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Thread: Another Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tora tora View Post
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    I just wish he'd work on his balance, sick of him falling on his *** 20 times a game...
    I fear that's something out of his control after a certain point: Bad genetics. Oh, those genes did him several favors in other areas, but the guy is about as balanced and coordinated as a newborn giraffe. You should hear some of the stories about how physically pathetic he was back in high school and early on in college. It's a miracle he's come as far as he already has in that department. I fear he's hit his ceiling in this department. He's better off working on his decision making so that he can minimize the mistakes caused by his clumsiness, I think. Work with it instead of trying (and failing) to fix it.

    Someone was saying it can help to keep ones balance if one initiates contact in the post rather than letting the defender come and whack into you. Maybe he needs to try more of that, for starters. Maybe that will help keep his upper body upright and allow him to finish more. Otherwise, just working strictly within the framework his body allows will go a ways in correcting his play in the long run, I think.

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    Cool Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Everyone complaining about Hibbert should go back and look at posts when he was drafted and many people thought he was a joke who couldn't jump, couldn't run the floor and was incredibly slow. Many complained it was a wasted draft pick. They failed to examine Hibbert's work ethic and how he has made himself a very good center. In the off season, I am sure he will work on his post moves with some famous big from the past and he will come back better on the offensive side of the ball next year. It is hard to make big changes mid-year without disrupting something else. I think he will make all star teams in the future because other teams know what he means to the Pacers and he will get votes from them........ ...

  4. #78

    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Those checks are set in stone, so this drum beat about his salary amounts to crying over spilled milk and IMO needs to stop.
    Amnesty is an option

  5. #79
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vincognito View Post
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    Amnesty is an option
    Just about like how suicide is a way out of a blind date.....

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    *note, I'm using the pronoun 'You' below to refer to the general you, not any one person*

    I start to tune out real quick with the hand wringing over contracts. It's not Roy's fault, or Roy's problem, that he gets paid more money than YOU think he deserves. He doesn't owe you a damn thing in that department. That money was decided by the NBA, his agent, and at least two NBA teams, all of which collectively resulted in the amount he was able to sign for.

    The guy busted his *** in the gym, developed his game, and became a good center who even managed to sneak onto an all-star team. After that, it was out of his hands regarding money.

    Those checks are set in stone, so this drum beat about his salary amounts to crying over spilled milk and IMO needs to stop.

    I could understand if it were YOUR money, but it's not, so just give it a rest already. It may as well be monopoly money for as much as it has anything specifically to do with any of you.

    I can understand being bummed because he's not meeting expectations, though. Of course, what those expectations are varies from fan to fan, so which one's set of expectations does he have to attach himself to, exactly, anyway?

    If I felt like he was dogging it, had a crappy attitude, wasn't trying, whatever, then yeah I could get behind anger or venting about it. But for God's sake is there anyone less likely to be doing that than Roy freakin' Hibbert? I don't think so.

    So he's struggling, yes. He's also more than likely doing anything/everything he can to fix it, and it's just not working much at all as of this point. So given that likelihood, how about instead of busting his chops you give him some positive support to try to help him through a tough time on the floor? His gain is your gain, and beating him up about it won't solve ****.
    Well said

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vincognito View Post
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    Amnesty is an option
    no it's not even if it was allowed by the rules it wouldn't be an option.


    He cant be amnestied only players who signed their deal before the new CBA who are still with their current team are eligible.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    *note, I'm using the pronoun 'You' below to refer to the general you, not any one person*

    I start to tune out real quick with the hand wringing over contracts. It's not Roy's fault, or Roy's problem, that he gets paid more money than YOU think he deserves. He doesn't owe you a damn thing in that department. That money was decided by the NBA, his agent, and at least two NBA teams, all of which collectively resulted in the amount he was able to sign for.

    The guy busted his *** in the gym, developed his game, and became a good center who even managed to sneak onto an all-star team. After that, it was out of his hands regarding money.

    Those checks are set in stone, so this drum beat about his salary amounts to crying over spilled milk and IMO needs to stop.

    I could understand if it were YOUR money, but it's not, so just give it a rest already. It may as well be monopoly money for as much as it has anything specifically to do with any of you.

    I can understand being bummed because he's not meeting expectations, though. Of course, what those expectations are varies from fan to fan, so which one's set of expectations does he have to attach himself to, exactly, anyway?

    If I felt like he was dogging it, had a crappy attitude, wasn't trying, whatever, then yeah I could get behind anger or venting about it. But for God's sake is there anyone less likely to be doing that than Roy freakin' Hibbert? I don't think so.

    So he's struggling, yes. He's also more than likely doing anything/everything he can to fix it, and it's just not working much at all as of this point. So given that likelihood, how about instead of busting his chops you give him some positive support to try to help him through a tough time on the floor? His gain is your gain, and beating him up about it won't solve ****.
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    Cool Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Just about like how suicide is a way out of a blind date.....
    I had a blind date once. Well, that isn't quite true, she could see a little out of one eye...... ...

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    no it's not even if it was allowed by the rules it wouldn't be an option.


    He cant be amnestied only players who signed their deal before the new CBA who are still with their current team are eligible.
    Speaking of which, what is the new wrinkle this CBA added with regards to getting rid of contracts early? Not amensty, but the other one. Something like if it were a 4 year deal you could pay it over 8 years or something like that?

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    If his offense met our expectations, he would be the best big man in the east if not the entire NBA. I count myself lucky that Troy Murphy isn't the one patrolling the paint on D anymore.
    You say that like his feet ever entered the defensive paint. If by "patrol" you mean "escort people to the paint like a doorman", then I'm with you. Dude would crush in the Seville Tauromachia league. Sometimes I think he actually blocked other Pacers from coming to stop his man. Naturally helpful I suppose.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Speaking of which, what is the new wrinkle this CBA added with regards to getting rid of contracts early? Not amensty, but the other one. Something like if it were a 4 year deal you could pay it over 8 years or something like that?
    It's know it's called the stretch provision don't know exactly how it works though.

    Google it and came up with this


    EDIT: http://www.hoopsworld.com/cba-scenar...tretch-clause/

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  19. #87
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    3.5 point difference per 100 possessions.

    I too think Roy's D can be overrated here. He's great at protecting the rim, but he doesn't help on screen and rolls, and his man more often than not outplays him. I don't want to trade him yet, but I can't say I'd be disappointed if we did as long as we we're able to get some value back for him.
    I would argue that that is not great. Especially since Hibbert gets Paul George and Hill with him, while Ian usually gets DJ and Sweet Gerald Greene. (Though granted, Mahimi also goes against backups more often).

    About this "anchoring the amazing D stuff..." not sure how much of it is Hibbert per se. Not saying that it is the same thing, but you could say "Derrick McKey held down the starting SF spot on some offensive juggernauts" too...

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
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    That's said, I would love to have a center like Valanciunas on the Pacers.
    Everyone would love a guy like Valanciunas on their team. He will easily be a double-double machine.
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  21. #89
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Here we go with regards to the Stretch provision:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...pares-last-one
    By Larry Coon

    • 2011 CBA: The player's remaining salary and his cap hit may be stretched across twice the number of seasons remaining on the contract, plus one (for example, the salary and cap hit for a player waived with two seasons remaining may be stretched across five seasons). This is entirely at the team's discretion, but it applies only to contracts signed under the 2011 CBA.

    • Who benefits? Teams with bad contracts. For example, if a team has an underperforming player with one season remaining at $12 million, the team can waive him and stretch his salary across three seasons at $4 million per season. This will help with cash flow and provide $8 million in cap relief for the current season.
    Roy has 3 more years on this contract to go as of this June/July.

    If we used this on his contract (something I do NOT advocate), we would be paying for his salary the next seven seasons. After this season, Roy will still be owed about $44.7m. On average, that would result in about $6.4m per year from '13-'14 through '19-'20.

  22. #90
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    I think believing he will get back to his career averages makes more sense then thinking he just magically became much worse on offense for no reason.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    I just know one thing. This thread is in no way official.
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  26. #92
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    You guys who get upset over Roy's deal crack me up. If your boss comes into your office on Monday and offers you more than your worth are you going to tell him no? Are you going to say "Can't do that boss I would be literally (LOL) stealing money from you"

    **** no you wouldn't.

    So shut your damn pie holes about Roy's deal, if you think he's overpaid take it up with the front office not with the damn player you dinguses.

    Is Roy overpaid? Maybe I don't know, but he's certainly not as overpaid as some other big men in the NBA right now check out the Lake show on a nightly basis if you need proof. But I do know that if he's "overpaid" or not all Roy did was get himself a good deal and I can't begrudge any human for doing that because every single sucker in this thread would do the exact same thing.

    That's all I have to say about this absurd thread that takes an asinine premise (that Roy is somehow at fault for being paid his fair market value) and runs wild with it. If you want to be upset about how Roy is playing, fine, but you'll look a whole lot more mature about it if you leave his contract out of it. Murphy never bothered me so much how much he was paid, he upset because he was a lazy *** big man. Roy at least is a tremendous defender. Elite even.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 02-09-2013 at 08:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    give him some positive support to try to help him through a tough time on the floor
    I would like to know how are you going to give him positive support? through twitter? I didn't know this was called "Dr Phill digest"


    Both sides are going all crazy on this thread lol

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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    I'm sorry, but what are you basing this on? I ask because I've been hearing "the offense will come. Give it time" since, oh, the first week of the season. What's the basis for believing he's going to suddenly go from not being able to post up guards on a mismatch to scoring efficiently inside? What's the logic behind that?
    Logical questions demand logical answers. Just don't hold your breath waiting for those answers.

  30. #95

    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SIR-LANCE-ALOT View Post
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    i dont think this thread is about Hibbert being a scrub, its just the expectations for him were so high, and with him being the top paid pacer right now, you would think u would get more out of him than this

    Bingo, we have a winner.

  31. #96

    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
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    Right now Roy is worse on offense than Jeff Foster ever was.

    At least Foster could make putbacks and bunnies.

    I think you guys overrate his defense a little as well.

    LOL!! Foster missed more bunnies than Elmer Fudd did during rabbit season. That comment won't make your point.

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  33. #97
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    I've asked this before & I'll ask it again. Why has Roy almost exclusively gone to using some form of hook shot whenever he is within 10' of the basket? Honestly it's not a natural shot and he rushes it to much and is very inconsistent when he releases the shot.

    I mean I understand it is almost impossible to block that shot but honestly there are times I just wish he'd use both hands and take a better shot. I know everybody wants him to dunk & yes I would like that as well but he's just not going to be able to do that all of the time.

    Has anyone heard as to why he shoots like this all of the time?


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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    no it's not even if it was allowed by the rules it wouldn't be an option.


    He cant be amnestied only players who signed their deal before the new CBA who are still with their current team are eligible.
    Not to mention the fact that the Pacers used their amnesty on Posey.

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  36. #99
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    What's the basis for believing he's going to suddenly go from not being able to post up guards on a mismatch to scoring efficiently inside? What's the logic behind that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Logical questions demand logical answers. Just don't hold your breath waiting for those answers.
    Want a logical answer?

    Here you are:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2012/ (11-12 season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2011/ (10-11 season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2010/ (09-10 season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2009/ (08-09 season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/ (12-13 season)

    Those are Roy Hibbert's shot charts for every single year of his NBA career.

    Problem #1: He is shooting below 50% at rim for the first time in his career.

    Let's see how he shot at rim in his previous seasons:

    08-09: 51.2% (104-203)

    09-10: 60.9% (181-297)

    10-11: 65.1% (181-278)

    11-12: 57.5% (161-280)

    He is shooting 47% (94-200) from this area this season. That's a career low by 4.2%. That's 10.5% lower than what he shot last year from that same area.

    Problem #2: He is shooting below 40% from 3 to 10 feet for the second time in his career. It's a career low as well.

    Let's see how he shot from 3 to 10 feet in his previous seasons:

    08-09: 44.6% (66-148)

    09-10: 45.1% (124-275)

    10-11: 39.7% (158-398)

    11-12: 50.3% (173-344)

    He is shooting 37.7% (81-225) from this area this season. That's a career low by 2%. That's also 12.6% lower than what he shot last year from that same area.

    Problem #3: He is shooting a career low in lay-ups as well.

    Hibbert's FG% in lay-ups over the previous seasons:

    08-09: 41% (59-144) [36 of those, that is 61%, were assisted]

    09-10: 53.3% (114-214) [69 of those, that is 60.5%, were assisted]

    10-11: 54.4% (87-160) [51 of those, that is 58.6%, were assisted]

    11-12: 56.2% (95-169) [45 of those, that is 47.4%, were assisted]

    He is shooting 40.4% (40-99) this season. That's a career low by 0.6%. That's 15.8% lower than what he shot last year. Also, only 15 of his lay-ups are assisted. That means that only 37.5% of his lay-ups were assisted. That's 9.9% lower than his career low and 21.1% lower than his previous career low.

    Should we expect from Hibbert to get by his man and create a lay-up for himself? No, we shouldn't. We should expect him to create a hook shot for himself. A hook shot that he still shoots on a 54.3% (75-138) clip. A hook shot that is assisted on a higher rate (43 of his 75 makes are assisted, that is 57.3%) than his lay-ups for some reason.

    Bonus observation: Roy is rebounding more this season on the offensive end. That results in more tip-ins. Let's check his offensive rebounding numbers first and his tip-ins second.

    Roy's offensive rebounding totals:

    08-09: 115 (70 games) [42 games as a starter but rookie season so not a whole lot of minutes]

    09-10: 177 (81 games) [69 games as a starter]

    10-11: 182 (81 games) [started all but 1 game]

    11-12: 213 (65 games) [lock-out season]

    12-13: 192 (51 games)

    So, in 51 games he has already grabbed more offensive boards than the 10-11 and 09-10 seasons in which he played 81 games. Want to do a comparison in minutes? He played 2.244 minutes in 10-11 and 2.035 minutes in 09-10. He has played 1.461 minutes so far and he has already grabbed more offensive boards than 10-11 and 09-10 (he has also blocked 12 more shots than 11-12, 5 more shots than 09-10 and 6 less than 10-11).

    [If he is to keep up this pace, he will grab more offensive rebounds than the 11-12 season in 5.5 games (needs 21 more and he is grabbing 3.8 per game) and block more shots than the 10-11 season in 2.2 games (needs 6 more and he is blocking 2.7 shots per game). But that's irrelevant with his shooting so it's just a parenthesis.]

    Along with his offensive rebounds, his tip-in attempts have increased as well. Let's start with checking his attempts in every season so far:

    08-09: 25

    09-10: 30

    10-11: 42

    11-12: 59

    12-13: 73

    I already posted the games and minutes above. So, in only 51 games and 1.461 minutes Roy has surpassed his career high in tip-ins by 14.

    He has attempted 73 tip-ins out of 192 offensive rebounds. That means that 38% of his offensive rebounds result into tip-ins.

    In fact, Hibbert's 73 tip-in attempts are more than those of Marc Gasol (24) and Tyson Chandler (43) combined!

    And Tyson Chandler has grabbed more offensive rebounds than Hibbert (215, to be precise).

    Now, let's see his shooting percentage in those tip-ins over the years:

    08-09: 52% (13-25)

    09-10: 50% (15-30)

    10-11: 40.5% (17-42)

    11-12: 40.7% (24-59)

    12-13: 37% (27-73)

    So, he is shooting a career low in tip-ins as well. But Hibbert gets his tip-ins exploiting his length and those shot attempts are usually wild due to being heavily contested and mostly off-balance.

    Should we fault him for the mised tip-ins? Not so much. Why? Because we wouldn't get those shots if it wasn't for Hibbert rebounding the initial miss in the first place. But a coach could instruct him to reduce the amout of tip-ins and either kick the ball out or gather first and then attempt to finish (possibly earning a foul) because it is hurting his FG%. We all know that FG% is what matters in a Center, right?

    What would happen if we were to exclude those tip-in attempts from his overall shooting in each season?

    Let's take a look:

    08-09: He was 47.1% with 198-420. If we were to exclude his tip-ins (13-25), he would be 185-395. So, he would shoot 46.8%.

    09-10: He was 49.5% (49.48% to be precise) with 387-782. If we were to exclude his tip-ins (15-30), he would be 372-752. So, he would shoot 49.5% (49.46 to be precise).

    10-11: He was 46.1% with 410-890. If we were to exclude his tip-ins (17-42), he would be 393-848. So, he would shoot 46.3%.

    11-12: He was 49.7% with 332-668 (note that he went 52-104 for 50% in the playoffs last year). If we were to exclude his tip-ins (24-59), he would be 308-609. So, he would shoot 50.5%.

    12-13: He is 41.6% with 215-517. If we were to exclude his tip-ins (27-73), he would be 188-444. So, he would shoot 42.3%.

    He would still shoot horrible but one cannot dispute that his tip-ins negatively influence his FG%. But that's just my observation.

    The point of this very long post is simple. You are free to skip to this part if you don't want to read the whole post.

    Roy Hibbert has proved in all 4 of his previous seasons that he is a better offensive player than he has shown so far this season. That's why we can tell that it will get better, 3rdStrike. That's our logic, Justin. 4 seasons overpower a single season. If Roy Hibbert shot 60% this season, we would have no reason to conclude that he would shoot 60% for the rest of his career. We could say that he could shoot 50% and see it as a sign of improvement, of course. But saying that he would shoot 60% would be illogical. It's similarly illogical to conclude that he will keep shooting 41.5% like he is now.

    Hibbert is shooting 47.1% for his career. A player does not normally decline at 26 (unless he is Andris Biedrins that just stopped caring for whatever reason). So, it's not far-fetched to believe that he is more likely to return to his career averages than keep shooting at his career low.

    It's just a matter of numbers. You cannot disprove numbers. It's that simple!
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    Default Re: Official Trade Roy Hibbert Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    You guys who get upset over Roy's deal crack me up. If your boss comes into your office on Monday and offers you more than your worth are you going to tell him no? Are you going to say "Can't do that boss I would be literally (LOL) stealing money from you"

    **** no you wouldn't.

    So shut your damn pie holes about Roy's deal, if you think he's overpaid take it up with the front office not with the damn player you dinguses.

    Is Roy overpaid? Maybe I don't know, but he's certainly not as overpaid as some other big men in the NBA right now check out the Lake show on a nightly basis if you need proof. But I do know that if he's "overpaid" or not all Roy did was get himself a good deal and I can't begrudge any human for doing that because every single sucker in this thread would do the exact same thing.

    That's all I have to say about this absurd thread that takes an asinine premise (that Roy is somehow at fault for being paid his fair market value) and runs wild with it. If you want to be upset about how Roy is playing, fine, but you'll look a whole lot more mature about it if you leave his contract out of it. Murphy never bothered me so much how much he was paid, he upset because he was a lazy *** big man. Roy at least is a tremendous defender. Elite even.
    Do you think anyone here cares about Roy Making a lot of money? Nobody gives a **** about that, we're all happy for him getting rich, the problem starts when that money counts against your cap and you are forced to dump Granger or not resign West because of the underperforming overpaid big fellow
    Quote Originally Posted by Piston Prince
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    Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
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