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Thread: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

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    Default Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    I noticed in another thread that someone had mentioned how Indiana fans don't come out to support the Pacers or the NBA. Here is my take:
    Indiana folks grow up on bball. They know how the game is supposed to be played. The Pacers have done a fantastic job at building a team that the state can be proud of. I REALLY like this team. Great work-ethic. Class individuals on the team. true professionals.
    The "star treatment" for the big name players and teams really turn the average Indiana fan off. Plays that get called one way for player x and another for player y are a big turnoff. The nfl at least has a review of dirty plays (hits) and levy fines against players that don't play "the right way". Does the nba do this? An example would be during the Heat game there was a possession where we had the ball and Battier and West got into a small scrap. The officials made sure it stayed calm. On the ensuing play at the other end you see Chalmers cut baseline and come up the middle behind West and clearly lower his shoulder and crush West from behind. Was a foul called by the baseline official that is supposed to be watching that area? What about the weak side official? He did not call it either. It was clearly an intentional dirty play! Will the NBA fine Chalmers? I bet not. Had this happened to Lebron it would be handled differently I am sure. This is what drives fans from Indiana away from the NBA. I think most fans love these Pacers but can't stand the double standard of the NBA.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    I would also say a big part of it is America just downright likes football more than basketball

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
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    I noticed in another thread that someone had mentioned how Indiana fans don't come out to support the Pacers or the NBA. Here is my take:
    Indiana folks grow up on bball. They know how the game is supposed to be played. The Pacers have done a fantastic job at building a team that the state can be proud of. I REALLY like this team. Great work-ethic. Class individuals on the team. true professionals.
    The "star treatment" for the big name players and teams really turn the average Indiana fan off. Plays that get called one way for player x and another for player y are a big turnoff. The nfl at least has a review of dirty plays (hits) and levy fines against players that don't play "the right way". Does the nba do this? An example would be during the Heat game there was a possession where we had the ball and Battier and West got into a small scrap. The officials made sure it stayed calm. On the ensuing play at the other end you see Chalmers cut baseline and come up the middle behind West and clearly lower his shoulder and crush West from behind. Was a foul called by the baseline official that is supposed to be watching that area? What about the weak side official? He did not call it either. It was clearly an intentional dirty play! Will the NBA fine Chalmers? I bet not. Had this happened to Lebron it would be handled differently I am sure. This is what drives fans from Indiana away from the NBA. I think most fans love these Pacers but can't stand the double standard of the NBA.
    You're wrong.

    The NFL plays one game a week. You can plan on that, discuss it all week, build up the hype for each and every game. Plus tailgating is an event in itself, and there's only 8 home games to do that. And the NBA (or any other sports league) simply can't have an event that reaches the level of the Super Bowl. And the NFL plays in 5 months out of the year, compared to 8 for the NBA. Less is more. The NBA, nor any other pro sports league, can't compete with the NFL.

    As for Indiana, if the Colts hadn't drafted Peyton Manning, they'd be a candidate to move to Los Angeles like Jacksonville is. If the NBA corrected the so-called "double standard" many Pacer fans complain about constantly, it would have ABSOLUTELY NO effect on whether Indiana fans would embrace this team. Just remember, if the Pacers had LeBron James on their team, they'd sell out every night.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    I would also say a big part of it is America just downright likes football more than basketball
    Because football is such a fast paced action packed exciting sport? I bet half of the casual football fans don't even know what a cornerback does in football. To me it's all about the hype.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handoverfist View Post
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    Because football is such a fast paced action packed exciting sport? I bet half of the casual football fans don't even know what a cornerback does in football. To me it's all about the hype.
    Lol thats why I love basketball so much. So fast paced and exciting. After buying various season ticket packages over the past 5 years, I can't even watch the NFL. I find it to be quite slow and bit boring.
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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    The NBA is having a record-setting year while the NFL is concluding a down year....but lets not let a few facts interrupt a great story...

    And I suppose you missed Wades suspension for kicking the dude in the nuts???? Why do Pacer fans seem to embrace the poor little me, victim mentality??? Thankfully, Bird, Vogel and company surely dont.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    The primary reason the NBA can't compete with the excitement of the NFL or even NCAA basketball is the predictability. The structure of a one-and-done postseason makes upsets much more likely and thus, games are much more exciting. This also carries over into the regular season, where each game in the NFL (16) and NCAA bball (30ish) carries significantly more weight than in the NBA (82). This is also compounded by the NBA's tendency to favor star players and large-market teams, making upsets significantly more unlikely.

    How can the NBA improve? Hard cap, less biased officiating, fewer regular season games, and a reduced post-season (best 3-of-5 per series). Of course, none of those things will happen, because the NBA is all about $$$ over integrity. Thanks again, David Stern.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    You're wrong.

    The NFL plays one game a week. You can plan on that, discuss it all week, build up the hype for each and every game. Plus tailgating is an event in itself, and there's only 8 home games to do that. And the NBA (or any other sports league) simply can't have an event that reaches the level of the Super Bowl. And the NFL plays in 5 months out of the year, compared to 8 for the NBA. Less is more. The NBA, nor any other pro sports league, can't compete with the NFL.

    As for Indiana, if the Colts hadn't drafted Peyton Manning, they'd be a candidate to move to Los Angeles like Jacksonville is. If the NBA corrected the so-called "double standard" many Pacer fans complain about constantly, it would have ABSOLUTELY NO effect on whether Indiana fans would embrace this team. Just remember, if the Pacers had LeBron James on their team, they'd sell out every night.

    I agree and don't forget in the NFL every team has a shot at an SB... in the NBA you pretty much can figure who's going to win it all its not really a surprise most of the time.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    As said earlier, the NFL is perfect for television. The stop and go works well for tv breaks and quick analysis. It's one game a week, easy to remember. And the shorter schedule means games count. The Colts were probably not as good as some other teams that missed the playoffs, but there's a penalty for not producing in the regular season. Despite playing Sub-500 ball most of the season I think many people expect the Lakers to make the playoffs and contend. The Heat are winless against the Pacers, Knicks and Bulls but are still the favorites to win the East because they'll "win when it counts." Why even bother watching till playoffs?

    That and, unlike the NFL, a sizable number of college ball fans think the pro game is inferior in quality (rightly or wrongly). Typical view of the NBA is "Iso for 20 seconds then drive with your star."

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    You're wrong.

    The NFL plays one game a week. You can plan on that, discuss it all week, build up the hype for each and every game. Plus tailgating is an event in itself, and there's only 8 home games to do that. And the NBA (or any other sports league) simply can't have an event that reaches the level of the Super Bowl. And the NFL plays in 5 months out of the year, compared to 8 for the NBA. Less is more. The NBA, nor any other pro sports league, can't compete with the NFL.

    As for Indiana, if the Colts hadn't drafted Peyton Manning, they'd be a candidate to move to Los Angeles like Jacksonville is. If the NBA corrected the so-called "double standard" many Pacer fans complain about constantly, it would have ABSOLUTELY NO effect on whether Indiana fans would embrace this team. Just remember, if the Pacers had LeBron James on their team, they'd sell out every night.
    Appreciate you telling me I'm wrong. Lol. Didn't know that you were the old wise man at the top of the mountain. The reasons that I stated are the EXACT reason why most of the people that I know that are HUGE basketball fans enjoy high school and collegiate basketball but do not watch the pros. It is entertainment. Not basketball in its pure sense.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    I completely agree with the best 3 of 5 playoff series. Some of those first round 1 and 8th seed series seem to take forever to wrap up. Back when Jordan, Bird and Magic were playing it seemed like the NBA was more of a legit sport. I think a lot of college basketball fans see it as more of a American Gladiators type of sport. I know where I work that I am the only NBA fan in a sea of crimson red and Colt blue.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handoverfist View Post
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    Because football is such a fast paced action packed exciting sport? I bet half of the casual football fans don't even know what a cornerback does in football. To me it's all about the hype.
    i bet u the casual basketball fan couldnt tell u what SG or SF stand for...... if football is all hype then what is basketball?

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    I think many people in Indiana don't completely trust the NBA. There's a sense with some people that the NBA won't ever "let" a team like the Pacers win a championship, maybe even more so since that ex-ref threatened to write that book a few years ago. You'll never see a Pacers/Warriors Finals. Or Hawks/Grizzlies. There's too much money involved. The NBA always seems to get that sexy matchup in the Finals.

    I'm not saying that I completely buy into this^, only that that's the sense I get from a lot of people. I can certainly understand it, though. After Game 1 of the semis last year I was about to punch something when I realized our entire starting 5 were in foul trouble whilst Miami's "Big Three" had a combined 2 fouls.

    This current Pacer team is definitely under the radar as far as the national media is concerned. But, to be fair, we haven't had that "on the map" moment yet. I always thought Reggie's 25 point 4th quarter was the "moment" that really put that 90s team on the national radar. We were sexy after that. If we want to be respected or noticed, then we need something similar to happen in this year's playoffs. Maybe it will be Paul George dropping 40 at MSG. Or maybe Granger hits a buzzer-beater to beat LeBron and co. Maybe it could even be a brawl or fight.

    On one hand who cares if we're noticed. Maybe being under the radar is a good thing? On the other hand, do we need to be respected or noticed for the NBA to "allow" us to advance?

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    i bet u the casual basketball fan couldnt tell u what SG or SF stand for...... if football is all hype then what is basketball?
    Football has more moving parts, an offensive and defensive unit, special teams, field goal unit ect. Not to mention all the complex plays. I like football and I'm a big Colts fan, but after all these years of watching football I still couldn't tell you what every player does on a football team.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    I think a huge part of it, is the fact that officials dictate the sport.

    Now, officials can make impacts in other sports as well, but none quite like basketball. College basketball is still popular, why? Because officials let people play. There aren't touch fouls in college basketball. David Stern has actively ruined the sport by catering to superstars. I sure as hell wouldn't pay money to go watch LeBron James shoot FTs all day long. Don't get me wrong, LeBron James is one of if not the most athletic person on this planet - he can draw fouls more than most. However, anyone who thinks he or any other superstar doesn't get favorable treatment is blind.

    You don't see that as often in the NFL. A bad call is a bad call, but its not because a certain player is more known than someone else. Same with baseball and hockey. Those games are dictated by the players - the NBA isn't.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Agree with the sentiment on this thread. Football on the face of it is incredibly boring compared to basketball in my view. But the league does a great job making sure that every game counts and maintaing parity and unpredictability. The regular season counting is HUGE and keeps my attention. It is pretty funny that after the Pacers beat the Heat, Lebron basically said in a nice way that the regular season doesn't matter and is just a time for the team to work out its kinks. So in many cases at least half of the NBA regular season isn't that much more important than the NFL preseason.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    I think a huge part of it, is the fact that officials dictate the sport.

    Now, officials can make impacts in other sports as well, but none quite like basketball. College basketball is still popular, why? Because officials let people play. There aren't touch fouls in college basketball. David Stern has actively ruined the sport by catering to superstars. I sure as hell wouldn't pay money to go watch LeBron James shoot FTs all day long. Don't get me wrong, LeBron James is one of if not the most athletic person on this planet - he can draw fouls more than most. However, anyone who thinks he or any other superstar doesn't get favorable treatment is blind.

    You don't see that as often in the NFL. A bad call is a bad call, but its not because a certain player is more known than someone else. Same with baseball and hockey. Those games are dictated by the players - the NBA isn't.
    I think this video is the perfect example of what I was trying to say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjRcTiwVEwo

    How many fans do you think the NBA lost because of this? How many gained? I can't guess how many the NBA lost, but I can promise you no one became a fan of the NBA watching that game.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I agree and don't forget in the NFL every team has a shot at an SB... in the NBA you pretty much can figure who's going to win it all its not really a surprise most of the time.
    You say that, and yet the AFC has been the antithesis of parity. This is the first season since 2002 that someone other than the Colts, Steelers, or Patriots have made the Super Bowl out of that conference. The Colts are basically the NFL's version of the Spurs or Lakers.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
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    As said earlier, the NFL is perfect for television. The stop and go works well for tv breaks and quick analysis. It's one game a week, easy to remember. And the shorter schedule means games count. The Colts were probably not as good as some other teams that missed the playoffs, but there's a penalty for not producing in the regular season. Despite playing Sub-500 ball most of the season I think many people expect the Lakers to make the playoffs and contend. The Heat are winless against the Pacers, Knicks and Bulls but are still the favorites to win the East because they'll "win when it counts." Why even bother watching till playoffs?

    That and, unlike the NFL, a sizable number of college ball fans think the pro game is inferior in quality (rightly or wrongly). Typical view of the NBA is "Iso for 20 seconds then drive with your star."
    This is wrong on so many levels. in the NBA there is absolutely a penalty for not producing in the regular season. Its called a lower seed and thus facing a better team in the playoffs. And if that is the case with the Lakers, where they're squeaking into the playoffs and then contend.....doesn't that make it a better overall playoffs? Meaning the Lakers at a 6 or 7 seed will end up beating the who ever is the 2nd or 3rd seed? In a hard fought series no less? Isn't that the level of competition you want? I'd much rather see a lower seeded team who has caught fire towards the end of the season have a chance to contend rather than watching some team that has played just above average the entire season get blown out in the 1st round.

    Also lets touch on the NFL format, the idea to me that certain teams get a first round bye is in direct contrast to the idea that the NFL has so much Parity. In such a violent and physical game, the best teams get a week off in the tournament. So it sets it up so that the top teams have the best chance of getting to the superbowl. At least in the NBA every team has to win a series to advance.

    In reality the NFL and the NBA has the same amount of Parity year to year. In both leagues franchises can supposedly buy a team. Redskins are always big spenders, just like the Knicks. In both leagues teams who draft really well can have long sustained success.

    As for college basketball. I admit, I love watching March Madness when there is an Indiana based team to watch. But as for the game itself, its full of teams who make mistakes all game long. Its full of teams who play lesser competition to pad their records and player stats. And just like the NBA has a perception of 20 second iso, College has the run out the 35 second shot clock and camp in the lane on defense. The style of play in college basketball is not very innovative.
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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    exactly, in the NFL you can basically predict baring injuries who the final 4 teams will be competing for the superbowl.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    The regular season counting is HUGE and keeps my attention. It is pretty funny that after the Pacers beat the Heat, Lebron basically said in a nice way that the regular season doesn't matter and is just a time for the team to work out its kinks.
    Agreed. I would enjoy the NBA so much more if the regular season was more meaningful. There is no mystique to making the playoffs. How often is there a really "important" regular season game? Why is it you never hear the term "playoff implications" like you do with MLB and the NFL?

    This will never happen, but I would love to see the NBA adopt MLB's new playoff system. The top 3 teams make the playoffs, and the #4 and #5 seeds have a one-game playoff for the rights to advance. You would see far-less superstars sitting late in the season then. Remember how the Celtics were criticized for this late last year?

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    You say that, and yet the AFC has been the antithesis of parity. This is the first season since 2002 that someone other than the Colts, Steelers, or Patriots have made the Super Bowl out of that conference. The Colts are basically the NFL's version of the Spurs or Lakers.
    Yeah, but isn't also true that the NBA has had something like 7 different champions in the last 28 years? It's something close to that, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    . College basketball is still popular, why? Because officials let people play. There aren't touch fouls in college basketball..
    I totally disagree with the mentality that they let them play In college basketball. NCAA officials call 10 times the touch fouls Nba officials do. I don't know what college teams you watch, but that is one of the reasons I enjoy college basketball a whole lot less then Nba, the constant touch fouls that disrupt the flow
    Of the game. I know Iu fans last night can safely say they do not let players play physical defense without a quick whistle.
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handoverfist View Post
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    Football has more moving parts, an offensive and defensive unit, special teams, field goal unit ect. Not to mention all the complex plays. I like football and I'm a big Colts fan, but after all these years of watching football I still couldn't tell you what every player does on a football team.
    so not knowing something makes the sport less rewarding? still dont get how basketball doesnt have as much hype as football..... thats all sports are is hype, thats wat makes them exciting

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    exactly, in the NFL you can basically predict baring injuries who the final 4 teams will be competing for the superbowl.
    And in the NBA you can't???

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