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Thread: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

  1. #126
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    I'm all for running the Hill/West PnR because both of them have made some good shots in late games and the individual play gives us two solid options that will almost guarantee a half way decent shot. If they trap Hill, we go to West, if not Hill can at least get a decent drive towards the basket. It's a good play, not saying it will work.

    On the other hand, no matter what the play call is, I'm not sure I ever agree calling a play when either Iggy or LBJ are involved playing defense. They're too good and you do not want to attack them. (as an example, if we decide at some point that a PG/West PnR is the best option, in the playoffs against LBJ, I'd switch to a Granger/West PnR and have him do the play just so LBJ wasn't there to blow it up)
    Last edited by mattie; 01-29-2013 at 02:24 AM.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Lol listen to the homers on this board... George clearly fouled Iggy at the end of the game, and anyone who disagrees is a straight up homer.
    1) Every non-Nugget fan in the RealGM General Discussion GB thread was saying that this wasn't a foul and that the Pacers got denied of the opportunity to win the game.

    2) Every reporter that wrote a recap about the game mentioned that the call was at least questionable.

    3) I was talking with a guy that we're in the same fantasy league and is a Suns fan. He thought that the calls were tragic and ridiculous. He is a Phoenix Suns fan.

    4) The Denver announcers themselves could not believe that they got that call.

    I understand your need to feel "cool" by saying the exact opposite of what most people think. I understand the need for this "holier than thou" attitude. It obviously makes you feel better about yourself. Have fun with it.

    But don't even think for a moment that you're being impartial. Don't lie to yourself.

    Anyway, I'll stop it now because I'm not contributing anything to this thread.

    In fact, I don't think that I will comment on this particular basketball game. There is no value at all. I'll just say on last thing.

    A team that has not hit a field goal in the last 5:35 minutes of the game does not deserve to win a game at the FT line.

    That's it.
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  4. #128
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I doubt anyone has actually flip flopped. You can look it up, maybe people have, but many of us who are calling for a Hill/West PnR are calling for it because it is a good solid play.

    I'd never ask for an ISO. Ever. Now sure, a PG/West PnR wouldn't have been a bad play and I'm certainly never opposed to that, but an ISO, especially an ISO against Iggy, is not a good play call.
    You may be right that people haven't flip flopped. But there were posts from multiple posters on the subject on both. I don't remember which game it was and frnakly need to go to bed before i go fishing for OT games lol.

    I think they could have set it up better, but I liked the call. I think he is more likely to have success 1 on 1 vs. Iggy than he is getting double teamed by 2 average to above average defenders. I think there was no chance they were gonna send a double w/ Iggy as the primary defender because of their confidence in him. I would have preferred Hill setting up PG on the wing off of a David West sideline screen though. But against most defenders PG is more comfortable driving from the top of the key. So there are merits to the way they set it up.

    PG made a mistake in waiting too long, but he had time to get off the shot if Iguodala hadn't fouled.
    Last edited by aamcguy; 01-29-2013 at 02:29 AM.

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  6. #129
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
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    A team that has not hit a field goal in the last 5:35 minutes of the game does not deserve to win a game at the FT line.

    That's it.
    Most important point. A few people enjoy the narrative that the Nuggets out played the Pacers the entire game, and some ridiculous late game heroics gave the Pacers a chance. But that's just not true.

    First off, the Pacers led almost the entire first half, so the idea that the Nuggets dominated is obviously not true. And then as Nuntius pointed out, the Pacers dominated the last 5 minutes with great defense. The Nuggets did not clearly out play the Pacers.

    There should have been overtime. But that's beating a dead horse.

    Regardless as to the bad call, the Pacers do need to step up their defense. There does need to be some improvements, but like every team in the NBA, the Pacers are currently in a little funk, and I'm sure they'll get out of it. Playing at home the next 9 out of 10 helps...
    Last edited by mattie; 01-29-2013 at 02:37 AM.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    The last 1:30 is on tv right now for those that want to see it again.

  9. #131
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    You may be right that people haven't flip flopped. But there were posts from multiple posters on the subject on both. I don't remember which game it was and frnakly need to go to bed before i go fishing for OT games lol.

    I think they could have set it up better, but I liked the call. I think he is more likely to have success 1 on 1 vs. Iggy than he is getting double teamed by 2 average to above average defenders. I think there was no chance they were gonna send a double w/ Iggy as the primary defender because of their confidence in him. I would have preferred Hill setting up PG on the wing off of a David West sideline screen though. But against most defenders PG is more comfortable driving from the top of the key. So there are merits.
    I get what you're saying.

    I am just firmly anti-isolation (whether in the clutch or not). That's my reasoning is all. I don't like Iso's hardly ever. PnR's, cuts, screens, etc... But ISO's are statistically inefficient, and easy to defend. (Just send your best defender and force a tough shot, simple!)

    Edit- the one time I'd be willing to run an Isolation though is with James Harden. Somehow someway, he's been absurdly productive running isolation's. Normally, the iso in the NBA is an unproductive play. But Harden has been able to overcome that.

    Also worth noting is Eric Gordon has actually been incredibly effective in clutch time, game winning plays but I'm not sure if he was running isolations. I just know that he has scored incredibly effectively in those moments, but they've probably run plays though.
    Last edited by mattie; 01-29-2013 at 02:45 AM.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Do you guys really think DJ is that bad? To be honest, I thought he's played pretty solid even though he's not a strong defensive player...
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Yep I'm watching the play again and Iguadola didn't foul Paul George on that play, good call.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    And the foul on Paul George was the right call too, Paul George pushes Iguadola with his elbow when he is on the air, huge mistake by Paul George.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
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    Do you guys really think DJ is that bad? To be honest, I thought he's played pretty solid even though he's not a strong defensive player...
    The defense is noticeably worse with the DJ/Hill backcourt, so I just don't want to see it. As LG33 noted, it's probably not all DJ's fault either. Hill statistically, for his entire career including SAS, is only a little bit above average against wings, so that might play into it as well.

    Regardless, I'd rather have a wing like OJ out there who can knock down the shot from anywhere (or he should, his entire career he's been a helluva shooter with huge range), and decent defense.

    I don't think OJ will ever be a great player, but I don't see why he won't be a solid bench player for years to come. He's 23 and he's completely filled out so he won't get much better, but once he completely figures out defense at the NBA level, he should be an above average defender that can shoot from anywhere. That's a real nice player off the bench.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yep I'm watching the play again and Iguadola didn't foul Paul George on that play, good call.
    Well I'm watching it again and I see a textbook blocking foul. As George starts to make his move, Iggy hops forward causing his outside shoulder to collide with George's inside shoulder with his arm stretched across his body to prevent George from getting around him.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    And the foul on Paul George was the right call too, Paul George pushes Iguadola with his elbow when he is on the air, huge mistake by Paul George.
    lol

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    The defense is noticeably worse with the DJ/Hill backcourt, so I just don't want to see it. As LG33 noted, it's probably not all DJ's fault either. Hill statistically, for his entire career including SAS, is only a little bit above average against wings, so that might play into it as well.

    Regardless, I'd rather have a wing like OJ out there who can knock down the shot from anywhere (or he should, his entire career he's been a helluva shooter with huge range), and decent defense.

    I don't think OJ will ever be a great player, but I don't see why he won't be a solid bench player for years to come. He's 23 and he's completely filled out so he won't get much better, but once he completely figures out defense at the NBA level, he should be an above average defender that can shoot from anywhere. That's a real nice player off the bench.
    Yea I get that. I don't really like when Indy goes small with Hill and DJ either, but I'd be more than happy with DJ as a long term backup (not overpaid, of course)

    Considering OJ is a rookie, I'm really happy with what he's done. Once he gets his 3 shot dialed in and gets accustomed to the pace of the NBA, he'll be a really solid player, kind of like the Courtney Lee type.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
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    Do you guys really think DJ is that bad? To be honest, I thought he's played pretty solid even though he's not a strong defensive player...
    He's relegated to being nothing more than the guy bringing up the ball and then being a spot up 3pt shooter.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
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    Yea I get that. I don't really like when Indy goes small with Hill and DJ either, but I'd be more than happy with DJ as a long term backup (not overpaid, of course)

    Considering OJ is a rookie, I'm really happy with what he's done. Once he gets his 3 shot dialed in and gets accustomed to the pace of the NBA, he'll be a really solid player, kind of like the Courtney Lee type.
    It's funny you said that, I almost mentioned Courtney Lee. I think they're incredibly similar which is why I'm happy. I think we got Courtney Lee on a rookie contract... give him minutes!
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    The only thing I don't like about that Paul George play I didn't see before is that PG gives up on the play to sell the foul. It doesn't look like Iggy did much to knock it away, just PG kind of let go to flail his hands a little. I don't like to see that, especially considering the whistle hadn't blown.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    By the way, Bulls fans on RealGM:

    On the Iggy steal:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago fan 1
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    That was a reach
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago fan 2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago fan 1
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    That was a reach
    For the sake of Indy losing this and making cusion for our 3rd spot....no it was not.
    On PG's foul:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago fan 3
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    If that was a foul, then so was what Iggy did to George on the previous possession. But I'll take it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicago fan 4
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    home cookin....
    Here's the thread:

    http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...9036&start=225

    When your division rivals say that the refs screwed your team then they are more often than not because you know that they benefit from your losses.

    But ignore the neutral (if not hostile) perspective. Just keep following your agenda.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    His running mate stated multiple times in the game thread that he didn't believe George was fouled by Iguodala, so I doubt you have luck there.

    Some posters on this forum seem to make a point of rooting against our team and players. It's not trolling, just a way of protection themselves against disappointment. If you convince yourself your team has no hope because of an abundance of "evidence," you get to pick and choose when to "know" that the results are fools gold or be pleasantly surprised. If you expect an 0-82 record, you can't ever be disappointed.

    It's a defense mechanism, of sorts.
    I get the feeling the people you're talking about are trying too hard to be anti-homers. Perhaps you can call them "homerphobic". Being contrarians to the "homers" at all cost to show every one that they themselves are not "simple minded homers".

    Don't be afraid to have a little homer in you occasionally, it comes with being a fan (and often times you might not even be the homer that you fear).
    Last edited by Merz; 01-29-2013 at 03:16 AM.

  28. #144

    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Damn you Iggy!

    You suck enough to ruin my FTs category in fantasy this week and the entire season, but when you have to miss one, you make him!

    Don't you dare blaming the refs

  29. #145

    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Why on earth is Paul shooting that shot with Hill and West on the team?

    I think Frank needs to stand up for our players on occasion. The lopsided officiating is old hat.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by AesopRockOn View Post
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    Denver pretty much asked us to steal this game. Iggy missed FOUR straight free throws. Gallo scored 25+ and they didn't keep going to him with West on him. Our offensive lack of execution did us in.

    PG was fouled out on the wing by Iggy. But what the hell was he doing? You're better off taking a timeout with four seconds on the shot clock than starting your move from 28 feet out. This team just completely breaks down when they can't get into the paint via West. Lance and Hill overdribble and PG settles.

    And I'll say it 'cause I'm that crazy. Not playing Green is hurting our defense.
    Was about to thank this, but then I saw the last line. Just can't agree with that. Green is average at best on defense.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    I think the last call was technically a foul on PG, but given that it wasn't that obvious/severe and in that situation in the game, I'm surprised it was called.

    However, it should be pointed out that Paul got set up by the little back cut in a situation where all you should be doing is protecting the rim, particularly against Iggy. So it did look like he was slightly compromised in terms of positional defense.

    Then, Iguodala on the previous play may have been a foul, but he was never beaten by PG. He was always in reasonable position and it just didn't look like he was in recovery mode.

    I thought Denver controlled (not necessarily complete domination) the game (style/energy) from roughly early to mid 2nd qtr to mid to late 4th. I give us a ton of credit for staging the massive rally and I thought the final foul call was questionable. Really liked PG and Lance's overall games. OJ's play in limited minutes continues to encourage.

    All that said, we dug a double digit hole, thus making it very difficult on ourselves. They had two key reserves out, but their bench still absolutely spanked us, and despite it all (last call included), we still had opportunities to seize the game. We just did not get it done.

    On the negative side, I understand the argument about possibly losing them, but I'm going on record right now saying GH and RH's big money deals will eventually become challenging. Both PG and West are deserving of more and then you still have to have $ left over to build legit depth, not like the fool's gold we brought in this offseason.

    Combined 7/24 from them tonight. Both solid, but ultimately unspectacular players. Yes, Hib's D has been good, but he's completely one dimensional. Can't consistently manufacture garbage points by converting put backs at the rim. Hill is a good player, but I'm sorry he's just not a full time point guard.

    West coming up with 4 or 5 rebounds from the 4 a little too often now for my taste. Vogel/Pacers need to take a lesson from Denver about ball and player movement on offense. Helps when you have two point guards that can make the right pass consistently in p - n - r situations as well.

    We need to find a way to play better and more consistently as a unit. This is a good team, but as of now not a contending team in my view. No way I see us beating Miami or any number of teams in the West in a 7 game series. Granger + continued development might be step in the right direction, but long way to go as of now.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    They're on a west coast trip, playing 3 very solid teams. At least two of which will probably make the playoffs. Yeah the Pacers are playing like crap right, but its part of the highs and lows of an82 game season. Every team goes through these spurts.

    Also, its laughable the few that are defending that last play. That was a bad call, one the refs shouldn't make in that situation, and its debatable if its a foul in the middle of the game. This isn't a noncontact sport. Not to mention there was less contact on that last play than PG's turnover the play prior. If the refs don't make that call on Iguadola on the second to last play, then it should have gone to overtime. Doesn't excuse the Pacers performance the previous 42 minutes, but the poor performance of the Pacers certainly doesn't excuse the bad call at the end either.
    This! People saying the Pacers shouldn't have gotten themselves into this situation at the end of the game need to take into consideration that that goes for Denver aswell (they should have put us away and they didn't that's on them not on us) and the Pacers playing badly doesn't mean they should get ridiculous calls against them.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacemaker View Post
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    Really Hibbert? REALLY? Hibbert 3-12 !!!! Really? 8 measly points AGAIN. Looks like that 8 ppg avg is here to stay.
    This guy is a joke. all those who said his offense would turn around just don't know basketball. I you pay attention you will see he is weak and out of shape and that does not cut it in the NBA.. I want a refund...

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Vogel really has to work on his last second play calling, If its not a pick and roll with hill and West it looks really bad. Also that run was made when Lance was running the half court offense I hope we see more of that. Makes you wonder how good this team would be if we had a real point guard...

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