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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    How do I know that this was a great win? Because my complaint of the night is that Frank didn’t get the starters out of the game at about the 3 min. mark and let the deep bench guys end this. I was worried about some dumb bad luck injury happening when the game was already well in hand.

    But guess what if that’s my problem, I don’t have a real problem.

    Look folks there are times to criticize, question, demand, admonish, suggest, be frustrated, whine, *****, moan, cry & throw tantrums.

    This isn’t one of those times.

    This will probably be the most useless post I’ve ever written because this is going to have nothing but praise and adulation for our beloved Indiana Pacers. Hell in fact I would lead us all in a chorus of the old Duke Tomato song “boom baby” if we were all together.

    I have been a Pacers fan all of my life and frankly I have been fortunate enough to see a lot of big games with a lot of great teams that we have put together and I’m telling you that this win tonight, for me anyway, makes me as proud of our guys as almost any of the other games I’ve seen.

    3 games in 3 nights and on the 3rd night we come out and stomp a mud hole into a team that prior to this had won 4 of its last 5 who had been resting at home since Monday and has a relatively easy schedule as far as travel goes since this is their 6th home game in a row.

    Look I don’t want to hear about Thad Young, he would not have changed the outcome of this game. He might have made the loss something less but they still would have lost. I don’t want to hear about Andrew Bynum that is their fault for taking a risk on a player who has both a legitimate injury and a previously questioned work ethic. They traded away a really good player who along with Young might have helped them but at some point in time & as far as I’m concerned that time is now we have to stop apologizing for beating teams who are missing injured or sick players. You play the teams that get on the floor with you and that’s all you can do, you don’t control their players.

    Okay I do have one other complaint but it is not against the Pacers. Unless the Wells Fargo Center sits 25,000 people there was no way in hell that there were 15,299 people at that game. If they had 12,000 people present I would be stunned. This is simply a matter of scalpers/brokers buying tickets or corp. sponsors buying up large chunks of tickets, that or everybody was in the bathroom all at once every time I saw the crowd.

    Look the team has to maintain its composure, they have to take it one game at a time and not get to up or down or any other cliché that you can come up with. But we as fans don’t have to.

    Tonight’s game is not one to be taken lightly. This was a huge win. Huge in the fact that had they lost only the bitterest of the bitter would have been on here complaining about a loss. The amount of time these guys have put on the court over the past few weeks is astounding.

    So why was this game so great you may ask, other than the fact that they won it?

    Because they went a different route tonight than they have the past few games and were not only able to prevail but in the end they totally dominated and frankly humiliated the 76ers (much like the Raptors did to us early in the season I will remind you).

    We have been winning the past few games playing good defense but really for us stellar offense. Well tonight I’m sure due to tired legs the field goal % was just not that good and frankly early on as Quinn stated we were settling for jumpers.

    So what did we do? We turned the volume on our defense up to 11 and completely shut these guys down. Do you think Evan Turner shot 10% from the field because he just had an off night? Sure there may be some of that but I think the fact that he never had good shots or he only got to take the shots we let him take had more to do with it than anything. BTW, you think Philly would like to have a do over on that draft? I do.

    Only Wright & Moultrie hit 50% or better from the floor and again I’m saying because Roy Hibbert was an interior beast and altered a lot of shots and every other player out there was cutting the lanes and slapping at the ball and not letting their man get open shots.

    In other words our defense was outstanding again and my God is it so nice to know that when our offense doesn’t click that these guys not only have the ability to turn it up a notch, they can turn it up 3 or 4, and can win a game based almost on defense alone.

    I’m just going to go ahead and give grades tonight but I’m going to do it in a very unusual way for me.

    Everybody and I mean everybody who played tonight gets an A+ even if their individual performance didn’t meet that criteria. To me the team played at an A+ level so therefore everybody gets it.

    But as we all know whenever you have a team play at that level you have to look to the bench and I know that I am almost a fan boy when it comes to him but I can’t tell you enough what a great coach Frank the Tank is.

    Did you hear Roy Hibbert in the post game interview? Yes he was funny, yes he went a long way in smoothing over some ruffled feathers people have had with him lately but if you paid close enough attention behind all of the comedy behind all of the affirmation that he is a good hard worker and great person was the meat of the subject about Frank Vogel.
    What was Roy fired up about with the 3 games in 3 night’s issue? He was fired up because he said Coach told us that the NBA could have scheduled the game for March but that would have made the Bulls play 4 games in 5 nights and that the coach had us fired up about this.

    Why do I love this? Because who knows how much truth there was here. Oh I’m sure that everything is true but who knows if that was even an option. Frank may very well have looked at a calendar and decided that this could have happened. But I have a feeling that it was implied to the team that the NBA was screwing with them over the Bulls.

    It MIGHT have been true, it may not have been but either way Frank seized it set fire to it and formed it as any master glass blower would when creating an ornate decoration.

    Also not to be stopped there later in the interview Stacy asks what he has done to come out of his offensive slump and he immediately tells us about Frank and him sitting down for a conversation and after that he got more confidence.

    Frank Vogel it the best overall coach the Pacers have ever had in the NBA. I said it, I stand by it and I’m not ashamed one bit to admit it. I love Larry Browns teachings but the man was at best a difficult human being to deal with and ultimately he really was a coaching prima donna. Rick Carlisle was a master tactician but as Gnome & Hicks can tell you he had a very poor interpersonal relationship with staff and players both here and in Detroit. Larry Bird was Larry Bird and that meant winning but at the end of the day Larry wasn’t drawing up plays on a napkin and frankly I think he worked very well with that veteran team that he didn’t have to plead with them to do their jobs.

    No Frank is the right person at the right place and at the right time.

    Speaking of which poor Doug Collins tonight looked like he has aged 30 years since the start of the season. I wonder how much longer he will be in Philly. BTW, he’s a good coach who really has learned a lot of humility over the years and it’s too bad this is happening to him. Well to bad other than tonight that is.

    Quietly without anybody really taking much notice Tyler Hansbrough has turned into an actual defender on the court. I was talking to Seth last night at the game about this and we all know how he feels about Tyler but even he was surprised to see how actually effective he was on the defensive end. In fact Uncle Buck should love this comparison but Tyler really is becoming almost Jeff Foster like in his ability to defend and rotate laterally without fouling. He is not and will never be a real rim defender but you look at the disruption he does on the perimeter and it’s really kind of amazing for a guy that big and strong to be deflecting the ball as often as he does.

    If you go over our 5 game winning streak, isn’t that sweet to say, you really have to say that our Power Forward position has had zero let down in a game. In fact if David West weren’t playing like a Greek God right now Tyler would probably be getting far more min. on the floor but how hard is it to get time when David West is just an absolute rock on the floor.

    Equally as quiet is George Hill in his play. He is almost becoming a silent assassin because you watch him all game and he scores here and there and you really don’t think much of it but then at the end of the game he’s got 15 or so points and you think, really? Tonight he had 1 turn over to go along with his 5 boards and 5 assists. He does though come through when we need it most usually with a big three to either end a skid or put the hammer down.

    Also while I normally like to trash on him even I have been happy with Augustine these past couple of games. He has been driving to the rim and getting to the foul line, not to mention being the groin enforcer for us, as well as hitting his three’s. Him finding some offense on the bench has been a blessing to say the least.

    What about Orlando Johnson’s play over this period? Am I the only one who doesn’t even give it a second thought when he pulls up for a three? That shot is pure, that is all there is to say about it. Draft value to the extreme for the Pacers at the two guard spot this year, both players picked in the second round.

    Was there something to complain about? Oh I’m sure if we try hard enough we could find something but what is the point.

    There is nothing and I mean NOTHING more any of us as fans could expect from this team over these past 3 games, let alone 5 overall. They have been entertaining, competitive and even fundamental for some of you old folks (I’m saying I’m young at heart tonight).

    Actually now that I think about it that could be one hell of a slogan for the Pacers to use.

    Come see your Indiana Pacers with something for everyone. Want some excitement here watch this Paul George reverse alley oop dunk in traffic. Need some speed watch as Lance “the freight Train” Stephenson barrels the length of the court for a circus shot. Or are you really ready to see some old school fundamental basketball then here watch this David West step back jumper over and over and over while no one can stop it.

    Look I know I’m off the rails here and once again I will apologize because I am violating the first rule of being the leading cynic of the Digest, but tonight there is just no hiding my inner sunshine.



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  3. #2
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Orlando's shot is so pure we all knew his fade away contested three was going in. Dudes going to be a real strong player. JJ Reddick like I think..
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Really great game. I am so proud of these guys.

    I've really enjoyed watching this team grow the past few years. It's making their success now even sweeter.

    Watching PG and Lance grow this season has been amazing. Sometimes I find myself just watching those two play instead of watching the game. Boy are they something else!

    David West...just wow. He's just fundamental in every sense of the word. He's this team's rock.

    I'd love for this team to win the title this year and I believe they can do it. But I just want to say it's been a joy to watch them play and grow this season, and no matter how far they get in the playoffs, as long as they keep playing as hard as they have been, I'll be proud of them no matter what.

    Another thing, all's went quiet on the Danny front since that last update a few days ago. I feel that they're going to bring him out any of these next 2-3 games. Can't wait to see him back and him bring another edge to the team. He will most definitely help this team.

    The bench has really started to pick up. I could trust Tyler, Ian, DJ, and OJ playing during the playoffs... and maybe Sam Young if he doesn't try to do too much offensively.

    Frank has been amazing. For as horrible as JOB was, he sure left us with a gem. He made sure Frank would be next in line for the coaching job if he was fired (which was very likely to happen). So thanks for that JOB.

    And Larry. Thanks for this team. You really should come back. This group of guys is really turning into something special. They really personify you. No fear, never give up.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    I agree that Tyler has turned into a solid basketball player this year. I have always liked him but this year he has played solidly on both sides of the floor. He aint an offensive machine or a guy that flies high and swats shots .. He just makes plays and considering he gets 12-15 minutes a night behind D West what more could you ask your backup PF to do? He still needs a left hand though lol. Maybe one day.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Roy's postgame comments struck me as interesting as well. He usually doesn't come off as a "**** the world, don't ask me for ****" dude. Much more a "everything you get, you gotta work hard for it" fella. He exuded a very grounded pride and had a sense of transparency with his comments. His coaches and teammates have created a sense in him that he can accomplish what this team needs as long as they push him along. It really is mental with him. As much as we talk about Lance making it because of Bird, Vogel, Kellogg supervision, the same can be said of Roy, perhaps to an even larger extent.

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    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Orlando's shot is so pure we all knew his fade away contested three was going in. Dudes going to be a real strong player. JJ Reddick like I think..
    I live near Santa Barbara and had the pleasure of seeing Orlando in over a dozen games over the years. I was completely flummoxed by how he looked in the Summer League (and in his brief NBA minutes before his trip to the D-League) - he was taking some pretty bad shots and even the good shots weren't going in. And while I know UCSB isn't exactly a basketball powerhouse (and it's college besides), Orlando holds just about every scoring record there is over there while shooting a good percentage - and as has been mentioned, that shot is pure. I knew he was going to turn it around eventually (I remember seeing pacers4ever beating that drum a lot early on - I think he's the only other person around here who saw Orlando play in college). In another season or two Orlando could be what we hoped Green would be, but with better defensive awareness and general basketball IQ.

    Happy for the kid.
    Last edited by gummy; 02-07-2013 at 03:22 AM.
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

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    Lifelong Pacer Fan. PGisthefuture's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    I'm sold on Orlando, he's quickly becoming one of my favorites. I know he hasn't shown anything spectacular yet, but I like his game, he can shoot and defend pretty well. I kinda see him being a Brandon Rush type without the off-court issues.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Typical Frank to use the "NBA prefers to screw a small market team over a big market team" to motivate the team.
    I have 2 remarks about that:

    1. Great that the team managed to win all 3 of them against quality teams.

    2. It will be difficult to use that type of calimero motivation when you have home court advantage against a good team in the playoffs and the majority of basketball followers think you are the favorite, not the underdog. Let's see how Vogel does in the playoffs before we call him one of the best Pacers coaches ever.
    Maybe Reggie can convince a couple of his TNT friends to give the Pacers no chance at all to win even with home court advantage and Frank will happily jump on it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Peck, I know I shouldn't "rain on your parade" but Stacy left 2-3 years ago and Brooke took her place...just saying. See how carefully I read and hang on your every word.

    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Well shoot.....


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Okay I knew it was absolute hose crap that there were that many fans in attendance. Check this out.

    http://deadspin.com/5982328/sixers-f...-than-a-dollar

    Sixers Fan Buys 18 Tickets To Tonight’s Game For Less Than A Dollar
    Sean Newell
    The Sixers are five games under .500 and hosting the Indiana Pacers isn't doing the Wells Fargo Center any favors, either. Things are so desperate in Philly that one fan was able to scoop up 18 tickets on stub-hub for $.04. He bought the entire row and told Ryan Petzar he did so because it "seemed like a funny idea, and the extra space to stretch out was a plus."


    The only bummer in this story is that he got nickeled and dimed on those bogus "delivery" and "service" fees. They really ought to make it proportional to the value purchased.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Well shoot.....
    It is a really good post, by the way, and I agree with 99.99% of everything you said. I just wish I was closer so as to be able to attend some games but I'm not and I'm glad I'm here because your weather sucks. I was in Indy 2 weeks ago...4 degrees and -17 wind chill. I got back to Alabama as soon as possible. FYI, I had the boat out and was fishing Wednesday afternoon. 65 degrees !!! Have a good day.

    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

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    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerfan View Post
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    . . . I just want to say it's been a joy to watch them play and grow this season, and no matter how far they get in the playoffs, as long as they keep playing as hard as they have been, I'll be proud of them no matter what.
    THIS!

    Nowadays most people just want a title and they don't care how their team gets one. However it's the journey that matters!

    I like this team way better than the 61 win team. I like all the players, and I like watching them grow as you said. This is a very good team that's just going to get better, and it's fun to watch. What more can you really ask for?

    What if at the all star game George gets with Chris Paul and Howard and convinces them to sign with the Pacers next year via sign and trade? (Pretend it could happen) Some would be
    ecstatic, but not me. I don't like stars getting together to win! We have the kind of team I like! Meaning no punks with attitude, etc. etc. Just a team of good guys working hard to win as a team! My kind of team! (gush, gush, gush!)
    Last edited by Will Galen; 02-07-2013 at 04:44 AM.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by JEM View Post
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    I agree that Tyler has turned into a solid basketball player this year. I have always liked him but this year he has played solidly on both sides of the floor. He aint an offensive machine or a guy that flies high and swats shots .. He just makes plays and considering he gets 12-15 minutes a night behind D West what more could you ask your backup PF to do? He still needs a left hand though lol. Maybe one day.
    His inability to go left is really hampering him. I thought I saw it once or twice early in the season. He's a one trick pony at present (or one-half even). But, yes, his performance of late has been quite good for his standards. I love his passion.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    His inability to go left is really hampering him. I thought I saw it once or twice early in the season. He's a one trick pony at present (or one-half even). But, yes, his performance of late has been quite good for his standards. I love his passion.
    Will Tyler be back next year? Many on here do not think so. His Jeff Foster like effect will surely be missed.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    I live near Santa Barbara and had the pleasure of seeing Orlando in over a dozen games over the years. I was completely flummoxed by how he looked in the Summer League (and in his brief NBA minutes before his trip to the D-League) - he was taking some pretty bad shots and even the good shots weren't going in. And while I know UCSB isn't exactly a basketball powerhouse (and it's college besides), Orlando holds just about every scoring record there is over there while shooting a good percentage - and as has been mentioned, that shot is pure. I knew he was going to turn it around eventually (I remember seeing pacers4ever beating that drum a lot early on - I think he's the only other person around here who saw Orlando play in college). In another season or two Orlando could be what we hoped Green would be, but with better defensive awareness and general basketball IQ.

    Happy for the kid.
    So could he be sort of like James Jones if we'd kept him?
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    I did a little research on whether there were any dates in March they could have made the Pacers vs Bulls game up. My goal was to look for a better scenerio than what the pacers had to go through - 3 in 3. But I am sure the NBA looked at the number of ho,me games this month and decided it was better to do it now and if I were running the NBA, I probably would have done the same thing

    Bulls play at the pacers on Sunday March 3rd. Certainly they could have played the following night in Indy. But that would have given the Bulls three games in a row, plus I don't ever remember teams playing back to back against eachother both at the same location.

    both teams are off the 11th and 12th, but the Bulls are between playing in LA and Sac-town - so that is out.

    The next date is 3/20, but that would have been even worse for the pacers. back to back to back, plus 5 games in 6 days. So that is out


    Those are the only 3 possibilities in March


    April - there is nothing at all. Unless you want either 3 or 4 straight days of games for one or the other

    Botton-line. Don't cancel games in the NBA unles you have to and IMO they didn't need to cancel the game on the 26th.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 02-07-2013 at 09:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I did a little research on whether there were any dates in March they could have made the Pacers vs Bulls game up. My goal was to look for a better scenerio than what the pacers had to go through - 3 in 3. But I am sure the NBA looked at the number of ho,me games this month and decided it was better to do it now and if I were running the NBA, I probably would have done the same thing

    Bulls play at the pacers on Sunday March 3rd. Certainly they could have played the following night in Indy. But that would have given the Bulls three games in a row, plus I don't ever remember teams playing back to back against eachother both at the same location.

    both teams are off the 11th and 12th, but the Bulls are between playing in LA and Sac-town - so that is out.

    The next date is 3/20, but that would have been even worse for the pacers. back to back to back, plus 5 games in 6 days. So that is out


    Those are the only 3 possibilities in March


    April - there is nothing at all. Unless you want either 3 or 4 straight days of games for one or the other

    Botton-line. Don't cancel games in the NBA unles you have to and IMO they didn't need to cancel the game on the 26th.
    Don't ruin our motivation with your facts!
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Good to see PG go right down to the block when Nick Young got matched up on him again. Can't wait to see more of it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Pacers are getting some love from Steven A Smith, he even mentioned Lance.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Pacers are getting some love from Steven A Smith, he even mentioned Lance.
    You can tell that Stephen A has watched us.

    You can tell that Bayless hasn't.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    You can tell that Stephen A has watched us.

    You can tell that Bayless hasn't.
    Does Bayless even watch sports

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  37. #24

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Good to see PG go right down to the block when Nick Young got matched up on him again. Can't wait to see more of it.


    I keep waiting and waiting for Paul to start using his length. Every time he does this I hope he has crossed the line and can do this on a regular basis. With his skill level, he should be basically unstoppable in the post.

  38. #25
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Philadelphia freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    You can tell that Stephen A has watched us.

    You can tell that Bayless hasn't.
    It looks like he saw the Pacers against the Spurs I think.

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