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Thread: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

  1. #1
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    So I'm coming here to officially eat crow on Lance.

    I didn't think he could mature, I didn't think he could grow, and I didn't think he would learn. I was wrong. Look the thing about Lance and I is that I have watched him since he was in High School when he was a strong IU lean before the whole Sampson mess went down. I saw a kid with tremendous wing talent to make individually amazing plays, but his biggest issue was that he forced too much. Every amazing play was followed by two amazingly bone headed plays that weren't just bad decisions but also showed a lack of skill. Lance is exciting always has been, and now that he is being used as this wing offensive initiator he is playing the role that I thought would give him the best shot to play. Lance I still believe is not a "PG" he is not the guy you want getting your offense set up, but he is the guy you want slicing up the defense a lot of the time once you have your offense set up. Hill and Lance blend very well because of this and I think Lance and DJ can blend very well because of this as well.

    Lance had his high school days, and then the IU event happened and Lance was back on the market for a lot of college teams, he ended up landing at Cincinatti where he was good, but never really dominant yet again. And what dinged me off a little more about him was here was a guy who's two schools were either a Kelvin Sampson led IU program (uh, oh) and Cincinatti.

    Then we had some of the character events his first year, and well it was downhill from there with me and him. In the end, the NBA is a business and I viewed Lance as a huge unknown in the Pacers quest to shed their "thug" label among the casual Indianapolis fan, but then a few things happened and Lance began to change both on the court and IMO probably off of it (I now see Lance at Mo's after a lot of game and he seems to be very approachable and if anything he seems shy, just wants to eat his dinner and go). We signed David West of course, and then we also had the event where Lance visited Area55 and this made it onto PD and I began to wonder, maybe this kid will get it.

    Well he has, and now he is an absolute joy to watch. He is a prototype NBA microwave style shooting guard and he plays damn good defense to boot. I love his trash talking. I'm glad we were blessed with a coach in Vogel who IMO always knew that Lance's future would be on the wing.

    Seth and I talked last night at half time, the contract decision for the Pacers is probably not Danny vs. West, it is probably Lance vs. Danny where do these two end up coming in and where does OJ end up growing to. I don't know what kind of deal Lance and Danny may get next, but I do know that if we have to part ways with one of them it will be a sad day in Pacer nation.

    We are so blessed as a fan of a franchise that has allowed us to watch so many young players grow up, it is an amazingly fun bonding event between a franchise and a player, we know the historical guys, Reggie, Dale Davis, Rik Smits, Antonio, etc. we got to watch those guys go from fresh faced NBA first round fodder to eventually damn near NBA champions and maybe the best core of players to never win a title.

    Now we have Danny, Paul, Lance, Roy, heck I'll even toss Tyler in here because I believe even he has stunned me and has managed to become a better defender this year. The Pacers have a little bit of a college feel to them, they take a core and they grow it and we the fans get to reap the rewards and suffering through the losses and the growing pains, and the "Will Paul ever learn how to dribble?" "Will Lance ever get it?" and then at the end, we get this great payoff, not just a team that is good and wins games, the Knicks have that, the Heat have that, but we have something different, something special, we have those memories where Paul could barely take Kyle Korver off the bounce let alone Lebron James, we have the memories where Lance could barely play 30 seconds against Rodney Stuckey before making a bone headed mistake, let alone 39 minutes of inspired exciting basketball against one of the best shooting guards of the past 20 years.

    Yes, Pacers fans, we are blessed with another team we have gotten to watch grow up. Now we just get to sit back, watch, and enjoy. And for me Lance's journey may be the most satisfying one of all.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    So are you going to tell 90's that he was right all this time?

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    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So are you going to tell 90's that he was right all this time?
    90s was definitely right that Lance could learn and grow. However, until the day I die (Or the day Lance proves me wrong I guess ) that Lance is not a point guard

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  6. #4

    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I feel like the majority of this board, including myself could have made this topic

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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    I feel like the majority of this board, including myself could have made this topic
    I just got labeled as a "Lance hater" a lot early in his career. Never really hated him, just didn't think he would ever be more than a 9 or 10 guy and also a PR risk, I was wrong.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    and also a PR risk,

    This was my fear, and why I wanted him gone ASAP. How things change!

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    A lot of credit probably needs to go to Clark Kellogg for being a mentor to him.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I never thought he could defend NBA players. I never thought he could shoot like this. He's doing pretty well defensively and he's shooting great. I was definitely wrong about him. I also thought he's most definitely have off court issues that embarrassed the franchise. Wrong again.

    Where's my plate?

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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    The Pacers management, staff and Kellogg all deserve major kudos.

    I have always been a believer in Lance, but even I didn't know if he'd ever figure it out. PG and Lance are aren't even at their full potential, and I still feel Lance will break out next year much like PG did this year.

    I hope both are resigned long term. Hill, Lance, PG, West and Hibbert...that's one of the best starting 5 in the league. I don't really want to see Granger go, but if he can bring back some pieces to improve that bench, then I'm all for it.

    Just have to wait to see how it all plays out, but this Pacer team is exciting.

    And just think if Vogel ever implements a decent offensive system!
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    A lot of credit probably needs to go to Clark Kellogg and Larry Bird for being mentors to him.
    Fixed. I honestly think that there are only a few spots Lance could have gone where the support structure was in place for him to become a successful NBA player (San Antonio being the other that comes to mind). I'd also give Jeff Foster a ton of credit for working with Lance during the lockout when Larry and Clark couldn't have contact with him. And now the fruits of their labors are paying off. It's truly a blast to watch, especially seeing as hard Lance has worked to improve his game (remember when he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from 3 just a year ago?).
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Could definitely use some pepper on my crow. Tastes better than I thought.

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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I'll have some of that crow too....tastes good.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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  23. #13

    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I agree.

    I think for me too, I didn't expect the Pacers organization to act, in a way, like a college program..where they would concern themselves with mentoring Lance.

    He also, despite being "exciting" clearly didn't understand a team concept or fundamental basketball, and his skills weren't even skills that would really aid a team. Those players usually don't grow into players who understand a team game or grow into anything useful. But credit to Lance, he certainly did work hard to apply his skills to the team game, understand how to play within the flow of an offense etc..

    Although I think he can be overrated here because of his "exciting" play, but honestly he is significantly better than I ever imagined him being. Like Trader, I was wrong..and seriously, good for Lance.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I got fairly well flamed for this thread I started after Lance's first couple of summer league games three years ago:

    "Lance Stephenson will revolutionize the Pacers"

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...ize-the-Pacers
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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  27. #15

    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    On the subject of Lance: where do you all think he still has the most room for growth? What does he have to do to take his game to the next level?

    My quick, though dumb compared to the rest of you whole know this team better than I do , answer is that he just needs minutes, needs to go through different in-game scenarios, needs to build situational awareness. Things you can't necessarily teach in practice. I see the skillset, and I'm sure there are still a thousand things to work on there, but I mostly notice a general lack of awareness at times. Can't help but think it's youth.

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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    TJ, I also ordered the crow when I posted earlier in Peck's post game summary thread. I could attempt to add something here, but I would not be able to add anything important to your post. Although we are discouraged from doing so, may I just simply say "ditto".

    Very well written and it sums up my current embarrassed, yet excited, state about Lance's abilities, potential and contributions.

    Sincerely... thank you.

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  30. #17
    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I'll take a serving too. Initially, i was pretty excited to grab him in the second round. as soon as his little incidents happened i was done with him. I gave him no chance at all after that. I probably wasn't as public with my thoughts on Lance as some here have been. But I certainly felt much the same way as TJ posted above. It's been surprising to me and I'm glad it has happened both for Lance and for Pacers fans.

  31. #18

    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    On the subject of Lance: where do you all think he still has the most room for growth? What does he have to do to take his game to the next level?

    My quick, though dumb compared to the rest of you whole know this team better than I do , answer is that he just needs minutes, needs to go through different in-game scenarios, needs to build situational awareness. Things you can't necessarily teach in practice. I see the skillset, and I'm sure there are still a thousand things to work on there, but I mostly notice a general lack of awareness at times. Can't help but think it's youth.
    Mostly mental stuff. Understanding how the offense should be run, decision making, knowing where to be in "team defense." He's improved tremendously there, but he's still got a ways to go.

    He's not like PG where you look at PG and go "he could improve on his ball handling, he can improve his strength so when going to the basket, he can improve his shooting percentage on the road..etc.." PG has a lot of physical stuff he can do (as well as mental, he needs to clean up his turnovers, know when to take over the game - although he's better at that then he was..) I think the physical skill Lance needed to learn in order to be a part of the rotation is shooting. And he learned that. His ball handling, strength, passing (when he makes errors there..it's mental..it's not that he can't pass) rebounding (good for a guard), aren't things that I think he can improve on. He even has gotten himself in much better shape this season.

    I said before, whatever Lance did to help his shooting, every player should do. Because there is a remarkable improvement.

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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    The Pacers management, staff and Kellogg all deserve major kudos.

    I have always been a believer in Lance, but even I didn't know if he'd ever figure it out. PG and Lance are aren't even at their full potential, and I still feel Lance will break out next year much like PG did this year.

    I hope both are resigned long term. Hill, Lance, PG, West and Hibbert...that's one of the best starting 5 in the league. I don't really want to see Granger go, but if he can bring back some pieces to improve that bench, then I'm all for it.

    Just have to wait to see how it all plays out, but this Pacer team is exciting.

    And just think if Vogel ever implements a decent offensive system!
    I agree I loved Lance in the draft process as a project but I didn't think he would be this good this fast. He had so many flaws in his game and that doesn't even count his off the court issues.

    Who ever the Pacers main development guys deserve a ton of credit what they have done with Roy and Lance especially are amazing. It's one thing to see the upside in a guy it's another to take the guy from scratch give him a plan and the guidance needed to get there. I liked Paul George a lot better because he did it all at Fresno and was NBA ready as a defense and 3pt guy from day one IMO. But I remember saying after the draft that Lance had more upside offensively then him but his defense was really bad and wouldn't be able to improve that much. Boy did the player development staff prove me wrong Lance has become a man on defense. Lance deserves a ton of credit he busted his *** to get in shape and totally change his game on that end of the floor. He still will closeout wrong on certain guys and over help but he is so much better on defense.

    I cant wait to see this team at 100%

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    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Read my Pacers.com Guest Blog:
    "Area 55 Conquers Staples Center"

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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Yea, at this early stage, he has proven me wrong, which I am very pleased to see. I hope he continues to excel.

    BTW, I was watching Gumble on HBO about Royce White. At one point, he said there is one team that shows interest on helping him if Houston didn't want to deal with White's case. I wonder what team that would be. Anyone hear anything? I couldn't help but think the Pacers. What do you guys think?
    .

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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    There is a reason Larry called him the most talented player on the team. Whether he believed it or not, I think a lot of it had to do with Lance needing someone to believe in his talent. He was always told he was good, but when Larry Legend says it, that's something else. The kid us good. I love that he trash talks. It fits this team so well.

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  39. #23
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Hibbert View Post
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    On the subject of Lance: where do you all think he still has the most room for growth? What does he have to do to take his game to the next level?

    My quick, though dumb compared to the rest of you whole know this team better than I do , answer is that he just needs minutes, needs to go through different in-game scenarios, needs to build situational awareness. Things you can't necessarily teach in practice. I see the skillset, and I'm sure there are still a thousand things to work on there, but I mostly notice a general lack of awareness at times. Can't help but think it's youth.
    #1 thing he needs is continued experience and maturity. He's come a LONG way, but you still see him regress when he does well and he starts trying to be too cute again. The more he reigns that in WHILE staying smart/aggressive, the more dangerous he becomes (in a good way).

    Regarding anything in particular... I'd say an off-the-dribble 18' that is as accurate as his catch and shoot 3's are now would make him pretty damn hard to guard considering how he hits 3's and how he can sometimes get to the hoop and finish. I mean how do you guard him if he masters that?

    Second thing that comes to mind is more practice in pick and rolls/pops. If he can consistently force the defense to honor his threat to drive in a PnR, a guy like West would have a field day.

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  41. #24
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Yea, at this early stage, he has proven me wrong, which I am very pleased to see. I hope he continues to excel.

    BTW, I was watching Gumble on HBO about Royce White. At one point, he said there is one team that shows interest on helping him if Houston didn't want to deal with White's case. I wonder what team that would be. Anyone hear anything? I couldn't help but think the Pacers. What do you guys think?
    White is in the Dleague he and the Rockets are back together. He is waiting until the 11th to debut because then they have a huge home stand.

    In that same piece they showed his draft day and his agent and him were talking and they said the Pacers were out at #26 as was Boston and almost every other team Mchale was the only reason he was drafted so high.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mmm mmm this is a tasty dish

    I think what Lance needs is more opportunities to initiate the offense and the freedom to make two or three mistakes a game—basically what Paul George has. If he's given that, he can relax more and really make things happen.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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