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Thread: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

  1. #201
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Phree Refill View Post
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    The likelihood of Vogel benching Roy is about the same as Artest and JOB ever working for this franchise simultaneously in any capacity ever again.
    I agree, I doubt it will happen.

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I like Roy Hibbert...
    It doesn't look like it, stop hating on Roy!!

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    It doesn't look like it, stop hating on Roy!!
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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Phree Refill View Post
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    The likelihood of Vogel benching Roy is about the same as Artest and JOB working for this franchise simultaneously in any capacity ever again.
    Not sure about that, Frank benched DJ, then Gerald and just benched Paul last night for crappy play.

    Oh wait, Paul fouled out! Duh is me!
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    I'm really not sure how benching Roy helps him get his head together. Seems it would do the opposite, and if this was JOB trying to do it everyone would be screaming at him for ruining Roy's confidence by doing so.

    That said, I actually would be willing to see what Ian does with the starters. While the Bobcats game would be a good one to give Roy a boost, it would also be a good one to see what Ian is able to do as a starter.
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  8. #206
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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I'm really not sure how benching Roy helps him get his head together. Seems it would do the opposite, and if this was JOB trying to do it everyone would be screaming at him for ruining Roy's confidence by doing so.

    That said, I actually would be willing to see what Ian does with the starters. While the Bobcats game would be a good one to give Roy a boost, it would also be a good one to see what Ian is able to do as a starter.
    I'm no coach, but it helped DJ.

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I'm really not sure how benching Roy helps him get his head together. Seems it would do the opposite, and if this was JOB trying to do it everyone would be screaming at him for ruining Roy's confidence by doing so.

    That said, I actually would be willing to see what Ian does with the starters. While the Bobcats game would be a good one to give Roy a boost, it would also be a good one to see what Ian is able to do as a starter.
    I'm personally holding out until the team is whole before changing things up.

    Hopefully Danny is back tomorrow, and we can run a month with our true starting 5. Then see how Roy responds.

    In wins, Roy is shooting about 43%. In losses, 38%. There is a direct correlation to his efficiency and Pacer wins, and it's vitally important to get him engaged/in a rhythm by the time April rolls along. I believe in Frank, as well as Roy. Roy pisses me off, sure, but anyone who works as hard as he does has the opportunity to turn it around.

    When he was really struggling, he would get super tentative and defer non stop. The last few games, it's clear Frank is telling him to get shots up. Short term pain for long term gain in my opinion. He can get through this, the investment right now is worth it.

    In reality, Roy isn't making any fewer shots (4.2 as opposed to a career average of 4.4) he's just taking 1 extra shot per game. He's close to getting this figured out.

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I'm no coach, but it helped DJ.
    I wouldn't disagree with that, but Roy is a different animal. He definitely struggles with confidence, and a benching could be hugely problematic. Big risk for a young $14M center. If DJ didn't respond well, whatever, we can overcome that. If Roy doesn't? That's a problem.

    This reminds me a bit of Noah's struggle after his big contract last season. He worked his way out of it eventually, and so will Roy.

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Smooth View Post
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    Maybe Roy should look up I-65 at Noah. Noah is much weaker than Roy, yet he goes up strong like he has 40 lbs on Roy.
    Noah has much better balance and a stronger base than Roy.
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  14. #210
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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    I wouldn't disagree with that, but Roy is a different animal. He definitely struggles with confidence, and a benching could be hugely problematic. Big risk for a young $14M center. If DJ didn't respond well, whatever, we can overcome that. If Roy doesn't? That's a problem.

    This reminds me a bit of Noah's struggle after his big contract last season. He worked his way out of it eventually, and so will Roy.
    So what you're saying is Roy could play worse? Because what we're doing now isn't working. Unless it's Danny being out (which it's not) just saying "Roy will come around" is not the answer anymore.

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Not that I agree but his list is not that bad, can you explain why do you think he is incorrect?
    Namely on his defensive list... I could tell at a glance...

    I would love to dig up some data but don't really have time to...
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    So what you're saying is Roy could play worse? Because what we're doing now isn't working.
    It isn't working offensively. But it is working defensively. He is confident on the defensive end. He knows that his teammates and coaches appreciate it and his teammates know that he has their backs.

    If Frank breaks his confidence he could start struggling on the defensive end as well. Which would be horrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Unless it's Danny being out (which it's not) just saying "Roy will come around" is not the answer anymore.
    Personally, I think that Danny's return will help Roy a lot. Teams will not be able to double him as much as they do when he has Danny on the wing ready for the kick out.
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  18. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    It isn't working offensively. But it is working defensively. He is confident on the defensive end. He knows that his teammates and coaches appreciate it and his teammates know that he has their backs.

    If Frank breaks his confidence he could start struggling on the defensive end as well. Which would be horrible.
    To me, that's a lose lose. Finding the cup is one thing. But blocking shot and communicating with your team to know where to be? Staying on the court? Roy can't be that fragile where he forgets how to do those things because he doesn't start a game. If he is, yikes.


    Personally, I think that Danny's return will help Roy a lot. Teams will not be able to double him as much as they do when he has Danny on the wing ready for the kick out.
    I posted Mannix saying that, and I agreed it could be possible. But the reality is Danny isn't going to help Roy make a wide open dunk, instead throwing up a finger roll, as Center, of the back of the rim.

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I'm no coach, but it helped DJ.
    I disagree. Apart from hitting the 3 closer to his career rate, I find his game to be just as useless now as it was before. Terrible defense, abandons his man at the hint of a PnR, doesn't get guys the ball half as well as Lance does on the high PnR, doesn't really do anything with penetration deeper into the lane (many forced misses at the rim in traffic), doesn't run much of a break (again, see Lance).

    Ditto Green, although his return PT is still extremely limited.


    I've seen one guy "fix" his game this year - Paul coming back and just taking tons of volume jumpers post-GSW which somehow got his whole game/confidence up a notch.




    Hibbert almost needs to go up to Ft Wayne and play against guys that are clearly weaker just to get his inside confidence back. At the rim he looks defeated before he even tries to make plays, putbacks, etc. The dude needs a sabbatical, Australian outback walkabout at this point. He's been so tough on defense, but his mind is not right and it's not about to get right just by sticking to the same routine in the same environment.

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Frank needs to stop forcing him the ball so much. There's nothing uglier to watch than the Pacers make a concentrated effort to get Roy the ball, for him to get blocked by the front of the rim.

    He needs to get his points off of put backs and dump offs. Forget this postup idea, until he starts showing the ability to handle it.

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  22. #216
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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I disagree. Apart from hitting the 3 closer to his career rate, I find his game to be just as useless now as it was before. Terrible defense, abandons his man at the hint of a PnR, doesn't get guys the ball half as well as Lance does on the high PnR, doesn't really do anything with penetration deeper into the lane (many forced misses at the rim in traffic), doesn't run much of a break (again, see Lance).
    I disagree. I think he had better control over himself and the game after he was benched. DJ even got us a couple wins when Hill went down.

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I disagree. Apart from hitting the 3 closer to his career rate, I find his game to be just as useless now as it was before. Terrible defense, abandons his man at the hint of a PnR, doesn't get guys the ball half as well as Lance does on the high PnR, doesn't really do anything with penetration deeper into the lane (many forced misses at the rim in traffic), doesn't run much of a break (again, see Lance).
    Good point. DJ has actually crashed back to earth after an ok January.

    Started the season shooting 25%-29%. December, he jumped that to 35% (Still awful.) Then he had his best month in January, shooting 41% and 6.6 points in 21 minutes.

    As soon as he goes back to the bench? 33% shooting, 5 points in 15 minutes.


    PG bounced back because he wanted it "that" badly. He went and got it.

    I'm slightly concerned that Roy doesn't have the fortitude to do that, he's gonna need more help. In fact, I think it was Friday night, Orlando "took" a rebound from Roy, and big fella tweaked. Yelled, slapped his hands, shook his head, then slowly made his way up court. It was obvious he was ticked about losing the rebound, and that kind of attitude isn't what he needs to be cultivating IMO.

    Honestly, I think it'd be Franks greatest act to get Roy on track. I think he will, but it's certainly no slam dunk. Like I said before, I believe in Frank/Roy together.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    I understand he's having a bad year so far, but give the man a break. PG and West shoot most of the shots. He's not at the stage of his career when he has all of the tools to dominate the game. His upside is tremendous and he has the potential to be a great center. We CANNOT trade him
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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    I don't know if anyone has said or suggested this but I think Hibbert should never finish tight games. When it gets down to crunch time he is just to slow to help and react to passes or rebound. I don't mind starting him and him getting the majority of the minutes at Center he does a good job keeping a little pressure off of West. I just feel like when we get to the end of those close games, teams know Hibbert is suspect on offence and the Pacers don't even look for him to score anyway. Then there are those loose ball rebounds or the ones that come right to him that he doesn't get, because he was slow to react or doesn't hold on to the ball tight.

    What I would like to see, is if the game is close within 8 points under 5 min. SIT Hibbert out. I would rather see any other big in there. We really don't have a big that's a liability at the line so I say we play the quicker bigs who can run down those loose ball rebounds, and hustle to get those tough rebounds at the end of the games were calls seem a little harder to get. You see it all the time where the more aggressive player is rewarded and Hibbert is the least aggressive player in the league. Just one time this season I saw him go up hard for a rebound and dunk it with 2 hands.

    I will also add I was a Hibbert supporter when we drafted him and up until the new contract. I think its a little much for what he provides. We need energy at the end of games and Hibbert just doesn't have any left at the end of games. I was surprised Jeff didn't get anymore PT after he was having a career night. Without a doubt we would have won with him in to finish the last 2 min last night before OT.
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    Lightbulb Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Frank needs to stop forcing him the ball so much. There's nothing uglier to watch than the Pacers make a concentrated effort to get Roy the ball, for him to get blocked by the front of the rim.

    He needs to get his points off of put backs and dump offs. Forget this postup idea, until he starts showing the ability to handle it.

    This. Frank's foolish for wasting half our first quarters force feedind Hibbert. It throws everyone elses rhytym off. Im starting to think Frank's strategy is actually making it harder on Roy to snap out of his funk.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    His upside is tremendous
    Not sure if you're serious?

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    This. Frank's foolish for wasting half our first quarters force feedind Hibbert. It throws everyone elses rhytym off. Im starting to think Frank's strategy is actually making it harder on Roy to snap out of his funk.
    Just another chance to point out how things change. Earlier this year, much less for the last few years, the biggest criticism of the offense was failing to feed Hibbert in the post.
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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    This. Frank's foolish for wasting half our first quarters force feedind Hibbert. It throws everyone elses rhytym off. Im starting to think Frank's strategy is actually making it harder on Roy to snap out of his funk.
    I have been saying this forever, they should stop posting up Hibbert and if he gets the ball tell him to shoot a jumper, maybe the clown had it right? the clown wanted to make him a jump shooter, maybe that is what he should be.

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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    He needs to get his points off of put backs and dump offs. Forget this postup idea, until he starts showing the ability to handle it.
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/

    Actually, his hook shot is solid. 79 / 148 equals 53.4%. If he could only shot that hook, we would be alright. But it's the tips (27 / 74, 36.5%) and lay-ups (40 / 101, 39.6%) that are the problem.
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    Default Re: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I posted Mannix saying that, and I agreed it could be possible. But the reality is Danny isn't going to help Roy make a wide open dunk, instead throwing up a finger roll, as Center, of the back of the rim.
    It will keep him from getting constantly double teamed and hacked down low like he is now, though.

    PS: He couldn't dunk that last finger roll if you are referring to this. He was too far away.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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