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Thread: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brinocerous View Post
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    And we would get killed even worse with Foster starting.
    you must not remember the series Foster played in Reggie Millers last season. one game during that series Foster ended up with a record in rebounds, i think it was 21. he also had like 12 offensive rebounds and won us that game easily. in fact, Detroit was gameplanning on Foster the next game. Foster was a big reason that series went 6 games.

    you obviously do not realize how good Jeff Foster was in his prime.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Obviously some people aren't watching the games carefully and are just basing performance by the stats. Roy's defense is a big reason why we're at the level we're at. His offense is starting to pick up, but I guess some people would rather go with the negatives rather than the positives to try and on PD.

    I have a really hard time taking threads like these ones seriously. Just reading the title made me .

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    what am i looking at here that proves Tyler > Foster? The 4ppg more at a lower shooting percentage? You can't be serious. The only thing Tyler does better than Jeff and will only do better than Jeff is score. Foster dominated on the glass, especially offensively, was a superior defender and a better passer.
    if Hansbrough were 6'10 and could gaurd opposing teams centers, he would have a chance to reach Fosters level. i like Hansbrough as much as the next pacer fan and prob more, but Feisty Foster was more valuable in many respects over Hans.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=PacersPride;1584294]

    HA. im a big Hans supporter and he is no where near the player Fiesty Foster was in his prime. Foster was 6'10 easy and could gaurd most teams Centers. Even did a decent job against Shaq.

    Foster better passer, rebounder, defender, leader, and played just as hard. Foster was a better version of Dennis Rodman. Foster dominated games with his offensive rebounding.

    The only reason he no longer started for this team was due to back problems. If i had a healthy Foster in his prime or HIbbs right now i would take Foster. if Hibbert hits his prime with some offensive game then i would reconsider. I would take Foster over Smits as well for the long haul, other than a 3 year career run under Bird Smits had durability issues.

    Hans better than Foster right now. C'mon Man.
    Probably can just rename this the "say crazy **** thread"...not to single this post out, but I am reading along nodding, good point, good point, OK I agree, and all of a sudden here comes "Foster was a better version of Dennis Rodman"

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  7. #130
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Yeah, that is one year..... How about the others? How about being hurt all of the time? Foster was a run-of-the-mill post player for almost all of his career.... ...
    Foster had no offensive game for most of his career. except for the offensive rebounding which made up for a ton of it.

    bottom line:

    Foster would be starting on over half the nba teams, and probably closer to two thirds in his prime. Therefore, he was not a career backup as your original post suggeted.

    I know Foster would start on the Heat, Celtics (could move KG to PF like we did JO), Hawks, Philly, Spurs (Pop would get Foster on court in his prime), Lakers (Kobe would love Foster tracking down 10 offensive rebounds or more some games).

    These are playoff caliber teams and Foster would start on over half of them would be my guess. easily he would start on the rest of the bottom feeders.

    Your estimation of solid role players must be completely skewed in regard to mine. The Heat would be very very dangerous with a healthy Jeff Foster circa 2001-2008

    * I bet Coach Vogel would agree as well. After Fosters retirement the FO asked Coach Vogel waht he wanted most from the draft.. Coach Frank asked if there was another Foster out there and if so go get him. I dont think Plumee is that guy but thats not point.
    Last edited by PacersPride; 02-10-2013 at 02:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Hibbert is shooting 47.1% for his career. A player does not normally decline at 26 (unless he is Andris Biedrins that just stopped caring for whatever reason). So, it's not far-fetched to believe that he is more likely to return to his career averages than keep shooting at his career low.

    It's just a matter of numbers. You cannot disprove numbers. It's that simple!
    I would suggest the "whatever reason" that Biedrins stopped caring was "got a huge contract." Could that be relevant to Roy's struggles?

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=PacersPride;1584294]

    HA. im a big Hans supporter and he is no where near the player Fiesty Foster was in his prime. Foster was 6'10 easy and could gaurd most teams Centers. Even did a decent job against Shaq.

    Foster better passer, rebounder, defender, leader, and played just as hard. Foster was a better version of Dennis Rodman. Foster dominated games with his offensive rebounding.

    The only reason he no longer started for this team was due to back problems. If i had a healthy Foster in his prime or HIbbs right now i would take Foster. if Hibbert hits his prime with some offensive game then i would reconsider. I would take Foster over Smits as well for the long haul, other than a 3 year career run under Bird Smits had durability issues.

    Hans better than Foster right now. C'mon Man.

    And how exactly is this true?
    Last edited by 5_7_Clash; 02-10-2013 at 02:13 PM.

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  11. #133

    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    Want a logical answer?

    Here you are:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2012/ (11-12 season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2011/ (10-11 season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2010/ (09-10 season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2009/ (08-09 season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/ (12-13 season)

    Those are Roy Hibbert's shot charts for every single year of his NBA career.

    Problem #1: He is shooting below 50% at rim for the first time in his career.

    Let's see how he shot at rim in his previous seasons:

    08-09: 51.2% (104-203)

    09-10: 60.9% (181-297)

    10-11: 65.1% (181-278)

    11-12: 57.5% (161-280)

    He is shooting 47% (94-200) from this area this season. That's a career low by 4.2%. That's 10.5% lower than what he shot last year from that same area.

    Problem #2: He is shooting below 40% from 3 to 10 feet for the second time in his career. It's a career low as well.

    Let's see how he shot from 3 to 10 feet in his previous seasons:

    08-09: 44.6% (66-148)

    09-10: 45.1% (124-275)

    10-11: 39.7% (158-398)

    11-12: 50.3% (173-344)

    He is shooting 37.7% (81-225) from this area this season. That's a career low by 2%. That's also 12.6% lower than what he shot last year from that same area.

    Problem #3: He is shooting a career low in lay-ups as well.

    Hibbert's FG% in lay-ups over the previous seasons:

    08-09: 41% (59-144) [36 of those, that is 61%, were assisted]

    09-10: 53.3% (114-214) [69 of those, that is 60.5%, were assisted]

    10-11: 54.4% (87-160) [51 of those, that is 58.6%, were assisted]

    11-12: 56.2% (95-169) [45 of those, that is 47.4%, were assisted]

    He is shooting 40.4% (40-99) this season. That's a career low by 0.6%. That's 15.8% lower than what he shot last year. Also, only 15 of his lay-ups are assisted. That means that only 37.5% of his lay-ups were assisted. That's 9.9% lower than his career low and 21.1% lower than his previous career low.

    Should we expect from Hibbert to get by his man and create a lay-up for himself? No, we shouldn't. We should expect him to create a hook shot for himself. A hook shot that he still shoots on a 54.3% (75-138) clip. A hook shot that is assisted on a higher rate (43 of his 75 makes are assisted, that is 57.3%) than his lay-ups for some reason.

    Bonus observation: Roy is rebounding more this season on the offensive end. That results in more tip-ins. Let's check his offensive rebounding numbers first and his tip-ins second.

    Roy's offensive rebounding totals:

    08-09: 115 (70 games) [42 games as a starter but rookie season so not a whole lot of minutes]

    09-10: 177 (81 games) [69 games as a starter]

    10-11: 182 (81 games) [started all but 1 game]

    11-12: 213 (65 games) [lock-out season]

    12-13: 192 (51 games)

    So, in 51 games he has already grabbed more offensive boards than the 10-11 and 09-10 seasons in which he played 81 games. Want to do a comparison in minutes? He played 2.244 minutes in 10-11 and 2.035 minutes in 09-10. He has played 1.461 minutes so far and he has already grabbed more offensive boards than 10-11 and 09-10 (he has also blocked 12 more shots than 11-12, 5 more shots than 09-10 and 6 less than 10-11).

    [If he is to keep up this pace, he will grab more offensive rebounds than the 11-12 season in 5.5 games (needs 21 more and he is grabbing 3.8 per game) and block more shots than the 10-11 season in 2.2 games (needs 6 more and he is blocking 2.7 shots per game). But that's irrelevant with his shooting so it's just a parenthesis.]

    Along with his offensive rebounds, his tip-in attempts have increased as well. Let's start with checking his attempts in every season so far:

    08-09: 25

    09-10: 30

    10-11: 42

    11-12: 59

    12-13: 73

    I already posted the games and minutes above. So, in only 51 games and 1.461 minutes Roy has surpassed his career high in tip-ins by 14.

    He has attempted 73 tip-ins out of 192 offensive rebounds. That means that 38% of his offensive rebounds result into tip-ins.

    In fact, Hibbert's 73 tip-in attempts are more than those of Marc Gasol (24) and Tyson Chandler (43) combined!

    And Tyson Chandler has grabbed more offensive rebounds than Hibbert (215, to be precise).

    Now, let's see his shooting percentage in those tip-ins over the years:

    08-09: 52% (13-25)

    09-10: 50% (15-30)

    10-11: 40.5% (17-42)

    11-12: 40.7% (24-59)

    12-13: 37% (27-73)

    So, he is shooting a career low in tip-ins as well. But Hibbert gets his tip-ins exploiting his length and those shot attempts are usually wild due to being heavily contested and mostly off-balance.

    Should we fault him for the mised tip-ins? Not so much. Why? Because we wouldn't get those shots if it wasn't for Hibbert rebounding the initial miss in the first place. But a coach could instruct him to reduce the amout of tip-ins and either kick the ball out or gather first and then attempt to finish (possibly earning a foul) because it is hurting his FG%. We all know that FG% is what matters in a Center, right?

    What would happen if we were to exclude those tip-in attempts from his overall shooting in each season?

    Let's take a look:

    08-09: He was 47.1% with 198-420. If we were to exclude his tip-ins (13-25), he would be 185-395. So, he would shoot 46.8%.

    09-10: He was 49.5% (49.48% to be precise) with 387-782. If we were to exclude his tip-ins (15-30), he would be 372-752. So, he would shoot 49.5% (49.46 to be precise).

    10-11: He was 46.1% with 410-890. If we were to exclude his tip-ins (17-42), he would be 393-848. So, he would shoot 46.3%.

    11-12: He was 49.7% with 332-668 (note that he went 52-104 for 50% in the playoffs last year). If we were to exclude his tip-ins (24-59), he would be 308-609. So, he would shoot 50.5%.

    12-13: He is 41.6% with 215-517. If we were to exclude his tip-ins (27-73), he would be 188-444. So, he would shoot 42.3%.

    He would still shoot horrible but one cannot dispute that his tip-ins negatively influence his FG%. But that's just my observation.

    The point of this very long post is simple. You are free to skip to this part if you don't want to read the whole post.

    Roy Hibbert has proved in all 4 of his previous seasons that he is a better offensive player than he has shown so far this season. That's why we can tell that it will get better, 3rdStrike. That's our logic, Justin. 4 seasons overpower a single season. If Roy Hibbert shot 60% this season, we would have no reason to conclude that he would shoot 60% for the rest of his career. We could say that he could shoot 50% and see it as a sign of improvement, of course. But saying that he would shoot 60% would be illogical. It's similarly illogical to conclude that he will keep shooting 41.5% like he is now.

    Hibbert is shooting 47.1% for his career. A player does not normally decline at 26 (unless he is Andris Biedrins that just stopped caring for whatever reason). So, it's not far-fetched to believe that he is more likely to return to his career averages than keep shooting at his career low.

    It's just a matter of numbers. You cannot disprove numbers. It's that simple!

    I commend you on the time you put forth on your post. The law of averages is on Hibbert's side that his game will improve sooner or later. The point some have made is Hibbert isn't living up to his contract. It's frustrating to watch a player get paid for the play that made them an Allstar and then not produce like one.

    We can cuss and discuss whether Hibbert deserves his contract until the cows come home, but the fact is by his own play and production he doesn't. Hibbert isn't playing well, and he even admitted as such in an interview with Brooke on tv last week.

    Some have mentioned Tyson Chandler as a comparison to Hibbert. I did some research on Chandler last night. I looked at his production. People in the past have mentioned how much he meant to Dallas and now NY. That he's a "D" player 1st and not a scorer per se. IIRC, someone compared Chandler's salary to Hibbert's salary. I didn't realize they were both making 13.6 mil this year until I looked it up at Shamsports.

    Here is what Chandler is giving for his 13. 6 mil.

    11.5 PPG... 11.2 RPG... 67% FG... 66.7% FT

    3-20 reb games in a row last week. 4-18 reb games this year... 27-10 reb or more games this year.


    This is what Hibbert is giving for his 13.6 mil this year.

    9.9 PPG... 8.3 RPG... 41.6% FG... 70% FT

    The most rebs Hibbert has garnered in a game this year is 15. 15 games of 10 rebs or more in a game this season

    Hibbert isn't producing for the salary he's being paid as Chandler is. Both Hibbert and Chandler are good "D" players, and contribute mightly to their teams "D".

    IMO, this thread was a thread of frustration from Hibbert's play this season, and more to the loss to Toronto when the bigs of Toronto went 20 of 32 shooting for 62%. It is frustrating to watch AMIR JOHNSON get 14 and 14 and 20 year old ROOKIE Valanciunas get 14 and 13. Thus, I personally can understand the thread originator and others frustration. To me, they have a right to express their displeasure with Hibbert's play. Trading Hibbert might be an over re-action at the present, but if things haven't changed this time next year it might have some validity.

    I knew after reading the thread title this was going to be a controversial thread. I was prepared, but unfortunately some took the thread to another level to the point of asking for the thread to be deleted. That bothered me more than any other comments in this thread. I want to thank ADMIN for ignoring the request. JMOAA

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  13. #134
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=5_7_Clash;1584319]
    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    And how exactly is this true?
    how is not true. its just my opinion. i could give a detailed analysis but would you read it. i doubt it. so i will just say i believe overall Foster was a better rebounder. not a better defender. but Rodman was limited with his size whereas Foster was more of a combo backup big who could gaurd PF/C. ive always believed that to important when it comes to the front court rotation. plus Rodman was nukkin futts and Foster a leader. its a shame Foster did not have 2-3 seasons left.

    he coulda made a huge difference in last seasons miami series just like he did vs the bulls and thats n limited minutes. foster was as solid as it gets from a guy who did not need to score to impact a game.

  14. #135

    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    I would suggest the "whatever reason" that Biedrins stopped caring was "got a huge contract." Could that be relevant to Roy's struggles?

    Speaking of Biedrins he got "8" rebs last game!!! I had to take a double take at the box score as I thought my eyes had deceived me.

    Lets ALL hope Hibbert doesn't come close to what Biedrins has become after signing his last contract. Talk about a disappearing act.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=PacersPride;1584333]
    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    how is not true. its just my opinion. i could give a detailed analysis but would you read it. i doubt it. so i will just say i believe overall Foster was a better rebounder. not a better defender. but Rodman was limited with his size whereas Foster was more of a combo backup big who could gaurd PF/C. ive always believed that to important when it comes to the front court rotation. plus Rodman was nukkin futts and Foster a leader. its a shame Foster did not have 2-3 seasons left.

    he coulda made a huge difference in last seasons miami series just like he did vs the bulls and thats n limited minutes. foster was as solid as it gets from a guy who did not need to score to impact a game.
    I actually WOULD read any analysis you'd like to put together and I think some other people would, too. I'd encourage you to do so.
    I appreciate that this is just your opinion but I feel like a statement like this is more about hyperbole and trying to prove your point than it is a well-informed argument. There isn't any universe where Foster was a better Dennis Rodman. None. And I love The Chairman and hate Dennis Rodman. But I'm sorry, it's just not anywhere close to a valid point.

    Dennis Rodman's Career Achievements:

    5ื NBA champion (1989–1990, 1996–1998)
    2ื NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1990–1991)
    2ื NBA All-Star (1990, 1992)
    2ื All-NBA Third Team (1992, 1995)
    7ื All-Defensive First Team (1989–1993, 1995–1996)
    All-Defensive Second Team (1994)
    7ื NBA rebounding champion (1992–1998)
    Detroit Pistons #10 retired

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  17. #137
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    Cool Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=5_7_Clash;1584356]
    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    I actually WOULD read any analysis you'd like to put together and I think some other people would, too. I'd encourage you to do so.
    I appreciate that this is just your opinion but I feel like a statement like this is more about hyperbole and trying to prove your point than it is a well-informed argument. There isn't any universe where Foster was a better Dennis Rodman. None. And I love The Chairman and hate Dennis Rodman. But I'm sorry, it's just not anywhere close to a valid point.

    Dennis Rodman's Career Achievements:

    5ื NBA champion (1989–1990, 1996–1998)
    2ื NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1990–1991)
    2ื NBA All-Star (1990, 1992)
    2ื All-NBA Third Team (1992, 1995)
    7ื All-Defensive First Team (1989–1993, 1995–1996)
    All-Defensive Second Team (1994)
    7ื NBA rebounding champion (1992–1998)
    Detroit Pistons #10 retired
    The worm should be in the HOF..... ... Foster never made an all star team. This is a silly discusion....

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=OlBlu;1584367]
    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    The worm should be in the HOF..... ... Foster never made an all star team. This is a silly discusion....
    Rodman is in the HOF. And yes, this is a silly discussion.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanvil View Post
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    That doesn't make sense...
    Jeff started 45% of his NBA games. That includes essentially the entire 2004 season, where we were a damn good team (suggesting he wasn't merely starting because he was on a bad team).

    So while it would be fair to say he was off the bench more often (55%) than not, to phrase it as 'he's a lifelong backup' would not be fair because it would imply that Jeff was almost exclusively a bench player (and I think, considering the source, it is also a veiled insult to the quality of Foster as a player).

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  22. #140
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=5_7_Clash;1584356]
    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    I actually WOULD read any analysis you'd like to put together and I think some other people would, too. I'd encourage you to do so.
    I appreciate that this is just your opinion but I feel like a statement like this is more about hyperbole and trying to prove your point than it is a well-informed argument. There isn't any universe where Foster was a better Dennis Rodman. None. And I love The Chairman and hate Dennis Rodman. But I'm sorry, it's just not anywhere close to a valid point.

    Dennis Rodman's Career Achievements:

    5ื NBA champion (1989–1990, 1996–1998)
    2ื NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1990–1991)
    2ื NBA All-Star (1990, 1992)
    2ื All-NBA Third Team (1992, 1995)
    7ื All-Defensive First Team (1989–1993, 1995–1996)
    All-Defensive Second Team (1994)
    7ื NBA rebounding champion (1992–1998)
    Detroit Pistons #10 retired
    Rodman was a great player no doubt. but I dont believe Foster is as far behind to state its a silly discussion. Just to set the record straight. I used in comparison to the hans vs foster debate which imo is silly. Rodman was on teams that won championships and they are always given the accolades. I am not denying Rodman as great. but Foster was great in his own right. only due to lingering back issues did his career numbers not reach the record books. here is a great article to justify my position.

    http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.co...und-the-floor/

    Everyone who follows the NBA closely knows that Jeff Foster is one of the best rebounders in league history, particularly when it comes to offensive rebounding. Looking at offensive rebound rate (a metric that since 1971 has recorded the percentage of rebounds a player gets while he is on the court and is the best measure of rebounding ability), only four players in NBA history have a better career percentage than Jeff’s 15.2: Jayson Williams, Dennis Rodman, Moses Malone and Larry Smith. And overall, factoring in both offensive and defensive boards, Foster’s 18.93 is the eight best total rebound rate since they started recording it. (Rodman is first with an absolutely insane 23.44.)

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=PacersPride;1584373]
    Quote Originally Posted by 5_7_Clash View Post
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    Rodman was a great player no doubt. but I dont believe Foster is as far behind to state its a silly discussion. Just to set the record straight. I used in comparison to the hans vs foster debate which imo is silly. Rodman was on teams that won championships and they are always given the accolades. I am not denying Rodman as great. but Foster was great in his own right. only due to lingering back issues did his career numbers not reach the record books. here is a great article to justify my position.

    http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.co...und-the-floor/

    Everyone who follows the NBA closely knows that Jeff Foster is one of the best rebounders in league history, particularly when it comes to offensive rebounding. Looking at offensive rebound rate (a metric that since 1971 has recorded the percentage of rebounds a player gets while he is on the court and is the best measure of rebounding ability), only four players in NBA history have a better career percentage than Jeff’s 15.2: Jayson Williams, Dennis Rodman, Moses Malone and Larry Smith. And overall, factoring in both offensive and defensive boards, Foster’s 18.93 is the eight best total rebound rate since they started recording it. (Rodman is first with an absolutely insane 23.44.)
    When you take a look at the 4th year numbers comparison between Foster and Hans, it's in no way as silly as saying that Foster>D-Rod.

    Jeff Foster was most definitely a great cleaner on both sides of the floor. One of the best. I absolutely agree with you. And he gave a lot to this franchise, his teammates, and the fans both on and off the court. He will always be one of my favorite Pacers, no doubt.

    And with that... I'm out (of this discussion). *drop mic*
    Last edited by 5_7_Clash; 02-10-2013 at 03:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=5_7_Clash;1584382]
    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    When you take a look at the 4th year numbers comparison between Foster and Hans, it's in no way as silly as saying that Foster>D-Rod.

    Jeff Foster was most definitely a great cleaner on both sides of the floor. One of the best. I absolutely agree with you. And he gave a lot to this franchise, his teammates, and the fans both on and off the court. He will always be one of my favorite Pacers, no doubt.

    And with that... I'm out (of this discussion). *drop mic*
    all im saying is Foster was more than a "lifelong" career backup posted by someone below.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Dang - it has been so long since a thread got locked around here.

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    Cool Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=Heisenberg;1584368]
    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Rodman is in the HOF. And yes, this is a silly discussion.
    I thought he might be but I wasn't sure. He certainly deserved to be even though people here think Foster was better.... ...

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    [QUOTE=OlBlu;1584413]
    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I thought he might be but I wasn't sure. He certainly deserved to be even though people here think Foster was better.... ...
    There are a lot of homers on this board, which is fine because it is a Pacers board afterall, but there may be only one or two people who actually believe this.

    I mean everybody knows I love Dale Davis but even I wouldn't say that Dale Davis (who was better than Foster) was better than Rodman. The worm was a one of a kind animal.

    *Yes I realize that I am opening up the Dale vs. Foster debate, but isn't that much better than having to hear about trading away Roy?


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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    I'm not actually happy with Roy this season, but I do not want to trade him, he's anchored the D pretty darn well. The FG% is a worry, hard to believe a guy that big with a historically good touch around the rim is shooting that bad.

    They said on the JMV radio show that of any player that has took a least 200 shoots around the rim Roy is dead last in FG% for the entire NBA.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    I would suggest the "whatever reason" that Biedrins stopped caring was "got a huge contract." Could that be relevant to Roy's struggles?
    It's fallacious to assume that a player stops caring after he gets a huge contract. In fact, even Biedrins didn't simply stopped caring as I said in my original post.

    He had a career season in the year that followed the signing of his huge contract. He was injured in the following season (09-10) and appeared in only 33 out of 82 games due to back and groin ailments. He had some good games at the beginning of the 10-11 season but he was injured again starting December 10 and after battling through injuries he sprained his ankle in March 16 which ended his season. He played 59 out of 82 games in that season. He is still being constantly re-injured every so often.
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    Cool Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    It's fallacious to assume that a player stops caring after he gets a huge contract. In fact, even Biedrins didn't simply stopped caring as I said in my original post.

    He had a career season in the year that followed the signing of his huge contract. He was injured in the following season (09-10) and appeared in only 33 out of 82 games due to back and groin ailments. He had some good games at the beginning of the 10-11 season but he was injured again starting December 10 and after battling through injuries he sprained his ankle in March 16 which ended his season. He played 59 out of 82 games in that season. He is still being constantly re-injured every so often.
    If a player stops caring, it is his defense that will suffer. That hasn't happened to Roy. He has developed some kind of mental block on offense and I think he will work hard to try and correct that in the off season........ ...

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I commend you on the time you put forth on your post. The law of averages is on Hibbert's side that his game will improve sooner or later. The point some have made is Hibbert isn't living up to his contract. It's frustrating to watch a player get paid for the play that made them an Allstar and then not produce like one.

    We can cuss and discuss whether Hibbert deserves his contract until the cows come home, but the fact is by his own play and production he doesn't. Hibbert isn't playing well, and he even admitted as such in an interview with Brooke on tv last week.
    People have the right to be frustrated about Roy's poor offensive production. That much is true. Roy is, of course, frustrated about this as well. That's one of the reasons that he isn't producing better as well, imo. He knows that people are frustrated about his offensive play and tries his best to prove them wrong but fail and fail again. But that's just my take.

    Even if someone disagrees with my take, we would probably have to agree on one thing. Yes, people have the right to be frustrated by Roy's offensive play but they should acknowledge his overall play and impact in our team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Some have mentioned Tyson Chandler as a comparison to Hibbert. I did some research on Chandler last night. I looked at his production. People in the past have mentioned how much he meant to Dallas and now NY. That he's a "D" player 1st and not a scorer per se. IIRC, someone compared Chandler's salary to Hibbert's salary. I didn't realize they were both making 13.6 mil this year until I looked it up at Shamsports.
    The difference is that Hibbert normally is a scorer. Not a 20 PPG one (almost no post player is a 20 PPG one, nowadays) but he is solid Center offensively. You can throw him the ball in the post and expect him to score. There is a reason why Chandler has only shot 39 of his 309 more than 3 feet away from the rim.

    Yes, Chandler is indeed shooting 67% for the season. But 72.9% of his baskets are assisted and 87.3% of his shots are at the rim. By the way, he is shooting 16/39 from further than 3 feet. That's 41%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Here is what Chandler is giving for his 13. 6 mil.

    11.5 PPG... 11.2 RPG... 67% FG... 66.7% FT

    3-20 reb games in a row last week. 4-18 reb games this year... 27-10 reb or more games this year.


    This is what Hibbert is giving for his 13.6 mil this year.

    9.9 PPG... 8.3 RPG... 41.6% FG... 70% FT

    The most rebs Hibbert has garnered in a game this year is 15. 15 games of 10 rebs or more in a game this season
    Those stats are absolutely true. But it's very important to put them into context.

    Tyson Chandler plays in a poor rebounding team. The New York Knicks are #22 in Total Rebounds per Game and #16 in Total Rebounding % (Rebound Rate). The Indiana Pacers are #3 in both categories. You can access those stats here -> http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat...ounds-per-game

    Want to know the second best rebounder on the Knicks? It's Carmelo Anthony at 6.3 RPG. After him? It's their sixth man, JR Smith at 5 RPG. And he is a shooting guard. Here are the stats about this as well -> http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/...ew-york-knicks

    The Pacers on the other hand? Roy is first with 8.3 RPG, Paul George follows with 7.8 RPG and David West comes third with 7.6 RPG. Simply put, there are less available rebound on the Pacers to grab as we tend to crash the boards collectively as a team. Plus, it's important to note that Chandler is playing 33.1 MPG while Roy plays 28.6 MPG. Here are the stats -> http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/...indiana-pacers


    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Hibbert isn't producing for the salary he's being paid as Chandler is. Both Hibbert and Chandler are good "D" players, and contribute mightly to their teams "D".
    Let's also put this into context. The Knicks are #16 in Defensive Efficiency, tied for #18 in Opponent FG% and tied for #25 in Opponent TS%. They are not a great defensive team and Chandler's impact on that end has not been as big this season. Ask any Knicks fan in any online forum and he should tell you that Tyson has not been as good as he was last year.

    On the other hand, the Pacers are #1 in all of the aforementioned categories. Roy makes a real impact defensively. It isn't only about blocking shots. It is about altering tons of shots and making guards think twice before they enter our paint.


    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    IMO, this thread was a thread of frustration from Hibbert's play this season, and more to the loss to Toronto when the bigs of Toronto went 20 of 32 shooting for 62%. It is frustrating to watch AMIR JOHNSON get 14 and 14 and 20 year old ROOKIE Valanciunas get 14 and 13. Thus, I personally can understand the thread originator and others frustration. To me, they have a right to express their displeasure with Hibbert's play. Trading Hibbert might be an over re-action at the present, but if things haven't changed this time next year it might have some validity.

    I knew after reading the thread title this was going to be a controversial thread. I was prepared, but unfortunately some took the thread to another level to the point of asking for the thread to be deleted. That bothered me more than any other comments in this thread. I want to thank ADMIN for ignoring the request. JMOAA
    As I said before, I can understand the frustration. But don't lose perspective. Just like we cannot get too high about Paul George, we cannot get too low about Roy Hibbert. Frankly, I don't want to know what I will read when PG gets his max.

    PS: Valanciunas will get a lot of double-doubles in his career. He would have gotten a bunch of them already if it wasn't for his injury that side-lined him for so long. He is a real Center. I'm just so glad that I'm able to see him night in and night out in the NBA. That's a privilege I didn't have when he was playing in Europe.
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
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    I'm not actually happy with Roy this season, but I do not want to trade him, he's anchored the D pretty darn well. The FG% is a worry, hard to believe a guy that big with a historically good touch around the rim is shooting that bad.

    They said on the JMV radio show that of any player that has took a least 200 shoots around the rim Roy is dead last in FG% for the entire NBA.
    Roy can hit 150 straight 3 pointers and his percentage would not be as good as Chandlers(somebody on twitter posted this).

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