of the season, tight end Zeke Mowatt, running back Robert Perryman and wide receiver Michael Timpson stood in front of Boston Globe reporter Lisa Olson semi-naked and sexually harassed her in the Patriots’ locker room at Foxboro Stadium. The incident proved a major embarrassment for the franchise, and the team lost its final 14 games, and was accused of quitting in most of the losses.
            As that scandal erupted, the city (with some justification) labeled the team as a group of thugs. The main newspaper in town had the reporter who was the victim of the thuggery- imagine how much that helped! Them being 5-11 the year before and 1-15 didn't help any either, as the year went on. That was a huge black eye that was not removed until Kraft bought the team and brought in Bill Parcells plus totally upgraded the ability of fans to get there. Before about 1995, any crowd over 30K caused literally hours of traffic jams before and after the game on the two lane highway (!) that was the only access road at the time, and that had no interstate nearby either, at the time.

            It took winning over a new generation of fans with winning and a positive in-the-building experience. I don't think many of the 80s-era Patriots fans ever came back, frankly- they wrote off the team for good as thugs. Their kids did start coming, though.

            The Pacers can do the same but it may take a lot of success and a lot of winning over the fans who were young back when Reggie was in his prime. I don't think we'll win back the people who wrote the Pacers off as thugs after the brawl, no matter what. No matter how reasonable the argument is. They have an unshakable opinion and will support that opinion with other excuses, if need be, such as ticket prices or the cost of a hot dog. Their kids? Yes, you can get them in the door. You have to.
            Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 02-15-2013, 05:04 PM.
            The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

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            • #21
              Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
              [......There's enough financially capable fans in every city as big as Indy to fill the place up (see Miami games in Indy for example).....
              I went to the Pacers v Clippers game last year and sat beside two guys wearing Clippers jerseys (lots of people in BiLF were wearing Clippers jerseys). I asked them where they were from and they said "Indy". I asked, "why the Clippers?" The response was "because Chris Paul is the best PG in the game and Griffin is a human highlight reel." I tested him and asked him where Chris Paul went to college and he couldn't tell me.....fantastic.
              I know "Sleeze" is spelled incorrectly. I spell it this way because it's based on a name.

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              • #22
                Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

                Originally posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
                the Lisa Olsen incident of 1990 did to Patriots attendance what the brawl did to Pacers attendance.



                As that scandal erupted, the city (with some justification) labeled the team as a group of thugs. Them being 5-11 the year before and 1-15 didn't help any either, as the year went on. That was a huge black eye that was not removed until Kraft bought the team and brought in Bill Parcells plus totally upgraded the ability of fans to get there. Before about 1995, any crowd over 30K caused literally hours of traffic jams before and after the game on the two lane highway (!) that was the only access road at the time, and that had no interstate nearby either, at the time.

                It took winning over a new generation of fans with winning and a positive in-the-building experience. I don't think many of the 80s-era Patriots fans ever came back, frankly- they wrote off the team as thugs. Their kids did start coming, though.

                The Pacers can do the same but it may take a lot of success and a lot of winning over the fans who were young back when Reggie was in his prime. I don't think we'll win back the people who wrote the Pacers off as thugs, no matter what. Their kids? Maybe.

                Thanks for the perspective on Patriots attendance. I'm not trying to pick on Boston fans, but am just using them as an example to show that people in Indy really aren't that different than people anywhere else. Human nature is similar everywhere. The Patriots had to build up goodwill both in the community and on the field before fans were 100% in, just like the Colts did here.

                Also, I will argue that in 2003, the Colts still had the Baltimore stigma attached to them. There wasn't much Indy history, aside from the miracle 95 run. Manning had put up some impressive seasons, but he didn't win a playoff game in any of the first five. From 2003-2010, the Colts built a history in Indy that Indy could fully embrace. Now the Colts have a rich history in Indy, something they did not have ten years ago. In ten years, an entire new generation of Colts fans have come of age. These people grew up rooting for a successful horseshoe.

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                • #23
                  Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

                  On a related note, it sure p*sses me off that people didn't buy more of the Daihatsu automobiles. I really liked those cars a lot and if other people who were buying Hondas or Fords or whatever really had an appreciation of great automotive engineering, then they surely would have bought more Daihatsu! I used to see people with a Daihatsu who didn't even deserve it, they weren't enthusiasts! They were just driving the cars to the grocery store or to work and stuff, never treating it with respect the way I treated my beloved Daihatsu. The only ones who really loved those cars was me and the dudes in the D-Hu Zone.


                  Name-calling signature removed

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                  • #24
                    Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

                    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                    TWO. Of eight. Blacked out. Division rivals. That's not "sold out", that's such poor sales that pre-housing market depression they couldn't get close enough to just buy it out and get on TV.
                    I think you're wrong. It was just one.

                    Per Chappell, the Colts have sold out 113 of their last 114 regular-season and playoff games, with 79 in a row. No game has been blacked out at Indianapolis since September 21, 2003, against the Jaguars.

                    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-home-opener/

                    This article was written before the 2012 season. According to Chappel, only one game in the last 114 has been blacked out. 114 divided by 8 home games a year is roughly 14.25 years worth of games. If Chappel is correct, and I have no reason to believe he isn't, then only one game in 2003 was blacked out. Not two.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

                      How does average household income and amount of disposable income factor into this when it comes to a state like Indiana? It would seem that there is obvious interest in college and high school games...but my guess is that the cost to go to these games is less compared to professional sporting events. Could it be that Indy is more of a "show me that you can win before i spend my hard earned money on your team"type of fanbase? I mean, how much support did the Colts haves before they started winning again?

                      Before you get upset at what I'm suggesting, I am just spitballing here trying to figure out why a Basketball state wouldn't really support a professional team that is actually winning games.
                      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

                        Seth....youre so totally on-point. Doesnt matter...the excuse makers will continue to try and make excuses...its what they do...its really pathetic at this point. Ironically, the luckiest thing that ever happened to the Colts was Peytons injury. Put them in a position to draft their potential saving grace and Peyton replacement. Plus, the idea of Peyton coming back and the one season being an anamoly kept peoples interest. Seth, I just cant agree more with a position than yours. Seriously, just f.c. the excuse makers...and i wish there was a way to ban them for life.
                        The Most Common Cause of Stress is Dealing with Idiots

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                        • #27
                          Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

                          Originally posted by cinotimz View Post
                          Seth....youre so totally on-point. Doesnt matter...the excuse makers will continue to try and make excuses...its what they do...its really pathetic at this point. Ironically, the luckiest thing that ever happened to the Colts was Peytons injury. Put them in a position to draft their potential saving grace and Peyton replacement. Plus, the idea of Peyton coming back and the one season being an anamoly kept peoples interest. Seth, I just cant agree more with a position than yours. Seriously, just f.c. the excuse makers...and i wish there was a way to ban them for life.
                          Facts are facts, and facts show that poor attendance happens all over the country, even in markets with millions and millions more people than Indy. What's hilarious is that people act like Indy is the only place where people are fickle. I've shown multiple examples of markets far larger than Indy struggling with attendance. The evidence is there for anyone interested in looking.

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