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Thread: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The highlighted part tells me a lot, you believe that "he got hot", by reading your previous posts it looks to me like you don't believe what you are seeing or you don't want to believe it because you still want your guy Danny to be "numero uno", is OK if you and others feel that way.
    Lol you forgot to read this part I assume
    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson
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    But that doesn't mean he can't be Paul's "robin"--a role many (posters and media types alike) have always said Danny was more suited to play.
    But You're wrong. I've never once disputed Paul is now the "star" of the team. It's his team, and we'll only go as far as he leads us.

    I said Paul got hot, because he was having a very inconsistent start to the season and we were being carried by D.West. After the goose egg in GS, everything changed for PG and the Pacers. He "got hot" and has been playing balls to the walls ever since. No complaints here. He is easily more talented and more diverse than Danny ever could be. Doesn't make Danny chopped liver nor does it make him any less important.

    Prior to this home stand, everyone was clamoring for Danny to come back and Lance was seemingly hitting a wall. Now that he's playing great right now, we want to delegate Danny to the bench, and I don't think it's that simple. That's my beef

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Nobody here is calling Danny number one! We are talking about co-existence.
    Who would you start at SF?

    I don't want to hear about cross matching on defense, or how how the offense wouldn't change (which it absolutely would). All I want to knows who starts at the 3 between George and granger, according to you.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    You're making too much of a big deal about this 2-3 position. If this were college it would matter. Why aren't you raising a stink about a natural shooting guard starting as our 1?
    I'm not making a big deal about the positions the thing is that if I have a player that is playing close to a superstar level at one position why do I want to change that? I'm also worry about removing Lance from the starting unit, I want him to develop, he has the potential to be special why change that?

    And another thing nobody else has mention is how many easy shots or layups are West and Paul George getting by playing with Lance? you can't underestimate Lance impact.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    Didn't we just read last night that PG will defend the best opposing wing, and DG will offensively become the 2?
    ???

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    After scoring in single digits for 7 games straight with two of those being great big giant donuts. 0. 4 of those games were losses, sir.

    He is still raw. He can do his "next best thing behind Basketball *****" on the bench.

    And you're kidding, right? Roy has had no open looks in the lane all season. Why? There is no spacing being brought by our wings. West can stay in the high post because he makes those shots at a very high percentage. Roy needs an open lane to become as efficient as he did last year. (Which we had a higher scoring percentage...) smh.
    Sorry but this looks like Lance bashing to me, and I will not stand for it. Let me guess, you never liked Stephenson? Thought he was all hype? Boasted to everyone on PD how he was never going to pan out? Now that he has proven that not only can he play, but play very well, you are secretly rooting against him? You essentially want him to fail just so you can say "i told you so" to us PD nerds. Did I miss anything here?
    David "And One" West

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    Quote Originally Posted by cgg View Post
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    ???
    What that implies is that every team only has one wing capable of doing damage.

    Using miami or NY as an example, you'd be asking Granger to defend smaller, faster, explosive players, guys Lance has shown to be at least adept at defending thus far.

    The matchups work in Indianas favor with George on lebron and lance on wade. Granger on wade, I think would be a bigger problem, which would force vogel to go granger on lebron and George on wade...and then you have last year's series.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 05:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Who would you start at SF?

    I don't want to hear about cross matching on defense, or how how the offense wouldn't change (which it absolutely would). All I want to knows who starts at the 3 between George and granger, according to you.
    Granger.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Lol you forgot to read this part I assume

    But You're wrong. I've never once disputed Paul is now the "star" of the team. It's his team, and we'll only go as far as he leads us.

    I said Paul got hot, because he was having a very inconsistent start to the season and we were being carried by D.West. After the goose egg in GS, everything changed for PG and the Pacers. He "got hot" and has been playing balls to the walls ever since. No complaints here. He is easily more talented and more diverse than Danny ever could be. Doesn't make Danny chopped liver nor does it make him any less important.

    Prior to this home stand, everyone was clamoring for Danny to come back and Lance was seemingly hitting a wall. Now that he's playing great right now, we want to delegate Danny to the bench, and I don't think it's that simple. That's my beef
    Your beef is that you think that if the Pacers move Danny to the bench they are pretty much telling him that he is not good enough, I don't see it that way, I mean if Manu Ginobili was willing to come off the bench why Danny can't do the same?

    Even Amare a player that many believe is a diva is coming off the bench without a problem, he is actually embracing it and because of that his team is better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Granger.
    Then, by definition, granger is "number one," to you. George is the one playing out of position to accommodate Danny, in your scenario, so Danny can play his natural position.

    You can argue that you still think George is the team's best player, but generally you don't ask your undisputed best player to play out of position to accommodate a lesser player.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 05:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Sorry but this looks like Lance bashing to me, and I will not stand for it. Let me guess, you never liked Stephenson? Thought he was all hype? Boasted to everyone on PD how he was never going to pan out? Now that he has proven that not only can he play, but play very well, you are secretly rooting against him? You essentially want him to fail just so you can say "i told you so" to us PD nerds. Did I miss anything here?
    I don't wish anyone on this team failure. I'm sorry but I left my dueling glove in the camper so you'll probably have to stand for it a while longer.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Then, by definition, granger is "number one," to you. George is the one playing out of position to accommodate Danny, in your scenario, so Danny can play his natural position.
    Exactly.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Then, by definition, granger is "number one," to you. George is the one playing out of position to accommodate Danny, in your scenario, so Danny can play his natural position.
    On paper, you have a point guard, shooting guard, small forward, power forward and center. When the lineups come out, you have to put a name somewhere. Those two positions mean squat to me unless we are talking college ball and we're not. They are going to get assigned a specific player on defense and Vogel will draw up an offensive scheme that will suit both of their talents. To tell me that I am picking Danny over Paul RIGHT NOW, at 5:20 PM on February 6th, 2013 is asinine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    On paper, you have a point guard, shooting guard, small forward, power forward and center. When the lineups come out, you have to put a name somewhere. Those two positions mean squat to me unless we are talking college ball and we're not. They are going to get assigned a specific player on defense and Vogel will draw up an offensive scheme that will suit both of their talents. To tell me that I am picking Danny over Paul RIGHT NOW, at 5:20 PM on February 6th, 2013 is asinine.
    ...except, that's precisely what you did when you said you'd start Danny at SF. The are both naturals at the same position, so by rule one of them is going to have to take a back seat to the other if there both going to start.

    You could have said you'd start granger at SG, but you didn't.

    If you're uncomfortable with the "shooting guard" designation, I can replace it for you with "wacky smacky dribbling guy," but that isn't going to change the fact there are serious defensive concerns with him guarding the other "wacky smacky dribbling guys" in the east that you will see in the postseason, such as jr smith. Dwyane wade, and rip Hamilton.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 05:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    His spot was the starting SF. It isn't his spot anymore. And yes, it absolutely matters, especially if Danny has lost a step defensively.

    Using him as a 6th man is probably in the best interest of the team, but I doubt granger would be happy with it.
    I agree completely we are so much better when Lance is on the floor then when he isn't. The offense rating is a pretty dramatic splits. The defense is about the same also.

    I really want Granger off the bench I love our starting 5 as a unit they need to play together as much as possible. Lance may be the 3rd 4th or 5th option in the unit but he is the glue that makes it work IMO. Like David West has said when Lance plays well the Pacers play well.


    I also read an article on Cornrows that makes it sound like that in the near future Lance will be moving to the primary ball handler.

    Walsh
    Donnie Walsh on Lance Stephenson:

    Didn't play a whole lot in his first two years but then this year, in part because of Danny, but he was going to play anyway because we just needed to commit to that. He's gotten time and basically, fit his talent into an NBA game. He's been playing at the two guard position so he's been learning how to come off of screens and he's learning how to play without the ball which will help him for the day when he gets back to playing with the ball.

    He's done very well and actually in the last couple of games (DEN DET) he's done extremely well. In transition, he's like a mini-LeBron in a sense that he really gets the ball down the court quickly and comes at you with a big body, so we get a lot of good out of that. He sees the floor and he's a willing passer so I think he'll continue to get better at that. His shooting has been good as far as, he'll hit the three he can take it to the goal. There are games he goes in and helps us on the boards and defensively he's learning every day but he has a defensive mindset and I think also has the skill set to be an awfully good defender some day. But he's only 22 years old.
    http://www.indycornrows.com/2013/2/5...-brings-to-the


    EDIT:

    http://dimemag.com/2013/01/indianas-...secret-weapon/

    http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.co...acers-success/



    Two great articles how how good we play with Lance. Granger will be a serious help to what we need I just want our starting 5 to still play 25mpg together when he comes back.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 02-06-2013 at 05:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ...except, that's precisely what you did when you said you'd start Danny at SF. The are both naturals at the same position, so by rule one of them is going to have to take a back seat to the other if there both going to start.

    You could have said you'd start granger at SG, but you didn't.
    Because you can put Paul at that "shooting guard" position. It doesn't matter. It will not affect one damn thing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Because you can put Paul at that "shooting guard" position. It doesn't matter. It will not affect one damn thing!
    It affects who's guarding who on defense.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    How the hell can you regress to something that was better?! Our offense scored 5 more ppg last year when compared to this year. And this is AFTER our recent string of offensive outbursts.
    This. This is key. Our offense was better, last season. Granger takes some pressure off of West and PG that Lance just doesn't do.

    And our team should be better defensively with him too.

    Granger is, at absolute worst, our third best player. Yes. We start him.

    edit: It doesn't effect who is guarding who on defense. PG gets put on the best perimeter player on the other team..unless the matchup doesn't work out in either Granger or PG's favor. (Granger is stronger so sometimes we need him on a stronger "best perimeter" player. Or in the case of the Heat, where Granger just can't guard Wade..) And before anyone says "see, that's why you need positions." At the end of the day, Granger and PG are going to be in the game at the same time..at the end of the game..together. And it's likely West and Roy will be in there with him, so they'll have to learn to play together. (And I have a feeling people are fearing something they don't need to fear.)
    Last edited by Sookie; 02-06-2013 at 05:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    What that implies is that every team only has one wing capable of doing damage.

    Using miami or NY as an example, you'd be asking Granger to defend smaller, faster, explosive players, guys Lance has shown to be at least adept at defending thus far.

    The matchups work in Indianas favor with George on lebron and lance on wade. Granger on wade, I think would be a bigger problem, which would force vogel to go granger on lebron and George on wade...and then you have last year's series.
    Except George can win or par his matchup vs. Wade this time around, and David West is far more capable of punishing Miami's smalls. Not to mention having adequate size off the bench now.

    I would take being up 2-1 over Miami again in a heartbeat.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Using him as a 6th man is probably in the best interest of the team, but I doubt granger would be happy with it.
    Granger has shown that he is willing to step back if it's for the best interest of the team.

    However, I prefer Lance Stephenson as the 6th man. He runs a lot more (and our 2nd unit can run unlike the first) and he can both score and distribute.
    Last edited by Nuntius; 02-06-2013 at 06:26 PM. Reason: I wanted to say "step back" but I wrote "step up"
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    Quote Originally Posted by daschysta View Post
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    Except George can win or par his matchup vs. Wade this time around, and David West is far more capable of punishing Miami's smalls. Not to mention having adequate size off the bench now.

    I would take being up 2-1 over Miami again in a heartbeat.
    ...so you're comfortable taking your best defender off the league MVP and letting granger guard him for a full playoff series...

    Even if I agreed that George would be any more effective against Wade (which I don't), the logic here still fails me. You're going to entrust the defensive assignment of the NBA's undisputed best player to the second best defensive small forward on your own team?
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 05:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ...so you're comfortable taking your best defender off the league's best player and letting granger guard him for a full playoff series...

    Even if I agreed that George would be any more effective against Wade (which I dont'), the logic here fails me.
    It's arguable that Danny is a better defensive matchup against Lebron than PG is.

    Not only that, but Lebron can't beat us by himself. If Wade doesn't play like an MVP with him, the Heat won't win. Wade's got a much smaller chance of playing like an MVP with PG on him than with Lance on him. (not because Lance was bad on him...but because Paul George is Paul George.)

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    It's arguable that Danny is a better defensive matchup against Lebron than PG is.
    I'm not sure about that, remind me who was guarding Lebron when he got his career numbers?

    Not only that, but Lebron can't beat us by himself.
    I'm pretty sure I saw him winning one or two games by himself.

    If Wade doesn't play like an MVP with him, the Heat won't win. Wade's got a much smaller chance of playing like an MVP with PG on him than with Lance on him. (not because Lance was bad on him...but because Paul George is Paul George.)
    Lance has done a pretty good job on Wade in this last two games against Miami, what makes you think that he can't do the same thing later?

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    It's arguable that Danny is a better defensive matchup against Lebron than PG is.


    I give up. I have nothing to add to this....I can't even respond with anything substantial. I give up.

    Maybe subconsciously, those three similies are what I believe represents the beginning, middle and end of what would happen to the Pacer fan collective if Vogel announced Granger and not George would be guarding LeBron in a 7 game playoff series.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 05:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Yea, sorry guys but Danny is definitely our starter.

    I love Lance, and am very happy with his progression. Now just imagine what he will be able to do against the second string guards in the league after seeing him toy with DWade and the like the past few weeks!

    I am not saying it's a 100% slam dunk, no questions asked kind of proposition. But Danny Granger is a starter on the Indiana Pacers, that's just common sense.
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    Cool Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    Yea, sorry guys but Danny is definitely our starter.

    I love Lance, and am very happy with his progression. Now just imagine what he will be able to do against the second string guards in the league after seeing him toy with DWade and the like the past few weeks!

    I am not saying it's a 100% slam dunk, no questions asked kind of proposition. But Danny Granger is a starter on the Indiana Pacers, that's just common sense.
    If they move Granger in as a starter immediately, I think the Pacers will slide back to fourth or fifth in the East. Granger's replacement is already here, let him play SF. I don't want to see Lance lose any minutes with the first team. Granger can't or won't defend his position and he slides back a little more every year. Put him on the bench and bring him in and perhaps even give him some PF minutes. ...

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