View Poll Results: Of the listed 16 point guards, where do you rank George Hill?

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Thread: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

  1. #1
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    Default Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Here is the list (note that this excludes the injured Derrick Rose and Mo Williams):

    I'll go in order of winning % (top down) as of 11:26PM on January 30th:

    Tony Parker
    Russell Westbrook
    Chris Paul
    Mario Chalmers
    Mike Conley
    Raymond Felton
    Kirk Hinrich
    Stephen Curry
    Ty Lawson
    Deron Williams
    George Hill
    Jeff Teague
    Brandon Jennings
    Jamaal Tinsley
    Jeremy Lin
    Damian Lillard

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Tony Parker
    Russell Westbrook
    Chris Paul

    Mario Chalmers
    Mike Conley
    Raymond Felton
    Kirk Hinrich
    Stephen Curry
    Ty Lawson
    Deron Williams

    George Hill
    Jeff Teague
    Brandon Jennings
    Jamaal Tinsley
    Jeremy Lin
    Damian Lillard

    ~10th until Rose is healthy, though certainly there are teams not listed here with better point guards as well, such as Kyrie, Rondo, and probably Lowry.

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  4. #3

    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Tony Parker
    Russell Westbrook
    Chris Paul

    Mario Chalmers
    Mike Conley
    Raymond Felton
    Kirk Hinrich
    Stephen Curry
    Ty Lawson
    Deron Williams

    Jeff Teague
    Brandon Jennings
    Jamaal Tinsley
    Jeremy Lin
    Damian Lillard

    There are a few younger guys..who when they are at their best, are better than Hill (Lin for example)...but they have yet to be as consistent as Hill and are up and down in their game.

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Tony Parker
    Russell Westbrook
    Chris Paul

    Mario Chalmers
    Mike Conley
    Raymond Felton
    Kirk Hinrich
    Stephen Curry
    Ty Lawson
    Deron Williams

    Jeff Teague
    Brandon Jennings
    Jamaal Tinsley
    Jeremy Lin
    Damian Lillard

    There are a few younger guys..who when they are at their best, are better than Hill (Lin for example)...but they have yet to be as consistent as Hill and are up and down in their game.
    Sorry sook if you are serious about saying Hill is better than Steph Curry I donk know what to say strongly disagree. If we are going for our team I would have him ranked higher than just a best player overall list. Not a big Hill fan as a pg but for our team and how it's built I think he is a great fit.

    for example Jennings is a better talent and player. However I would take Hill over him for our team easily.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Here is the list (note that this excludes the injured Derrick Rose and Mo Williams):

    I'll go in order of winning % (top down) as of 11:26PM on January 30th:

    Tony Parker
    Russell Westbrook
    Chris Paul

    Mario Chalmers
    Mike Conley
    Raymond Felton
    Stephen Curry

    Ty Lawson
    Deron Williams

    George Hill
    Jeff Teague
    Brandon Jennings

    Jamaal Tinsley
    Jeremy Lin
    Damian Lillard
    The bold is DEFINITELY better then GHill at the PG position.

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    I'll be very interested to see if there's any consensus on this after a couple of days.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Sorry sook if you are serious about saying Hill is better than Steph Curry I donk know what to say strongly disagree. If we are going for our team I would have him ranked higher than just a best player overall list. Not a big Hill fan as a pg but for our team and how it's built I think he is a great fit.

    for example Jennings is a better talent and player. However I would take Hill over him for our team easily.
    I'll be honest, I haven't seen Curry play much, possibly the least out of the point guards but when I do see him, he strikes me as a fantastic shooter, whose not that great of a defender and whose turnover prone. Which is where my ranking comes from. (I wasn't ranking by who has the most talent, Hill would be at the bottom of that list..but more along the lines of "if I'm building a team, who would I want as my point.) I could be dead wrong on Curry, but that's my reaction from what I've seen.

    Jennings...Jennings is one that does have more talent than Hill, but I'd never take him on a team if I was trying to win. And I'd much prefer Hill as a third guard, but he does what the Pacers need him to do.

    I do really like Hill's game, I just wouldn't play him at point.

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Curry also has horrible ankle issues, which doesn't make him reliable long term.

    I wasn't a fan of Hill's contract, but so far he's doing alright, but if the Pacers could get a Bledsoe type, I think it would be an improvement.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  10. #9
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Here is the list (note that this excludes the injured Derrick Rose and Mo Williams):

    I'll go in order of winning % (top down) as of 11:26PM on January 30th:

    Tony Parker
    Russell Westbrook
    Chris Paul

    Mario Chalmers
    Mike Conley
    Raymond Felton
    Kirk Hinrich
    Stephen Curry
    Ty Lawson
    Deron Williams
    George Hill
    Jeff Teague
    Brandon Jennings
    Jamaal Tinsley
    Jeremy Lin
    Damian Lillard
    The bold are all better.. I didn't add Damian as I can't really make my mind up on him. Earlier I said he was better. He's pretty good on offense, fun to watch but he's pathetic on defense which has a lot to do with his youth more than anything.

    But anyways, for the people that would suggest Lin, Jennings, and Felton are all better.. what are you smoking?? Felton and Lin flat out suck. Sorry. They just do.

    Jennings? He's a 39% shooter that can't defend anyone. I mean he has a really pretty game, and when you ignore him 95% of the time and see him explode for a nice 30 point game on sportscenter I guess it is easy to think he is a good point guard. UM NO. He's not. He sucks. There are at least 20 other point guards in the league I'd take over Jennings without even thinking twice.

    Indiana fans obsession with a "true" pointguard is also the reason Indiana fans will NEVER be happy with whoever starts at point guard. Because the only guard that would truly make Indiana fans happy is Chris Paul. That's it. Deron Williams, despite being a great passer and shooter wouldn't beause he plays great one game and blows it out the next. Rondo, who pisses Boston fans off on a regular basis wouldn't make Indiana fans happy because he can't shoot even if no one is within 50 feet of him. Russell Westbrook wouldn't make Indiana fans happy because he's no where near what a "true point guard" is (whatever the **** that means anyways). Derrick Rose wouldn't make Indiana fans happy for the same reason.

    George Hill plays very good defense, he does a good job initiating the offense (so long as your opinion of initiating the offense is getting the ball to our scorers in scoring position versus dribbling around for 18 seconds like Nash until someone is open), and he can shoot.

    Sookie suggested Lin on his best day is better than Hill. That's a beautiful fiction, if you're one of the types that just love those true point guard types. (The types that haven't won a championship since Isaiah). This is funny because just on saturday, Hill had what is not an uncommon game for him- 22 points (10-16), 9 rebounds, 8 assists, 1 turnover and two steals to go with defense that Lin could never play in HELL. I would absolutely love to see Lin EVER play a game that good. You won't find it because he never has nor will he EVER have a game that good. He's not talented enough.

    I've got two suggestions for the "I love true point guards crowd." First, get a grip. Your fantasy that NBA offenses need some sort of floor general to work is just WRONG. Exhibit A: OKC doesn't even have a point guard on their team. (Again, if you want to use that ridiculous, FLAWED definition of what a point guard is).

    Second: Appreciate what you have: The Pacers have a very good point guard. He's not a stud. He will have bad games. (Note- every player outside of LBJ/Durant has bad games). He will also have good games, which he has had MANY.

    George Hill actually has it harder than any other Pacer if you consider the following: Roy has played terribly offensively after getting a max contract, he has deserved the criticism. Paul George every other third game has a bad game. Whether it is shooting poorly, or too many turnovers. Why is PG, the future excused yet unless hill throws up 15 and 10 he's criticized????

    A little angry rant yes, but I just saw more than one poster suggest BRANDON JENNINGS is better than George Hill. WOW. That's ridiculous. Dudes a career 39% shooter. He actually recently, temporarily got his shooting just beyond 40%, proud of him, but it'll dip after this short hot streak. The dude chucks, and plays no defense. UGH. So glad we don't have him.
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    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    I would put Jarrett Jack on the list to he is basically a starting pg on the Warriors. Mo Williams is the starter for the Jazz btw.

    but Sook you should watch more GS Curry is the best player on that team. He may not be a true pg but nether is Hill. I would take Curry over Hill without thinking dude is better at almost every part of the game. He also is a lot better defender than he gets credit for. Bad defender is a rap from college IMO he is average lot better since Monta was traded. His offensive game is darn near elite status IMO.

    a Curry, Lance backcourt would be so fun to watch and be really effective. 0

    Bigger question for me is Jack or Hill?

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Curry is amazing. Love his game.

    And I'd take Hill over Jack all day. Love Jack, he's having a great season, easy. I'd take Hill.
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    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Sookie suggested Lin on his best day is better than Hill. That's a beautiful fiction, if you're one of the types that just love those true point guard types. (The types that haven't won a championship since Isaiah). This is funny because just on saturday, Hill had what is not an uncommon game for him- 22 points (10-16), 9 rebounds, 8 assists, 1 turnover and two steals to go with defense that Lin could never play in HELL. I would absolutely love to see Lin EVER play a game that good. You won't find it because he never has nor will he EVER have a game that good. He's not talented enough.
    yea, Jeremy Lin had 38 points, 7 assists, and 2 turnovers against the Spurs. And Lets not forget that month stretch. What people forget about him, is that..this is actually essentially his rookie season. He's barely played before those two months in NYC..and before that in college, he was playing below his competition level. (Against Ivy league teams)

    A "true" point hasn't won since Issiah? really? What are Parker and Rondo...not to mention Fisher is the definition of a floor general..and actually Chalmers is a floor general as well.

    What hasn't won, is an offense designed around a point guard.

  16. #13
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    yea, Jeremy Lin had 38 points, 7 assists, and 2 turnovers against the Spurs. And Lets not forget that month stretch. What people forget about him, is that..this is actually essentially his rookie season. He's barely played before those two months in NYC..and before that in college, he was playing below his competition level. (Against Ivy league teams)

    A "true" point hasn't won since Issiah? really? What are Parker and Rondo...not to mention Fisher is the definition of a floor general..and actually Chalmers is a floor general as well.

    What hasn't won, is an offense designed around a point guard.
    Ok I'll give you Rondo. Parker isn't a true point guard by your definition.

    And Lin can't defend my grandma. What kind of game did Parker have against Lin that game?? 50? Nice that Lin threw up 38, but his offensive contributions are always negated by his production on the other end of the court.

    Edit - All the evidence I need that the true point guard crowd will never be happy with an Indiana starting point- Chalmers and Fishers are "floor generals". That's a joke. Chalmers and Fishers are nothing more than spot up shooters. They don't even play point. That's absurd.

    Edit 2 - Chalmers is apparently a floor general- He averages 7.7 points, 3.4 assists and 1.6 turnovers (compared to Hill's 1.8). WOW.
    Last edited by mattie; 01-31-2013 at 01:04 AM.
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    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  17. #14
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Unless a team started 4 other defensive studs, I don't think there is anyway in hell Lin could ever start for a championship squad.
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    Read it and weep:

    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

  18. #15
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Hill on the other hand would make the following playoff teams better: Miami, New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Boston, Houston, Utah and Denver.
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    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Ok I'll give you Rondo. Parker isn't a true point guard by your definition.

    And Lin can't defend my grandma. What kind of game did Parker have against Lin that game?? 50? Nice that Lin threw up 38, but his offensive contributions are always negated by his production on the other end of the court.
    How would Lin know how to defend against NBA quality point guards? That's my point, he's only played in 111 NBA games, only started in 72 so the other games were essentially "junk games." He's not a natural defender, and has rarely played against NBA quality or even top college players before being in the NBA. How on earth would he know how to defend quality point guards? He's young and developing but he's absolutely proven that he's full of potential and talent. He's got more talent than Hill, and Hill has never had a stretch of play like Lin had. Who knows if he'll actually end up a better player though. (For comparisons sake..Lin would be fifth amongst all rookies in PPG, and first in assists. And amongst sophomores sixth in scoring and first in assists....not exactly sucking)

    Compared to Hill..Lin is averaging about 12 points and 6.5 assists. In Hill's first season he averaged 5 points and 2 assists, in his second season he averaged 11 points and 2 assists. In his third season he averaged 9 points and 2 assists. I think Lin's on a pretty high trajectory. Heck, this season he's averaging 14 points and 5 assists.

    I'm not a huge stats person, but I think it provides a decent comparison and regardless..Lin has already proven he's got a lot of talent. What he hasn't proven is whether he can develop it and be consistent..and work on his weaknesses.
    Last edited by Sookie; 01-31-2013 at 01:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Well after reading that list I feel I should increase his standing some. I didn't see the names at first. I would not trade GHill at this moment for Chalmers, Felton, Hinrich, Conley, Jennings, Teague, Lin, and Tinsley. So damn, I guess I'd have him top 10, lol.
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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    How would Lin know how to defend against NBA quality point guards? That's my point, he's only played in 111 NBA games, only started in 72 so the other games were essentially "junk games." He's not a natural defender, and has rarely played against NBA quality or even top college players before being in the NBA. How on earth would he know how to defend quality point guards? He's young and developing but he's absolutely proven that he's full of potential and talent. He's got more talent than Hill, and Hill has never had a stretch of play like Lin had. Who knows if he'll actually end up a better player though. (For comparisons sake..Lin would be fifth amongst all rookies in PPG, and first in assists. And amongst sophomores sixth in scoring and first in assists....not exactly sucking)

    Compared to Hill..Lin is averaging about 12 points and 6.5 assists. In Hill's first season he averaged 5 points and 2 assists, in his second season he averaged 11 points and 2 assists. In his third season he averaged 9 points and 2 assists. I think Lin's on a pretty high trajectory. Heck, this season he's averaging 14 points and 5 assists.

    I'm not a huge stats person, but I think it provides a decent comparison and regardless..Lin has already proven he's got a lot of talent. What he hasn't proven is whether he can develop it and be consistent..and work on his weaknesses.
    This is Hill's first season playing point guard other than about 20 games last season.

    Hill is longer than Lin, more athletic than Lin, and a much better shooter than Lin. Now I get the idea that he doesn't know how to defend yet. Kind of like Lillard who most likely WILL be a good defender once he knows. My problem with Lin ever being a good defender is he's way to slow and now long enough to ever be a force defensively. I could be wrong I admit, but it is highly doubtful because he doesn't have the physical tools to be anything other than an average defender at best.

    The only part of game Lin has that is better than Hill is his great passing ability. It's the only reason why he's in the league. That's great but isn't important. Westbrook can't pass yet he's a stud. I'm telling you passing ability is an exceptional plus when a player has that ability but entirely unnecessary.

    In fact take two players and compare them: Conley and Westbrook. Conley is a much better defender than Westbrook and he's a phenomenal passer. Conley has the highest efficiency rating in the league in the PnR. So if that true point guard skill is so necessary, shouldn't Conley be a better player than Westbrook?? Conley is even a better shooter than Westbrook! Yet as we all know it's a stupid comparison. Westbrook is a super star. Conley is just a very good point guard but he'll never be a star. (well maybe he will, if he's ever given the greenlight).

    I do like Lin's passing, but I far prefer a players overall game over one particular skill set. Not too mention, I think people take arbitrary assist numbers way too serious, while ignoring such valuable skills a guard can have like recognizing mismatches and giving the ball to the hot hand.

    Hill will never be a high assist man, but he's also the only Pacers player that does the following EVERY game: He recognizes mismatches. Lance Stevenson will have Brandon Jennings on him and Paul George won't recognize it.

    And George Hill also gets the ball to the hot hand no matter what. These are incredibly important skills any good point guard will have. Points such as Chris Paul, Tony Parker and Deron Williams are particular point guards that do this. One of the reasons I love the Chauncey Billups/Hill comparison is this is exactly what Chauncey Billups excelled at. He might not end up with 12 assists but Billups got the ball to Tayshaun when he was hot.

    This has everything to do with understanding the flow of the game, and being an experienced veteran versus being one of those points with eyes in the back of their head.
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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    See one of the reasons why I enjoy Hill as a pointguard as I noted above, there are more to being a point that just high assists.

    Look at that last play with PG running an iso against Denver. This is one of the reasons why I am now a huge fan of the Hill/West PnR in late game situations.

    Remember how angry every was that West didn't immediately get the ball during that possession? He had Gallinari on him!! If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that Hill has done this all season. In that situation, if Hill had the ball, he wouldn't have even run the PnR. He would have backed off and given West the ball. West had the real bad mismatch and would have a great shot at scoring the ball.

    Hill wouldn't have gotten the assist or recognition as making a great play, but he would have made the play that only good point guards make, and most NBA players on a regular basis don't do. Hill does this all the time.

    So even though as PG continues to improve his game, I realize that a PG/West PnR will probably be a great late game play, but I think I'd still rather have Hill in that situation because he always makes the correct decision, even if the play doesn't necessarily play out in our favor. That's a good point guard. It's a great play, and it is one that will never show up in the statistics.
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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    Here is the list (note that this excludes the injured Derrick Rose and Mo Williams):

    I'll go in order of winning % (top down) as of 11:26PM on January 30th:

    Tony Parker
    Russell Westbrook
    Chris Paul

    Mario Chalmers
    Mike Conley
    Raymond Felton
    Kirk Hinrich
    Stephen Curry
    Ty Lawson

    Deron Williams
    Jeff Teague
    Brandon Jennings
    Jamaal Tinsley
    Jeremy Lin
    Damian Lillard (Getting there)
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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    See one of the reasons why I enjoy Hill as a pointguard as I noted above, there are more to being a point that just high assists.

    Look at that last play with PG running an iso against Denver. This is one of the reasons why I am now a huge fan of the Hill/West PnR in late game situations.

    Remember how angry every was that West didn't immediately get the ball during that possession? He had Gallinari on him!! If you were paying attention, you would have noticed that Hill has done this all season. In that situation, if Hill had the ball, he wouldn't have even run the PnR. He would have backed off and given West the ball. West had the real bad mismatch and would have a great shot at scoring the ball.

    Hill wouldn't have gotten the assist or recognition as making a great play, but he would have made the play that only good point guards make, and most NBA players on a regular basis don't do. Hill does this all the time.

    So even though as PG continues to improve his game, I realize that a PG/West PnR will probably be a great late game play, but I think I'd still rather have Hill in that situation because he always makes the correct decision, even if the play doesn't necessarily play out in our favor. That's a good point guard. It's a great play, and it is one that will never show up in the statistics.
    So are you stating that Hill is a good point guard because he would've run the play designed for him and West as opposed to the iso that Vogel called for PG?? That is a coaching decision, not a "talent" decision....

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    let me ask those who are saying Lilliard is better than Hill. if the playoffs started tomorrow, would you rather have Hill or Lilliard. I'd take Hill for experience.

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    let me ask those who are saying Lilliard is better than Hill. if the playoffs started tomorrow, would you rather have Hill or Lilliard. I'd take Hill for experience.
    And the defense. Lillard is still quite rough on that end.

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    Since when did Raymond Felton's fat a$$ become better than G.Hill? He's a better passer, but Dude can't shoot and is a mediocre defender. He's having his first good season since the beginning of the 2010-2011 season, and he's missed quite a few games this year as well.

    Obviously the following players from this list are better
    Tony Parker
    Russell Westbrook
    Chris Paul
    Stephen Curry
    Deron Williams
    Damian Lillard

    You can make an argument for these guys depending on your preference
    Ty Lawson (speed)
    Mike Conley (steals/defense)

    But the rest of these guys aren't as good. Period. Brandon Jennings? Really..... All I'll say is there's a reason Jennings teams normally hover around .500 whereas Hill's teams are normally in the top 3 of the playoff standings.

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    Default Re: Among the starting point guards on teams who are above .500, where do you rank George Hill?

    I'd rank him around eighth, although there's a group of about 13 players I could see him being ranked lower than by the predictably negative crew (we all know who they are).

    BETTER
    Tony Parker
    Russell Westbrook
    Chris Paul
    Stephen Curry
    Deron Williams

    NOT BETTER
    Mario Chalmers
    Kirk Hinrich
    Jamaal Tinsley

    DEBATABLE
    Mike Conley
    Raymond Felton
    Ty Lawson
    George Hill
    Jeff Teague
    Brandon Jennings
    Jeremy Lin
    Damian Lillard


    Lillard, if he progresses like most young players are expected to, will almost certainly pass Hill up in the not-too-distant future, but he's not there yet.

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