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Thread: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by bshall View Post
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    If they keep the 3 divisions, the Celtics, Knicks and Nets are already in the same division. It kinda feels like the AL East to me where the big boys beat up on each other all year. Right now the Heat would win their division easily every year but I doubt they'll be on top forever especially when LeBron goes back to Cleveland in a couple years.
    Maybe I'm not getting this, I'm seeing it as 8 teams in the playoffs now which allows smaller markets teams to make the playoffs which is a great achievement. Vs 6 teams in the playoffs, which less small market teams and the Nets, Knicks, Celtics beating each other out, thus keeping one out of the playoffs, which ultimately loses millions of revenue. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I may not be making the connection.
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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Maybe I'm not getting this, I'm seeing it as 8 teams in the playoffs now which allows smaller markets teams to make the playoffs which is a great achievement. Vs 6 teams in the playoffs, which less small market teams and the Nets, Knicks, Celtics beating each other out, thus keeping one out of the playoffs, which ultimately loses millions of revenue. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I may not be making the connection.
    Ok my point is there needs to be more emphasis on winning your division. I would do that by keeping the divisions the same and going to an MLB style playoff. So you have 3 division winners and then 2 wild card teams that have to come from different divisions. This would put more emphasis on the regular season match-ups between the Knicks, Nets and Celtics....or in any division for that matter.

    If your goal is to have as many small market teams in the playoffs as possible then I agree the 8 team system is the way to go. I just want more of a reason to watch a Pacers-Bucks game in the middle of the season.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    I don't think how many teams make the playoffs is that big of a deal. Could it be cut back to 6, sure, but I think the length of the season puts less prestige on making the playoffs than how many teams make the playoffs.

    What I would like to see with the schedule is more emphasis on divisions, and decreasing the length of the first round and maybe the second round.

    I don't think anyone should play any team that is not in their division more than twice, while still playing teams within one's division 4 times. I would also like to see a decrease in how many times teams play inter-conference games, but that isn't as high on my list. I think this would do more towards making winning the division a big deal, without using a gimmicky playoff structure.

    The playoffs need to be shortened. The first round should not be more than 5 games, maybe it should only be 3 games. More than any other round, this round would benefit from the less is more mentality, in most cases the better team will still win, but occasionally you might actually get an upset of the number 1 or 2 team without an injury being involved. The second round I would be fine with it being either 5 or 7, no strong opinion. Then the final two rounds should stay with 7 as every team at that point should be of high quality, and every game should be exciting.
    Last edited by Eleazar; 02-03-2013 at 03:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by bshall View Post
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    Ok my point is there needs to be more emphasis on winning your division. I would do that by keeping the divisions the same and going to an MLB style playoff. So you have 3 division winners and then 2 wild card teams that have to come from different divisions. This would put more emphasis on the regular season match-ups between the Knicks, Nets and Celtics....or in any division for that matter.

    If your goal is to have as many small market teams in the playoffs as possible then I agree the 8 team system is the way to go. I just want more of a reason to watch a Pacers-Bucks game in the middle of the season.
    Make a new division and have 4. Have the 3rd best team in each division play against the runner up of their own division in a best of 3, then the winner plays the winner of their own division in a best of 3. This would give a mini tourney for each division. There would be a division champion and a division tourney champion. The last 4 teams representing each division plays best of 5. Then the eastern championship game is best of 7.

    Virtually adding 4 teams to playoffs and giving a second award. Even tho there is 4 teams added the series is reduced, thus keeping same time frame.
    .

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    There is far too much money involved to cut the playoffs back from the best of 7 we have now. I really liked the 66 game schedule last year, but not the back to back to backs. To watch live, I prefer BB. To watch on TV, I prefer football cause it's longer and you can get better naps. I haven't watched a full NFL game in years.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
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    I noticed in another thread that someone had mentioned how Indiana fans don't come out to support the Pacers or the NBA. Here is my take:
    Indiana folks grow up on bball. They know how the game is supposed to be played. The Pacers have done a fantastic job at building a team that the state can be proud of. I REALLY like this team. Great work-ethic. Class individuals on the team. true professionals.
    The "star treatment" for the big name players and teams really turn the average Indiana fan off. Plays that get called one way for player x and another for player y are a big turnoff. The nfl at least has a review of dirty plays (hits) and levy fines against players that don't play "the right way". Does the nba do this? An example would be during the Heat game there was a possession where we had the ball and Battier and West got into a small scrap. The officials made sure it stayed calm. On the ensuing play at the other end you see Chalmers cut baseline and come up the middle behind West and clearly lower his shoulder and crush West from behind. Was a foul called by the baseline official that is supposed to be watching that area? What about the weak side official? He did not call it either. It was clearly an intentional dirty play! Will the NBA fine Chalmers? I bet not. Had this happened to Lebron it would be handled differently I am sure. This is what drives fans from Indiana away from the NBA. I think most fans love these Pacers but can't stand the double standard of the NBA.
    lame. Talking about shifting blame...

    "we don't support the pacers because we're too good for the morally inferior NBA." ***** Christ...

    If you don't want to support the pacer or the NBA in general, that's cool. A lot of people don't. But please spare me the moral platitudes, as if the NFL is a bastion of fairness and free of corruption.

    let me simplify it for you. Do you know why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL? They play football and the NBA plays basketball.
    Last edited by Kstat; 02-03-2013 at 04:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    I certainly know I hear far more people talking about the NCAA Tournament than I do the NBA Playoffs on any given year.
    In the USA, maybe. But that's not the case everywhere else. A lot of people around the world watch the NBA playoffs. Only a small amount of people watch March Madness outside of the US (and maybe Canada, I dunno).
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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    I have to say that I dislike the NBA as a league as well. I enjoy some teams and players, of course, but I can see why several people could be annoyed by the star treatment.

    Still, that's not a reason to not support the Pacers. You don't have to love the league that your team plays in. You simply have to love your team.

    Personally, I would never start watching the NBA if it wasn't for the Pacers. I'd just try to keep tabs with some of the players I like (Valanciunas, Shved, Baynes etc.) and that would be it.
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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
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    That and, unlike the NFL, a sizable number of college ball fans think the pro game is inferior in quality (rightly or wrongly). Typical view of the NBA is "Iso for 20 seconds then drive with your star."
    I always get disappointed when I hear this, as most college basketball is pass around the 3 point line, unless you have an up and coming NBA star like Carmelo or Derrick Rose. People say college ball has more defense, but scores are just low, because most players are bad at shooting compared to nba players. It's the same thing people said that Kentucky or some top college team could beat the Wizards or Bobcats if they played a game, which is very untrue.

    As a non-american, I am confused as to why football is so loved, it's a very slow paced game, and for me, it seems most of the plays are just run through the middle. I think it's more due to the the games always are usually once a week, and many people can get together and enjoy the time, but as a sport itself I think it is inferior to Basketball and Soccer.

    If anything at least it's better than baseball ZzzZzz.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    In the USA, maybe. But that's not the case everywhere else. A lot of people around the world watch the NBA playoffs. Only a small amount of people watch March Madness outside of the US (and maybe Canada, I dunno).
    I lived in Australia from '02 to '08. They have no idea what March Madness is there.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    exactly, in the NFL you can basically predict baring injuries who the final 4 teams will be competing for the superbowl.
    I disagree. In the NBA you usually can. Did you predict the Ravens as one of your 4 teams in the superbowl this year?
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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    I disagree. In the NBA you usually can. Did you predict the Ravens as one of your 4 teams in the superbowl this year?
    This year it will shock most people if the Finals is anything but Heat or Bulls vs Thunder or Spurs.

    Hopefully the Pacers are the ones doing the shocking, of course.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    lame. Talking about shifting blame...

    "we don't support the pacers because we're too good for the morally inferior NBA." ***** Christ...

    If you don't want to support the pacer or the NBA in general, that's cool. A lot of people don't. But please spare me the moral platitudes, as if the NFL is a bastion of fairness and free of corruption.
    Exactly. I've seen this said a few times on this board recently, that Indiana fans know more about basketball so they're less inclined to like the NBA. That's just flat out false. I lived in Indiana for most of my life. Fans in Indiana are no better or smarter than in Chicago or LA or New York or wherever. It has no bearing on the support of the Pacers or interest in the NBA.

    It's an embarrassing, masturbatory fantasy.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    that Indiana fans know more about basketball so they're less inclined to like the NBA. That's just flat out false.
    I don't think there's any question that Indiana fans are more passionate about high school and college hoops than they are NBA hoops. I'm talking in comparision to other states here.

    I don't know if it's because we think we know more about basketball or not. I'm not sure what the reason is, but I do believe it is the case.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    The rhythm of the NFL is conducive to cultivating a habit. The vast majority of games are on Sunday, at predictable times across the country, that people actually schedule their Sunday activities to include. It is an excuse to get in one more leisure break in during a weekend of "honey-do list" projects, and a weekly reason for friends and families to get together to watch a sport that moves at a slow enough pace with simple enough rules that even casual fans get enjoyment out of it even if scores are not high, as long as the games are close.

    Football is also a simple enough game with built in breaks between each play that permit endless replays and analysis from the TV commentators which serves to educate fans about the subtle details they might otherwise miss, where basketball moves way too quickly for any but the most educated color guys to provide accurate analysis during the flow of the game, leaving casual fans to concentrate on highlights and high scores and blocks to determine whether a given game was "good" or entertaining.

    Football is also able to be more easily followed by those who partake in alcoholic beverages, again due to its pacing, predictability, and relative simplicity, and use games as a reason to party on a weekly basis in a socially accepted and embraced fashion. It is no accident that beer commercials are a huge portion of the advertising revenue taken in by the NFL.

    Until other sports can somehow figure out how to replicate these repetitive and rhythmic cycles which provide repetitive positive reinforcement both during games and over the course of an entire season, I think the NFL will continue to rule the American sports scene.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    I disagree. In the NBA you usually can. Did you predict the Ravens as one of your 4 teams in the superbowl this year?
    We're arguing about parity, right? This all depends on your definition of parity. If parity means "more teams have better chances to win a championship," than yes, the NFL has more parity than the NBA. Because the NFL's playoff system is, by necessity, in a 1-and-done format. Upsets can happen way more easily. The Ravens would almost certainly not have beaten New England in a best-of-7 series. Which is not necessarily a bad thing; after all, it is an integral part of the appeal of March Madness. However, if parity means "the difference between the best and worst teams is less," than I would say no, the NFL doesn't have much more parity than the NBA. The Rams have as little chance to beat the Patriots in a series as the Bobcats do against the Heat. It all depends on what "parity" is.
    Last edited by iogyhufi; 02-03-2013 at 11:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by iogyhufi View Post
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    We're arguing about parity, right? This all depends on your definition of parity. If parity means "more teams have better chances to win a championship," than yes, the NFL has more parity than the NBA. Because the NFL's playoff system is, by necessity, in a 1-and-done format. Upsets can happen way more easily. The Ravens would almost certainly not have beaten New England in a best-of-7 series. Which is not necessarily a bad thing; after all, it is an integral part of the appeal of March Madness. However, if parity means "the difference between the best and worst teams is less," than I would say no, the NFL doesn't have much more parity than the NBA. The Rams have as little chance to beat the Patriots in a series as the Bobcats do against the Heat. It all depends on what "parity" is.
    for the record, the Rams beat and tied the 49ers this year

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    A couple of things.

    1. I am of the opinion that the vast majority of people do not like college basketball, even here in the state of Indiana. No what they like is big time Division 1 high production high skilled nba feeder system. How many people do you think outside of students, alumni & family/friends/significant others will brave the cold February 9th temperature to drive to Greencastle Indiana to watch Depaw take on Oberlin? The next time someone tells you they like college basketball just go ahead and laugh inside knowing that for all of their disdain for the NBA all they really watch is a show not unlike what we watch in the NBA. Take away the big nice arena's some of them have, yes even old arena's at D 1 schools are better than the gyms that the D 3 guys play with, the pep bands, the bright lights of TV, the A list talent who is playing basketball on a scholarship and just make them watch one single D 3 game where a lot of the players are actual student athletes and their heads will explode.

    2. The NBA will not change formats when Silver comes into office because the market for the NBA, right or wrong, is not the casual Indiana Hoosier. The foreign market is thriving with Asia being the next brave frontier of marketing and even though the Europeans will vehemently deny it marketing stars in Europe works just as well there as it does here. I've had this debate before with a lot of people and Roaming Gnome gave me a great answer about this, the NBA markets for city's like Birmingham Alabama (as an example) a fairly decent size metro area that will never have an NBA team. Do you think the people of Birmingham care about the team play of the Philadelphia 76ers or LeBron James? If you don't like using Birmingham go to Kansas City or Portland Maine (or anywhere for that matter).

    No none of us like it here in Indiana and you can make a real argument that the NBA made a mistake in starting the marketing like that anyway but it is what it is and the genie is out of the bottle.

    3. The real complaint, well one of many actually, that I have with the NBA in general is that they have done a very poor job over the years in trying to educate that public on the actual game itself. I know they don't have complete content control of TNT or ESPN or even back when NBC was doing it (which btw was far superior to ABC/ESPN) but maybe every now and then they could have brought in a retired NBA referee or coach or even old star player and have them go over plays with replays from different angles showing how there are actual audibles in basketball on both the defensive and offensive end. You know instead of telling us every week what Jay Z song player A listens to or what kind of ride he has or yes even over some of the helping build a home stuff. The major misconception of the public is that the ball is given to player A he dribbles it till he drives and shoots or passes or loses it for some reason and we go the other way. The NFL has made major advances with women in particular in the 80's and on up by going over each and every play showing diagrams of what should have happened, what did happen and what could have happened.

    I guarantee you that a lot of the people in the stands have no idea how a pick and roll works or how valuable a quick wing defender can be or how by moving without the ball led to an open corner three or a layup. I know that during a live game there is no way to show this but the before and after game shows should. Even TNT does a really poor job of this if you think about it. They will show you the drive that Russell Westbrook made for a layup but they won't bother to tell you about the pick Kendrick Perkins set on his defender to give him a clear path.

    Okay that's enough of my ravings.


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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    and even though the Europeans will vehemently deny it marketing stars in Europe works just as well there as it does here.
    That depends. It works on casuals but it doesn't work on EL lovers. It also works on Europeans that prefer the NBA over the EL.

    Dirk Nowitzki works on everyone, though
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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    March Madness takes the less-is-more approach, which is the biggest reason why it's such a huge annual sporting event. I certainly know I hear far more people talking about the NCAA Tournament than I do the NBA Playoffs on any given year.
    How do we really judge the popularity of a sporting event? I say TV ratings is the best way, because that counts the casual and dei-hard fans. And if you look at TV ratings only, the NCAA tournament and the NBA playoffs arre about even in ratings - although it is difficult to equatre certain games. Not to suggest it is even close in a city like Indianapolis. Take out the Pacers , IU, Butler, Purdue and have two neutral teams play the NCAA is way, way more popular here. But that is not the case in cities LA, NYC, Miami, in a lot of the large more urban cities the NCAA doesn't get good ratings, the NBA does.

    Let me say this, if you go by media coverage, office talk about brackets and that sort of stuff, yes it seems like the NCAA is much more popular than the NBA, but TV ratings tell a different story. Seems a though there is a lot more chatter about the NCAA, but when it comes down to national TV ratings for the NCAA it doesn't measure up.

    The NFL is on a whole different level - can't compare it to the NBA or NCAA
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 02-04-2013 at 08:40 AM.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    3. The real complaint, well one of many actually, that I have with the NBA in general is that they have done a very poor job over the years in trying to educate that public on the actual game itself. I know they don't have complete content control of TNT or ESPN or even back when NBC was doing it (which btw was far superior to ABC/ESPN) but maybe every now and then they could have brought in a retired NBA referee or coach or even old star player and have them go over plays with replays from different angles showing how there are actual audibles in basketball on both the defensive and offensive end. You know instead of telling us every week what Jay Z song player A listens to or what kind of ride he has or yes even over some of the helping build a home stuff. The major misconception of the public is that the ball is given to player A he dribbles it till he drives and shoots or passes or loses it for some reason and we go the other way. The NFL has made major advances with women in particular in the 80's and on up by going over each and every play showing diagrams of what should have happened, what did happen and what could have happened.

    I guarantee you that a lot of the people in the stands have no idea how a pick and roll works or how valuable a quick wing defender can be or how by moving without the ball led to an open corner three or a layup. I know that during a live game there is no way to show this but the before and after game shows should. Even TNT does a really poor job of this if you think about it. They will show you the drive that Russell Westbrook made for a layup but they won't bother to tell you about the pick Kendrick Perkins set on his defender to give him a clear path.

    Okay that's enough of my ravings.


    I agree with you 100%. When I watch the non-game NBA coverage most of the time it is about personailties of the players, trade rumors, why the Lakers are so bad, why certain players cannot get along - very, very little is about the actual game. NBATV and Hubie Brown discuss the actual game, but that is about it. When I watch or listen to non-game NFL coverage it is entirely different, it is about the actual game, X&O's why a certain QB is better than another.

    The question is why? I have to believe the viewers want it that way

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    The primary reason the NBA can't compete with the excitement of the NFL or even NCAA basketball is the predictability. The structure of a one-and-done postseason makes upsets much more likely and thus, games are much more exciting.
    Let me present the other side of your argument. Every year the team that wins the NBA championship is the best team at the time of the playoffs. That doesn't happen every year in the NFL or NCAA. Maybe that is not a good thing, but I want the best team to win and we get that in the NBA IMO without fail. I think that is a good thing.

    More than that though winning an NBA title I think is a much more grueling task. It is hard, it is difficult, it is as much about endurance as anything else. That to me makes it a greater accomplishment than an NCAA or NFL.

    One other thing I need to mention. I'll just compare the NBA to the NCAA. I love the adjustments from game to game within a playoff series, I love the home and away of an NBA playoff series,(NCAA is all nuetral court, so they take perhaps the best thing about college basketball the home crowds out of the tournament) I love a game 7 after you have already seen 6 games played. The process of playing a team again and again does two things - breeds contempt between the teams and also brings about a much higher level of strategy than the NCAA. I love the adjustments game to game

    I love the 7 game series
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 02-04-2013 at 09:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Peck touched on one thing that I think plays a lot into it. The NFL and the networks they work with go out of their way to educate your average fan on what is going on. They have brought in ex players, coaches, and even ex head of officiating for the NFL to help educate your average fan. The NBA and their partners do not do this at all. This helps to show that the NFL is just far superior to college game. Sure you have a few people who profess college football being better, but there is no denying that the NFL game is far far superior. On the other hand a lot of people feel, especially here in Indiana, that the college game is better. The NBA is the far superior game, but it struggles especially here with showing that because they just do not educate as well as the NFL.

    Parity does play into it and when people talk about the NFL having more parity than the NBA they are not talking just about the champions. The NFL every year has a team that comes from no where to make the playoffs and some big name team takes a fall. This year the defending champions did not even make the playoffs and the Colts who went 2-14 last year made the playoffs. Then come playoff time teams can get hot and make a run like the Giants or Ravens this year. The Ravens were not one of the favorites going into this years playoffs. The Pats and Broncos were being penciled into the AFC title game. Yet, here are the Ravens who are now the champs. Stuff like that just does not happen the NBA.

    Their format in the playoffs and regular really removes the chance of that happening. They have way to many games and it removes the importance of the games. You go on a three game losing streak like the Pacers did in the NFL and you almost wasted 1/4th of your season. You got to bring your A game every week or you are easily going to lose control of your season. Come playoff time it is win or go home, but in the NBA it is oh well we dropped one, but we will get them tomorrow. That format does ensure better match ups, but the excitement of the underdog goes away as well.

    Another thing that makes the NFL so much easier to enjoy is the ability to plan. It is much easier to get together for 16 games on a Sunday which you know the time and what channel. With 82 games you just have way to many games and what might be a big game against the Heat might be the back end of a back to back or falls on a Tuesday night. It is just so much easier to plan get together for the big game especially come playoff time.

    If it tells you how much of a monster the NFL is their Pro Bowl had better ratings then the World Series games.

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  29. #74
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by thewholefnshow31 View Post
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    If it tells you how much of a monster the NFL is their Pro Bowl had better ratings then the World Series games.
    That caught my attention so I looked it up.

    Pro bowl got 12.3 million viewers. The average for the WS was 12.7.

    http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2013/01/2013-pro-bowl-tops-all-other-all-star-games-still-hits-four-year-low/


    http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2012/10/2012-world-series-lowest-rated-least-viewed-ever/>>


    World Series
    Game #1 - 12.2 million viewers
    Game #2 - 12.3 Millions viewers
    Game #3 - 10.5 million viewers
    Game #4 15.5 million viewers
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 02-04-2013 at 10:38 AM.

  30. #75
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    Default Re: Why the NBA can't keep up with the NFL.

    Quote Originally Posted by thewholefnshow31 View Post
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    If it tells you how much of a monster the NFL is their Pro Bowl had better ratings then the World Series games.
    ***** Christ!!! That's astonishing and sad at the same time (although I couldn't care less for baseball).
    You **** up once, you lose two teeth

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