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Thread: Pacers Salary Situation

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    Default Pacers Salary Situation

    The trade deadline is fast approaching and naturally everyone has their fantasy GM hats on. So here is the Pacers current salary situation.



    The current salary cap is $58,044,000. Next season it will most likely be right around $60,000,000.

    After this season the team is about $12 million under the cap with 8 players under contract. You know they'll pick up Lance's option which takes up just under $1 million. So that give us 9 guys under contract and about $11 million in cap space. It's basically a certainty that they won't make the $4.2 million qualifying offer for Tyler Hansbrough.

    I would have to think they're going to attempt to re-sign David West. At what cost do you do that though, and would West give them a discount or sign a backloaded contract? If they do retain West, they're really going to have to try to move a big contract like Roy or Danny this summer (assuming no trades are made this month). I was under the impression that we were in a little more friendly cap position after this season than we actually are. The nice thing is that in 2 years, the 2014-15 season, we'll have 3/5 of our starting lineup under contract at only about $27 million.

    EDIT:

    I hadn't remembered to think about the luxury tax.

    This season the Luxury Tax threshold is $70 million. If you project that out for next season, the luxury tax next season should be around $72 million. That would help tremendously in regards to re-signing West and still having some space to fill out the roster.
    Last edited by SMosley21; 02-04-2013 at 05:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    I think there'll be more wriggle room as the team can exceed the salary cap as long as it's below the luxury tax line.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Indy View Post
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    I think there'll be more wriggle room as the team can exceed the salary cap as long as it's below the luxury tax line.
    Good call. I hadn't considered the luxury tax.
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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    I didn't know Hibbert had a player option for his fourth year.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by boombaby1987 View Post
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    I didn't know Hibbert had a player option for his fourth year.
    Neither did I until I looked it up. At least I can hold out hope that he loses his mind and doesn't exercise that option so we can get out of the deal a year sooner.
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    Default

    Keep in mind that the Pacers have no Bird rights as far as West is concerned. They can only make an offer that fits under the salary cap. They could go over to sign other players afterwards, but not to sign West.
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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by OakMoses View Post
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    Keep in mind that the Pacers have no Bird rights as far as West is concerned. They can only make an offer that fits under the salary cap. They could go over to sign other players afterwards, but not to sign West.
    I'm confused, why don't that have Bird rights to West?

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by OakMoses View Post
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    Keep in mind that the Pacers have no Bird rights as far as West is concerned. They can only make an offer that fits under the salary cap. They could go over to sign other players afterwards, but not to sign West.
    I believe we can use the "Early Bird" exception or the "Non-Bird" exception. My interpretation - we can exceed the cap to sign him.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_sal...Bird_exception

    Larry Bird exceptionPerhaps the most well-known of the NBA's salary cap exceptions, it is so named because the Boston Celtics were the first team permitted to exceed the salary cap to re-sign one of their own players (in that case, Larry Bird). Free agents who qualify for this exception are called "qualifying veteran free agents" or "Bird Free Agents" in the CBA, and this exception falls under the auspices of the Veteran Free Agent exception. In essence, the Larry Bird exception allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own free agents, at an amount up to the maximum salary. To qualify as a Bird free agent, a player must have played three seasons without being waived or changing teams as a free agent. Players claimed after being amnestied have their Bird rights transferred to their new team. Other players claimed off waivers are not eligible for the full Bird exception, but may qualify for the early Bird exception. Prior to an arbitrator ruling in June 2012, all players that were waived and changed teams lost their Bird rights.[14][15] This means a player can obtain "Bird rights" by playing under three one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any combination thereof. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Bird exception to re-sign him. Under the 2011 CBA, Bird-exception contracts can be up to five years in length, down from six under the 2005 CBA.[5]

    [edit] Early Bird exceptionThis is the lesser form of the Larry Bird Exception. Free agents who qualify for this exception are called "early qualifying veteran free agents," and qualify after playing two seasons with the same team. Players that are traded or claimed off waivers have their Bird rights transferred to their new team. Prior to an arbitrator ruling in June 2012, all players that were waived and changed teams lost their Bird rights.[14][15] Using this exception, a team can re-sign its own free agent for either 175% of his salary the previous season, or the NBA's average salary, whichever is greater. Early Bird contracts must be for at least two seasons, but can last no longer than four seasons. If a team agrees to a trade that would make a player lose his Early Bird Rights, he has the power to veto the trade.

    A much-publicized example for this was Devean George, who vetoed his inclusion into a larger trade during the 200708 season that would have sent him from the Dallas Mavericks to the New Jersey Nets.

    [edit] Non-Bird exceptionFree Agents who qualify for this exception are called "non-qualifying free agents" in the CBA, meaning they do not qualify under either the Larry Bird Exception or the Early Bird Exception. Under this exception, teams can re-sign a player to a contract beginning at either 120% of his salary for the previous season, or 120% of the league's minimum salary, whichever amount is higher. Contracts signed under the Non-Bird exception can last up to four years (down from six under the 2005 CBA).

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    IF we decide to let Tyler walk, which I think we probably will, that's a 4 million salary hold we can use to re-sign West. If we can sign him starting around 12 million, we can replace Tyler either with a draft choice or a rookie from some other team or maybe from the D league. If Plumlee and OJ can replace Tyler and Green's minutes, we keep Young and attempt to trade/draft a backup point guard. If Green grows up for next season, we move Lance to the backup point, and we're set for a shortened rotation. Hill, George, Granger, West and Hibbert. Lance, Green, Johnson, Plumlee and Ian. Young and our next rookie or 2 as needed. Sound right?

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    IF we decide to let Tyler walk, which I think we probably will, that's a 4 million salary hold we can use to re-sign West. If we can sign him starting around 12 million, we can replace Tyler either with a draft choice or a rookie from some other team or maybe from the D league. If Plumlee and OJ can replace Tyler and Green's minutes, we keep Young and attempt to trade/draft a backup point guard. If Green grows up for next season, we move Lance to the backup point, and we're set for a shortened rotation. Hill, George, Granger, West and Hibbert. Lance, Green, Johnson, Plumlee and Ian. Young and our next rookie or 2 as needed. Sound right?
    I wasn't aware that we could use Hansbrough's cap hold to re-sign West. That scenario sounds pretty reasonable.
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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Pretty sure we can go over cap to re-sign West. He's just not a restricted FA.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by OakMoses View Post
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    Keep in mind that the Pacers have no Bird rights as far as West is concerned.
    Gonna need a link on that one. Why wouldn't they have Bird rights?

    EDIT: Thanks to Purdue for the link. The situation is pretty clear; David West has Bird rights. We can go over the cap to sign him.
    Last edited by Anthem; 02-04-2013 at 09:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Gonna need a link on that one. Why wouldn't they have Bird rights?

    EDIT: Thanks to Purdue for the link. The situation is pretty clear; David West has Bird rights. We can go over the cap to sign him.
    David West signed here as a free agent 2 years ago. For bird rights the player has to be with the team for 3 years

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Gonna need a link on that one. Why wouldn't they have Bird rights?

    EDIT: Thanks to Purdue for the link. The situation is pretty clear; David West has Bird rights. We can go over the cap to sign him.
    Quote Originally Posted by RLeWorm View Post
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    David West signed here as a free agent 2 years ago. For bird rights the player has to be with the team for 3 years
    He has early bird rights, but we won't use them because we can't afford to pay him what the exception mandates.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by RLeWorm View Post
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    David West signed here as a free agent 2 years ago. For bird rights the player has to be with the team for 3 years
    You're right, I'm an idiot. But the Early Bird won't be a problem, unless anybody's expecting West to command more than 175% of his current salary.
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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    He has early bird rights, but we won't use them because we can't afford to pay him what the exception mandates.
    Of course, we'll use them. The exception doesn't mandate anything, in terms of amount. It must be at least 2-year deal, and it may not be greater than 175% of his current salary.

    It is the only way the Pacers can re-sign West.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    We've got to re-sign West, that much is for sure.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Of course, we'll use them. The exception doesn't mandate anything, in terms of amount. It must be at least 2-year deal, and it may not be greater than 175% of his current salary.

    It is the only way the Pacers can re-sign West.
    Actually, I believe the rule is "either 175% of the players previous salary or the league average."

    I read that as saying the Pacers would have to pay David $35M over 2 years in order to use the exception/go over the cap to re-sign.

    However, I'd be interested to know if the 175% is a mandate (Like the NFL franchise tag) or a maximum allowed.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    Actually, I believe the rule is "either 175% of the players previous salary or the league average."

    I read that as saying the Pacers would have to pay David $35M over 2 years in order to use the exception/go over the cap to re-sign.

    However, I'd be interested to know if the 175% is a mandate (Like the NFL franchise tag) or a maximum allowed.
    I was unsure about that as well, but that isn't very restrictive unless a player explodes past his current deal in 2 years, which doesn't happen very often.

    The wording in the wiki says it's the greater of the league average or 175%. So for David West it would be 17.5 million starting salary; nothing more or less. It says nothing about anything below being allowed. I couldn't find a better source for the info, and right now all we have is the wording of the wiki quote.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 02-04-2013 at 10:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    Actually, I believe the rule is "either 175% of the players previous salary or the league average."

    I read that as saying the Pacers would have to pay David $35M over 2 years in order to use the exception/go over the cap to re-sign.

    However, I'd be interested to know if the 175% is a mandate (Like the NFL franchise tag) or a maximum allowed.
    Those are maximum numbers. The Pacers can resign West for less, assuming West agrees. They do not have to spend $35M over two years. They could, but they don't have to.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
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    Actually, I believe the rule is "either 175% of the players previous salary or the league average."

    I read that as saying the Pacers would have to pay David $35M over 2 years in order to use the exception/go over the cap to re-sign.

    However, I'd be interested to know if the 175% is a mandate (Like the NFL franchise tag) or a maximum allowed.
    No it's not a mandate it's just what we can go up to to pay him. If David was only worth 4m next year we could pay him that. This rule really only come into play for guys who are 2nd rd picks and signed two year deals think Jeremy Lin. He was granted early bird rights so he could make league average off his rookie deal with the Knicks.



    So say we sign Delonte West to a 2 year deal tomorrow at 4m a year after he expires we can pay him 7ish million per year once he expires. (Just an example we would be stupid to do that but we could also re-sign him for 2m or whatever that player is worth at the time. But if delonte became worth 10m we wouldn't have his bird rights at that price and other teams would get him because we dont have the cap room to sign him.

    OJ Mayo for example could become worth more than his EBR price (I really doubt that happens but it could I think he opts out anyway and he wont have any bird rights this summer)

    It's just a tool that helps a player get more money than he would without any bird rights from his original team. But it still puts his team at a disadvantage to resign the player if he will be worth of a lot more. So many players would prefer the 3rd year to get the full bird rights. But in the case of guys like AK47 and Dwest who both signed early bird 2 year deals it isn't a big deal due to the fact they will never make 175% of 10m again most likely due to the fact they are getting older and they just arent max level guys.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 02-04-2013 at 10:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    I was unsure about that as well, but that isn't very restrictive unless a player explodes past his current deal in 2 years, which doesn't happen very often.

    The wording in the wiki says it's the greater of the league average or 175%. So for David West it would be 17.5 million starting salary; nothing more or less. It says nothing about anything below being allowed. I couldn't find a better source for the info, and right now all we have is the wording of the wiki quote.
    Per the CBA the early bird exception is for a minimum of 2 years and can be "for up to the greater of" 175% of the prior year salary or 108% of the average league salary.

    Do not use wiki, instead google and use the official NBA cba. So, the Pacers would have the right to sign West in a contract of 2 years or more with his first year salary starting anywhere up to 17.5M. Of course, we will not pay him that much. And our concern is still that someone may be able within their own team salary structure to pay him more than we are wiling to go.
    Last edited by beast23; 02-04-2013 at 11:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Per the CBA the early bird exception is for a minimum of 2 years and can be "for up to the greater of" 175% of the prior year salary or 108% of the average league salary.

    Do not use wiki, instead google and use the official NBA cba. So, the Pacers would have the right to sign West in a contract of 2 years or more with his first year salary starting anywhere up to 17.5M. Of course, we will not pay him that much. And our concern is still that someone may be able within their own team salary structure to pay him more than we are wiling to go.
    Thanks for the information, but know that I searched for a different source before I even began posting. Search results of anything bird right related are heavily weighted toward the lin/billups ruling last season until you include "cba."

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    lets get a deal for Lebron going

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    Default Re: Pacers Salary Situation

    While I'm certainly not opposed to dealing West, if we were to re-sign him to a reasonable contract (nothing more than $10mil) he does have the kind of game that should allow him to play at a high level for quite a few more seasons.

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