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Thread: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm pretty sure you can find some friends in area 55, just don't tell them who you are though
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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    You were a child when Harbaugh was here. He had lots of fan support.
    and before the Cardiac Colts we were the Jags

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Wells needs to face the facts. The Pacers made their bed by bringing in Artest, SJax, Tinsley, David Harrison, Shawne Williams, Rawle Marshall, etc. They took years to fix the situation embarrassing the franchise time after time and finally blew up the team. Then they bring in Jim O'Brien and his boy Troy Murphy. I'm sorry, but they deserve about a decade of work to rebuild fan support for that...or at least as many years they put this city through misery.
    Oh man... I dunno, I disagree with every bit of this personally. To my knowledge, none of those guys had off the court issues prior to coming here (Williams may have? Not sure...). With that group though, it came down to the fact that we had so much talent on the team anyway and were willing to take on anyone to keep it going. The season after the brawl, when all of those players that were involved were back, I remember the fans supporting those guys. That was still a very good team that could have been a contender. Artest decided that season he didn't want to play here anymore and we benched him until we could find someone who would take him. That didn't take years. Jackson didn't have his issue at the nightclub until the 06-07 season and we traded him before that season was over. Again, that didn't take years. With Tinsley, it was a little more difficult to move him. His troubles started early in 07', but within a year he had played his last game as a Pacer before Bird banned him from the team and eventually bit the financial bullet on his contract. Rawle Marshall didn't spend more than one year with the Pacers. Shawne Williams was gone within a year of getting busted for weed when he was here. David Harrison was released months after he was suspended by the league for substance abuse violations.

    They traded for Troy Murphy because they had to get rid of Stephen Jackson to satisfy fans such as you (not that there's anything wrong with fans like you). They had to take back bad contracts like Murphy and Dunleavy. That's the nature of the beast when it comes to guaranteed contracts. To get rid of Jackson at that point we were going to get fleeced. But the general feeling was that it was time to purge the team of it's troublemakers and move into a rebuilding phase, which takes years in the NBA. Jackson never had any legal problems again and had some of his best seasons after that. It was a bad trade because Bird went out of his way to appease the fan hood when in retrospect he probably should've held on to SJax.

    Here's my question: do you hold the players who took part in The Brawl as being responsible for your viewpoint? Do you think we needed to blow that team up after that season's conclusion? I don't think it's fair at all to hold poor on court play against a team's current success. If that were the case, the Clippers might as well just shut it down. If you want to make the statement that the number of years where we had legal problems needs to be matched by years of bad attendance, ok let's look at that. If we're just talking Artest, SJax, Tinsley, David Harrison, Shawne Williams, and Rawle Marshall (I won't touch the etc...), the last of those players (Harrison and Williams) last appeared in a Pacers jersey on April 16th, 2008.... 4 years, 9 months, and 23 days ago. From the date of The Brawl, November 19th, 2004, to the date we last saw those players was 3 years 4 months and 29 days. The war's over. You can punch out now. Uh, move on. Let it go.

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  6. #154
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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    No, in fact to take my Dad to the last game of the season would have cost $100 per ticket in the nosebleeds, and the nosebleeds at Lucas Oil are a LOT higher and farther away than the ones at BLF, even considering that football is a more spread out game.

    You'd think that was the case, though, the way some people bellyache about Pacers prices that are half what they'd pay to go to the Colts. Look, if you like the NFL better than the NBA just SAY so, don't act like the Pacers are gouging you while it is a bargain for a Colts game.
    Okay....so, you were being sarcastic

    The Pacers went from one extreme ( all the talent in the world but dumb as rocks and a PR Nightmare ) to the other ( Milk drinking and high IQ basketball Team that is actually winning games with defense ) and still no one shows up. Frankly....I'm beginning to think that the people of Indianapolis don't deserve a NBA professional Team.

    NOTE - This is coming from a guy that lives in the SF Bay Area and can only go to a Warriors game where it costs more to park in the Oracle Arena than it does to get a Philly CheeseSteak, fries and a soda at the Concession Stands while paying $115+ per ticket in row 17 in the Lower Bowl section to see the Pacers.
    Last edited by CableKC; 02-07-2013 at 11:34 PM.
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  8. #155

    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Okay....so, you were being sarcastic

    The Pacers went from one extreme ( all the talent in the world but dumb as rocks and a PR Nightmare ) to the other ( Milk drinking and high IQ basketball Team that is actually winning games with defense ) and still no one shows up. Frankly....I'm beginning to think that the people of Indianapolis don't deserve a NBA professional Team.

    NOTE - This is coming from a guy that lives in the SF Bay Area and can only go to a Warriors game where it costs more to park in the Oracle Arena than it does to get a Philly CheeseSteak, fries and a soda at the Concession Stands while paying $115+ per ticket in row 17 in the Lower Bowl section to see the Pacers.
    Nobody deserves an NBA team. That's not something that someone can just deserve.

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    . . . Frankly....I'm beginning to think that the people of Indianapolis don't deserve a NBA professional Team.

    NOTE - This is coming from a guy that lives in the SF Bay Area and can only go to a Warriors game where it costs more to park in the Oracle Arena than it does to get a Philly CheeseSteak, fries and a soda at the Concession Stands while paying $115+ per ticket in row 17 in the Lower Bowl section to see the Pacers.
    It is true that Indy is not a NBA town the way SF/Bay area is. Warrior fan support has been outstanding for years.

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    It would be interesting if for like 2 games, the Pacers just gave out completely free tickets and you could get like a free hot dog or something too. Yeah it's a lot of money down the tube, but it would make a lot of these ******** put up or shut up when it comes to whining about cost

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    I spend $17 on parking and concessions at every game. Tickets are available in all prices ranges.

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    I spend $17 on parking and concessions at every game. Tickets are available in all prices ranges.
    Ok, so you spend $12 on concessions. What is that, a beer and a hotdog?

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    Ok, so you spend $12 on concessions. What is that, a beer and a hotdog?
    A bottomless diet coke and a large popcorn that one of my sons and I share. $6 to park in the garage that's connected to the fieldhouse.

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    A bottomless diet coke and a large popcorn that one of my sons and I share. $6 to park in the garage that's connected to the fieldhouse.
    Do you feel thats reasonable?

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    Do you feel thats reasonable?
    That is highly reasonable to me...not only compared to a Warriors game but a SF Giants game....or ( I'm going to guess ) attending any other Professional Sports game.
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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    It would seem that the general question surrounds interest in attending a Pacers game...compared to other
    indy related sports events.

    Question to all of you that have attended a IU or Butler game....how does the overall cost and overall logistics ( parking, driving to and from, etc. ) to attend a game compare?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    It would seem that the general question surrounds interest in attending a Pacers game...compared to other
    indy related sports events.

    Question to all of you that have attended a IU or Butler game....how does the overall cost and overall logistics ( parking, driving to and from, etc. ) to attend a game compare?
    Parking at Butler is free, tickets cost slightly less in the upper levels, and concessions are cheaper. Nothing surprising. More people should come down to Hinkle too!

  18. #165
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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    I haven't read the entire thread but there are some points I want to make...
    #1 Blackness is a problem but it's not the color of anyone's skin, it's the darkness of the deep, dark hole Pacers basketball fell in. Many people gave up on the team. I think most will come back but it's not just flipping a switch and here they come. The team needs to keep doing what they are doing. As I said, I've been seeing and hearing more interest from corners where it had fallen away. I'm sorry but this organization dug the hole deeper before finally starting to climb out by their fingernails. Before blaming fans management needs to look in the mirror and the Indy sports archives. Then ask themselves if they are being realistic if they expect a turnaround to happen in a couple of seasons. Wanna speed it up... ECF... NBAF... But otherwise just keep building on the play and moving forward.

    #2 Pacers marketing sucks. And do those "Blue Collar Gold Swagger" commercials play anywhere except on FoxSports Indiana? If that's all then maybe they are reinforcing a feel good connection for the fans and team BUT they are also just preaching to the choir. I think the next step in the comeback for fans will be national TV games (barring better marketing from PS&E). Being buried on cable/satellite channel 32673-1 isn't the stuff of stumbling across the team. As the team makes more appearances on national TV (read lower channels) they'll find themselves found by surfers and on the tube in bars more often. That's how you'll start getting some bandwagoners backs. That's how you'll get casual fans to sample the product again. How do you get on national TV? Playoff success... rivalries...

    #3 Scalpers/Brokers... I think teams in other cities have inflated attendance numbers due to scalpers and brokers having tix. They are 'sold' tix, but they aren't necessarily butts in the seats. With the deep, dark hole Pacers basketball fell in IMHO the secondary ticket market dried up. I look for that to pick back up but it'll take 1 and 2 above falling into place.

    #4 Wanna kill any momentum getting fans back? Morph these "Where are the fans" articles into "Could the Pacers Move?" articles to "Simon unsure of Fan's Commitment" to "Possible Destinations for Pacers" articles. Fans aren't going to rally around a team that could move. The more likely they believe a move to be, the more fans will want to emotionally disconnect. It's not going to rally support, it's going to dampen support. OTOH, by all means... Ask fans where they are and tell them what they are missing. Make a point of showing lofty win streaks, division standings, playoff seedings, national recognitions, etc etc etc....
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  20. #166
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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Oops I forgot...
    I also wanted to mention concession prices... They ARE too high.
    I don't understand the defense of 'eat at home'... c'mon...

    First of all, most people do like to snack and have a beer or cola while they watch the game (home or live). So yeah, if you want to get people away from home to watch games the team might consider some 'dollar menu concessions'.

    Also, kids get caught up in the atmosphere and want soda and hotdogs and ice cream... yada yada yada... So it's not necessarily realistic to say "Watch the game... eat and drink at home".

    But again... A "Dollar Menu" could mitigate that.

    I agree as far as meals go... Eat at home. Don't come to the game for the family meal. But have some 1.00 drinks and 1.00 popcorn options. They don't have to be pony keg sized drinks and ginormous popcorn tubs. Maybe some 1.00 dogs... or 1.50... too. Not everything has to be cheap. I'd make beer a little cheaper too.... but that is me...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I've never understood people complaining about concession prices. You can't go a few hours without eating? Eat before the friggin game.
    I mean, there's an Arby's right down the street, across from where you SHOULD park (for $5), and plenty of restaurants around. However, children are impossible to satiate, so I imagine that is where the Common Parent would have that perception. Also, I hadn't thought, until this moment, to sneak my own candies/snacks/pocketsizedflasks into a game. However, it's the popcorn that usually gets my drunken fan-raged self to relax for a moment.

    By the way, I love going to Pacers games, and I only wish I could do it so much more often. I'd rather stand in Area 55 (or G2 Zone) than sit at home, or in my car, watching the game on my laptop. Hell yeh, it's expensive, but there are ways around that. Leave your car at the $5 parking, and walk down the street. Drink at PTO before the game. Grab a bite to eat before the game. There isn't really a way around the gift shop, besides petty theft, pre-game online shopping, and just NOT buying anything at the gift shop. I'm a broke college graduate with two jobs, I would love to get a new hat/shirt/jersey/coat/basketball, but I can't financially support the team any further than attending the game. That's ****ing life.
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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    If the focus was more on basketball (more content, less filler), and if those in attendance could somehow be given access to the outstanding commentary and analysis that both the radio and TV crews provide to their audiences every single game (perhaps over some sort of wifi that could only be accessed by ticketholders via personal headsets, maybe using qr codes or bar codes to access enhanced stats that are somehow more detailed than are available at home), the experience of regular season games could surpass that of the flat screen at home experience.

    Also, as I have stated less succinctly elsewhere, the Pacers should show loyalty to those who have supported them with whatever full price ticket purchases over the years as opposed to disposing of them in favor of casual fans, simply because more eyeballs on the arena ad boards makes more money with an apparently more advertiser friendly demographic in the building.

    The racism issues referred to by earlier are next to non-existent for basketball fans overall, and are virtually a non-factor for the purposes of this discussion. For lots of us, the all time Pacers team would likely be Mark Jackson at the point, Reggie at the 2, one of several outstanding black players at the 3 from both the ABA and NBA, Dale Davis or JO at the 4 (where he actually belonged), and either Darnell Hillman or the only white guy on this list being Rik Smits at the 5.

    Also, other than for the purposes of attracting casual fans, the drafting of "home grown" talent is utterly meaningless by the time you get to the NBA, unless you are trying to attract casual fans who believe that their hero is going to be a hero in the NBA like the once in a generation combination of talents and purely stereotypical Hoosier traits that Larry Bird was. Talent sells tickets and merchandise far more consistently and in larger quantities than "homerism" ever has at the NBA level. Imagine if somehow the Pacers had determined that they absolutely had to go get Gordon Hayward as opposed to drafting the best actual talent in Paul George? What if Donnie Walsh had drafted Alford as the casual fans wanted, despite Reggie being the better professional prospect?

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    In my worthless opinion, it's part of Wells (and Kravitz to a lesser extent) job to get our crowd excited about this team. I know some (or most) will disagree, but you can't talk **** about us for years in the Indy Star and expect us to all of a sudden to love the franchise. They should've been defending us since Day 1. I don't give a **** what our record is, what you think our future holds, or what you think we think.... if you want the fans to love this franchise, you stick by them... just like we did. You have a decent amount of the Indianapolis population reading your newspaper and/or website.... you've been dogging this team since Larry told us it would take some time and patience. The smartest guy in NBA history told us to be patient. Nobody was patient (including the IndyStar writers). Then all of a sudden Larry was right (he was obviously right since Day One... it's clearly obvious... or at least I hope so... because we're a contender). Now everybody is wondering why nobody in Indiana is on the Pacers bandwagon. I have a thought..... nobody who had a reach to the local people gave a **** about the team. It's sad. It's a joke. Yes, it's not all on Kravitz and Wells, but at least some of it is on them. They just talked **** for years. What do they expect the common local fan to think? If they don't watch the game and rely on you to learn about them, what are they going to think? They are going to think we're terrible and Larry Bird has no idea what he's doing.

    Guess what!? Larry Bird just shoved his scrotum down your throat.

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    I ate bbq at some place for $4 before game 6. Unless you have no time I don't see why you would want to eat in the arena anyway.

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    I feel like driving to Indy to go to some games. I don't have any winter clothing though. Also, I'm not sure what driving in the winter is like.

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    I feel like driving to Indy to go to some games. I don't have any winter clothing though. Also, I'm not sure what driving in the winter is like.
    Go in March, Indiana Februaries are unbearable if you've never experienced one.

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    Go in March, Indiana Februaries are unbearable if you've never experienced one.
    I experienced them for the first 8 years of my life. Is winter over in March?

  29. #174
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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by HC View Post
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    We try to make it to a few Reds and Pacers games each year, but it is extremely difficult for us to do so. I don't think it is fair that you seem to want to categorize everyone who isn't as well off financially as using it for an excuse to not attend games because in most cases it is likely a reality as opposed to an excuse.
    How did you get that from what I said? I am saying that it is fine to say you aren't attending games because you can't afford them unless you are going to a similar form of entertainment (another sporting event) that is as expensive or more expensive. Then the reason isn't the cost, it is that it is not your choice of sports entertainment. That's ABSOLUTELY FINE, but in that case b**ching about the cost is not just a false reason (thus, an "excuse"), it ultimately does not help PS&E correct the problem. If they reduce all the prices they have control over and take a beating but people still don't come because they'd rather go see IU or Purdue or the Colts then it has all been a big waste of time.

    I've also said there is a different way to attract fans who can only go to a game or two per year vs. those who can come to multiple games or all games, and that they SHOULD try to do so.

    By the way, I agree that the concession prices are out of whack - especially this year, when beer went up by about 15% I would not be surprised if some of that is the special tax - I'd love to see them publicize the breakdown - but, overall, they are about like airport prices. Captive audience and all that.

    However, as an example, $4.50 for a large popcorn or $7 for an unlimited refill tub is on par with what is charged at a movie theater, so all things are not incomparable.

    I'd love to see something like a prepay discount card - like, you buy a card for $25 that gives you $30 or $35 worth of food (excluding alcohol) and doesn't expire.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Wells: They're having a great season, so where are the fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    I experienced them for the first 8 years of my life. Is winter over in March?
    Hell, the last couple of years winter has practically been over by Valentine's Day.

    Of course, I'm odd. I LOVE winter - it's easier since I work from home and don't have to drive anywhere
    BillS

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