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Thread: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    I wouldn't put too much stock in Vogel's words that Danny will start. Frank said last year that DC would return to the starting unit once he was healthy.....
    David "And One" West

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Maybe he will. I just question the logic of displacing your best player to accommodate your former best player. And no, starting george at the two is not a negligible difference.
    It's all about role, George can be fine at the two as long as we put the ball in his hands and Danny takes on more of a "finisher" role, which he is better suited at anyhow.

    I'm of the mind that George didn't break out because he was at the 3, he broke out because he was humiliated by his scoreless game and consciously made the effort to assert himself. George's bread and butter is his jumper, which should be even easier to get off vs. Shooting guards. George will still get minutes at the 3 too, when Granger is on the bench. Paul will be fine.

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    George can be fine at the two. But he's very good at the 3. Again, you should be maximizing his effectiveness, not dialing him down a notch in favor of a guy with bad knees. He's not as good defensivey or offensively at SG.

    The reality is both George and granger are naturals at the same position. Are you really in favor of telling the better player to play out of position?

    This also hurts David West, because with another gunner out there, his touches get diminished.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 04:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    I wouldn't put too much stock in Vogel's words that Danny will start. Frank said last year that DC would return to the starting unit once he was healthy.....
    Has it really come down to comparing Danny's worth to the team with what DC's was?

    While the notion of considering utilizing Danny in a "Manu" type of 6th man role isn't out of the question, this board definitely has a lot of "what have you done for me lately".

    We aren't exactly talking about some scrub here ppl, we're talking about our reigning leading scorer from the past 5 seasons.

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    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    This.

    The pacers are more threatening with lance starting than with Danny. Better chemistry, better ball movement, better defense.

    Granger provides a volume shooter, but I don't think they need that in their starting five. The best defensive unit should start.
    It depends on how Granger looks, it isn't a given that Granger loses a step, he's expected back at 100% once he's in game shape, his injury wasn't structural, and the injections should actually strengthen the joint. It certainly wasn't the case that Danny hurt us defensively last season, we allowed 3.6 fewer points per 48 minutes that Danny was on the floor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    We aren't exactly talking about some scrub here ppl, we're talking about our reigning leading scorer from the past 5 seasons.
    Are you arguing that granger is still a better player right now than George? If not, why is nostalgia dictating who gets to start at SF?

    I'm not saying Danny is a defensive liability, at least not yet, but George is on another planet compared to last season, and a big reason is his switch to guarding bigger, more ball dominant small forwards.

    He can go back to SG and still be very good, but again if he's your best player, why is he the one sacrificing? This isn't about being a good teammate, it's about what helps the pacers win more games. The better George is, the better the pacers are.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 04:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    I'm not threatened by Lance's progression at all. Nor did I imply it. I just feel if you want to keep him while not ruining chemistry you'd move him to where we needed him the most. In our poor excuse for a bench. If he makes West so much better just think what he can do for Tyler. We're fixing numerous problems here with this scenario.

    Your perception of Danny is basically making him look like a rich man's Gerald Green.
    Last edited by duke dynamite; 02-06-2013 at 04:31 PM. Reason: for Tyler, not to Tyler. Last year that would make sense.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Are you arguing that granger is still a better player right now than George? If not, why is nostalgia dictating who gets to start at SF?
    It's not a matter of Danny being better than Paul at a particular position, as much as it's Danny being better than Lance. Within this offense, there isn't that much of a difference between a SF and SG with the exception being what side of the floor they start on when on offense.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    His spot was the starting SF. It isn't his spot anymore. And yes, it absolutely matters, especially if Danny has lost a step defensively.

    Using him as a 6th man is probably in the best interest of the team, but I doubt granger would be happy with it.
    I'm just going to highlight this so some people in this forum get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    It's not a matter of Danny being better than Paul at a particular position, as much as it's Danny being better than Lance. Within this offense, there isn't that much of a difference between a SF and SG with the exception being what side of the floor they start on when on offense.
    He isn't better than lance as a defender or passer. Even in his prime, granger was not as good at the things Stephenson does best right now.

    He's a better small forward than lance, but lance doesn't play small forward.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Didn't we just read last night that PG will defend the best opposing wing, and DG will offensively become the 2?

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Does it matter who starts? Paul plays a ton of minutes. So unless we plan on only playing Danny when Paul is out, then Paul and Danny will have to figure out how to coexist.
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    They're not going to change how PG gets the ball regardless if he's listed as the 2 or the 3 and/or regardless if he's playing next to Lance or Danny.

    That's a non-point, whichever angle your coming from.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    It's not a matter of Danny being better than Paul at a particular position, as much as it's Danny being better than Lance. Within this offense, there isn't that much of a difference between a SF and SG with the exception being what side of the floor they start on when on offense.
    Is he? better scorer? yes, better at everything else? I don't think so.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I'm not threatened by Lance's progression at all. Nor did I imply it. I just feel if you want to keep him while not ruining chemistry you'd move him to where we needed him the most. In our poor excuse for a bench. If he makes West so much better just think what he can do to Tyler. We're fixing numerous problems here with this scenario.

    Your perception of Danny is basically making him look like a rich man's Gerald Green.
    Lance does make Tyler better. I have witnessed this. However I would rather have David West at his best. Granger is not a good passer. Take out Lance, and our ball movement goes down the drain
    David "And One" West

  25. #41

    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    These are good problems to have. Can we all agree on that?
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    They're not going to change how PG gets the ball regardless if he's listed as the 2 or the 3 and/or regardless if he's playing next to Lance or Danny.

    That's a non-point, whichever angle your coming from.
    It makes a difference on defense, if granger is going to start guarding smaller, faster 2-guards whenever Indiana plays a team with a stud SF. Granger is not guarding Dwyane Wade or JR Smith anytime soon.

    Also, someone is going to get fewer touches with Danny in the starting 5. Most likely, it'll be David West.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Lance does make Tyler better. I have witnessed this. However I would rather have David West at his best. Granger is not a good passer. Take out Lance, and our ball movement goes down the drain
    Why are we so worried about David West when we have a 7' 2" center who can't score at the rim even if he sold his soul to the devil?

    Having Danny and Paul George out together is going to pull the defense away from the lane and Hibbert will get more open looks close to the basket. Just like last season. The defenses are clogging the lane with Lance out top because he just stands from time to time. His effectiveness has been off of transition and the pick and roll.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It makes a difference on defense, if granger is going to start guarding smaller, faster 2-guards whenever Indiana plays a team with a stud SF. Granger is not guarding Dwyane Wade or JR Smith anytime soon.
    Well Danny isn't going to only play when PG goes to the bench, so that problem is going to be there regardless.

    I expect Lance to get similiar minutes even if he does go to the bench, as he should. You just bump OJ's minutes and/or DJ/Young's.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    He isn't better than lance as a defender or passer. Even in his prime, granger was not as good at the things Stephenson does best right now.

    He's a better small forward than lance, but lance doesn't play small forward.
    No he is not a better passer than Lance. I don't know why you seem to think Lance is a great defender, he is decent, probably even above average--but Danny isn't a scrub defensively either. Given his knee "injury" i'd say they're about a wash.

    Danny is a better shooter, scorer than what Lance is. In fact, with Lance as our starter, we're one of the worst offensive teams in the league (29th in PPG--92.8). With Danny as our starter last year, we were 13th in PPG--97.7.

    As I've said before, the idea of bringing Danny off the bench shouldn't be totally looked down upon, but to think it should be a foregone conclusion because Lance is having a decent year is kind of crazy to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Well Danny isn't going to only play when PG goes to the bench, so that problem is going to be there regardless.
    My guess is Danny affords George a little more rest, so that's 14-15 minutes per game he can play while George is resting, leaving only 7-8 minutes where they have to co-exist, which you can coincide with David west's time on the bench.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Is he? better scorer? yes, better at everything else? I don't think so.
    A healthy Danny Granger? Yes he is.....right now

    A decent half of a season doesn't trump 5-6 years of very good production.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    You seem threatened by Lance emerging as a star player. Not sure why you are so convinced that Lance needs to go back to the bench. I worry about David West if Lance is benched. Stephenson seems to know exactly where David needs the ball.
    Some people are threatened by the Lance and Paul George success, some still believe that Danny is better than Paul George when in reality Danny in his best years was not even as good as PG.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    No he is not a better passer than Lance. I don't know why you seem to think Lance is a great defender, he is decent, probably even above average--but Danny isn't a scrub defensively either. Given his knee "injury" i'd say they're about a wash.

    Danny is a better shooter, scorer than what Lance is. In fact, with Lance as our starter, we're one of the worst offensive teams in the league (29th in PPG--92.8). With Danny as our starter last year, we were 13th in PPG--97.7.

    As I've said before, the idea of bringing Danny off the bench shouldn't be totally looked down upon, but to think it should be a foregone conclusion because Lance is having a decent year is kind of crazy to me.
    Lance disrupts the opponents' offense because of his speed and haphazard jukes and flails. Effective, yes. It just breaks my neck watching him.

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    Default Re: Maybe Granger should go to the bench when healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It makes a difference on defense, if granger is going to start guarding smaller, faster 2-guards whenever Indiana plays a team with a stud SF. Granger is not guarding Dwyane Wade or JR Smith anytime soon.

    Also, someone is going to get fewer touches with Danny in the starting 5. Most likely, it'll be David West.
    Nah, I think it'll be Roy and Hill. Moreso probably Hill though.

    And Danny did a more than decent job on D-Wade in the playoffs last year

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