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Thread: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersPride View Post
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    are you serious man. Greene has sucked for most the season. he needs to find his shot. if we are dependent upon Gerald Greene off the bench to win us games then im mailing in the season.

    Greene needs to find his jumpshot before he sees any more meaningfull playing time.
    Yes he has sucked on offensive end but he has been pretty good on D. He makes great defensive plays every game. He doesn't have a high IQ, but he is athletic enough to make up for his mistakes, and he is long. Long is the Pacers M.O. on D. Aside from letting Chase Buddinger steal a game on us, he has been solid on D. If Green is around the basket I know he is gonna pogo stick up there and challenge the shot. Its a shame that Vogel doesn't see this.
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  3. #102
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    The things Green did consistently well don't show up in the stat sheet. We lose a LOT on defense by having Augustin/OJ absorb his 20 minutes.
    I have no problem with OJ playing minutes....he makes rookie mistakes....but he does a good job of defending and pestering the opposing PGs....unlike DJ.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Guys we should stop talking about the referees and start talking about the team, wtf is wrong with this team? 3 straight losses, it looks like they forgot how to play D, Roy is still puke Roy, the offense is still crappy must of the time, George Hill is playing like crap too.
    On the contrary, Portland game notwithstanding, I think we've been playing better than we have the majority of the year. Our defense is a little down, but 11 of the top 15 scoring teams in the NBA are in the Western conference and we just lost to 3 of them. Which makes what Memphis does on a regular basis out there pretty incredible.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Yes he has sucked on offensive end but he has been pretty good on D. He makes great defensive plays every game. He doesn't have a high IQ, but he is athletic enough to make up for his mistakes, and he is long. Long is the Pacers M.O. on D. Aside from letting Chase Buddinger steal a game on us, he has been solid on D. If Green is around the basket I know he is gonna pogo stick up there and challenge the shot. Its a shame that Vogel doesn't see this.
    I'm really happy to see OJ replace Green and I hope that stays that way.

  8. #105
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    Is the problem that D.J. Augustin is getting too many minutes? Or is Orlando Johnson simply not ready to play good enough defense (individual and/or team) to make up for Green's absence?
    Alittle of both. I can't stand running Hill and Augustine together, like they have been. Johnson is not a quick defender and he isn't quick or long enough to make up for his mistakes. We were handling the best teams in the league with Green getting 15-20 min a game because even with his terrible shot selection he was not giving up easy buckets.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Alittle of both. I can't stand running Hill and Augustine together, like they have been. Johnson is not a quick defender and he isn't quick or long enough to make up for his mistakes. We were handling the best teams in the league with Green getting 15-20 min a game because even with his terrible shot selection he was not giving up easy buckets.
    I agree with you, but I think his shot selection wasn't terrible. He prolly launched an egregious one every game, but for the most part he was just bricking wide open jumpers.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Guys we should stop talking about the referees and start talking about the team, wtf is wrong with this team? 3 straight losses, it looks like they forgot how to play D, Roy is still puke Roy, the offense is still crappy must of the time, George Hill is playing like crap too.
    I don't think it's time to panic. If we had been blown out all 3 nights it would.

    We didn't show up in Portland.

    We tried to coast in Utah which was dumb.

    Denver's transition offense gave us fits tonight. Then for some reason they started playing really dumb, we got back in the game.

    I wanna see how we play in these next few. Hopefully the defense comes back.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Guys we should stop talking about the referees and start talking about the team, wtf is wrong with this team? 3 straight losses, it looks like they forgot how to play D, Roy is still puke Roy, the offense is still crappy must of the time, George Hill is playing like crap too.

    I do totally agree with this. WTF happened to this team on that trip?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    I am worried about George Hill again. Well, to be honest, I've been worried about his production versus his contract all season. I know that I am a little tougher on him than I am on other players because I feel (perhaps mistakenly) that most other posters are easier on him, so I would like others to weigh in on the subject. He is a ball-stopper on offense, he doesn't push the tempo or seek to penetrate beyond the foul line, and he's not taking the shots he used to take last season. I didn't think he could be a starting point guard when the season started, but he had several games, quite a few, actually, where he really took it to the other team and made stuff happen. I haven't seen much of that since, and we really, really need it.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    I do totally agree with this. WTF happened to this team on that trip?
    They're on a west coast trip, playing 3 very solid teams. At least two of which will probably make the playoffs. Yeah the Pacers are playing like crap right, but its part of the highs and lows of an82 game season. Every team goes through these spurts.

    Also, its laughable the few that are defending that last play. That was a bad call, one the refs shouldn't make in that situation, and its debatable if its a foul in the middle of the game. This isn't a noncontact sport. Not to mention there was less contact on that last play than PG's turnover the play prior. If the refs don't make that call on Iguadola on the second to last play, then it should have gone to overtime. Doesn't excuse the Pacers performance the previous 42 minutes, but the poor performance of the Pacers certainly doesn't excuse the bad call at the end either.

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  19. #111
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I am worried about George Hill again. Well, to be honest, I've been worried about his production versus his contract all season. I know that I am a little tougher on him than I am on other players because I feel (perhaps mistakenly) that most other posters are easier on him, so I would like others to weigh in on the subject. He is a ball-stopper on offense, he doesn't push the tempo or seek to penetrate beyond the foul line, and he's not taking the shots he used to take last season. I didn't think he could be a starting point guard when the season started, but he had several games, quite a few, actually, where he really took it to the other team and made stuff happen. I haven't seen much of that since, and we really, really need it.
    He's still giving us about the same production, but he's not driving as often in the first 3 quarters. PG and Lance are handling the ball a lot more now that they've proven to be a bit more reliable, so Hill doesn't have to do it as much. He gets to spend a little bit more time off of the ball. Then in the fourth quarter he normally gets into the lane once or twice to get up his floater, bringing his point total to around 13-15 and making us forget he's been a little bit relaxed until then

    I'm fine with it. He's shootin the 3 poorly in January and his assists continue to go down as he loses more ball handling responsibilities to PG and Lance, but his overall efficiency has gone up.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacemaker View Post
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    Really Hibbert? REALLY? Hibbert 3-12 !!!! Really? 8 measly points AGAIN. Looks like that 8 ppg avg is here to stay.
    At this point, he is what he is. Once you know what you have, it starts to also become as much on the teammates and coaches who choose to give him looks in the clutch as much as it's on him for being terrible on offense.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    100, 98 (in regulation), and 102 pts given up in the 3 losses. Unacceptable. What has happened to our defensive identity?

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Lol listen to the homers on this board... George clearly fouled Iggy at the end of the game, and anyone who disagrees is a straight up homer.
    If you think George clearly fouled Iggy, then you and vnzla must think that George was clearly fouled by Iggy on the play prior. Any way you look at it it was a terrible last 5 seconds for the refs.

    So for your "homer" comments, either your clueless on how basketball is played and called, or you're just fitting things into your own little narrative...

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Guys we should stop talking about the referees and start talking about the team, wtf is wrong with this team? 3 straight losses, it looks like they forgot how to play D, Roy is still puke Roy, the offense is still crappy must of the time, George Hill is playing like crap too.
    I will say simple fatigue due to the HEAVY reliance on the Starting Lineup ( wait a sec, that sounds familiar ). I also think that removing Green from the lineup forces Vogel to be too dependent on Lance ( no problem ), OJ and DJ ( which is a problem ). Technically, I guess one ( likely someone like you ) would suggest that this means that it's a problem with lack of any real depth in the bench. Given the return of Granger....I would re-visit the concern about the depth in another month.

    For now, I am willing to concede your concerns about your depth in the lineup....to a point.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    At this point, he is what he is. Once you know what you have, it starts to also become as much on the teammates and coaches who choose to give him looks in the clutch as much as it's on him for being terrible on offense.
    This doesn't make me happy lol
    He's eating up A LOT of the Pacer's money
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by BornReady View Post
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    This doesn't make me happy lol
    He's eating up A LOT of the Pacer's money
    Just wait for next year when Walsh gives West his extension.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.ThunderMakeR View Post
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    100, 98 (in regulation), and 102 pts given up in the 3 losses. Unacceptable. What has happened to our defensive identity?
    To be fair.....AT HOME; on average, the Jazz score 102 points, the Blazers score 98 points and the Nuggets score 107 points. They basically did what they usually do. The Pacers...unfortunately...didn't do what they should have done....as you suggest.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  30. #119
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Some notes -

    Hill, West, George and soon Granger are all better options than Hibbert. Even if Hibbert is playing well on the offensive end. I believed this last year when Roy was playing relatively well, the Pacers needed to play to their strengths. STOP running plays for Roy. This is becoming a problem.

    Hill needs to attack the opposing PG's more. He's not doing it enough, instead playing a lot off the ball and allowing PG and West to dominate possessions. I don't have as big of a problem with those two having the ball, but I'd like to see Hill attack the basket because he's good at it.

    Obviously Hill/West PnR is the end game play you run. Not an ISO EVER much less an ISO with Iggy defending...

    I understand that Vogel was afraid Iggy might take advantage of Lance, but Gallinari is still their best offensive weapon. PG should have been on him all game. This is all a moot point of course when Granger comes back. Obviously we are sorely missing Granger.

    We should all note that without Granger this team should be expected to be a middling playoff team. They're playing like it right now. So I'm not too disappointed about losing to Denver on their home court. Tough place to win against an arguably equal or greater talented team.

    Orlando Johnson played well and I hope he gets more minutes.. Please limit DJ as much as possible.

    PG and Hill both hit Tyler, Roy, Ian, and West several times in the hands with passes and they ALL miss handled them. That's how you get easy baskets. Our bigs need to start handling those passes. I don't know how many easy looks we lost because our no hands bigs can't catch ****.
    Last edited by mattie; 01-29-2013 at 01:11 AM.
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  32. #120
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Orlando Johnson played well and I hope he gets more minutes.. Please limit DJ as much as possible.
    I agree with this.....I think that OJ did very well...despite making many rookie mistakes.....but he played very well. I think that he just needs more minutes to get more confidence in his scoring.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Earlier in the year ( I don't remember which game), Paul George was absolutely on fire. Tie ball game, we have the last shot, we run a PnR for Hill/West which fails. The board in general is upset that we didn't "feed the hot hand" and give PG the ball for the last shot in regulation, and I find myself defending the PnR because it was a safe play. Fast forward to now, we're in the position of the game we are in because Lance and PG changed the complexion of the game. We run a PG iso, it fails. The board is now upset we didn't run the PnR. Both times "bad coaching" has been cited. In both cases, there are very good reasons for picking the play we did.

    The funny thing is, we actually ended up winning the game earlier in the year. My point is, it's easy to criticize a play as "bad playcalling" when it doesn't work. When in reality, our Hill/West PnR has about the same success rate as our PG isos do at this point in the season.

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  36. #122
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Alittle of both. I can't stand running Hill and Augustine together, like they have been. Johnson is not a quick defender and he isn't quick or long enough to make up for his mistakes. We were handling the best teams in the league with Green getting 15-20 min a game because even with his terrible shot selection he was not giving up easy buckets.
    Agreed. OJ has been disruptive in a few games because no one on the other team expects him to do much. No disrespect to the dude (I really like what we've seen from him so far.), but opposing defenses and offenses won't plan for a minute how to deal with Orlando Johnson. OTOH, if Green is coming off of screens, running the fast break, recovering on D, or coming for a weak side block, that is taken into account. All the following things are true about Green. His shooting has been abysmal. He needs to keep his eye on his man off-ball, and make sure he's in position to box out. He needs to cut more and more effectively.

    (Actually, while we're there, every ****ing guard and wing on this team needs to move better without the ball. West and Roy are two of the best bigs in the league at hitting guys going towards the basket. Considering how often our wings telegraph passes, West and Roy may actually be better at the delivering the ball.)

    Like Ben Hans, OJ was a breath of fresh air. He played hard and with heart, and showed out a few games on offense; he is a much better player than BH. But expecting a rookie still figuring out that he belongs in the league to be consistent over 82 games is a lot to ask. Despite their poor play this season, Augustine and Green are on other teams' radars because of their skill sets. Green needs to shoot much better and become more reliable. But not having him as an option is going too far the other way.

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  38. #123
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by aamcguy View Post
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    Earlier in the year ( I don't remember which game), Paul George was absolutely on fire. Tie ball game, we have the last shot, we run a PnR for Hill/West which fails. The board in general is upset that we didn't "feed the hot hand" and give PG the ball for the last shot in regulation, and I find myself defending the PnR because it was a safe play. Fast forward to now, we're in the position of the game we are in because Lance and PG changed the complexion of the game. We run a PG iso, it fails. The board is now upset we didn't run the PnR. Both times "bad coaching" has been cited. In both cases, there are very good reasons for picking the play we did.

    The funny thing is, we actually ended up winning the game earlier in the year. My point is, it's easy to criticize a play as "bad playcalling" when it doesn't work. When in reality, our Hill/West PnR has about the same success rate as our PG isos do at this point in the season.
    I doubt anyone has actually flip flopped. You can look it up, maybe people have, but many of us who are calling for a Hill/West PnR are calling for it because it is a good solid play.

    I'd never ask for an ISO. Ever. Now sure, a PG/West PnR wouldn't have been a bad play and I'm certainly never opposed to that, but an ISO, especially an ISO against Iggy, is not a good play call.
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    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    Quote Originally Posted by bunt View Post
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    If you think George clearly fouled Iggy, then you and vnzla must think that George was clearly fouled by Iggy on the play prior. Any way you look at it it was a terrible last 5 seconds for the refs.

    So for your "homer" comments, either your clueless on how basketball is played and called, or you're just fitting things into your own little narrative...
    His running mate stated multiple times in the game thread that he didn't believe George was fouled by Iguodala, so I doubt you have luck there.

    Some posters on this forum seem to make a point of rooting against our team and players. It's not trolling, just a way of protection themselves against disappointment. If you convince yourself your team has no hope because of an abundance of "evidence," you get to pick and choose when to "know" that the results are fools gold or be pleasantly surprised. If you expect an 0-82 record, you can't ever be disappointed.

    It's a defense mechanism, of sorts.

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  41. #125

    Default Re: Pacers/Nuggets Postgame Thread 1/28/13

    It's funny how if we hit 1 more shot in each of these games, we are all happy about the 3-1 road trip. Literally nothing would be different about the team, but people would be way more optimistic about it. I'm not worried about the state of the Pacers. I know what we can and can't do and I still think we are one of the top teams in the East.

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