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Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

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  • #31
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Originally posted by Peck View Post
    Also can we talk draft value for a min? Our starting shooting guard who IMO outplayed their starting shooting guard was a second round pick, his backup who came in and gave you a few quality min. even though he is a rookie was also drafted in the 2nd round. Roy Hibbert was a low first round pick & Tyler was a late lottery pick. Only our star player was picked in the top 10 and he was number 10. I’m not looking at where players on our team were drafted by other teams just ours. But really look at the value we are getting for modest investment. If you draft with purpose and do your homework you can get good players outside the lottery.



    The Legend continues to get the last laugh on virtually every major move made from 2008-2012. Every starter last night is a Bird guy. Two of them, PG and Lance, were added before the 2010-11 season and two others were added before 2011-12. The moves Bird made during that important two year stretch are nothing short of A+++++++. The 2011-12 off-season additions of Hill and West might go down as the best Pacer off-season ever. West is without question the greatest FA signing the Pacers have ever had. George Hill was such a solid addition because not only he is a very good player, but he also spent three years learning how an A+ Spurs organization conducts itself. Spending time with Pop, Duncan, Manu, Parker, etc, without question rubbed off on Hill and he has brought those winning characteristics here.

    How anyone could criticize Bird at this point boggles my mind. Honestly, I think most criticism of him is because of an inherent bias that some people have against him because they didn't like him as a player. But the stud team we have right now is 100% a reflection of the awesome work Bird did as GM over the last few seasons.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

      Originally posted by imawhat View Post
      He was chirping with them all night. At the end of the first half I saw both Wade and LeBron approach a ref and complain while everyone else headed to the locker-room and thought it was strange (since neither of them missed a whistle). But then on Twitter I read they were both complaining about Lance's trash talk.
      Wade and LeBron are giant 8 year olds complaining about a "mean bully".

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

        Originally posted by Cousy47 View Post
        I posted elsewhere last night and am stilling wondering why Mia. didn't move James to the 4 to slow West down. Anthony could have helped but maybe he's hurt? Lebron IMO is the only player the Heat have who is strong enough and quick enough to guard West when he's on a roll. Would cause the Heat some other problems(PG) but I kept expecting it, and it never happened.
        Yeah I don't know why they didn't put Lebron on West, I hear rumors before that Lebron and Wade guard whoever they want so probably Lebron didn't want to have anything to do with West? I also remember hearing comments that Spoeltra wants Lebron to play more point guard but he doesn't want to so I guess you can't force the guy.
        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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        • #34
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

          I haven't posted in a while. Go Pacers!

          I thought I'd chime in and say its hilarious that Wade and James were so bothered by Lance's trash talk. Can you imagine them playing against someone like Reggie? The Heat are ridiculously talented, but we have the right gameplan to beat them. For the Pacers (or any other team) it's important to get physical with them and get in their faces. Normally I prefer a more calm type of basketball, but you have to get mean to beat the heat. They can't handle mean. What a great game.

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          • #35
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

            Originally posted by Johanvil View Post
            Look, he offers a lot defensively. That has been said a lot of times and is a reason why he saves some face this season. But a lot sound like excuses. Contested tips? Don't know about that. Of course some of them are gonna be difficult but some of them have also been ridiculously easy for a 7"2 center to miss them. Plus he has been right under the basket attempting those. Regarding the double teams. Can't recall many of them from last night tbh but again does not excuse his game on the offensive end all season long and the first half of yesterday's match. He was much much better during the second half though where he grabbed his whole points and rebounds.
            Yeap, he had that much of a great game in the first half where he had a big fat zero in every stat line bar one foul and one turnover....
            A few weeks ago I was taking exception to Hibbert and the shots he was missing, as well as his lack of aggressiveness on the offensive end. My line of thinking was that, if I were the coach, I would tell him he could shoot as much as he wanted as long as each shot was a dunk attempt. I'm glad to see that in the last week Vogel has encouraged Hibbert to dunk everything he can possibly dunk. I think Vogel wanted to also see more aggressiveness, as well as an end to Hibbert missing so many bunnies under the basket. The Pacers have changed their offense to exclude Hibbert as a a focal point in the post; they now put the majority of offensive opportunities in the post through West. Hibbert is able to focus the majority of his energies on defense and is not force-fed on offense. The Pacers use him in the post as opportunities present themselves and I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of his field goals come from put backs or dish offs.

            I think the games with Miami have served to emphasis a couple of things. First off, the importance of re-signing David West. I'm not going to even attempt to qualify keeping him over Granger or others in our need to re-sign players. After last nights game, any possible explanation that I could give could not possibly include each and every reason. They simply are too numerous, so I won't even try in fear that I might leave out one or two very important ones.

            Secondly, it is almost as important to re-sign Stephenson. I once said that Stephenson was bench fodder, I nice project to have, but just another warm body on an NBA bench that could easily be replaced by countless other players that are not even in the league. Does anyone have any mustard for the crow that I am eating? It is not very tasty and should have been plucked first.

            But right now, I could almost bet that Miami would attempt to sign Lance when he becomes available. And Peck has told us why. He can handle Wade and his trash talking gets under Wade's and Lebron's skins like no other player in the league. Heck, Sir James would probably want Lance on his team just so he didn't have to listen to Lance's crap a few times a season. Seriously though, Stephenson has quickly become an unselfish, complete basketball player. He is great with the ball on the break and in distribution, is a magnificent back court rebounder and defender and rarely takes a bad shot. That being said, I like his role as a combo guard better than as a point guard. Every team needs a Lance Stephenson and every team wants a Lance Stephenson.

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            • #36
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

              3 year plan

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              • #37
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                Originally posted by Peck View Post

                Lance isn’t anywhere like that but in some ways it’s all the same, Lance has nothing compelling him not to take it at those two each and every game and frankly I think it takes them out of their game. Also its not like he’s a scrub who’s sitting on the bench not playing like he did last year, he did this while dropping 15 on them and just suffocating Wade with defense. He seemed to take it a little easier on Allen the few times he was rotated on him but I think that is more because he looks at him like a Grandpa figure.

                Okay I won’t lie either, I hate Wade. I didn’t used to but these past two years he has turned into a whiney little runt who looks to the referees each and every time he has the ball. Way to often they reward his whining with free throws so that gets under my skin as well. So I won’t deny that Lance giving him an earful while beating them on the court gives me great pleasure.
                I'm pretty sure you have a typo above. I think you meant to type a C and not an R when talking about Wade being whiney.
                Danger Zone

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                • #38
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                  Hold your horses everybody, anybody implying that Miami is "scared of us" needs to calm down for a moment.

                  Lets not forget that not only did they beat us in 6 games without Bosh last year, but the 2011 Bulls swept them in the regular season and then went on to lose in 5 to Miami in the playoffs. To put it bluntly, Miami doesn't care about this win nearly as much as we do. Not that they shouldn't be alarmed, or that they can just rely on history to repeat itself, but we have to remember this means jack until we can take them out in the playoffs.
                  //

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                    Originally posted by imawhat View Post
                    He was chirping with them all night. At the end of the first half I saw both Wade and LeBron approach a ref and complain while everyone else headed to the locker-room and thought it was strange (since neither of them missed a whistle). But then on Twitter I read they were both complaining about Lance's trash talk.
                    THEY BOTH SOFTER THAN A BABY'S ***! If they had played with Jordan, Bird and a in-his-Prime Reggie, could you imagine them complaining to the refs about their trash talking? They would get eaten ALIVE!
                    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

                    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "

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                    • #40
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                      i am wondering about some things......
                      looking at miami this year i ask myself, do they looks better than last year, the same or worse than?
                      i can't say they are better. and i can't say they are noticeably worse. they look to me to be about the same perhaps slightly worse.

                      what has changed for the pacers since last year?
                      well, so far- no danny granger. however, we have seen that hole filled better than i anticipated with the contributions from guys like paul george and lance. these guys have made substantial contributions all over. they can score inside and out, they can attack and finish and they can both apply some mean, tough D. throw in a true center in mahinmi who has gotten more comfortable with the squad since he struggled early to figure things out and those are some factors that make this current squad without danny to be better than the playoff team we had last year.
                      lance's D has been a big help with his ability match up well against a guy like wade. i think he will do just fine against D. rose when he returns too.
                      figuring out the rotations when danny returns is a problem i welcome. it just makes us deeper and like i mentioned about his return in another thread, i am less worried about how his return affects the team than if he was a rookie or free agent who hadn't any previous experience with this team or coach. we have times where we struggle with scoring- he can help with that.
                      i would give the coach and team an overall grade so far about an B+/ A- considering i didn't think they would be playing this well.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                        Originally posted by clownskull View Post
                        well, so far- no danny granger. however, we have seen that hole filled better than i anticipated with the contributions from guys like paul george and lance.
                        One of the worst wing combinations in the league.



                        "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                          Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post


                          The Legend continues to get the last laugh on virtually every major move made from 2008-2012. Every starter last night is a Bird guy. Two of them, PG and Lance, were added before the 2010-11 season and two others were added before 2011-12. The moves Bird made during that important two year stretch are nothing short of A+++++++. The 2011-12 off-season additions of Hill and West might go down as the best Pacer off-season ever. West is without question the greatest FA signing the Pacers have ever had. George Hill was such a solid addition because not only he is a very good player, but he also spent three years learning how an A+ Spurs organization conducts itself. Spending time with Pop, Duncan, Manu, Parker, etc, without question rubbed off on Hill and he has brought those winning characteristics here.

                          How anyone could criticize Bird at this point boggles my mind. Honestly, I think most criticism of him is because of an inherent bias that some people have against him because they didn't like him as a player. But the stud team we have right now is 100% a reflection of the awesome work Bird did as GM over the last few seasons.
                          NBA Champion (x3)
                          NBA MVP (x3)
                          Dream Team Olympic Gold Medalist
                          Coach of the Year
                          Executive of the Year

                          As Bill Simmons calls him, "Basketball Jesus."

                          Everyone has their flaws / mistakes, he certainly is no exception, but his basketball resume is truly legendary.

                          Oh, and if not for him I would have lost my camera's lens cap at a STH function a few years back as well. He had the eye to spot it in a low-lighting setting and was nice enough to tell me right away.

                          Oh, and that small bit where watching his highlights as a youngster made me first fall in love with basketball and thus later helped draw me in as a die hard when he started coaching, which in turn put me in position to want to create a certain web forum to talk about the team later on.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                            Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                            One of the worst wing combinations in the league.



                            did someone say that a while back or something?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                              Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                              I say this in complete honesty, I think Miami is much more scared of us than we are of them.
                              Most teams only have 1 or 2 guys who don't bow to the Heat, we have Lance, West, Danny, and Tyler. I'm still trying to figure out Paul, he is definitely trying to be buddy buddy with Lebron, but he at least is bringing it on the court. Roy well I don't know he's just Roy so sometimes I think he is spooked by his own shadow.


                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                                Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                                One of the worst wing combinations in the league.



                                Hey, it was a fair question to ask back in November.

                                No one would ask now, though.

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