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Thread: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    The man is a first class NBA coach and he did a great job in rebuilding the Pacers on the fly..... ...


    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    The man is currently an assistant to a first class NBA coach and he significantly impeded the progress of the great job Larry Bird did rebuilding the Pacers over the course of several long years for myriad reasons exceptionally well known to even most casual observers..... ...
    Hopefully this is what you actually intended to post.

    You must have been having technical difficulties. I am just trying to help.

    Sometimes messages being sent via wireless connections used by those in motorhomes (especially in rural or very densely populated cities filled with skyscrapers) can end up being scrambled or hacked, and when the messages are finally posted they can end up being quite different from the intent of the sender.

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    can't wait to see this v Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    I remember disapproving because of him following JOB every step of his career, assumed he'd be JOB Jr I guess. Thought they should've given Burke the title instead. I know a lot about basketball.

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    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Bottom line is, teams where Westhead and D'Antoni's systems worked had players who supported them. I have yet to hear of a player respecting JOB at all, (In fact, pretty much the most positive review of Jimmy has come from AJ Price...who when prodded to say something negative about JOB...laughs a bit and simply compliments Frank.) but a whole lot of them have openly and pretty aggressively stated their dislike (and not just Pacers players.)

    Do I need to dig out the stuff from Paul Pierce and A. Walker.

    I consider it a dead issue, but some people keep bringing it up.

    Edit: In fact Paul George in a way complimented Jim O'Brien just a few weeks ago. What he said though was positive about Jim O'Brien
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-31-2013 at 10:57 AM.

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    Cool Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Hopefully this is what you actually intended to post.

    You must have been having technical difficulties. I am just trying to help.

    Sometimes messages being sent via wireless connections used by those in motorhomes (especially in rural or very densely populated cities filled with skyscrapers) can end up being scrambled or hacked, and when the messages are finally posted they can end up being quite different from the intent of the sender.
    NO!!! I meant no such thing and please do not change my posts to make it look like I said anything like that. I meant just what I said. My intent was clear as was my message. Are you one of the many who said that JOB would never get another NBA job? Well, he did and it is a good one. JOB carried out Larry Bird's orders with that team. If Bird takes over in Seattle, I would not be surprised to see him bring JOB in as a head coach. He might temper the run and gun with that team but he can do that too..... ...

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    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    NO!!! I meant no such thing and please do not change my posts to make it look like I said anything like that. I meant just what I said. My intent was clear as was my message. Are you one of the many who said that JOB would never get another NBA job? Well, he did and it is a good one. JOB carried out Larry Bird's orders with that team. If Bird takes over in Seattle, I would not be surprised to see him bring JOB in as a head coach. He might temper the run and gun with that team but he can do that too..... ...
    Fair enough.

    Yes, I never thought anyone would have hired him after the abysmal job he did with our young squad. I guess Carlisle is loyal to Celtic pride, also, and might have even felt like JOB was put through the ringer by the Pacers and deserved a chance to redeem himself. Who knows, maybe Carlisle has a long standing relationship with Dr. Jack Ramsay?

    The rigidity of JOB and his system never has changed, and wouldn't if, as you suggest, Larry Bird is hired in Seattle and decides to hire him again out of respect for the loyalty JOB showed him if JOB carried out what must have been Larry Bird's orders to purposely tank that team.

    He also is a Pitino true believer through and through, and the faster a team plays the better he always has liked it regardless if his players have the ability to play that way or not. His belief in increasing the pace of play is second only to his even more staunch belief that floor spacing is created by shooting 3's whether they are going in or not, and approximately as important to him as willfully playing players out of position to create mismatches and driving lanes regardless of the fact that his system becomes easily defended due to its reliance on the MAKING of 3's.

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    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Fair enough.

    Yes, I never thought anyone would have hired him after the abysmal job he did with our young squad. I guess Carlisle is loyal to Celtic pride, also, and might have even felt like JOB was put through the ringer by the Pacers and deserved a chance to redeem himself. Who knows, maybe Carlisle has a long standing relationship with Dr. Jack Ramsay?

    The rigidity of JOB and his system never has changed, and wouldn't if, as you suggest, Larry Bird is hired in Seattle and decides to hire him again out of respect for the loyalty JOB showed him if JOB carried out what must have been Larry Bird's orders to purposely tank that team.

    He also is a Pitino true believer through and through, and the faster a team plays the better he always has liked it regardless if his players have the ability to play that way or not. His belief in increasing the pace of play is second only to his even more staunch belief that floor spacing is created by shooting 3's whether they are going in or not, and approximately as important to him as willfully playing players out of position to create mismatches and driving lanes regardless of the fact that his system becomes easily defended due to its reliance on the MAKING of 3's.
    JOB never made them tank. The Pacers did manage some 30+ win seasons with pathetic rosters. The season with Jarret Jack was actually pretty entertaining. Bird handled the situation the right way and got rid of him at the right time.

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    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Do I need to dig out the stuff from Paul Pierce and A. Walker.

    I consider it a dead issue, but some people keep bringing it up.

    Edit: In fact Paul George in a way complimented Jim O'Brien just a few weeks ago. What he said though was positive about Jim O'Brien
    I said "I have yet to hear" not "it hasn't happened"

    I actually would be pretty interested in hearing what Pierce had to say about O'brien.

  11. #33

    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Fair enough.

    Yes, I never thought anyone would have hired him after the abysmal job he did with our young squad. I guess Carlisle is loyal to Celtic pride, also, and might have even felt like JOB was put through the ringer by the Pacers and deserved a chance to redeem himself. Who knows, maybe Carlisle has a long standing relationship with Dr. Jack Ramsay?

    The rigidity of JOB and his system never has changed, and wouldn't if, as you suggest, Larry Bird is hired in Seattle and decides to hire him again out of respect for the loyalty JOB showed him if JOB carried out what must have been Larry Bird's orders to purposely tank that team.

    He also is a Pitino true believer through and through, and the faster a team plays the better he always has liked it regardless if his players have the ability to play that way or not. His belief in increasing the pace of play is second only to his even more staunch belief that floor spacing is created by shooting 3's whether they are going in or not, and approximately as important to him as willfully playing players out of position to create mismatches and driving lanes regardless of the fact that his system becomes easily defended due to its reliance on the MAKING of 3's.
    JOB actually strikes me as someone who might be a good NBA assistant, if his ego could take it.
    I can see Carlisle wanting perhaps input on ways to "loosen up" his offense a bit. JOB is also very into statistics. So the fact that O'brien has some connections, has some "out of the box" ideas for offense, and knows stats might make him decent for an assistant job. He's not making any decisions...telling Carlisle who to play, suggesting adjustments (or if he is, Carlisle can easily overrule him.)

    It's not a bad idea to have a guy with some unorthodox ideas on your bench to make suggestions. It's probably a bad idea to have him deciding things.

  12. #34
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    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    Loved Vogel from Day 1.

    Didn't like JOB about halfway through his stint, when I realized what was goin on. No, he is not a first-rate NBA coach, and that's why he's not currently an NBA head coach. He's an assistant, to the guy he replaced here. I wept openly in 2007, when it was announced we got rid of Carlisle, and then I cried even more when I learned he was being replaced by JOB. It's almost unfathomable to me to this day that we actually made that move. I still decided to give him a chance, however, and the benefit of the doubt. But he erased that within 2 years.

    I think he has his place in this league, but as a head coach, no. The difference between his mentality and Vogel's is light and day. I used to get mad just watching JOB's interview, throwing his players under the bus... sticking to his ridiculous methodologies instead of putting in place a system that worked best with his players. If you look up "trying to shove a round peg into a square hole", there's a picture of Jim O'Brien.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 01-31-2013 at 01:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Loved Vogel from Day 1.

    Didn't like JOB about halfway through his stint,
    I'm about the same. JOB had a mess to get us through and he did that. We probably won more games than we should have the first two years. By the third year it was obvious he needed to go. I probably wouldn't even care so much about his tenure if it wasn't for the extension he received. It completely defied logic and made me fall into my dark place. Vogel got me out, and for that I am eternally grateful.

    I'm not surprised to see JOB taking an assistant job and I don't expect him to do terrible at it. I think that is what he is. It's his ceiling. There are certain things that he did well, but he just can't be the guy to influence every facet of the team.

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    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    Here's a question. What happens if Lester Conner hadn't left? I always thought he was decent, and I bet he would have got the job and probably done well.

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    Default Re: Exactly two years ago Vogel replaced the clown as the Pacers coach lets celebrate again :)

    He made it pretty clear one time that he had no desire to emulate JOB's coaching ways. lol
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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