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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Okay, so add inthe Foster. That goes back to the Donnie years. Even if we agreed its on Larry, that was how long ago? If he wasnt getting the job done the list of examples would be better than some non-issue mistakes scattered throughout his entire tenure.

    They're so small in the grand scheme of things, it looks like nit picking.

    EDIT: I had edited my post bt it looks like you quoted it first. I just don't think foster/Jim's option/ pendergraph are significant in any way. Jrue not getting picked over Tyler is the real head scratcher though.
    Last edited by Since86; 02-02-2013 at 06:13 PM.

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  3. #77
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    You know what trade makes sense for two teams at the moment? Bosh for KG, Celtics get younger and Miami gets a huge piece that could help them win Championships in the next two years while saving them money.
    That would be an interesting development after the way KG treated Ray Allen after he left for Miami.

    I think Bosh for Pau Gasol would be more help though, and a good trade for both teams. The trade would work as is too.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 02-02-2013 at 06:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    That would be an interesting development after the way KG treated Ray Allen after he left for Miami.

    I think Bosh for Pau Gasol would be more help though, and a good trade for both teams. The trade would work as is too.
    If I'm LA I offer Dwight for Bosh. For whatever reason or likely reason(s) he's not his usual self, and he can easily bolt on you. Keep the guy who helped you win two titles, put him at center where he'll thrive in a 4-out D'Antoni offense, and let Bosh hug the perimeter like he already prefers to do. And for Miami, they need a Dwight (even this version) a lot more than they need a Bosh. And we know Pat Riley respects the use of a good center.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    HAHAHAHA... Lance posted this on facebook...




    I'm rollin' here ..... LMMFAO!
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    After an impressive win, we're having a pissing contest as to which GM has ****ed this team up?

    I love this place sometimes.

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  9. #81
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    You might want to re-think that comment. I have more respect for Bird the FO guy than I use to, but please don't act like Bird hasn't made any mistakes. That every move Bird has done has been perfect. We all know how I feel about Bird picking up JOB's 4th year TO at the beginning of the 3rd year. Same applies to the last 2 contracts Bird gave to Foster. Neither have anything to do with Bird the player.

    Picking up an injured Pendergraph wasn't a good move either. I realize he's a 12-15 bench sitter, but that's not what Bird invisioned when signing him. I'd bring up drafting Chumlee, not impressed with the pick nor what little I've seen him play, but it's to early to say yea or nay.

    Did Bird create a really nice team? Yes, kudos to Mr. Bird. But lets not make out the reason others don't care for Bird is that others didn't like him as a player. That's pretty weak! How could someone not like watching Larry Bird the player play the game of BB?

    Plus, I believe Walsh added a piece or 2 to this stud team.
    not every move a GM makes is going to be perfect. there are alot of good moves that Bird made one at a time to complete this "stud" team as you stated in your post.

    Bird is the one who got the Pacers out of the financial cluster we were in and is responsible for even giving Walsh an opportunity to have the ability to pickup Mahinmi. This is clearly Larry Birds team.

    I dont know who anyone thinks the Pacers were going to pickup as coach while we waited out the Murphy and other bad contracts. There was no reason to bring in an average coach while the young team began to improve. By the way, im pretty sure Brian Shaw signing was a very solid move. In fact im sure that Brian Shaw will not be on the pacers bench next season unfortunately.

    The move in re-signing Foster as a criticism of Bird is as WEAK as it gets in my opinion. Foster was worth every penny. Pendy is problem a KP move. Regardless, the NBA gave Bird Exec for a reason and you were witness of it again last night.

  10. #82
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    If I'm LA I offer Dwight for Bosh. For whatever reason or likely reason(s) he's not his usual self, and he can easily bolt on you. Keep the guy who helped you win two titles, put him at center where he'll thrive in a 4-out D'Antoni offense, and let Bosh hug the perimeter like he already prefers to do. And for Miami, they need a Dwight (even this version) a lot more than they need a Bosh. And we know Pat Riley respects the use of a good center.
    That's a better idea, and I thought of it but I don't think Jim Buss is smart enough to get rid of Dwight. If fact instead of the Lakers trading Dwight for Bosh I would trade him to New Jersey for Lopez and a combination of either picks, or Johnson or Wallace. Don't know if NJ would do that now or not though.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Now that I've finished my relentless ramblings on the Heat, I wanted to talk about the Pacers.

    I believe the Pacers are a horrible matchup to the Heat this year mainly for two reasons: While virtually equal in talent to last year's team, the difference is this team has a truly GREAT defense. World class. I love defense because if you play great defense, at any point you can beat any team. Put it this way- The last team any of the top contenders want to face this year is Indiana or Memphis. They'll lock you up, and if they get hot enough offensively, they're going to win and there is nothing you can do about it.

    The second reason is David West. I was so disappointed with West last year during the playoffs because despite the fact that he played "good" statistically, I didn't feel he played well at all. The reason I felt so strongly about this is I don't think there is anybody outside of LBJ and possibly Joel Anthony that have any business defending West. Haslem is a strong defender but he's too small. Battier should get beat like a rented mule by West. This game we showed why Indiana will cause a ton of problems for the Heat if they meet in the playoffs. West will absolutely abuse their frontline. ANd that is what is so important in playoff games is taking advantage of matchups. West has shown that he's now fully healthy, and if you give him a bad matchup? He'll crush you.
    While our talent is similar it is inarguable that we're realizing said talent more fully than last season. West, George and Lance didn't become more talented overnight, however, that doesn't change the fact that they are simply playing at a different level than last season. Thus the expectation that we're significantly better than last season provided Granger is nearly his usual self.

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  13. #84
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by daschysta View Post
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    While our talent is similar it is inarguable that we're realizing said talent more fully than last season. West, George and Lance didn't become more talented overnight, however, that doesn't change the fact that they are simply playing at a different level than last season. Thus the expectation that we're significantly better than last season provided Granger is nearly his usual self.
    I think people really need to consider how young some of our players are.
    As they age and gain experience they have gotten better. Plus PG and Lance WANT to get better.
    That desire is hard to quantify but it is huge when combined with talent.
    This team is good but it is going to get better.
    {o,o}
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Okay, so add inthe Foster. That goes back to the Donnie years. Even if we agreed its on Larry, that was how long ago? If he wasnt getting the job done the list of examples would be better than some non-issue mistakes scattered throughout his entire tenure.

    They're so small in the grand scheme of things, it looks like nit picking.

    EDIT: I had edited my post bt it looks like you quoted it first. I just don't think foster/Jim's option/ pendergraph are significant in any way. Jrue not getting picked over Tyler is the real head scratcher though.

    I could be wrong, if I am please correct me, but I believe Walsh was gone when Bird gave Foster a 2 year 12.6 contract.

    Not picking Holiday is not even close to JOB and Foster blunders. I saw, I believe last year, a tv interview of Bird when he said he should have drafted Rondo. I respected him for admitting it. Now if he'll just admit, he should have re-signed Jack. Yes, I consider that a miscue by Bird. Just had to throw it in. LOL.

  16. #86

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    After an impressive win, we're having a pissing contest as to which GM has ****ed this team up?

    I love this place sometimes.


    NO ONE has said ANY GM ****ed up this team. Only that every Bird decision hasn't been gold like some seem to feel. Please read more carefully!

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  18. #87
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    NO ONE has said ANY GM ****ed up this team. Only that every Bird decision hasn't been gold like some seem to feel. Please read more carefully!
    I dont think anyone feels that way. they just think Bird did a hell of a job, and he did.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    not every move a GM makes is going to be perfect. there are alot of good moves that Bird made one at a time to complete this "stud" team as you stated in your post.

    Bird is the one who got the Pacers out of the financial cluster we were in and is responsible for even giving Walsh an opportunity to have the ability to pickup Mahinmi. This is clearly Larry Birds team.

    I dont know who anyone thinks the Pacers were going to pickup as coach while we waited out the Murphy and other bad contracts. There was no reason to bring in an average coach while the young team began to improve. By the way, im pretty sure Brian Shaw signing was a very solid move. In fact im sure that Brian Shaw will not be on the pacers bench next season unfortunately.

    The move in re-signing Foster as a criticism of Bird is as WEAK as it gets in my opinion. Foster was worth every penny. Pendy is problem a KP move. Regardless, the NBA gave Bird Exec for a reason and you were witness of it again last night.


    I wasn't the one who 1st used the term "stud team." Now, was I? I just responded using what someone else posted.

    So Bird now gets credit for Mahinmi. Then he gets credit for Green and Augustin too. You can't have it both ways.

    It was obvious going into the 3rd year that JOB had lost the team. Do you not remember these conversations here on PD? Why pick up his TO only to fire him half way thru the season?

    In my opinion, Foster's 2 year contract and last years contract aren't WEAK. They were blunders.

    I'm sorry I can't be a Bird apologist like so many others.

    Has Bird put together a good team? ABSOLUTELY!!! Do I wish he was PBO instead of Walsh? HE11 YES! If Bird doesn't return, will I be heartbroken? Sorry, no. As a matter of fact, I'll be surprised if Bird does come back. I really don't care one way or the other if Bird returns. AGAIN, I like the team Bird has assembled.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Even they have their Richard Jefferson deals.
    Ha. Well played.

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    Member SycamoreKen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Not once but twice.
    but then fixed it by trading him for Jack. Still not sure why Golden State made that deal.

  23. #91

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    I dont think anyone feels that way. they just think Bird did a hell of a job, and he did.

    The thanks for that post disagrees.

  24. #92

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen View Post
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    but then fixed it by trading him for Jack. Still not sure why Golden State made that deal.

    Jack had become a PITA, and they wanted him out... even at that cost.

  25. #93
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Jack had become a PITA, and they wanted him out... even at that cost.
    I can understand that. Guess both teams won in a sense.

  26. #94
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I wasn't the one who 1st used the term "stud team." Now, was I? I just responded using what someone else posted.

    So Bird now gets credit for Mahinmi. Then he gets credit for Green and Augustin too. You can't have it both ways.

    It was obvious going into the 3rd year that JOB had lost the team. Do you not remember these conversations here on PD? Why pick up his TO only to fire him half way thru the season?

    In my opinion, Foster's 2 year contract and last years contract aren't WEAK. They were blunders.

    I'm sorry I can't be a Bird apologist like so many others.

    Has Bird put together a good team? ABSOLUTELY!!! Do I wish he was PBO instead of Walsh? HE11 YES! If Bird doesn't return, will I be heartbroken? Sorry, no. As a matter of fact, I'll be surprised if Bird does come back. I really don't care one way or the other if Bird returns. AGAIN, I like the team Bird has assembled.
    Please read what i stated. Bird gets credit for being patient and staying the course with the 3 year plan. The team he inherited was awful. Walsh/Bird FO did not work. Bird in charge solo assembled a team of solid players. He made good trades. JO for Hibbert, Nesto (cleared 10M in cap room), TJ Ford; Darren Collison deal. Was close to acquiring OJ Mayo twice. Drafted well: Paul George, Hibbert, Lance, Hansbrough.

    Again, take another look at the team Bird inherited and the cap situation. Hill, George, Granger, West, Hibbert, Stephenson, Hansbrough, (Collison - who netted us Mahinmi). Bird built a core as he said he would. I would have liked to have seen Bird finish it. Who knows if that will happen.

    The team Bird constructed is much better than the one he began with as President of Basketball Operations.

    The Obrien and Foster reasons you have give are not relevant to me and worthy of discussion. I can give you Holliday, Rhondo, Lawson. Point Gaurd is the only position Bird missed on. I think I can take that and be very content with the current Pacers team.

    As I stated, His track record regarding the draft, trades, taking over a team suffering from the brawl and a lukewarm fanbase.

    This team could easily still be in the bottom of the pack and suck. Were being spoke of as a contender by major mainstream media reports. This is not NY, LA, MIA, CHI, BOS, DALLAS.

    Guys, this is not the Reggie Miller NBA. The Pacers are an afterthought for the most part in the nba. Appreciate this because like i said, we could still be stuck in mediority and going nowhere. instead we have the following


    Granger, West, Hibbert, George, Lance, Hill, Hansbrough, Mahinmi, Orlando Johnson

    this core will keep us competitive. win us 50 games for the next 5 seasons.

    Kudos Legend

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  28. #95
    Shooting for the Moon Day-V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    NO ONE has said ANY GM ****ed up this team. Only that every Bird decision hasn't been gold like some seem to feel. Please read more carefully!
    Okay fine, after an impressive win against one of the best teams in the league, we're having a pissing contest about just HOW awesome Larry Bird was at his job in building this team, and making sure to point out each and every mistake he made.

    God forbid people just sit back and enjoy the ride for a little bit. All I'm sayin'.

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  30. #96
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    To the fear question for a moment. I want to make certain that everyone understands that I am saying we do not fear the Heat. I am not saying the Heat fear the Pacers.

    I think that this is what makes for such a compelling series between the two, there is no fear from either team & I just have to believe that this is at the very least disappointing to the Heat. I think one of the tools that they have is that their aura overwhelms some teams even if on occasion it doesn't.

    I just believe that not only do we not fear the Heat we want the Heat. Now don't get me wrong the Pacers still respect the Heat (well there may be a question about Lance) but that respect is just because of the talent.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  32. #97
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    there is no fear from either team & I just have to believe that this is at the very least disappointing to the Heat. I think one of the tools that they have is that their aura overwhelms some teams even if on occasion it doesn't.

    I just believe that not only do we not fear the Heat we want the Heat. Now don't get me wrong the Pacers still respect the Heat (well there may be a question about Lance) but that respect is just because of the talent.
    Regarding this important intangible, Vogel apparently gets a lot of credit. He is willing to play the front role of representing that "no fear" mentality. Kind of unusual for coaches, wouldn't you say?

    And the synergy between Vogel and Lance has got to be interesting. On the one hand, Vogel is batting him down and telling him to get in line. On the other hand, you know he secretly loves Lance's irreverent attitude toward the self-proclaimed chosen ones.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  33. #98

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Regarding this important intangible, Vogel apparently gets a lot of credit. He is willing to play the front role of representing that "no fear" mentality. Kind of unusual for coaches, wouldn't you say?

    And the synergy between Vogel and Lance has got to be interesting. On the one hand, Vogel is batting him down and telling him to get in line. On the other hand, you know he secretly loves Lance's irreverent attitude toward the self-proclaimed chosen ones.
    I used to absolutely revere NFL running back Barry Sanders for slowing to a walk in the end zone after leaving half the opposing players' jock straps on the field, then nonchalantly handing the ball to the ref and jogging to the sidelines. Class personified.

    I just might pee my pants if, come playoff time, I see Lance steal the ball from DWade, make an uncontested layup, and nonchalantly hand the ball to the ref and jog to the sidelines as the Heat call a desperation time-out.

    Act like you've been there before.
    Last edited by DrFife; 02-03-2013 at 08:43 AM.
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  35. #99

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I think these two things are related. Miami wanted this game, sure, but they (and specifically their coaching staff) didn't care about it as much as we did. Spo isn't a bad coach; he out-coached Vogel in last year's playoffs. I expect he's saving a few wrinkles for the playoffs, similar to how we waited all year to put Paul George on D.Rose. He doesn't want to show his whole hand yet.

    I'm not saying he didn't want to win the game last night, far from it. It was a bad loss for them. But while LeBron allows for extreme roster and coverage flexibility, I don't expect him to play that card much until the time is right.
    I live in the Heat market and listened to their lengthy pregame radio show with interviews with Spoelstra and others.

    The Heat had circled this game on the calendar. They had EXTENSIVE film review session of our last game with them. They thought they were ready and took us seriously. Not a playoff level of preparation, for sure, but still significant.

    All the better. I think that we ARE in their heads.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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  37. #100

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Heat of the moment

    This is good to know. The Heat came out of the blocks looking like they had made the pregame preparations. The Spoelstra had made a couple of nice adjustments on offense to get Bosh some warm-up jumpers and drag Roy away from the paint. It took Frank about five minutes to see them and fix them. The Heat's ball pressure started early and I don't know if the Pacers did something to counteract it or if the Heat just got tired.

    Good to know the Heat were saying the grapes were sour after the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    I live in the Heat market and listened to their lengthy pregame radio show with interviews with Spoelstra and others.

    The Heat had circled this game on the calendar. They had EXTENSIVE film review session of our last game with them. They thought they were ready and took us seriously. Not a playoff level of preparation, for sure, but still significant.

    All the better. I think that we ARE in their heads.

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