Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    No fear.

    In Indiana it’s not just a slogan on a motocross T-shirt.

    They may out play us, they may win a series against us and they certainly get all of the calls against us but no one can say that our Indiana Pacers are afraid of the Miami Heat.

    Call it familiarity, call it contempt or just call it we match up pretty well against them but one way or the other they no longer hold the aura of conquering warriors to us.

    It’s just a win and will count no more in the standings than any other win will at the end of the regular season but with future playoff implications in mind I think it does say that if the Heat & Pacers play again in the playoffs the Heat will not walk away unscathed if they walk away at all.

    I’ll give David West his props later in the grade section but I would be remiss if I didn’t at least mention right here & right now that he was a human Juggernaut tonight and nobody was going to stop him and God knows they tried everything and everyone to do so including what I consider almost a mugging by Shane Battier. So even though I’m going to talk about a couple of other players here understand I place David West first and foremost as the reason we won this game.

    But because everybody knows how good he did & there have been lots of articles already written about it I want to focus here on a couple of other players who IMO were very instrumental in this victory.

    Lance Stephenson is in the head’s of the Miami Heat. Yes this has the potential to backfire and blow up in our faces but for tonight anyway it blew up all over the Heat and frankly was fun to watch. Just on a physical level Lance now matches up very well vs. Dwayne Wade & IMO for the most part all game out played him. He’s a little taller than Wade, he might even be stronger than Wade which is something that Dwayne is not used to facing at the two position and most shockingly for Wade he is faster than him. In fact Wade used to be called the flash but watching him go against Lance it looks more like he needs some geritol as he is left in the dust.

    Lance is not afraid to take it at Wade & then on defense he actually can not only stay with him but because of his arm length he both affects his shot and often causes him to pass wide to avoid Lance’s hands.

    But I think the most impressive thing was on defense when Wade would make it into the paint area and Lance was still in front of him not once did he bite on a Dwayne Wade pump fake and stood his ground causing great consternation for Wade and on more than one occasion forcing a bad pass late in the shot clock.

    Also while I know that it is immature and we don’t want this to be too much of a habit I love the fact that Lance does not bow at the feet of or idolize either Wade or James.
    This truly bothers them btw and I mean it really bothers them.

    With LeBron he is not used to everyone not sucking up to him and trying to be his best friend. This btw is an old Michael Jordan trick that he was famous for. He would go out of his way to befriend the star player of the other team if he could and then they would not go at him as hard on the court. Many people over the years have said this was part of the problem with both Barkley & Ewing was that they couldn’t see Michael was trying to take them out of their game.

    There was one player that Michael never made friends with and there was one player who was not afraid to go at him. Yes every Pacers fan knows his name and we see his jersey hanging in the rafters.

    Lance isn’t anywhere like that but in some ways it’s all the same, Lance has nothing compelling him not to take it at those two each and every game and frankly I think it takes them out of their game. Also its not like he’s a scrub who’s sitting on the bench not playing like he did last year, he did this while dropping 15 on them and just suffocating Wade with defense. He seemed to take it a little easier on Allen the few times he was rotated on him but I think that is more because he looks at him like a Grandpa figure.

    Okay I won’t lie either, I hate Wade. I didn’t used to but these past two years he has turned into a whiney little runt who looks to the referees each and every time he has the ball. Way to often they reward his whining with free throws so that gets under my skin as well. So I won’t deny that Lance giving him an earful while beating them on the court gives me great pleasure.

    So in honor of all Pacers fans who have suffered under the oppressive thumb of Dwayne Wade I say thank you Lance Stephenson you and your potty mouth are doing God’s work.

    Next player who is not getting nearly enough accolades for his contributions is Tyler “wrecking ball” Hansbrough.

    When Frank took out West mid way through the first quarter I was gritting my teeth cursing that once again Frank was using the damned bench when things were balancing on a precipice.

    But Tyler not only made me eat my words he made Rashard Lewis eat his elbows and armpits. The Lewis experiment lasted a whole 1:40 and then it was time to bring in Shane “the molester” Battier. They might as well have given Shane his old Duke uniform because Tyler just proceeded to light him up like it was an old ACC game.

    On defense he was right in their jerseys and he knocked the tattoos off of the Bird Man as he drove to the basket. To Bird Man’s credit he hit the shot but believe me he felt that and will still be feeling it tomorrow. Also Tyler was very engaged in this game, when he came to the bench he was as animated as I’ve ever seen him and was hitting high fives with everyone & he about dislocated George Hill’s shoulder if not actually ripping off his arm when they clapped hands.

    I’m telling you to have your starting power forward destroy them and then have his backup come in and not let down at all is more than an advantage, that’s winning basketball right there and it was something that was missing during our playoff run last season.

    To compare in 12 min Tyler had 11 points & 3 rebounds Chris Bosh in 32 min had 13 points and 2 rebounds.

    I’ll be brief in my praise for Frank but I just won’t fee right not talking about him. First I am always reminded of a conversation I had with a former member of PS&E when Frank first took over the team. He told me that down towards the end of that season that the entire sales staff was summoned to a meeting with Frank Vogel, which he thought was odd. He said that they all set through a session complete with power points and video of how Frank had a plan to beat the Miami Heat when the met in the playoffs. He said he had charts laid out and pointed out weaknesses on both teams that should be exploited. Of course we ended up playing the Bulls that year so it was a moot point. But I have always wondered if Frank being prepared back then hasn’t helped them each and every game we play them to get better and better to the point now that we have no fear of them.

    Second why we haven’t talked about this more before now is beyond me. After struggling for a couple of games out west Frank Vogel has a long meeting with Lance Stephenson. Does he yell at him? Does he belittle him? Does he just relegate him to the bench?

    No to all three, instead of berating him he tells him how valuable he has been to the team and how badly the team needs him. Lo & behold Lance responds with arguably the best stretch of games of his young career.

    I don’t know that anything else really needs to be said about that as it speaks for itself.

    I know this; Slick is in another level and will always be. He’s a legend a champion and frankly to anybody who is above the age of 30 who has lived in Indiana he is Mr. Pacer basketball. I’m not sure Frank can ever reach that height and it’s unfair to ever ask him to.

    But everyone else? Honestly I don’t know that we have ever had a better overall coach. As I’ve said before he is not the tactician that Brown or Carlisle was and he doesn’t command the respect from the players that Bird does but he is a better tactician than Bird and he has earned both the respect and admiration of the player that neither Brown nor Carlisle had.

    We truly are blessed to have one of the best coaches in the NBA.

    Also can we talk draft value for a min? Our starting shooting guard who IMO outplayed their starting shooting guard was a second round pick, his backup who came in and gave you a few quality min. even though he is a rookie was also drafted in the 2nd round. Roy Hibbert was a low first round pick & Tyler was a late lottery pick. Only our star player was picked in the top 10 and he was number 10. I’m not looking at where players on our team were drafted by other teams just ours. But really look at the value we are getting for modest investment. If you draft with purpose and do your homework you can get good players outside the lottery.

    Okay let’s do some grades.

    David West: A++

    B.A.M.F. to the extreme. There was not one weak part to his game tonight; he was efficient from the floor hitting 12-15 shots and all 6 of his free throws. He would have had a couple more assists if Hibbert didn’t bobble an easy dunk and Lance lose a perfectly thrown pass. But most impressive was the fact that even though he was very active on the defensive end he did not have one single foul called on him and he never turned the ball over. What we witnessed this night was not so much a good basketball game but a symphony put on by a maestro. Whatever accolades you want to heap on him for this game add two more and call it a night because this was as perfect a game as you will ever see.

    Paul George: B+

    BTW that is not a bad grade, not by a long shot when you are guarding the best player in the world. He had several impressive shots from the floor and as always he was a disruptor on the defensive end. The Heat were keying on him defensively and making it hard for him to dribble but for the most part he was able to handle it and he was responsible for probably the most important play of the game when in the 4th quarter he dove to the ground and somehow managed to throw the ball out around Wade to a sprinting Lance Stephenson for a momentum crushing fast break layup.

    Roy Hibbert: C-

    Tale of two halves basically. First half was an F and he was all but useless out there. Second half was much more productive and in fact for about 5 min. I actually remembered that he was 7’2” on the offensive end as he actually dunked the ball. He didn’t get an A for that second half but I’m feeling generous and will round this up to a C- for him.

    Lance Stephenson: A

    I’ve already given him his accolades above but it’s worth mentioning Dude hit 2-3 from downtown on the Heat. If anyone had said that we would win the season series vs. the Heat and Lance Stephenson would be a large part of the reason why we would have had them committed. I only pray that he can continue this when he goes to the 6th man role.
    George Hill: B-

    Hit a couple of big momentum killing three point shots tonight. Played decent defense vs. Chalmers not letting him get to where he wanted on the floor except for a couple of occasions. I really am concerned about his shoulder though, I love George but I’ll just say sometimes he seems a little to comfortable sitting out a game or two here or there. We really need him on Monday vs. the Bulls.

    Tyler Hansbrough: A

    Pretty much said it all above but I’ll just say they had no one on their bench that seemed to have any ability to match up with Tyler. Which makes me wonder why don’t they use Anthony anymore? He was a factor last year in the playoffs against us.

    Orlando Johnson: B

    Pure, that is the only thing I can think of to describe his shot. I can envision this guy actually working his way into being a solid rotational player in the next couple of years. Again more praise for Frank, using the Mad Ants to get him some time on the floor has IMO already paid dividends.

    Ian Mahinmi: B-

    The Heat don’t have a single decent center on their team, we have two. This wasn’t Ian’s strongest game but still you can see his value when we play the Heat as he is just bigger and more athletic than any of their big men. I always poo poo’d the idea that Ian would be that much different than Lou but that lasted till I saw him in the first pre-season game. Now I believe if we face the Heat in the playoffs Ian is going to be one of the strongest assets we have.

    D.J. Augustine: C+

    In the battle of backup point guards he won. Norris Cole did absolutely nothing. DJ didn’t do much more but he did hit a huge 3 point shot and didn’t totally suck. This is already a vast improvement from earlier this season. He at least hit his technical foul shot which is something that George failed to do earlier.

    Sam Young: C

    Do not underestimate how big it was for Sam to dribble the length of the court, get trapped in a corner and have the vision and presence of mind to hit Tyler Hansbrough for a wide open dunk. Every time the Heat made a run we had an answer and Sam helped in that cause. He did his job tonight and he will get back into the flow of the offense sooner rather than later. In fact with Sam coming back and Danny soon to return I just wonder if Gerald Green will ever get significant min. again this season? He could suppose but somebody in front of him is going to have to slip.

    Enough of this bloviating, it’s time to dance.



    Here is a special message for Dwayne Wade and the rest of the heat.



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  • #2
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    we have beaten the defending champs twice by more than 10 points without Danny Granger. This team is good. Really good.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

      Peck, once again your distaste for non-physical big man let's you be way to harsh on Hibbert (I remember you calling Smits soft until we actually had a meal and they were playing a re-run of a game v knicks I believe and you saw how physical Smits actually was.
      I have a feeling the same is happening here, I watched the game twice just to make sure not to make a fool of myself but I noticed a few

      Bosh scored once all game while Hibbert was in. the rest including his 5 min stretch came v Ian,

      Hibbert was at the very least double teamed all game, though more often tripled, reason West got so many open and uncontested shots, They were all hanging on Hibbert.

      With Hibbert in the game (and this is normal in all games) dribble penetrations is nearly non-existent, there's a reason for that, it's him.
      Until Bosh had his 5 minutes going 4 - 4 he was 1 - 7 his 4 - 4 thereafter came against Ian, and Hibbert came in and Bosh was never heard of the rest of the game

      A lot of shots we get are there because most teams we play feel they need at least 2 defenders on Hibbert, so they're a man short on the shot covers.
      I know he misses bunnies, but most of the time he picks them up and still makes them, tips are counted and in all honesty I think that is silly, tips are usually contested and in the mix with 3 or 4 other players, it's not like going up all alone, having time to A: time the tip and B: aim the tip instead you have 3 guys jumping in on you whilst trying to tip a ball back in the net.
      Finally he gets fouled a lot that is not called, they allow him going up but they also ignore a whole load of holding, boxing grabbing pushing and other stuff that could so easily be called.

      He really does a lot more and means a lot more to the team than your grades make it out to be.
      So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

      If you've done 6 impossible things today?
      Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

        Peck, all points well taken. But with all due respect, one of the things I was looking forward to most during the game was your impending paean to the bandwagon Heat fans making their attendance known, and I feel your Odd Thoughts tho morning is somehow incomplete without at least a couple of lines from you in their honour.
        "I mean, you'd walk into our dressing room and run into Mel Daniels holding a .45 -- it makes you wonder."

        Bob Netolicky

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

          So I won’t deny that Lance giving him an earful while beating them on the court gives me great pleasure.

          So in honor of all Pacers fans who have suffered under the oppressive thumb of Dwayne Wade I say thank you Lance Stephenson you and your potty mouth are doing God’s work.
          Peck, can you or someone give some details? You must have seen and heard a lot more than we could watching on TV. I saw Lance slap the ball out of Lebron's hands while he complaining and delaying our fast break (which pi$$ed off the chosen one), but that was about it.
          "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

            Great write per usual Peck.

            I wanted to evaluate this game sort of backwards by actually evaluating the Heat's performance, but real quick wanted to back up what Able said about Roy. He's exactly right. Roy defensively tonight was just killer. It won't show in the numbers. But every dribble penetration was stopped by him. Everyone. It's really incredible. I mean Roy is one of the slowest players on the court, so for him to do so good with his help defense and his rotations means he has to see plays happen before they actually happen if that makes sense. He's so good at it. He's truly an elite defensive presence. He's getting so good that I think his shot blocking is actually going down, because rarely do opponents have good looks at the rim. (the Tyson Chandler effect, one of the reasons he never gets block shots). Roy wasn't the best rebounder, but defensively tonight I thought he was stunning. Maybe I'm wrong but maybe someone else can enlighten all of us. Anywho-

            So I wanted to talk about the Heat specifically because I don't think they're the same team as they were last year. They seem good defensively but not the type of defense that they're capable of. I think the Heat should be elite defending. And they're simply poor rebounding the ball. Doesn't matter how good your best player is, if you don't rebound the ball, and you don't play defense, you're going to struggle against some good teams. It's one of the reasons I think the Heat went from having a relatively good matchup against the Pacers last year, to having a horrible matchup with them this year. I think the Heat can fix some of their problems, so it won't be the same in the playoffs but as of right now, the Pacers are a nightmare matchup. Great defense with strong rebounding is a recipe for disaster for them.

            I think it is worth noting, that one of the reasons why you never put too much faith in a single victory is that you don't always see the same team every game. It's a long season and teams go into funks. When the Pacers lost to the Jazz a week ago, it didn't mean the Jazz out played them. More of the reason was the Pacers just played some bad ball.

            Well I think there is something to that with the Heat tonight. I mean the Pacers did play outstanding ball for sure, but the Heat really struggled in some areas that they won't in the future. Their three point shooting for instance. While most of the night the Pacers did a good job limiting open looks, (the Heat only got 14 shots up, and a couple of those were late clock situations), of the 12 looks the Heat did have, I think they were some really good looks. Some really good looks the Heat didn't convert. Ray Allen missed at least one WIDE OPEN three that he just won't miss in the future. And Shane had a couple looks that I thought normally he'd make. I'm simply saying that could easily be the difference in 6 additional points for the Heat and that really is a huge difference.

            Moving on, I don't think the Heat did a good enough job getting Bosh involved. He can stretch the defense, and make slower defenders like West and Roy pay. Again, in the future, I don't think the Heat will make that mistake again. Bosh will have much more opportunities in the PnR, as well as opportunities to really stretch the defense and take West/Roy out of their comfort zone.

            I'd love to hear the defensive numbers of the heat with Joel Anthony on the court versus him off from last season. Maybe I'm wrong, but on the court I think he makes them much better. He's a stud shot blocker, and although not the best rebounder, it doesn't matter as much because he seems to do an excellent job defensively. Yet this season he isn't given a chance to play. I think they're making a mistake.

            Right now, the heat aren't where they should be on defense because they have an undersized PF and an undersized center. I think this is why they're not playing the elite ball they are capable of. Are they winning a lot? Sure but they appear to have a lot more weaknesses on this years team. If they don't fix that? Then even if they do make it out of the East, (which I wouldn't bet on under any circumstances) they'll get crushed by whatever team comes out of the West. Again, I don't think the Heat are the same team as they were last year. The nice thing for them is during the season you can really work at fixing your problems and by the time the playoffs come around, you can fix some of those problems. I think there is a good chance that the Heat can do that, but as of right now? Not so sure I consider them as good as the Spurs, OKC and the Clippers. Note- this is recognizing that they are still the favorites out of the East, but I think this has to do with the relative weakness of the East versus the greatness of Miami.

            With all that, I think what I'm really getting at is the Heat aren't playing the best ball recently, and the season on the whole they aren't exactly playing the ball that they are capable of. Come playoff time they will have probably made the necessary adjustments so we must be aware of that.

            Edit - I don't know why I can't just write a couple sentences in a response like normal people. ^All that^ Yeesh.
            Last edited by mattie; 02-02-2013, 08:29 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

              There is no recap on the internet of pacers game like your odd thoughts. Thanks so much!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                Now that I've finished my relentless ramblings on the Heat, I wanted to talk about the Pacers.

                I believe the Pacers are a horrible matchup to the Heat this year mainly for two reasons: While virtually equal in talent to last year's team, the difference is this team has a truly GREAT defense. World class. I love defense because if you play great defense, at any point you can beat any team. Put it this way- The last team any of the top contenders want to face this year is Indiana or Memphis. They'll lock you up, and if they get hot enough offensively, they're going to win and there is nothing you can do about it.

                The second reason is David West. I was so disappointed with West last year during the playoffs because despite the fact that he played "good" statistically, I didn't feel he played well at all. The reason I felt so strongly about this is I don't think there is anybody outside of LBJ and possibly Joel Anthony that have any business defending West. Haslem is a strong defender but he's too small. Battier should get beat like a rented mule by West. This game we showed why Indiana will cause a ton of problems for the Heat if they meet in the playoffs. West will absolutely abuse their frontline. ANd that is what is so important in playoff games is taking advantage of matchups. West has shown that he's now fully healthy, and if you give him a bad matchup? He'll crush you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                  as good as it is to beat the Heat on any given night - I still can't call these victories as a measuring stick - we all know come playoff time, their game plan will pretty much switch to a two-man team of LeBron and Wade. Our defense is still showing the weakness signs when these two decide to go for their floaters which are pretty hard to guard on any circumstances.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                    What you call "immaturity" from Lance, I call "swagger"
                    Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                      Originally posted by able View Post
                      Peck, once again your distaste for non-physical big man let's you be way to harsh on Hibbert (I remember you calling Smits soft until we actually had a meal and they were playing a re-run of a game v knicks I believe and you saw how physical Smits actually was.
                      I have a feeling the same is happening here, I watched the game twice just to make sure not to make a fool of myself but I noticed a few

                      Bosh scored once all game while Hibbert was in. the rest including his 5 min stretch came v Ian,

                      Hibbert was at the very least double teamed all game, though more often tripled, reason West got so many open and uncontested shots, They were all hanging on Hibbert.

                      With Hibbert in the game (and this is normal in all games) dribble penetrations is nearly non-existent, there's a reason for that, it's him.
                      Until Bosh had his 5 minutes going 4 - 4 he was 1 - 7 his 4 - 4 thereafter came against Ian, and Hibbert came in and Bosh was never heard of the rest of the game

                      A lot of shots we get are there because most teams we play feel they need at least 2 defenders on Hibbert, so they're a man short on the shot covers.
                      I know he misses bunnies, but most of the time he picks them up and still makes them, tips are counted and in all honesty I think that is silly, tips are usually contested and in the mix with 3 or 4 other players, it's not like going up all alone, having time to A: time the tip and B: aim the tip instead you have 3 guys jumping in on you whilst trying to tip a ball back in the net.
                      Finally he gets fouled a lot that is not called, they allow him going up but they also ignore a whole load of holding, boxing grabbing pushing and other stuff that could so easily be called.

                      He really does a lot more and means a lot more to the team than your grades make it out to be.


                      Look, he offers a lot defensively. That has been said a lot of times and is a reason why he saves some face this season. But a lot sound like excuses. Contested tips? Don't know about that. Of course some of them are gonna be difficult but some of them have also been ridiculously easy for a 7"2 center to miss them. Plus he has been right under the basket attempting those. Regarding the double teams. Can't recall many of them from last night tbh but again does not excuse his game on the offensive end all season long and the first half of yesterday's match. He was much much better during the second half though where he grabbed his whole points and rebounds.
                      Yeap, he had that much of a great game in the first half where he had a big fat zero in every stat line bar one foul and one turnover....
                      Never forget

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                        A glorious, glorious win. And a glorious write up. Shut down the Star and print this instead.
                        This space for rent.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                          Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                          A glorious, glorious win. And a glorious write up. Shut down the Star and print this instead.
                          I don't post much after games as I'm pretty sure that Peck will say what I was meaning to say, only better. Great to read after victories and a million times better than reading national media after we lose.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                            I say this in complete honesty, I think Miami is much more scared of us than we are of them.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

                              Originally posted by mattie View Post
                              . . . Moving on, I don't think the Heat did a good enough job getting Bosh involved. He can stretch the defense, and make slower defenders like West and Roy pay. Again, in the future, I don't think the Heat will make that mistake again. Bosh will have much more opportunities in the PnR, as well as opportunities to really stretch the defense and take West/Roy out of their comfort zone. . .
                              Give this one to Frank and a very simple, very slick piece of coaching. At the start of the game, Miami came out playing well. Roy had a lot of trouble covering Bosh and was giving up warmup jump shots to Bosh and was being pulled out from under the basket and wasn't being a force on defense. Frank called a time out, switched David to Bosh and Roy to Haslem. Problem solved. Giving up those jump shots to Haslem was OK. He can't shoot. David can guard Bosh in the post or on the floor. Problem solved. Roy can stay under the basket and clog the paint on defense. Problem solved.

                              Just a real nice piece of coaching by Frank [or whoever].

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X