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Thread: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

  1. #26
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Yep, I have to eat crow about Lance as well

    I never actually disliked him but I certainly preferred DC and AJ over him last year due to their more controlled play. Also, I got in several heated debates in RealGM with a guy that apparently hated DC but loved Lance that ended up in me being unfair to Lance in order to spite that horrible poster.

    Lance has been great this season. It's such a pleasant surprise. You have also been great for my fantasy team. So, thanks, Lance

    I was definitely wrong and crow tastes nice. Can I have some curry on it, please?
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
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  3. #27

    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    #1 thing he needs is...
    Free throw shooting, free throw shooting, free throw shooting.

    He's going to get fouled a lot in his career. Right now he's at .595.

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  5. #28
    Indiana Pacers Forever Pacer Fan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    White is in the Dleague he and the Rockets are back together. He is waiting until the 11th to debut because then they have a huge home stand.

    In that same piece they showed his draft day and his agent and him were talking and they said the Pacers were out at #26 as was Boston and almost every other team Mchale was the only reason he was drafted so high.
    Yea, I watched the show, I was wondering if anyone heard of who the one team is that is interested in working with White if it doesn't workout in Houston. Gumble said it like they know of a team with interest. Maybe I misunderstood what was said.
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    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  6. #29
    Indiana Pacers Forever Pacer Fan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I just watched it again and at the end, Gumble ask the guy that interviewed White his options and he said if it doesn't work out that there is one team, one team that will work with him. So he might be with that team if it doesn't work out. So, I'm wondering who the team is.

    Just cause a team didn't have interest in him for a draft pick doesn't mean that team wouldn't have interest now without having to give up a 1st round pick.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  7. #30
    Member Dr. Awesome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I always had faith he would be a pretty good player...even when I probably shouldn't have.

  8. #31

    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I got fairly well flamed for this thread I started after Lance's first couple of summer league games three years ago:

    "Lance Stephenson will revolutionize the Pacers"

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...ize-the-Pacers
    Ha... Who the heck is Stanley Robinson?

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  10. #32

    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Ha... Who the heck is Stanley Robinson?
    One of the most athletic players to ever play in a Uconn uniform. Unfortunately, that was all he could do.

    AJ used to make him look significantly better at basketball than he actually was. (He just knew how to play with him. Similar to Thabeet.) Tricked a lot of scouts. That is until the next season, where Stanley couldn't function without him.

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  12. #33
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I really had no major convictions on Lance. My reactions have been from the posters who would have given up the playoff run two years ago just to give him some PT. I trusted fully in the timing of the staff and their usage of him. Vogel is a players coach and he is limiting him with reason. I do not know the reasons, but it may come from the same vein that he just benched Gerald.

    We all wanted Gerald benched quicker. Many did not want to see DJ back. But we knew that Ben Hans was not much better. I think that Vogel and the staff know their players. And they give too much of a leash if anything at all. So the pacing with Lance's development and acclimation into the rotation is all right with me. I don't get too high on minimal results from 2nd rounders. AJ was a decent pick.

    But now I am fighting not to be elated for Lance's success.

  13. #34
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    I really had no major convictions on Lance. My reactions have been from the posters who would have given up the playoff run two years ago just to give him some PT. I trusted fully in the timing of the staff and their usage of him. Vogel is a players coach and he is limiting him with reason. I do not know the reasons, but it may come from the same vein that he just benched Gerald.

    We all wanted Gerald benched quicker. Many did not want to see DJ back. But we knew that Ben Hans was not much better. I think that Vogel and the staff know their players. And they give too much of a leash if anything at all. So the pacing with Lance's development and acclimation into the rotation is all right with me. I don't get too high on minimal results from 2nd rounders. AJ was a decent pick.

    But now I am fighting not to be elated for Lance's success.
    Free Lance with elation!
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  14. #35
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    On the subject of Lance: where do you all think he still has the most room for growth? What does he have to do to take his game to the next level?

    My quick, though dumb compared to the rest of you whole know this team better than I do , answer is that he just needs minutes, needs to go through different in-game scenarios, needs to build situational awareness. Things you can't necessarily teach in practice. I see the skillset, and I'm sure there are still a thousand things to work on there, but I mostly notice a general lack of awareness at times. Can't help but think it's youth.
    I think Lance needs to continue to work on his mid range J. He can get the space for it pretty much whenever he wants but as of yet hasn't really shown the ability to consistently knock it down. If he can get the accuracy on that shot down he would help his scoring a lot.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  16. #36
    Member InYaFace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I wonder why nobody brought the name Dahntay Jones up,because in my opinion he played a big role in helping and developing Lance when he was young and when he said things against older players from the team. I never watched them live but for me it looked like they had a tight relationship...but maybe it's just me. I really liked Dahntay,he had a good attitude.

  17. #37
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by InYaFace View Post
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    I wonder why nobody brought the name Dahntay Jones up,because in my opinion he played a big role in helping and developing Lance when he was young and when he said things against older players from the team. I never watched them live but for me it looked like they had a tight relationship...but maybe it's just me. I really liked Dahntay,he had a good attitude.
    Just speculation here, but I think they may have had a schoolyard fight relationship. Early on with Lance he and Dahntay got into it. They must have made up, decided they respected each other, and become friends.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  18. #38

    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by InYaFace View Post
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    I wonder why nobody brought the name Dahntay Jones up,because in my opinion he played a big role in helping and developing Lance when he was young and when he said things against older players from the team. I never watched them live but for me it looked like they had a tight relationship...but maybe it's just me. I really liked Dahntay,he had a good attitude.
    I agree, just from the interaction.

    In fact, I think Dahntay played a pretty large role in helping a lot of the younger guys.

  19. #39
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I agree, just from the interaction.

    In fact, I think Dahntay played a pretty large role in helping a lot of the younger guys.
    I thought so too, so it was odd seeing Dahntay being labeled a locker room problem after he was traded.

    Anyway, like a lot of other posters here, I'll happily eat crow on Lance. Kudos to the believers who saw it in him early on.

    Between Lance and Paul George, who has been the more surprising this year? Getting to star level like Paul did is always tough, but to me Lance turning into a steady glue guy with the starters is even more amazing considering where he started from. And yes he still has the potential to be more than a steady contributor.

    Is it too early to speculate on what it would cost to keep Lance? He'll need a new contract at the same time as Paul G.

  20. #40
    #RiseOfTheKing imbtyler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    ....damn, guys. you all are making me pretty hungry for some crow right now. unfortunately for my appetite, I was far too understanding of Lance's situation, and always hoped he would develop into something similar to what he has. I was sketched out by his disposition during the start of his career, but it takes most players a couple-few years to get acclimated to the NBA (Paul freaking George). Now that he's coming into his own, Lance is killing the competition.

    I hope your crow tastes tasty.
    witters: @imbtyler, @postgameonline

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    In conclusion, Paul George is awesome.
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  21. #41
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I think Lance is going to turn into one of the those players you love to have on YOUR team, but every other team's fans don't like. I think he may be willing to wear the black hat, like Reggie. (which, ultimately, I think the opposing fans love . . . love to hate.)

    But that would explain why the process has taken so long here with the fans. At least in part. He has that cocky (swagger? immature? ruthless?) personality that rubs you the wrong way unless it is producing wonderfully for you or your team. That, coupled with early PR problems (of which we still don't know how much was rooted in reality) and his exciting (wild? out of control?) style of play that can easily be interpreted as unnecessary street ball -- all that has contributed to a slow awakening of the fan base. But it seems to be happening now.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  22. #42
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    No one could have known whether he would mature emotionally. But I think all of us could see he had game.

  23. #43

    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I am proud to say that I did not say harsh things about him amid his off-court stuff. But I did not back him up as much as other posters here, like 90's and McKeyFan, so I'll give them props for being a firm believer even if many had so much doubts that he'll "get it." I even have some doubts about his future in the NBA not because of character but because of him not having success on the court when he gets some time, so I'll eat some serving of a crow for that. He has the great physical gifts to succeed, and I believe everybody will agree that we know he has the greatest potential alongside PG, he just had great maturity issues early on that held him back.

    With the partial success of the Lance Stephenson project, I would like to give credit to the following guys in the Pacers organization:

    Larry Bird: A true Lance believer since day 1 when he became a Pacer. Picked him up when nobody did, even his hometown NY skipped him. Even gave him a guaranteed contract in spite of previous mishaps (James White). Stuck with him even if he had some questionable character and had off-court troubles that plagued the Pacers organization in recent years. And even guided him up until now even if he's not around the organization anymore.

    Clark Kellogg: He has a major role in improving Lance's character. We know that it's still some ways to go before the transformation becomes complete (the last playoffs with Miami and last game against Miami again comes to mind). But the improvement has shown great results when comparing before and after.

    Dahntay Jones: The big brother that just keeps him at bay. Having a firm character clashing with Lance has helped shaping up the maturity of Lance. A great buddy to hang out with Lance on the bench, and maybe outside the court if there is any.

    Brian Shaw: Aside from his character, we know that Lance is a raw talent that needs polishing. With Brian Shaw's help, we see the improved play not only of Lance, but of PG as well. Just a great job as a mentor in terms of professional basketball development.

    Frank Vogel: It's him who handles the rotation, and he gave him the chance. He is the one in charge of minutes distribution, and gradually he's giving him plenty. He tells what plays to execute, and we notice that he's giving Lance some plays designed for him. And we know he's giving Lance the sermons, the encouragement, and the directions needed for him to succeed in the NBA. A great coach for Lance indeed.

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  25. #44
    Member *astrisk*'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Is it too early to speculate on what it would cost to keep Lance? He'll need a new contract at the same time as Paul G.
    As I said a month ago, the earlier, the cheaper... I think that 6 Mil is the magic # going into the summer for Lance. If a renegotiation doesn't happen this summer, he or Danny WILL BE GONE...

    If we get him for 6, then West and Danny HAVE to agree to take a discount for Danny to stay past next year. (West at 8-10 and Danny 7-8)

    Even then, Hansbrough is gone and we would have to figure a way to get rid of Green's 3.5 mil per to be safe...

    It's gonna be close and I don't know if the NBA egos will be willing to take the hit...

  26. #45
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by *astrisk* View Post
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    As I said a month ago, the earlier, the cheaper... I think that 6 Mil is the magic # going into the summer for Lance. If a renegotiation doesn't happen this summer, he or Danny WILL BE GONE...
    That would be an interesting gamble for the Pacers. Right now we have Lance locked up for another year at a cheap price on a team option. Do we release him from the team option, and attempt to re-sign him to a long deal, presumably before his market price goes up after another year's improvement?

    Keep in mind that the last team to try this sort of thing was the Cavs with Boozer, and that... didn't end well for the Cavs. As the Boozer case showed, the NBA won't honor any sort of wink-wink arrangement we may make with Lance's agent. Trying to be too clever could cost us here.

  27. #46
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I think as much as we want to give praise to everyone else for Lance's turnaroung, we need to give Lance the most praise and credit.

    Think about it, he was a HS prodigy, then went on to be a decent but not overly spectacular college player. He came to the Pacers and for him, kinda hit rock bottom. He wasn't playing much, and had to bust his tail in order to even stay on the team, let alone get in the rotation. A lot of guys in the past have had these types of issues, and end up being forgotten talent (Omar Cook, Lenny Cooke, Erick Barkley, Darius Washington, Dujuan Wagner, etc) Yet Lance (with the help of L.Bird) has been able to find his NBA game.

    He went from a ball dominant, playground guard that couldn't shoot, couldn't differentiate between being aggressive and being out of control (still a small prob from time to time) and couldn't play defense; to a player that moves well without the ball, is a consistent knock down shooter, and is often times the motor to a key Pacer run.

    What I'm saying is, Lance has endured a lot in a short time within his career. But he's stayed hungry has kept working hard, and is finally reaping the benefits. The great thing is, as well as Lance has played, he's still only averaging about 8 pts a game--he still has the potential to be so much more. Vogel continues to have somewhat of a leash on him, which I think is a good thing. I think we're still about 2 years away before we see the type of jump from Lance that we've seen from PG this year.

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  29. #47

    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    No one could have known whether he would mature emotionally. But I think all of us could see he had game.

    Hmm, ....


    No. I'd say at least 50% of those who commented on Lance prior to the first week of this season did not acknowledge his basketball talents at all, and of the 50% that did, probably 10% actually wanted him on the team.

    There were a ton of unfair, whiny and quite honestly uneducated opinions that went something like this: He turns the ball over, he can't shoot, his passing is flashy but poor, he can't play defense (seriously?), he should be cut so the team can keep Ben Hansbrough (seriously!). To say nothing of the typical "Low BBall IQ" nonsense.


    So I guess maybe everyone could see he had game, but the majority decided not to mention it in their posts.

    Props to McKeyFan, I had confidence in Lance from the beginning too, although it was a shaky, please-don't-do-anything-to-get-yourself-in-the-doghouse confidence. One false step and he would've been gone. Complaining about his (admittedly probably unfair) sporadic PT and limited role last year and he would've been gone. Mope around and be lazy in practices and he would've been gone. Thankfully he's matured a lot, and we've got one of the most dynamic young SGs in the league.

  30. #48
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdStrike View Post
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    Hmm, ....


    No. I'd say at least 50% of those who commented on Lance prior to the first week of this season did not acknowledge his basketball talents at all, and of the 50% that did, probably 10% actually wanted him on the team.

    There were a ton of unfair, whiny and quite honestly uneducated opinions that went something like this: He turns the ball over, he can't shoot, his passing is flashy but poor, he can't play defense (seriously?), he should be cut so the team can keep Ben Hansbrough (seriously!). To say nothing of the typical "Low BBall IQ" nonsense.
    Yep.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  31. #49
    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Lance is going to be and already has been a roller-coaster ride for most of his career. He deserves the utmost of credit for maturing greatly as a human being and as a basketball player. But make no mistake about it...he has that part of him that will always be there. That SJax, playground mentality, trashtalking, ***** at the refs inside him. Where he along with the Pacers staff deserves so much credit is for putting proper restraints on it. Bringing it under control for the most part. But it still shows its head from time to time. And almost assuredly always will...In fact as he gains more experience and tenure its likely to rear its head a bit more often, because he will have a longer leash. Hes a great talent, but lets hope he doesnt pick up technicals at just the wrong moment or go a little playground on the court at just the wrong moment...because it will happen...and if at the wrong time, you will have more than a few on here doing another 180 saying they knew it all the time and were just fooled. How good he becomes is actually the real interesting part. Larry thought he could be really really good...so i tend to trust that. And u can see the signs of it. But at times you can also see things that if not dealt with very gingerly could hold him back from reaching whatever potential he might have. Either way, like i said, its going to be a roller-coaster and should be pretty entertaining at times.

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  33. #50
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    But make no mistake about it...he has that part of him that will always be there. That SJax, playground mentality, trashtalking, ***** at the refs inside him.
    Totally disagree.

    Yes, I understand your sense that Lance is passionate and that he can be vocal and flashy. But I see very, very little resemblance to Stephen Jackson and his utter ugliness and poor character on the basketball floor. When does Lance complain to the officials? I hardly ever see it. When has Lance visibly defied his coach? I've never seen anything like that. When has Lance puffed up his chest and gone after the opposition or the fans? Never. He's done the exact opposite, even when terribly provoked in the most unjust manner.

    You do Lance a terrible disservice, even a slander, to compare him to Stephen Jackson. They are both passionate, and that is where the similarity ends. Jackson directed his passion toward the refs, toward violent behavior, and toward rebellion against his coaches. Lance directs his, verbally, toward the competition—in a proper, healthy, nonviolent way—and, even better, toward defense, rebounding, and cheering on his teammates.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 02-04-2013 at 11:09 AM.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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