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Thread: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

  1. #26

    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    You hire a Champion to build a Championship team.
    Someone named Michael Jordan begs to differ.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    I think that we are an example of catching lightning in a bottle with our current roster...beamed for OKC really... Both are possible ways to build a contender, but neither are guaranteed... I don't think one way is more effective/efficient than the other... Outside of the big markets, you have to do one or the other b/c you are unable to buy the top talent... The Pacers were built similarly in the 90/2000's which lead to a contending team nearly annually...

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    That wouldn't even supersede it....the 2004 finals was a smash hit in the ratings primarily because the pistons were embarrassing the lakers. Then the lakers broke up, and there was no super-team left to hate, and fans went back to rooting for the new, fresh media superstars, and we were just in the way if wade, lebron, Howard, etc.
    It was a bit of that and the fact that Detroit's market is larger, the dispersement of Detroit fans because of the economic decline in the American auto industries, the media today is currently saturated, and many other variables.

    And do you think that the Heat is not a super-team that could topple and draw new viewers in? I mean the Dallas series had a 10.6 to the Thunder series of 10.2. And while they weren't an 11.4, I think the Heat is more established as a superteam. I think it can happen. Most likely not with the Pacers because of market size. That and the Pistons were a dynasty in the NBA and in the last 20 years.

    But there could be a team that can break that 11.4 mark. I agree that the Pacers are most likely not that. But that doesn't mean that they can't be successful in the NBA (which I know you are not arguing). Their mold is a viable one. And it is a lesson that you can find success in this league through more ways than tanking.

    Tanking does have a better success rate I would argue though. Tanking or bottoming out, lottery picks are the best way to win. But it does not come risk free.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    And here is a list of "the Pistons way":

    Billups (3rd pick overall)

    Hamilton (7th pick overall)

    Ben Wallace (undrafted)

    Prince (23rd overall)

    Rasheed Wallace (4th pick overall)

    OK so out of the 5 Pistons starters 3 were high draft picks, they also had Darko (2nd pick overall), imagine if instead of Darko they got either Wade, Melo or Bosh? call me crazy but the "Pistons way" is harder to pull off than the "OKC way".

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    And here is a list of "the Pistons way":

    Billups (3rd pick overall)

    Hamilton (7th pick overall)

    Ben Wallace (undrafted)

    Prince (23rd overall)

    Rasheed Wallace (4th pick overall)

    OK so out of the 5 Pistons starters 3 were high draft picks, they also had Darko (2nd pick overall), imagine if instead of Darko they got either Wade, Melo or Bosh? call me crazy but the "Pistons way" is harder to pull off than the "OKC way".

    What finding former lottery picks that either burned their bridges, never matured, or were given away for trash...and then having them gel together and become what they were drafted to do...together...united. Yeah that seems a lot harder than tanking and waiting on your superstars to grow.

  7. #31
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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    I don't think there's a Pacers way of building.

    What Larry did is extremely difficult. Having tons of patience, drafting guys that are winners/solid basketball players/good people/team-oriented players, and building a team that is sufficient in many categories (e.g. length, size, shooting, speed, iq) but weak in few with only one top-10 draft pick, and that is a #10 pick, is nearly impossible.

    Who here thought we could do this with a #10, #13, #17, #17 and #40 while signing a #18 and trading for a #26? Maybe Warren Buffett reads PD, but I doubt there are many others.

    *edit*- Vogel and staff deserve a lot of credit too. I knew we had playoff caliber talent even when O'Brien was here, but it still takes a good staff to recognize how to effectively use players, and an even better staff to make a team that is greater than the sum of its parts.
    Last edited by imawhat; 02-06-2013 at 11:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Paul Georges don't grow on trees.

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  9. #33

    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Nothing really earth shattering. He just said what we already know: he's massively underpaid for what he contributes on the floor, and he will never get aid what he's worth under the current CBA.
    I pretty much agree with both you and LeBron. However, that's one of the drawbacks of having the protection of a union to represent you. The Union by charter has to do what's best for the entire membership and free lance(scabs) don't get to be a part of the group. If the top line players start being payed for their worth to the team, the CBA is history or the non superstar players pay is going waaay down.
    Last edited by Cousy47; 02-06-2013 at 11:01 AM.

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  11. #34

    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    We still have a weak bench :<, besides the center position, and a hit/miss Hans, the rest are lacking. We'll see what happens if/when Lance moves to the 6th man role.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    This man has been successful in every level of basketball he's ever been a part of.


    And you couldn't dream up a visual who would look less likely to do so.
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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    We still have a weak bench :<, besides the center position, and a hit/miss Hans, the rest are lacking. We'll see what happens if/when Lance moves to the 6th man role.
    And as Miami proved last year, your bench is pretty much irrelevant in the playoffs. All you need is for one guy to get kind of hot in each playoff game off the bench and you're fine as long as your starting 5 can pull the weight they are supposed to.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I'm pretty sure Kstats would be singing a different song if instead of Darko Detroit got Melo, Bosh or Wade, yes tanking is always going to be the way to go and if you have an smart FO that knows wtf they are doing is even better.

    And yes the Pacers didn't "tank" but had they won more games we would be talking about Cole Aldrich or Xavier Henry as part of our core, thanks god for Utah too.
    And the last team to win a championship that tank (other then OKC) is who. Teams that that tank continue to tank. They are the bottom feeders. Detroit put that team together thru trades and FA. Cleveland tanked and had the best player in the last decade for 7 years and only won a ecf champion. It's not about tanking, It's about running a FO.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    And as Miami proved last year, your bench is pretty much irrelevant in the playoffs. All you need is for one guy to get kind of hot in each playoff game off the bench and you're fine as long as your starting 5 can pull the weight they are supposed to.
    Which is assuming that Vogel abandons everything he's shown in the past as far as playing the entire bench as a unit. I hope he does but I want to see it to believe it. If we severely cut down the rotation and always intermingle the starters with the bench when we are forced to go that route, I'll be much more inclined to believe we'd have a shot against Miami.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    I hope nobody follows the "Pacers way", that was painful to watch, the "Pacers way" is also hard to pull it off, the Bucks are trying to do the same thing and they are just mediocre and The Bobcats tried and failed.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    And the last team to win a championship that tank (other then OKC) is who. Teams that that tank continue to tank. They are the bottom feeders. Detroit put that team together thru trades and FA. Cleveland tanked and had the best player in the last decade for 7 years and only won a ecf champion. It's not about tanking, It's about running a FO.
    Miami?

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Which is assuming that Vogel abandons everything he's shown in the past as far as playing the entire bench as a unit. I hope he does but I want to see it to believe it. If we severely cut down the rotation and always intermingle the starters with the bench when we are forced to go that route, I'll be much more inclined to believe we'd have a shot against Miami.
    Vogel has already done this. When was the last time we had 5 bench players out there together with no starter that wasn't garbage time? I honestly can't think of it. One of Paul or Lance has been out there at all times since end of December I'd say.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Miami?
    When did Miami tank?

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    And the last team to win a championship that tank (other then OKC) is who. Teams that that tank continue to tank. They are the bottom feeders. Detroit put that team together thru trades and FA. Cleveland tanked and had the best player in the last decade for 7 years and only won a ecf champion. It's not about tanking, It's about running a FO.
    OKC has not won a title.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I hope nobody follows the "Pacers way", that was painful to watch, the "Pacers way" is also hard to pull it off, the Bucks are trying to do the same thing and they are just mediocre and The Bobcats tried and failed.
    The OKC way is just as hard. The fact is that it's hard to build a contending team, no matter how you try to do it.

    For every OKC, there's 20 years of the Clippers wallowing away with their countless lottery picks. Each has it's benefits, each has it's drawbacks.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    In all honesty, we are spoiled, we went through about 4 or 5 years of being terrible and we act like we wandered the desert for years. Compared to Clippers fans, Cavs fans, Grizzlies fans, Charlotte fans, Orlando fans, I could go on, but I'll stop, the point is we're really actually pretty lucky. We had 15+ years straight of playoff caliber teams following by 5 or so years of being down. That's not too bad at all in the sports world.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    When did Miami tank?
    When they got Wade? and the year before they drafted Butler at 10th and they used him to get Shaq.

    They also tanked to get Rose and ended up with Beasley.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    When they got Wade? and the year before they drafted Butler at 10th and they used him to get Shaq.

    They also tanked to get Rose and ended up with Beasley.
    The Rose/Beasley year is the only year I would say they tanked. The other two years they were just bad. There is a difference.

    And it's funny that the year they tanked was the year they got a low value asset.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The Rose/Beasley year is the only year I would say they tanked. The other two years they were just bad. There is a difference.

    And it's funny that the year they tanked was the year they got a low value asset.
    I believe everybody was tanking for Lebron that year, they also knew that prospects like Melo, Wade and others were going to be there, many called that draft "one of the best drafts ever".

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I believe everybody was tanking for Lebron that year, they also knew that prospects like Melo, Wade and others were going to be there, many called that draft "one of the best drafts ever".
    Some definitely tanked, Miami was pretty bad though and still didn't get there. They did OK though haha, Wade was my favorite guy in that draft.

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    Default Re: Could there be a Pacers way of building...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    OKC has not won a title.
    I didn't say they did win the title.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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