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Thread: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

  1. #26

    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Well considering the circumstances, many other people were thinking the same thing...
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  2. #27
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Hindsight:
    I think when Guokas wrote this article he was correct. Some of his reasoning might be suspect but overall we didn't immediately snap back to a team on a mission. We were seriously spiraling the wrong way. The return of JO (even early) and SJax was not a magic bullet. We were looking like a team that was 50-50 at best to make the playoffs (and that is probably being optimistic). Even prior to the JO's injury we were in trouble.

    Since that time a wildcard was thrown into the mix though (The return of Dale Davis) and that has changed things immensely.

    -Bball
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Pacers will make the playoffs, unless they have major injuries to key players.
    UB, who would have thought at the time you posted the above (in mid-December) that the Pacers would make the playoffs even if they do have major injuries!

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Pacers will make the playoffs, unless they have major injuries to key players.


    I guess I was wrong. They have had major injuries to key playes and still will make the playoffs

  5. #30
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I guess I was wrong. They have had major injuries to key playes and still will make the playoffs
    But would they have done it without Dale Davis?

    BTW... anyone wish we could've gotten Dale Davis last season...at least around midseason? Would that have negated the Pistons getting Rasheed and leap-frogging us?

    -Bball
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  6. #31
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    I never thought we'd miss the playoffs.

    When JO and Jax came back, Tinsley had just gotten injured. We weren't winning those games because our PG play was terrible.

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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    But would they have done it without Dale Davis?

    BTW... anyone wish we could've gotten Dale Davis last season...at least around midseason? Would that have negated the Pistons getting Rasheed and leap-frogging us?

    -Bball
    Yes, but the trade for Jackson cannot be overlooked. When he and Artest are out there we have two more than capable of negating Rip and Prince. Dale would have been the final step. If everything had remained normal, and we picked up Dale, it was our year to be holding the trophy.

    However we will still compete well in the playoffs.
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  8. #33
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    But would they have done it without Dale Davis?

    BTW... anyone wish we could've gotten Dale Davis last season...at least around midseason? Would that have negated the Pistons getting Rasheed and leap-frogging us?

    -Bball

    You are really a glass half empty guy. Yes with Dale last year at this time it would have really helped against the Pistons.

    Without acquiring Dale this season the Pacers record would be more like 5-11 than the 11-5 since Dale signed

  9. #34
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    You are really a glass half empty guy.
    I just play one on the internet. You should've seen me smiling during tonight's game....

    -Bball
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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  10. #35
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Does any one have Matt Guokas email address?
    Isn't it at the site if you follow the link to the story?

    -BBall
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  11. #36
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    ok, ok

    its old, but "got crow?'
    I don't think Guokas was necessarily wrong overall. Look at the things people were hanging their hats on to say that he was wrong back when the article first appeared (here and other threads). Those things did not come to pass. What changed was the acquisition of Dale Davis and Reggie's newfound (or re-found) assertiveness. Whether one was related to the other I suppose we'll never know.

    Had Walsh/Bird not made the Davis move I think this team was spent for this season and I'm not sure the fans (or Reggie) would've had this burst of energy that everyone is now feeding off of.

    What Guokas' article should've done was serve as a wakeup call that things would not be easy or simply begin falling right back into place as soon as players started returning. And a wakeup call to management (and coaching) that they needed to consider something to shake things up and recharge everyone.

    -Bball
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    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  12. #37
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Umm, we can play the what if game "b-ball" but putting all the ifs, and's and butts aside.
    MG said the Pacers wouldnt make it. They did. As I said "Got crow?"..............
    If Goukas is as easygoing as UB in admitting he was wrong, you're not likely to get much satisfaction out of it. Anyway, when it comes to sportswriters, William Goldman's adage about Hollywood seems to prove true:

    Nobody [in this town] knows anything.

    Try finding one that predicted that the Pistons would win the championship last season, much less make it to the finals.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    Had Walsh/Bird not made the Davis move I think this team was spent for this season and I'm not sure the fans (or Reggie) would've had this burst of energy that everyone is now feeding off of.

    What Guokas' article should've done was serve as a wakeup call that things would not be easy or simply begin falling right back into place as soon as players started returning. And a wakeup call to management (and coaching) that they needed to consider something to shake things up and recharge everyone.
    Except that players HAVEN'T returned. We all thought Goukas was an idiot because he said we'd miss the playoffs. Most of us placed caveats, though, and said it depended on no more major injuries. Jermaine and Tinsley injured, when we're already missing Artest? That would have made me more likely to consider us missing the playoffs.

    No question that the addition of Dale gave us a boost of energy. But we also were getting the ship turned around before Tinsley and Jermaine went down.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    Except that players HAVEN'T returned. We all thought Goukas was an idiot because he said we'd miss the playoffs. Most of us placed caveats, though, and said it depended on no more major injuries. Jermaine and Tinsley injured, when we're already missing Artest? That would have made me more likely to consider us missing the playoffs.
    Ibidem on this part!

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  15. #40
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    As for your last comment, that would be a fun side project. I would be willing to bet its in the 1-3 range
    I looked it up right after the finals and vaguely remember none of the major sportswriters getting it right. Here's what I found so far:

    http://www.nba.com/preview2003/champ..._forecast.html

    I imagine Kstat would know.

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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    IIRC last year everyone had the Lakers predominately picked to win, followed by the Spurs.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    IIRC last year everyone had the Lakers predominately picked to win, followed by the Spurs.
    I have a magazine lying around here that predicted us to win it all this year. I'm not sure if they were in the minority, although I would assume so.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Umm, we can play the what if game "b-ball" but putting all the ifs, and's and butts aside.
    MG said the Pacers wouldnt make it. They did. As I said "Got crow?"..............
    I don't know why I am defending Matt Guokas but both Anthem and yourself seem to be getting something from the article that I did not. (BTW- Guokas put in caveats as well).

    I didn't sense any malice or glee from Guokas' writing. I didn't think he seemed happy to be writing the Pacers off. I thought he simply laid out an outline of how things could turn out and threw some water on some people who thought at worst we'd lost our chance at a #1 seed.

    I don't know why anyone would be gloating. I certainly don't think Guokas has to eat crow. For most of the season his cautionary statements were coming true. It was the who had to considerably (and constantly) change their positions and make excuses. And Guokas didn't say "These dastardly Pacers will get what they deserve and sit out the playoffs. Bank on it!" Here is what he said:

    Guokas:
    "Replacing one top player is tough, but replacing three is next to impossible.

    The Pacers are finding that out, and never will that message hit home more than in April when Indiana will likely be on the outside looking in when the playoffs begin. "
    I'd be curious to hear his take on what has transpired since then.

    I guess some of you are giving me the impression that you think Guokas is 'anti-Pacer' or 'the enemy'. I just got the feeling he was being a bit of a realist amongst a little too much optimism and .
    Maybe I am reading you guys wrong?

    -Bball
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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  19. #44
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    I don't know why I am defending Matt Guokas but both Anthem and yourself seem to be getting something from the article that I did not. (BTW- Guokas put in caveats as well)....

    Maybe I am reading you guys wrong?
    I think so. I never thought he was anti-Pacer, just that he was stupid.

    He said that the Pacers would be outside looking in on the playoffs, but here we are in a fight for HCA. You've said "Well we're playing better because of Dale Davis" and I said "But unless you counted on losing Jermaine and Tinsley, you couldn't have predicted we'd be in that situation."

    I'm not sure why we're still talking about the guy, when his predictions have been so thoroughly discredited. He said the Pacers would fold, and they haven't. We've had lots more adversity on top of the suspensions, and yet we're going to get the spot we predicted in the first place (before the brawl, most people thought the Pistons would edge us out for division title, meaning we'd get 4th seed).

    Nobody thought "at worst we'd lost our chance at a #1 seed." The board as a whole saw the loss of Artest as a huge deal. You and Jay were probably the least broken up about it.

    But nobody thought we'd be out of the playoffs, either. And despite all of the injuries, we're not.

  20. #45
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    I never thought he was anti-Pacer, just that he was stupid.
    Classic.

    It doesn't even matter who you're referring to at the time, it just WORKS.

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    I think so. I never thought he was anti-Pacer, just that he was stupid.
    Then I'm not reading you wrong at all.

    He said that the Pacers would be outside looking in on the playoffs, but here we are in a fight for HCA. You've said "Well we're playing better because of Dale Davis" and I said "But unless you counted on losing Jermaine and Tinsley, you couldn't have predicted we'd be in that situation."

    I'm not sure why we're still talking about the guy, when his predictions have been so thoroughly discredited.
    His theories have not been discredited. Until Dale Davis joined this team we were on a fast track OUT of the playoffs. One by one players came back and things didn't work out. We didn't get Sjax and JO back and hit the ground running. Yes, there have been injuries, but let's not pretend we were doing just fine injuries or not. Let's also not overlook the players that stepped up. This is one of the caveats Guokas mentioned.

    He said the Pacers would fold, and they haven't. We've had lots more adversity on top of the suspensions, and yet we're going to get the spot we predicted in the first place (before the brawl, most people thought the Pistons would edge us out for division title, meaning we'd get 4th seed).

    Nobody thought "at worst we'd lost our chance at a #1 seed." The board as a whole saw the loss of Artest as a huge deal. You and Jay were probably the least broken up about it.
    That's just not true. There were plenty people predicting only a blip in the season and then a romp with our rested and hungry returning players. I'm not saying a majority, but there were some mighty optimistic predictions out there.

    But nobody thought we'd be out of the playoffs, either.
    For whatever reason any of us choose to believe, or use as an excuse, we came awfully close to no playoffs.

    And despite all of the injuries, we're not.
    And this is a good thing that we can all agree on.... Except for Kstat!



    -Bball

    BTW... none of this means that Guokas isn't an idiot. But I'm not going to pin that title on him for the article in question.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  22. #47
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goukas thinks Pacers won't make the playoffs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    His theories have not been discredited. Until Dale Davis joined this team we were on a fast track OUT of the playoffs. One by one players came back and things didn't work out. We didn't get Sjax and JO back and hit the ground running.
    I don't equate "We didn't hit the ground running" with "We were on the fast track out of the playoffs."

    Tinsley was playing great, Jermaine was here, and right before Jax came back we lost Tinsley. AJ was beyond terrible in his first 10 games. When he started playing decent (before he started playing brilliantly), we were turning it around, and then JO went down.

    I'm overjoyed that we got Dale. But if we hadn't lost JO and Tins due to injuries, and we hadn't picked up Dale, I don't think we'd be much, if any, worse than we are right now. Dale's pickup helped slow the bleeding with those two guys out.

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