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Thread: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Again the Spurs got Duncan because Robinson broke his foot and missed like 70 games. And they suffered several other key injuries is my memory as well.
    If that is "tanking" in your mind so be it, but when your best player (by a large margin on the Spurs at the time) misses pretty much the entire season to a serious injury it's tough for me to endorse that as a good way to build a team.
    Well that is what you believe, I believe that they didn't play Robinson at the end because there was not point to win more games and move out of the Duncan draft, that is tanking to me, Miami did the same with Wade.

    For example the Pacers had a chance to tank few years ago but Larry decided to bring Flip the "we are pushing for the playoffs" Murry and started to win meaningless games, the Pacers also had a chance to sit Danny and tank couple years ago but instead they decided to play the guy with a knee and ankle injury(stupid).

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Nothing really earth shattering. He just said what we already know: he's massively underpaid for what he contributes on the floor, and he will never get aid what he's worth under the current CBA.
    I dont think too many tears are going to be shed about that.
    Teachers and many other professions are neither.
    Lebron needs to start his one man league.
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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    I dont think too many tears are going to be shed about that.
    Teachers and many other professions are neither.
    Lebron needs to start his one man league.
    ...damn him for living in a capitalist country. You'd think we lived in a supply-and-demand economy, or something...

    Nobody is shedding tears for LeBron for being worth $100 million when he could easily be worth $200 million. It's just stating a very ironic fact.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 02:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    The pistons did it long before the pacers did, and were the dominant team out of the east over the last decade. It changed nothing. So...no.
    The 2004+ Pistons were a nice team, but they were hardly the first team to be built the way they were built. Hell, I'd argue they built the same way the 90's Pacers team was built... via some savvy drafting, some savvy trades, no real "superstar" even if Reggie was probly a bigger star than anyone on those Detroit teams, emphasis on defense and rebounding and team play. The Pistons had a better defense while the Pacers had a better offense. The Pacers made 16 playoff appearances in 17 years, reached the conference finals 6 times in 10 years, I could go on. I know a Piston fan won't agree with this, but the Pacers had a more impressive stretch than the 2000s Pistons did ---- MINUS 1 championship. It was the one thing that Pacer team never achieved BUT... the Pistons never had to face Michael Jordan in his prime, as did the Pacers repeatedly. Pistons fans have selective memory about time before their run. The Pacers were an amazing team for a VERY long time before the Brawl.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 02-06-2013 at 02:15 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I know a Piston fan won't agree with this, but the Pacers had a more impressive stretch than the 2000s Pistons did ---- MINUS 1 championship. It was the one thing that Pacer team never achieved BUT... the Pistons never faced Michael Jordan in his prime, as did the Pacers repeatedly.
    On the flipside, I think the Pistons are the greatest franchise in NBA history- MINUS 15 Celtics and Lakers championships, of course....

    Selective logic is awesome.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    No I don't believe that at all. The Clippers, Wizards, Grizzlies, Bulls from 98-2008, Warriors, etc. have made plenty of terrible picks in the top 10 as well. It's not as simple as just getting in the top 10, you must scout. You can get talent late in the draft. The Spurs are proof of this.

    Ok so you pick in the top 10 for 15 straight years, you might hit pay dirt once on a guy who can lead you to a title. IMO that is not the most efficient way to create a winning team. You can be a middle of the road team and make the jump to a contender a lot easier IMO.

    You leave Kwame Brown alone.

    Jordan did a GREAT job.

    I will never forget that pic of him leaving in his convertabile looking made as hell when he got fired.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    The whole MJ kept the Pacers out of the finals thing is a little overblown, we only faced him once in the playoffs.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The whole MJ kept the Pacers out of the finals thing is a little overblown, we only faced him once in the playoffs.
    I've given up pointing that out. I think it makes people feel better to believe they were a budding dynasty cursed by fate, rather than the ringless Ewing
    Knicks....

    Yes, I believe that their best team from that era did lose to Jordan's Bulls, but that 1998 Bulls team was by no means unbeatable.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 02:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    We faced him in our best year.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    On the flipside, I think the Pistons are the greatest franchise in NBA history- MINUS 15 Celtics and Lakers championships, of course....

    Selective logic is awesome.
    Because that's completely relevant to what I said. There's not much difference between the runs that Indy and Detroit made, my point still stands. They were perennial conference finals and Finals participants, the Pistons just got over the hump 1 year. I still believe that the competition during Indy's run was much higher than during Detroits championship season. The peak was in the late 90s when Chicago and NY and the Pacers were all duking it out every year. I don't think the level of play in the early 2000s was near as good. To Pistons fans though, the 2004 team was the greatest team in history.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    We faced him in our best year.
    ..and lost to his worst team. And you had game seven in total control until they pretty much beat you on willpower. That's not a case for impressively losing to an unbeatable force.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    And I seriously doubt the 2004 Pistons would have beaten Michael Jordans "worst team" in '98.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    They were perennial conference finals and Finals participants, the Pistons just got over the hump 1 year. I still believe that the competition during Indy's run was much higher than during Detroits championship season. The peak was in the late 90s when Chicago and NY and the Pacers were all duking it out every year. I don't think the level of play in the early 2000s was near as good. To Pistons fans though, the 2004 team was the greatest team in history.
    1. The 90's Knicks were hardly a great team. Fond memories do not make them a great foe.
    2. Had the Pistons lost to the Lakers in the 2004 finals, nobody would have blamed them, and I could have played the "Shaq and Kobe were a perfect 4-0 in the finals, we would have won in year 199X." card. Shoulda coulda woulda.
    3. Three of Indiana's six conference title appearance came with Jordan out of the NBA, in a decidedly weakened eastern conference. None of those years did the eventual champion come out of the east. And one of those years you dropped the series to the #8 seed in a decidedly weakened eastern conference.

    I know the 90's have a great nostalgic feel to everyone here, as it was an era where the pacers were relevant for nearly an entire decade. But we don't need to keep piling on the roses on what was a very respectable run of success.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 02:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Either way, my point still stands --- the Pacers of the 90s were built of the same stuff that the 2000s Pistons were. It was a similar model. The Pistons weren't the "first to do it." And the 90s Pacers were likely not the first team to do it, either. It just goes to show that smaller markets have to do things in a different way.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    I don't entirely disagree, but the Pacers post-larry brown were an offensive team. They had some grinders, but won games on the offensive end. Style was very different.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Sure. This thread though is about building a team. The Pistons were built with savvy drafting and trades. Hard-nosed defense. Team play, rebounding. Good coaching. Relatively low star power. Same as the 90s Pacers. Hell, both teams had the same coach for large stretches of their runs. That's all I'm saying is that the Pacers did this before the Pistons did, the Pistons just got 2 games farther (Indy lost 4-2 to LA). It was an extremely similar run. And I'd say that the current version of the Pacers is really doing the exact same thing again as that 90's team. We're built very similarly.... but I'd say this time around we're using savvy drafting way more than the first time.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    I we're going to strip this down to a bare-bones "no superstar" thread, then yes, they fall into the same category. But the 00's Pistons and this current pacer team have much more in common than that.

    I'd add that three of your four best players this season were acquired via trade or free agency.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I we're going to strip this down to a bare-bones "no superstar" thread, then yes, they fall into the same category. But the 00's Pistons and this current pacer team have much more in common than that.

    I'd add that three of your four best players this season were acquired via trade or free agency.
    Are we counting Lance in that group? Lance, West, and Hill? I would count Lance as a guy we drafted.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Are we counting Lance in that group? Lance, West, and Hill? I would count Lance as a guy we drafted.
    Yeah, I'd count Lance. But he isn't one of your core 4 this season. He's been yo-yoed in and out of the starting lineup, though admittedly he's having a very fine year regardless.

    George-drafted
    Hill-trade
    Hibbert-trade
    West-FA

    Yes, a lot of the support guys were draft picks, but this team is not anywhere near where they are now without those four guys carrying them.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Yeah, I'd count Lance. But he isn't one of your core 4 this season.

    George-drafted
    Hill-trade
    Hibbert-trade
    West-FA
    I would count Hibbert as drafted, he was always the guy we wanted at that slot.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    That pick was unofficially ours when it was made. I see it as a draft as well. It's not like Toronto wanted him, picked him, then later decided to trade him. We had already agreed to that trade in principle prior to the draft and they picked Roy because we told them to.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I would count Hibbert as drafted, he was always the guy we wanted at that slot.
    I don't buy it for a second. He wasn't even the highest pick you traded for. Brandon Rush was.

    I believe Larry wanted him from the start, but no way was he piking him 11th. He was a high risk/reward guy that paid off.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Yeah, I'd count Lance. But he isn't one of your core 4 this season. He's been yo-yoed in and out of the starting lineup, though admittedly he's having a very fine year regardless.

    George-drafted
    Hill-trade
    Hibbert-trade
    West-FA

    Yes, a lot of the support guys were draft picks, but this team is not anywhere near where they are now without those four guys carrying them.
    He's started 41 of 47 games played this year. Your "yo-yoed" comment made me look that up for some reason.
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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I don't buy it for a second. He wasn't even the highest pick you traded for. Brandon Rush was.

    I believe Larry wanted him from the start, but no way was he piking him 11th. He was a high risk/reward guy that paid off.
    What I'm saying is we told Toronto to pick Hibbert. Like Hicks said, it's not like we said hey we want Hibbert since you guys drafted him, we said draft Hibbert.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    That pick was unofficially ours when it was made. I see it as a draft as well. It's not like Toronto wanted him, picked him, then later decided to trade him. We had already agreed to that trade in principle prior to the draft and they picked Roy because we told them to.
    My point is, you told them to draft Brandon Rush first. He was higher on Bird's priority list. Had Toronto turned down the deal, Indiana likely would have taken Rush 11th.

    If Bird believed he was worth taking at #11, he would have seen to it that Hibbert would be taken 13th and not 17th, regardless of where he thought Hibbert would actually land. That's definitely a trade acquisition in my book.

    Likewise, I count Kobe as a trade acquisition, rather than a Laker draft pick.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-06-2013 at 02:48 PM.

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