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Thread: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

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    Default Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    http://www.businessinsider.com/avera...2?0=sportspage

    So not only do we have one of the top records in the NBA, we have one of the lowest ticket costs right now.

    Thought this article was good info against the crowd that says "Tickets are too expensive" yet again. Of course, if we packed the building every night, ticket prices would probably go up as well.

    I would be interested to see this graph contrasted against cost of living for all the cities that these tickets are in.

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    There was a time when Conseco first opened and probably through around 2005 that the pacers had some of the highest ticket prices. I remember seeing a list like this one and the pacers weren't in the top 5, but I seem to remember they were like 7th or 8th for a season or two. Combination of a new building and a really good team for a lot of years.

    The balcony ticket prices have been cut drastically over the years. Lower level has stayed about the same, some have increased, some have been lowered. Club seats have lowered a little

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    (warning, after writing this I thought you should know you are about to walk into a world of anger)



    I wonder if this list even counts that massive 2 for 1 or outright free ticket handouts going on. Season ticket holders (at least some) got the chance to get an extra pair of free tickets a few weeks ago which ended up getting me to the ATL game for free.


    Go to TicketMaster and look at the prices for tickets in Dallas. Zoom in so you can look by individual seat and find seats within the first 5-6 rows. Now try and find any seats that cost that much in Indy. Dallas has rows and rows of $1000+ seats, Indy has 8 seats total (next to the benches), and a few years ago I sat in a pair for $250 each because the scalper market was so bad (JOB season).

    And that's the other thing missing from this report I bet - SECONDARY MARKET. Do the same as above but with StubHub. Go find some $5-$10 seats in most of these other arenas. Have fun getting anything close to what you can get at the BiLF.

    (here we go)
    I truly hate the non-fan fanbase of this city, it's embarrassing. They aren't sports savvy, they don't love the sports themselves, they only love the winning. They want to be associated with a winner, and that's all. Otherwise they'd just as soon stay home and watch Honey Boo-Boo.

    Freaking F1 couldn't pull them in, the 500 is struggling to do it, even NASCAR is taking a hit. I think the Colts went from 25% wait to 15% below sold out when Peyton left which is about 25,000 fans jumping ship (joke was on them though). Butler never dreamed of sell-outs till then made a Final 4 run, then suddenly everyone is a big fan of the program.



    To be honest, while I want the Pacers to make money I really loathe the idea of any of the stay-away jacka**es being allowed back in the BiLF ever. You don't like the product, then just go ahead and NEVER come down. Not for Lebron, not for Kobe and not for our boys when they roll through the playoffs.

    It sickens me so much that I'd almost rather sell my tickets to a Piston fan willing to drive down and see his team than to some local yahoo that decides that round 2 of the playoffs is when he'd like to start going to games.



    Secondary rant - I sit over by the bench in close seats. This is an area normally populated with die-hards that you see every game or team personnel. TWICE during the Bobcats game jerks just decided that during an active game, not a timeout, that they'd just STAND AND TALK in the aisle in front of a bunch of us. Just stood there yapping about non-basketball whatever and NOT WATCHING THE GAME EITHER.

    When I visited San Antonio I learned that the ushers are not allowed to let you go to your seat during live game action. Like baseball the etiquette is to wait until a pause in the action and then politely hurry back into your seat. You know, because everyone understands that they are there to see the game, not hob-nob like its a cocktail party.

    But here in Indy even in the higher priced seats (and possibly because of that location) you have a ton of "oh, is there a game, I'm here to talk to my buddy" people that are clearly NOT FANS. And like I said, after the first one in which 2 other people had to ask these guys to sit down (the askers were a 25+ year ticket holder and a team employee), ANOTHER set of people did it later in the 2nd half. In both cases they weren't even looking at the court.

    This doesn't even touch on the people that show up really late. We had two that showed up AFTER HALFTIME, in seats that are rarely used by the normal ticket holder over by the tunnel. Even the team employee said "that's the latest I've ever seen someone show up to a game".

    This is our fanbase. We've got A55, G2 and then maybe 5000 other true blue fans. The rest are heathens, jerks, hypocrites, and other variations of non-fan types.


    And by the way, there are people out of work, on welfare, etc that follow the team as much as they can and would love to be in the arena. That might be another 5K across the state I'd guess. I get that and don't fault them, but teams don't need them to sell-out the arena. There's enough financially capable fans in every city as big as Indy to fill the place up (see Miami games in Indy for example).

    Contrast that with the 300-400K that flat-out don't deserve to have a Pacers team in the state. 10-20K max interested people, 400K that think those people are suckers for caring.



    I'm sorry for the vitriol, but I hate these people to my core. And having been to other cities I can 100% say that other towns have much better fanbases. The Spurs have won a lot, so they have a following. But that doesn't account for the RESPECT FOR THE GAME ITSELF they have. Even in it's best days you'd never see a "must wait till action stops" rule enforced at BiLF, and I was down there during the 2000 playoffs when interest was at it's peak. Even then there was just as much "look at me, I'm at the game with the round ball thingy, Reggie Miller is a good player and they've got some other guys".

    The road games we have gone to had fans around us that loved their team and loved talking basketball with us. Every single city.



    Whew, I'm calmer now.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 02-15-2013 at 12:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Hey Seth, what do you do for a living? If you don't mind me asking.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    (warning, after writing this I thought you should know you are about to walk into a world of anger)



    I wonder if this list even counts that massive 2 for 1 or outright free ticket handouts going on. Season ticket holders (at least some) got the chance to get an extra pair of free tickets a few weeks ago which ended up getting me to the ATL game for free.


    Go to TicketMaster and look at the prices for tickets in Dallas. Zoom in so you can look by individual seat and find seats within the first 5-6 rows. Now try and find any seats that cost that much in Indy. Dallas has rows and rows of $1000+ seats, Indy has 8 seats total (next to the benches), and a few years ago I sat in a pair for $250 each because the scalper market was so bad (JOB season).

    And that's the other thing missing from this report I bet - SECONDARY MARKET. Do the same as above but with StubHub. Go find some $5-$10 seats in most of these other arenas. Have fun getting anything close to what you can get at the BiLF.

    (here we go)
    I truly hate the non-fan fanbase of this city, it's embarrassing. They aren't sports savvy, they don't love the sports themselves, they only love the winning. They want to be associated with a winner, and that's all. Otherwise they'd just as soon stay home and watch Honey Boo-Boo.

    Freaking F1 couldn't pull them in, the 500 is struggling to do it, even NASCAR is taking a hit. I think the Colts went from 25% wait to 15% below sold out when Peyton left which is about 25,000 fans jumping ship (joke was on them though). Butler never dreamed of sell-outs till then made a Final 4 run, then suddenly everyone is a big fan of the program.



    To be honest, while I want the Pacers to make money I really loathe the idea of any of the stay-away jacka**es being allowed back in the BiLF ever. You don't like the product, then just go ahead and NEVER come down. Not for Lebron, not for Kobe and not for our boys when they roll through the playoffs.

    It sickens me so much that I'd almost rather sell my tickets to a Piston fan willing to drive down and see his team than to some local yahoo that decides that round 2 of the playoffs is when he'd like to start going to games.



    Secondary rant - I sit over by the bench in close seats. This is an area normally populated with die-hards that you see every game or team personnel. TWICE during the Bobcats game jerks just decided that during an active game, not a timeout, that they'd just STAND AND TALK in the aisle in front of a bunch of us. Just stood there yapping about non-basketball whatever and NOT WATCHING THE GAME EITHER.

    When I visited San Antonio I learned that the ushers are not allowed to let you go to your seat during live game action. Like baseball the etiquette is to wait until a pause in the action and then politely hurry back into your seat. You know, because everyone understands that they are there to see the game, not hob-nob like its a cocktail party.

    But here in Indy even in the higher priced seats (and possibly because of that location) you have a ton of "oh, is there a game, I'm here to talk to my buddy" people that are clearly NOT FANS. And like I said, after the first one in which 2 other people had to ask these guys to sit down (the askers were a 25+ year ticket holder and a team employee), ANOTHER set of people did it later in the 2nd half. In both cases they weren't even looking at the court.

    This doesn't even touch on the people that show up really late. We had two that showed up AFTER HALFTIME, in seats that are rarely used by the normal ticket holder over by the tunnel. Even the team employee said "that's the latest I've ever seen someone show up to a game".

    This is our fanbase. We've got A55, G2 and then maybe 5000 other true blue fans. The rest are heathens, jerks, hypocrites, and other variations of non-fan types.


    And by the way, there are people out of work, on welfare, etc that follow the team as much as they can and would love to be in the arena. That might be another 5K across the state I'd guess. I get that and don't fault them, but teams don't need them to sell-out the arena. There's enough financially capable fans in every city as big as Indy to fill the place up (see Miami games in Indy for example).

    Contrast that with the 300-400K that flat-out don't deserve to have a Pacers team in the state. 10-20K max interested people, 400K that think those people are suckers for caring.



    I'm sorry for the vitriol, but I hate these people to my core. And having been to other cities I can 100% say that other towns have much better fanbases. The Spurs have won a lot, so they have a following. But that doesn't account for the RESPECT FOR THE GAME ITSELF they have. Even in it's best days you'd never see a "must wait till action stops" rule enforced at BiLF, and I was down there during the 2000 playoffs when interest was at it's peak. Even then there was just as much "look at me, I'm at the game with the round ball thingy, Reggie Miller is a good player and they've got some other guys".

    The road games we have gone to had fans around us that loved their team and loved talking basketball with us. Every single city.



    Whew, I'm calmer now.

    You say we "want to be associated with a winner". Hmm, sounds like we're Boston fans. Or Detroit fans. Or Philly fans. All of these MAJOR markets have had trouble with attendance when the teams have been poor.

    I'm just going to cut and pate from a post I made last week about the same topic, because there's no reason for me to type it all out again:

    To trash the Colts fan base, you have to go back TEN YEARS to find something wrong with the support of the team. Manning left and we had an 87% renewal rate, i.e. 9 out of 10 season ticket holders continued to support the team despite the fact we lost one of the greatest players ever. In two seasons without Manning, we haven't blacked out a single game. Not one! The fact that you have to go back a decade to find a blackout tells you how great Colts support has been in recent years.

    People don't support bad NBA basketball, which is what the Pacers were for many years in the 2000's. Look at Detroit's pathetic attendance. Yes, I realize that the city of Detroit has been hit hard economically, but there are still plenty of well off people in the suburbs around the area. Look at Philly's attendance woes in recent years. Heck, even Boston has been fickle.

    In 2005, for example, the Pacers averaged more fans than the Celtics. This is despite the fact that Boston has a larger arena and is also bigger than Indy by millions and millions of people. The Pacers should never average more fans than Boston in a season, but they did. The Celtics are the team of championships, Bird, Russell, etc, yet no one gave a damn about them in the mid 2000's because there were better shows in town in the Pats and Sox. It was only with the addition of the Big 3 that Boston began caring about the Celtics again. It should also be noted that the Patriots had pathetic attendance in the early 90's before Robert Kraft bought the team and produced a better product. So don't let Boston fans fool you. They are no different than any other fan base, despite being one of the largest metros in the country. The bottom line is that people don't want to watch crappy NBA basketball.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2005

    Some of the pathetic attendance at Pats games:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_Ne...atriots_season

    Multiple crowds at Foxboro stadiums in the 20 and 30 thousands rage. This is despite the fact that the Stadium sat 60,000 people. I don't even think the Colts ever got that low. This is freaking Boston we're talking about here. The supposed most "sports crazed" city in the country. It's an area with millions of more people than Indy. It's also one of the wealthiest areas in the United States. Yet no one was going to Patriots games because they were routinely a horrible team and Bostonians didn't want to support a loser. So I guess they should be called "JERKS" like the people in Indy you're referring to? See, they are no different than the people here who didn't go all in on the Colts until the Colts started producing. The Colts moved here in 1984 and had no history here whatsoever. Many in the area remained loyal to the Packers, Bears, Bengals, Cowboys, etc. The Colts had to build their own brand and identity. You don't do that overnight.

    That's why I always call BS when people act like Boston is some utopia of sports fandom. They didn't give a damn about the Celtics in between the Bird years and the Big 3. They didn't care about the Pats until Belichick, Brady, and Kraft turned the team into a winner.

    You act like Indy is the only place in the United States that has seen trouble with attendance. You're seriously comparing us to Dallas, the fourth largest metropolitan area in the entire country? The Mavericks play in a gigantic area and have made the playoffs for 12 straight years, including two Finals runs and an NBA Championship. Of course they are going to be in more demand than the Pacers. As far as the Spurs are concerned, I'm guessing the four championships have something to do with the enthusiastic fan support. Butler? Seriously? Who becomes a diehard fan of a tiny division 1 school that they aren't an alumn of? There was no reason for any non-Butler alumn to ever be a Butler fan until they went on their run. Any other market would have reacted the same way as Indy. It was a nice story and hyped people up. Nothing wrong with that.

    You completely absolve the Pacers of any blame for the attendance problems and put it all on the fans. This is a business, and if you run a crappy business then you will feel the negative effects. From 2004-2010, the Pacers were a horribly run franchise. The Brawl, Artest trade demand, and off the court incidents took a massive toll. We got rid of the bad seeds, but followed them with boring players who were coached by Jim O'Brien and lost a lot of games. You don't fix 6 years of bad will in just two years.

    The people of Indiana are NOT to blame for the decline of the Indy 500. From 1911-1995, the Indianapolis 500 was at the absolute top of the racing pyramid in the entire world. The best racers from all over the world earned their starting spots by being one of the fastest 33. That all changed in 1996 with the shameful 25/8 rule which meant that qualifying in Indy no longer meant being one of the fastest 33. The act of guaranteeing 25 spots to racers in an outlaw league destroyed the chain of excellence that could be traced to Ray Harroun ,and dishonored all of the men who died at Indy trying to be the best. The fact that a scab with practically no experience could effectively buy their way into the Indy 500 was the ultimate sin that many could never forgive. The decline in support of the Indy 500 isn't an Indy problem, it's a national problem. The national TV ratings prove this. There was an immediate drop in TV ratings after 1995.

    I've been to every 500 since 1998. That's 15 straight. Hopefully it's 50 straight someday. I love it. But I know that what I'm seeing is not what those who went from 1911-1995 witnessed. Once the chain of excellence was destroyed, the event was left to be a hallow shell of itself forever more. The people of Indiana are not to blame for the bad attendance at the Speedway. Television viewing across the entire country declined because people didn't appreciate the sacred Indianapolis 500 being used as a bargaining chip in a power grab, which forever left a bad mark on the sport. From 1911-1995, there weren't attendance problems at the Speedway. Once Indy stopped being about "The Best of the Best", it wasn't the Indy 500 anymore.

    As for Nascar, well Nascar racing sucks at the Speedway. The track is too narrow for a good NASCAR race. It had initial hype because NASCAR racing at Indy for the first time was a big deal, but it lost it's luster once people realized the racing sucked.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 02-15-2013 at 01:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Given many of the Big time College Basketball Programs located in Indiana.....how does College Basketball interest compare to the crowds that are drawn to NBA, NFL, Nascar and F1 racing?
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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    [B]
    Secondary rant -
    But that doesn't account for the RESPECT FOR THE GAME ITSELF they have. Even in it's best days you'd never see a "must wait till action stops" rule enforced at BiLF, and I was down there during the 2000 playoffs when interest was at it's peak. Even then there was just as much "look at me, I'm at the game with the round ball thingy, Reggie Miller is a good player and they've got some other guys".
    Interesting take Seth, however as pointed out no one from the BLF staff would enforce something like this.... plus if the Simons had no problem putting in corporate suites do we really have to think it's all about actual Pacer fans?
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    The fact that you have to go back a decade to find a blackout tells you how great Colts support has been in recent years.
    That's not on your side of the debate. NO team ever blacked out a game in any city while in the MIDDLE of one of the greatest runs ever. This wasn't Colts 1998. This was 2003.

    1999 - 13-3
    Manning, Harrison, Edge (OROY), Vandy,
    They had a BYE and even then saw 5000 fans take seats in the RCA dome in a massive fan embarrassment.

    2000 - 10-6, including huge win over division winner Miami in Miami as they won their final 3 games
    Same stars, big 3 all make the Pro-Bowl
    Lost in OT in Miami in playoffs

    2001 - 6-10
    add Reggie Wayne to mix, Dilger made the Pro-Bowl
    5 game losing streak mid-season cost Mora his job and resulted in the "Playoffs?" quote for good reason

    2002 - 10-6
    Dungy is the new coach
    Add Freeney to complete "classic" Colts of Manning, Edge, Harrison, Wayne, Freeney (also Glenn and Saturday on OL)
    Got killed in playoffs by Jets

    So the Colts go into 2003 with 3 playoff letdowns, though 2 were squeekers, and with the full list of future Ring of Honor guys on the team (minus Mathis)

    2003 - 12-4
    The team has tons of stars most of whom had been there for years, some were Pro-Bowlers already, and the games they couldn't sell out were division rivals as I recall. I was luckily out of town for one of them, either the TEN or JAX game, so I got to see it. Division rival and a team that is clearly a serious playoff contender with a shot to win the division and a playoff game or two (which they did do).


    That's the BLACKOUT, not the season ticket sell-out. They STILL COULDN'T SELL OUT season tix, they just found ways to avoid blackouts. Peyton in his prime with Reggie and Harrison in their prime and they can't sell out. I could walk up and buy tickets.

    After they San Diego win where Peyton broke the TD record I went downstairs to the box office and bought playoff tickets right then. That's because they hadn't sold out their season tickets. And the seats I got weren't upper 2 rows, these were middle of the upper section, toward the corner by choice. So season tickets weren't "barely missing", they were shy of sell-outs by 5-8K I'd guess. Yes they sold singles and walk-ups, but this was one of the greatest offensive teams of all-time with maybe multiple HOF players.


    And if you put that product on the field from 1999-2002 in any other city, there are NO blackouts. And if you put that product on the field through 99-2006 you have a massive ticket waiting list, let alone selling out season tickets.


    Nope, Peyton had to push the noses of the fanbase into the "hey, we might go freaking undefeated" before you could get 60000 to agree to come to 10 games a year ahead of time. "oh, a perfect season and you guarantee a SB win....well, okay I guess I'll spend $1000 on season tickets instead of buying a 2nd truck".

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    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    Interesting take Seth, however as pointed out no one from the BLF staff would enforce something like this.... plus if the Simons had no problem putting in corporate suites do we really have to think it's all about actual Pacer fans?
    The Spurs have corporate seats, and when I went to SAS I sat literally in the first row directly behind the Pacers bench. One of the nicest seats you could get. So that's a money section. Ditto when we were in Sacto and GSW, and when I went to Minny this year. Minny was the closest to "rude" that Indy is, and that was more about the poor stadium layout.

    SAS just respects the game. It's their one show, and yes the team wins, but they have no problem telling Joe McRich to hold his drink and freaking wait. Frankly there isn't that much foot traffic during the game, period. Not to mention how well they all know their team. I wore a Hill jersey and that was universally lauded from everyone I ran into, yet they also love Leonard.

    Dallas was in the ballpark too as I recall, and even less successful Houston showed a pretty dedicated crowd.


    The Sacto people were thrilled to see us there. Ushers and fans both talked to us and loved having us there and their stadium/team.


    Indy has a sense of "taking for granted" to its crowds. There are TONS of great fans, but you can't use them to prove the other people are okay. It's the fact that I can see these other people being positive, involved and great fans that proves it's not just me. There is a clear cultural difference in this fanbase.



    BTW, IU was drawing fans even when they struggled, even when they hired a crooked coach. What other team could weather that storm and still draw crowds? None. Why? Win 3-4 titles and always be in contention for one for decades, that's all. You know, just the normal "one of the greatest runs ever".

    Meanwhile Cleveland is begging for a 3 year run of greatness, let alone decades. Ditto Millwaukee, even Detroit hasn't sustained teams for decades. The Bad Boys had a shorter run than the Colts and only 1 one more title, but that team still had a ton of fans despite sharing the town with the Red Wings, Tigers and Lions.

    I know the Packers are special, but that fanbase was with them long after Starr and long before Favre. It's a one team town, but so was Indy for a long time. The Starr Packers could be the ABA Pacers, similar time frame almost and then followed by some down years. Green Bay draws from a smaller area. But imagine the Packers with "curtains" to hide the upper section of the stadium in 1977, ala the Pacers in 1983.

    The Pacers were barely a decade removed from OWNING EVERYONE. Imagine the crowds we have now if JO/Ron had just crushed for 2-3 titles like the ABA Pacers did, instead of the brawl. That's what this city did when there wasn't even a Colts team to go against. And even when there was a Colts team it stunk for 3-4 seasons, using the strike to make a playoff appearance.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 02-15-2013 at 01:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    That's not on your side of the debate. NO team ever blacked out a game in any city while in the MIDDLE of one of the greatest runs ever. This wasn't Colts 1998. This was 2003.

    1999 - 13-3
    Manning, Harrison, Edge (OROY), Vandy,
    They had a BYE and even then saw 5000 fans take seats in the RCA dome in a massive fan embarrassment.

    2000 - 10-6, including huge win over division winner Miami in Miami as they won their final 3 games
    Same stars, big 3 all make the Pro-Bowl
    Lost in OT in Miami in playoffs

    2001 - 6-10
    add Reggie Wayne to mix, Dilger made the Pro-Bowl
    5 game losing streak mid-season cost Mora his job and resulted in the "Playoffs?" quote for good reason

    2002 - 10-6
    Dungy is the new coach
    Add Freeney to complete "classic" Colts of Manning, Edge, Harrison, Wayne, Freeney (also Glenn and Saturday on OL)
    Got killed in playoffs by Jets

    So the Colts go into 2003 with 3 playoff letdowns, though 2 were squeekers, and with the full list of future Ring of Honor guys on the team (minus Mathis)

    2003 - 12-4
    The team has tons of stars most of whom had been there for years, some were Pro-Bowlers already, and the games they couldn't sell out were division rivals as I recall. I was luckily out of town for one of them, either the TEN or JAX game, so I got to see it. Division rival and a team that is clearly a serious playoff contender with a shot to win the division and a playoff game or two (which they did do).


    That's the BLACKOUT, not the season ticket sell-out. They STILL COULDN'T SELL OUT season tix, they just found ways to avoid blackouts. Peyton in his prime with Reggie and Harrison in their prime and they can't sell out. I could walk up and buy tickets.

    After they San Diego win where Peyton broke the TD record I went downstairs to the box office and bought playoff tickets right then. That's because they hadn't sold out their season tickets. And the seats I got weren't upper 2 rows, these were middle of the upper section, toward the corner by choice. So season tickets weren't "barely missing", they were shy of sell-outs by 5-8K I'd guess. Yes they sold singles and walk-ups, but this was one of the greatest offensive teams of all-time with maybe multiple HOF players.


    And if you put that product on the field from 1999-2002 in any other city, there are NO blackouts. And if you put that product on the field through 99-2006 you have a massive ticket waiting list, let alone selling out season tickets.


    Nope, Peyton had to push the noses of the fanbase into the "hey, we might go freaking undefeated" before you could get 60000 to agree to come to 10 games a year ahead of time. "oh, a perfect season and you guarantee a SB win....well, okay I guess I'll spend $1000 on season tickets instead of buying a 2nd truck".

    Yes, they blacked out one game ten years ago. And they were not in the middle of one of the greatest runs ever. You can't say they were in the middle of it when they still hadn't even won a playoff game yet. 2003 wasn't the middle of the run, it was the start of the run. You can't consider a team to be a legit SB contender when the team hasn't even won a playoff game yet. When we smoked Denver here in the 03/04 playoffs, that's when we became a Super Bowl contender. The run was from 2003-2010.

    The facts are on my side as far as the Colts are concerned. You have to go back ten years ago to one blackout against a divisional team when Manning still hadn't won a playoff game to prove your point.

    Did the Colts blackout a single game this year after releasing Manning? No

    Did the Colts blackout a single game last year during the 2-14 season with Curtis Painter as the QB? No

    Did the Colts blackout a single game the year before that, or the year before that, or the year before that, or the year before that? No, No, No, No.

    Rome wasn't built in a day. The Colts came to Indy under an enormous cloud of controversy after leaving Baltimore. Many people were fans of the Packers, Bengals, Bears, Steelers, Cowboys, etc, and kept their alliances to those team. Not everyone decided to cheer for the home team, at least not initially. Taking fans from popular teams while being in a small market is no easy task. Why do you think the Packers have such a large fanbase? It's because they have years and years and years of excellence. It takes time to build. The Colts didn't exactly get off on the right foot from 1984-1998 as most of those seasons were filled with losing.

    I showed how the Patriots had FAR WORSE attendance than any of these Colts years in the late 80's and early 90's, despite making the Super Bowl in 1985. This is while being located in a large wealthy market.

    People are fickle everywhere. You make it seem like Indy people are some rare species.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Given many of the Big time College Basketball Programs located in Indiana.....how does College Basketball interest compare to the crowds that are drawn to NBA, NFL, Nascar and F1 racing?
    IU great, always.
    Purdue - more than half empty if the team isn't a Big 10 contender
    Butler - few until they made a Final Game run, and then did it again, then casual fans came out of everywhere. This despite it being in Indy and being one of the classic stadiums in America.

    Purdue football is as bad as basketball. The instant they weren't title contenders no one went. We drive up for one game every year no matter what and it's just sad.

    IUPUI is tough to count due to the gym size, but as I recall they did pretty well when Hill was there and the team made the NCAA tourney.


    I'd say the most consistent draw in Indiana is high school basketball.

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    Yes, they blacked out one game ten years ago.
    TWO. Of eight. Blacked out. Division rivals. That's not "sold out", that's such poor sales that pre-housing market depression they couldn't get close enough to just buy it out and get on TV.

    Name another NFL city that won 10+ games in 3 of 4 years that had a single blackout in the history of ever. You think Buffalo would have a blackout if they won 12, 10, 6, 10 games in the 4 prior seasons and had Jim Kelly at QB, Reed at WR and Thurman at RB (and PM is better than Kelly). Hell no. Not 10 years ago, not 20 years ago.

    This "that only happened one time back when" doesn't make any season. Yes, after they won a SB and nearly won another and just missed a couple of PERFECT SEASONS and set a TD record and had 3-5 HOF players on the same team they started selling out and avoided blackouts.

    That's not a positive. That's Chris Rock saying "waddaya want, a cookie for doing something you are supposed to be doing".

    If Luck goes 8-8 the next 2 years you'll be able to walk up and buy lower level tickets on game day.



    I've been going to Colts and Pacers games since 78-79 era. I bought tix as a poor student and when both teams were in bad shape. I've seen the interest and it's always been terrible unless you put a fans face right in front of "this might be the greatest thing that ever happens", and only then will they go.


    You are trying to give them a pass like they were watching 10 years of 20-62 or 6-10 football. AFTER THE AFC CG vs Pitt, Jimbaugh and Faulk couldn't even get fans to sell out the stadium. The next year, even after they beat Dallas in Dallas. You could still walk up and get tickets and the reason was always the same "yeah, but that was a fluke".



    Indy has had great success at times and the response is typically "meh, I'll believe it when you win 60 games for 8 years in a row and Jordan plays for the team".

    Why do you think the Miami games sell out? Or Chicago or Lakers? It's not people winning the lottery and suddenly having the money. It's not a sudden winning streak by the Pacers.

    The money exists in this city to sell out games. But that money is only interested in seeing Lebron or Kobe. The Chicago games are drive downs or transplants.

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Why do you think the Miami games sell out? Or Chicago or Lakers? It's not people winning the lottery and suddenly having the money. It's not a sudden winning streak by the Pacers.

    The money exists in this city to sell out games. But that money is only interested in seeing Lebron or Kobe. The Chicago games are drive downs or transplants.

    Having millions and millions and millions and millions more people than Indy might have something to do with it. If Indy had Chicago-like population, then I would bet everything I own that we would be on a decades long streak of sellouts.

    I'm running short on time and will try to address the rest of what you said later.

    Also, the Heat did NOT have good attendance back in the early 2000's after Zo got sick and team fell off the map. Look at 2002 for example. They filled to just 81% capacity. That's pathetic for one of the largest (and richest) metro areas in the country. It was only when Wade exploded and they added Shaq that they began having great attendance. 2003-2004 was just 77% capacity! And that was a playoff year!

    http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2002

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Having millions and millions and millions and millions more people than Indy might have something to do with it. If Indy had Chicago-like population, then I would bet everything I own that we would be on a decades long streak of sellouts.
    He's talking about when those teams play here, not about their home sellouts.
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    Did the Colts blackout a single game last year during the 2-14 season with Curtis Painter as the QB? No
    What the F*** are you talking about? This isn't on your side.

    THE GAMES WERE ALREADY SOLD OUT BEFORE WE KNEW MANNING WOULDN'T PLAY. That's what season ticket sell-out means. It means that a SB caliber team with a new stadium sells 60K tickets back at the end of the previous season...you know, when Manning was going for another MVP run and was going to play here till he retired. So they were assured of no blackouts back in FEB or MAR, long before Manning was done.


    And to get that list of season ticket buyers and wait list they had to make 2 SuperBowls and just miss a couple of perfect seasons.



    Then all it took was A) the number one pick in the draft and a guy considered "once in a lifetime" as a QB prospect and B) a series of surprising wins.

    They were NOT SOLD OUT in the summer. They were overbooked by 25% (125% of stadium capacity wanted seats) to about 85% when the Manning trade news came out.

    Had they kept Curtis Painter due to a tough draft spot then they 100% would have blacked out games based on the prior season's results.

    And I went to a couple of those Painter games and that place was not full. If they'd offered money back to ticket holders without losing their right to buy in the future then they 100% would have blacked out games last year (ie, give them the option to not pay for the 2-14 team).

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Seth, I take it you don't want to answer my question?
    .

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    What the F*** are you talking about? This isn't on your side.

    THE GAMES WERE ALREADY SOLD OUT BEFORE WE KNEW MANNING WOULDN'T PLAY. That's what season ticket sell-out means. It means that a SB caliber team with a new stadium sells 60K tickets back at the end of the previous season...you know, when Manning was going for another MVP run and was going to play here till he retired. So they were assured of no blackouts back in FEB or MAR, long before Manning was done.


    And to get that list of season ticket buyers and wait list they had to make 2 SuperBowls and just miss a couple of perfect seasons.



    Then all it took was A) the number one pick in the draft and a guy considered "once in a lifetime" as a QB prospect and B) a series of surprising wins.

    They were NOT SOLD OUT in the summer. They were overbooked by 25% (125% of stadium capacity wanted seats) to about 85% when the Manning trade news came out.

    Had they kept Curtis Painter due to a tough draft spot then they 100% would have blacked out games based on the prior season's results.

    And I went to a couple of those Painter games and that place was not full. If they'd offered money back to ticket holders without losing their right to buy in the future then they 100% would have blacked out games last year (ie, give them the option to not pay for the 2-14 team).
    Fair point about 2011. But 2012 is completely on my side. All you have is "if this wouldn't have happened, and if this wouldn't have happened, and if this wouldn't have happened, then we wouldn't have sold out." No one knew that the Colts were going to go 11-5 when we played the Vikings in September, but the game sold out. No one knew that the Colts were going to go 11-5 when we played the lowly Jags in September, but the game sold out. The Colts were 2-3 when they played the lowly Browns in October, yet the game still sold out.

    87% of the ticket holders renewed despite us going 2-14 and then cutting one of the most legendary players ever. And who cares if the games aren't sold out in the summer? Are games blacked out based on selling tickets in the summer? All that matters is if they are sold out at game time, which they were.

    You have to go back a decade to find a flaw in the fanbase. I have 9 years of goodwill from fans on my side.

    Besides, my point was never that Indy fans weren't fickle. My point has been that they are the same as people anywhere else, and that it gets magnified because we are such a small market and don't have millions of extra people to pull from.

    I showed how pitiful Pats attendance was in the early 90's before Kraft bought the team. Multiple games in the twenty and thirty thousands.

    I showed that the Celtics had worse attendance than the Pacers in 2005, despite having a larger arena in a much larger city. The Celtics are the most successful team in league history. That shouldn't ever happen. The fact is, they didn't care about the Celts again until Ticket and Ray arrived.

    Detroit and Philly have had pitiful attendance in recent years, despite being huge areas.

    The Heat had some poor attendance a decade ago despite playing in a large wealthy area.

    My problem isn't that you accuse Indy fans of being fickle, it's that you act as if we are the only fickle fans on the planet.

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    He's talking about when those teams play here, not about their home sellouts.
    Whoops.

    My point about the Heat is still important though. Bad attendance in the early 2000's despite being a massive rich area.

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    the Lisa Olsen incident of 1990 did to Patriots attendance what the brawl did to Pacers attendance.

    The day after the Patriots' only victory of the season, tight end Zeke Mowatt, running back Robert Perryman and wide receiver Michael Timpson stood in front of Boston Globe reporter Lisa Olson semi-naked and sexually harassed her in the Patriots’ locker room at Foxboro Stadium. The incident proved a major embarrassment for the franchise, and the team lost its final 14 games, and was accused of quitting in most of the losses.
    As that scandal erupted, the city (with some justification) labeled the team as a group of thugs. The main newspaper in town had the reporter who was the victim of the thuggery- imagine how much that helped! Them being 5-11 the year before and 1-15 didn't help any either, as the year went on. That was a huge black eye that was not removed until Kraft bought the team and brought in Bill Parcells plus totally upgraded the ability of fans to get there. Before about 1995, any crowd over 30K caused literally hours of traffic jams before and after the game on the two lane highway (!) that was the only access road at the time, and that had no interstate nearby either, at the time.

    It took winning over a new generation of fans with winning and a positive in-the-building experience. I don't think many of the 80s-era Patriots fans ever came back, frankly- they wrote off the team for good as thugs. Their kids did start coming, though.

    The Pacers can do the same but it may take a lot of success and a lot of winning over the fans who were young back when Reggie was in his prime. I don't think we'll win back the people who wrote the Pacers off as thugs after the brawl, no matter what. No matter how reasonable the argument is. They have an unshakable opinion and will support that opinion with other excuses, if need be, such as ticket prices or the cost of a hot dog. Their kids? Yes, you can get them in the door. You have to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    [......There's enough financially capable fans in every city as big as Indy to fill the place up (see Miami games in Indy for example).....
    I went to the Pacers v Clippers game last year and sat beside two guys wearing Clippers jerseys (lots of people in BiLF were wearing Clippers jerseys). I asked them where they were from and they said "Indy". I asked, "why the Clippers?" The response was "because Chris Paul is the best PG in the game and Griffin is a human highlight reel." I tested him and asked him where Chris Paul went to college and he couldn't tell me.....fantastic.

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    the Lisa Olsen incident of 1990 did to Patriots attendance what the brawl did to Pacers attendance.



    As that scandal erupted, the city (with some justification) labeled the team as a group of thugs. Them being 5-11 the year before and 1-15 didn't help any either, as the year went on. That was a huge black eye that was not removed until Kraft bought the team and brought in Bill Parcells plus totally upgraded the ability of fans to get there. Before about 1995, any crowd over 30K caused literally hours of traffic jams before and after the game on the two lane highway (!) that was the only access road at the time, and that had no interstate nearby either, at the time.

    It took winning over a new generation of fans with winning and a positive in-the-building experience. I don't think many of the 80s-era Patriots fans ever came back, frankly- they wrote off the team as thugs. Their kids did start coming, though.

    The Pacers can do the same but it may take a lot of success and a lot of winning over the fans who were young back when Reggie was in his prime. I don't think we'll win back the people who wrote the Pacers off as thugs, no matter what. Their kids? Maybe.

    Thanks for the perspective on Patriots attendance. I'm not trying to pick on Boston fans, but am just using them as an example to show that people in Indy really aren't that different than people anywhere else. Human nature is similar everywhere. The Patriots had to build up goodwill both in the community and on the field before fans were 100% in, just like the Colts did here.

    Also, I will argue that in 2003, the Colts still had the Baltimore stigma attached to them. There wasn't much Indy history, aside from the miracle 95 run. Manning had put up some impressive seasons, but he didn't win a playoff game in any of the first five. From 2003-2010, the Colts built a history in Indy that Indy could fully embrace. Now the Colts have a rich history in Indy, something they did not have ten years ago. In ten years, an entire new generation of Colts fans have come of age. These people grew up rooting for a successful horseshoe.

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    On a related note, it sure p*sses me off that people didn't buy more of the Daihatsu automobiles. I really liked those cars a lot and if other people who were buying Hondas or Fords or whatever really had an appreciation of great automotive engineering, then they surely would have bought more Daihatsu! I used to see people with a Daihatsu who didn't even deserve it, they weren't enthusiasts! They were just driving the cars to the grocery store or to work and stuff, never treating it with respect the way I treated my beloved Daihatsu. The only ones who really loved those cars was me and the dudes in the D-Hu Zone.

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    Default Re: Average Ticket Prices for all 30 NBA Teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    TWO. Of eight. Blacked out. Division rivals. That's not "sold out", that's such poor sales that pre-housing market depression they couldn't get close enough to just buy it out and get on TV.
    I think you're wrong. It was just one.

    Per Chappell, the Colts have sold out 113 of their last 114 regular-season and playoff games, with 79 in a row. No game has been blacked out at Indianapolis since September 21, 2003, against the Jaguars.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-home-opener/

    This article was written before the 2012 season. According to Chappel, only one game in the last 114 has been blacked out. 114 divided by 8 home games a year is roughly 14.25 years worth of games. If Chappel is correct, and I have no reason to believe he isn't, then only one game in 2003 was blacked out. Not two.

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    How does average household income and amount of disposable income factor into this when it comes to a state like Indiana? It would seem that there is obvious interest in college and high school games...but my guess is that the cost to go to these games is less compared to professional sporting events. Could it be that Indy is more of a "show me that you can win before i spend my hard earned money on your team"type of fanbase? I mean, how much support did the Colts haves before they started winning again?

    Before you get upset at what I'm suggesting, I am just spitballing here trying to figure out why a Basketball state wouldn't really support a professional team that is actually winning games.
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