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Thread: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    How about defense?
    2012 4th
    2011 8th
    2010 4th
    2009 6th
    2008 1st
    2007 2nd
    2006 9th
    2005 1st
    2004 2nd
    2003 3rd

    2 of the last 10 NBA champions had top 5 offenses.

    7 of the last 10 NBA champs had top 5 defenses.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Roster wise? Of course not.

    As a philosophy? The pacers are trying to emulate what the pistons did. A least that's how Bird built this team.

    I know this way of dong things. I grew up with it. I've spent most of my life with a front row seat for it. This team is unmistakably trending down that path. This is actually bird's second attempt, but I think he realized he needed more stable players to sustain it.
    That is a very astute observation. Maybe someone with a better memory than mine can figure out how much of the Artest era was Bird inspired.
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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    You're going to have to deal with it, Jay.

    It's always dirty basketball when it's the other guy doing it.

    The most infamous moment was probably when we walked off the court in 1991 instead of congratulating the bulls people still talk about it was the bastion of everything wrong with sportsmanship. Which is hilarious because Larry Bird led the Celtics off the court when we ended their reign in 1988. But since they were the media darling and we were the black hats, that's all anybody will remember.

    Anybody remember LeBron James storming off against Orlando in 2009? That was just LeBron "showing his competitive spirit," though. It couldn't be bad sportsmanship, because it was loveable LeBron, right? LeBron never, ever does anything wrong!

    Danny Granger probably has a dirtier reputation around the NBA than Dwyane Wade, merely because he had the audacity to get confrontational with LeBron.

    Perception is everything.

    None of those things have anything to do with the Pacers. I don't mind if the national/ big market media whines and complains about the Pacers. I hope we give it to them and **** them off. I don't care for either their adoration or criticism. Just don't associate this team with any of that other baggage of somebody else's team. This team has and deserves its own identity. They aren't the "next anything". They're the 2013 Pacers. A group of mentally tough, defensively-committed basketball players focused on a team game with a really solid pick-and-roll scheme to help them finish off close games.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  5. #54
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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    That is a very astute observation. Maybe someone with a better memory than mine can figure out how much of the Artest era was Bird inspired.

    None. Most of those players came in under Walsh/ Isiah.

    If there's a connection, its Isiah.

    Not Bird.

    Carlisle's first season was basically winning a bunch of regular season games with Isiah's roster.

    There's a version of the rumors, you don't have to believe it and certainly it played out differently on the public stage, that Bird was trying to get rid of Artest from the moment he arrived. Remember the Brent Barry rumors were during their first training camp together.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  6. #55
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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    None of those things have anything to do with the Pacers. I don't mind if the national/ big market media whines and complains about the Pacers. I hope we give it to them and **** them off. I don't care for either their adoration or criticism. Just don't associate this team with any of that other baggage of somebody else's team. This team has and deserves its own identity. They aren't the "next anything". They're the 2013 Pacers. A group of mentally tough, defensively-committed basketball players focused on a team game with a really solid pick-and-roll scheme to help them finish off close games.
    That's fine, and you don't have to.

    Obviously since the bad boys thing leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth, the terminology has been changed.

    Since this is a thread about media perception, I was simply explaining why the perception is what it is, and will continue to be.

    Are the OKC Thunder treading on the identity of Jordan's Bulls because they're built the same way? Are the Miami Heat treading on the identity of the Celtics?

    This is all in your head. Nobody is going to detract from the Pacers like that. Nobody is saying the Pacers have to become the Pistons or can't have their own identity, just because they're using a similar formula. They're simply going to treat you like the pistons have been treated for the last several decades,
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-07-2013 at 08:00 PM.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  7. #56
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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    I feel like this guy doesn't have much to compare the team to... instead he just reaches for the next closest thing....

    What he is confused with is that we don't have a superstar and we are still winning games. He doesn't know what to do with that, many people have no clue what real basketball looks like because of the superstars and streetball iso. I mean if you don't have a Lebron/Wade on your team and you are in the top percentile of the league you must be like the bad boys right?

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    None. Most of those players came in under Walsh/ Isiah.

    If there's a connection, its Isiah.

    Not Bird.

    Carlisle's first season was basically winning a bunch of regular season games with Isiah's roster.

    There's a version of the rumors, you don't have to believe it and certainly it played out differently on the public stage, that Bird was trying to get rid of Artest from the moment he arrived. Remember the Brent Barry rumors were during their first training camp together.
    Bird was in Artest's corner until Artest forced his hand. I don't think anybody here besides you would dispute that.

    I won't dispute that Zeke started the construction, but Bird continued it.

    Keep in mind Bird's infamous "milk drinkers" comment.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by tmhall11 View Post
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    What he is confused with is that we don't have a superstar and we are still winning games. He doesn't know what to do with that, many people have no clue what real basketball looks like because of the superstars and streetball iso. I mean if you don't have a Lebron/Wade on your team and you are in the top percentile of the league you must be like the bad boys right?
    ....which is exactly what I said would happen before he ever wrote the article. This wasn't hard to predict.

    The Pacers are winning games without an identifiable media superstar, so they must be doing something "wrong."
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-07-2013 at 07:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    KStat's post have just gained me an extremely large amount of respect for Piston fans. They all can't be bad, eh?

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    This team is more like the Spurs IMO. Also, this small town has Paul George. Don't try to tell me he's not going to be one of the best players in the NBA....
    Paul George might indeed be one of the NBA's best players eventually, but that will be because of his impact on the defensive end. He's more of a Joe Dumars type (no I am not directly comparing them as players) He scored 15-20 points a night and keeps the other team's best scorer down. It's much easier for fans to accept and digest a team winning games when they're led by a dominant big guy (Spurs), or a guy scoring 30 points a game. (Thunder). That's what NBA fans and the NBA media are comfortable with.

    Also FYI, David West has had the dirty player label since his episode with Dirk in the playoffs 5-6 years ago.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-07-2013 at 07:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Danny Granger probably has a dirtier reputation around the NBA than Dwyane Wade, merely because he had the audacity to...
    ...unjustifiably mock Steve Novak.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    I don't understand why you guys are arguing, it's like your arguing for the sake of arguing. It's just a nickname, who cares, as long as Pacers get some attention in the media, a nice change to read something about them, instead of the usual Lakers/Heat stories.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    I think we're tough and physical, but I don't think that makes us anywhere close to the Bad Boys.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    2 championships, 3 Eastern Conference championships, and 5 straight years in the Eastern Conference Finals. Yeah, I can totally see why the Pacers wouldn't want to be compared to that type of success. According to one poster in particular, that's not a sustained level of success. Geez.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    I prefer to not be associated with the Detroit Pistons in any way except dominating them annually in the Central Division. This team is not the bad boys. We are our own idenity.

    I do like how numerous commenttators has stated better "bring your lunchpale vs these boys"

    boys i gotta a feeling if Granger is healthy he will have a solid season. he can play 4th option at times on this team some nights. The current Pacers team resembles nothing to when Jim O'Brien was coaching here. In fact, if anything its become similar to the team Carlise coached here the season of the brawl.

    Tinsley, Miller, Artest, JO, Foster: Jackson, Fred Jones, Anthony Johnson, David Harrison.. anyone else remember the remaining players.

    Right now if i had to choose between starrting 5's.

    Hill, George, Granger, West, Hibbert:

    when playing well tinsley was real good. Hill is much more consistent and better character.

    Paul George is a stud, but hard to not choose REGGIE

    Granger or Artest. the sane artest all day but Granger has been steady and dedicateed to this Franchise. Granger by a landslide.

    West easily over JO. West is the best PF to ever play for this Franchise. both Dale and DWest are BAMF's.

    Hibbert or Foster. tough call. im one who believe Fosters jersey maybe not worthy of a Banner definitely is deserved of significant recognition. Hibbert can definitely be the MAN. Hibbert can eclipse Smits as the best center for this Franchise.

    that 03-04 team was a LEGIT TITLE Contender. its truly Amazing the Pacers have rebounded from oblivion.

    Bird had soo many critics at one time on here and several other sites esp indysstar. I said it elsewhere i will say it again.

    Bird could easily have saved this state the franchise.

  19. #66

    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    How about "BAMFS of the NBA"? (borrowed the term from Seth)

    On the serious side, in terms of perception, Kstat is right. But it doesn't mean I like it simply because it doesn't help the image of the Pacers that are trying so hard to bring back the fans again. The team doesn't commit as many flagrant fouls as the other teams. Heck, this squad is usually the receiving end of those kinds of fouls. And they don't do much cheap shots if there is any. And while the "Bad Boys" of the Pistons were really great players, there is just this baggage associated with them. So maybe while ESPN is at it, maybe they can do a better job in promoting a better image of the Pacers. You know, something like how the media did with Memphis right now.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    How about "BAMFS of the NBA"? (borrowed the term from Seth)

    On the serious side, in terms of perception, Kstat is right. But it doesn't mean I like it simply because it doesn't help the image of the Pacers that are trying so hard to bring back the fans again. The team doesn't commit as many flagrant fouls as the other teams. Heck, this squad is usually the receiving end of those kinds of fouls. And they don't do much cheap shots if there is any. And while the "Bad Boys" of the Pistons were really great players, there is just this baggage associated with them. So maybe while ESPN is at it, maybe they can do a better job in promoting a better image of the Pacers. You know, something like how the media did with Memphis right now.
    You touched on a point that I hadn't thought of. Are Pacer fans concerned that this "comparison" will negatively affect the perception to casual fans and that will thus affect the popularity of the team locally? I could see how that could be a concern after the post-brawl years.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    You touched on a point that I hadn't thought of. Are Pacer fans concerned that this "comparison" will negatively affect the perception to casual fans and that will thus affect the popularity of the team locally? I could see how that could be a concern after the post-brawl years.
    Exactly. The Bad Boys in terms of their great level of defense is a compliment. The Bad Boys in terms of bad reputation is not good for the team. They just got over the "Team of Thugs" image. Casual fans may take things negatively if the Pacers are promoted as being the new Bad Boys. I admire that Pistons team btw, but with a team trying so hard to reach out to turned off fans, you just don't want to be associated with that term.

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  24. #69
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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    We shall see in the playoffs. Starting in round one game one. But I will watch our next game first.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    Exactly. The Bad Boys in terms of their great level of defense is a compliment. The Bad Boys in terms of bad reputation is not good for the team. They just got over the "Team of Thugs" image. Casual fans may take things negatively if the Pacers are promoted as being the new Bad Boys. I admire that Pistons team btw, but with a team trying so hard to reach out to turned off fans, you just don't want to be associated with that term.
    I understand. That's a completely legitimate concern IMO.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Usually I'm not the kind to say I told to so, but.....

    By the way, the bad boys weren't necessarily dirty, ether, aside from laimbeer and mahorn, and we lost mahorn after one year.

    This is the identity that you're going to get, wether you want it or not. You play a defense first philosophy, in a small market, without a media superstar. It goes against conventional logic, so this is the conclusion that the masses will jump to.

    Forgive the lameness of this, but if you're going to get a seat at the table, this is pretty much what you're going to have to get used to. You can either swim against the current, or put on the black hat and use it to your advantage.

    The bad boys wen from also fans to a mini dynasty when isiah said "**** this, if you want us to be the bad guys, we'll show you bad guys." The pistons actually ordered custom made Detroit Raider merchandise, sponsored by Al Davis. Zeke was the first guy to discover a dirty little secret about the NBA. The bad guys can win.

    I believe Reggie miller understood this as well, but his teams never really took that step with him to the dark side.

    I guess my point is, the bad boys philosophy was never really about cheating or hurting people. They did very little of both, despite their reputation. It's about embracing being the party crashers, throwing the middle finger to the league, and being loved more locally by how much every other other place in the league resents you for not being typical.
    I know your a Piston fan but I dont want anything to do with the Franchise in Detroit. Thomas played at Indiana, he wasnt a dirty player he was just really good. Laimbeer was though. If Foster were still playing maybe the comparision would be more accurrate.

    We will earn a seat at the table the way Indiana Basketball does it. Tough hard nosed fundamentally sound basketball.

    With all due respect. In no way do I want this team to be refereneced to anything Pistons.

    Its an insult to what this Franchise has recovered from.

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    I think we're more like the 2004 Pistons than we are the 89/90 Pistons.

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  29. #73
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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    We will earn a seat at the table the way Indiana Basketball does it. Tough hard nosed fundamentally sound basketball.
    I completely agree. This team is basically the anti-thesis of the bad boys. Former Spur George Hill is not a bad boy. Neither is our all-star. Neither is DWest who is Mr. Fundamental...a poor man's Tim Duncan. Then you have that tough guy Hibbert who throws people around. Yeh...bad to the bone.

    Seriously though, this team just plays good fundamental basketball and it's solid with that extra spice of Paul and Lance who may have the talent to get it done.

  30. #74

    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    Thorpe is clueless about the NBA. The fact he considers the Pacers 'dirty' is just another example of how he knows absolutely nothing about the NBA except his clients (who he tries to promote 24/7).

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    Default Re: Oh man, we are getting our media identity: "The New Bad Boys" [ESPN]

    I don't give a rip how the national media or opposing fans label the team. But be prepared for it to really ramp up if the Pacers end up in another knock down drag out playoff series with the Heat.

    I just want the front office to own this style of play and stick with it personnel wise going forward. Walsh failed to do that in the mid-90's and IMO cost the team at least one more trip to the finals and maybe a championship in the strike year or 98 had we got past the Bulls.

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