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Thread: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    No matter if you thought the calls were right or if you thought they were wrong in the end it doesnít matter it is now just another loss and that makes 3 losses in a row heading home for a potential trap game vs. Detroit with the Heat & Bulls waiting in the wings for revenge.

    Iíve now had time to watch both calls at the end of the game a few times and to be honest I think that they were probably both fouls. At first I didnít think Iggy fouled George on the defensive end I just thought that Paul lost the ball but upon further review I now believe that this was a reach in foul and it looks like he hit Paul on the shoulder.

    However I also believe that Paul did foul him while he was going to the basket.

    But at the end of the day it doesnít matter. IMO we should never have allowed ourselves to get worked over during the entire game.

    The only person IMO who played like they had any sack on them at all was Lance Stephenson. He had no problem driving the lane and trying to get to the rim.

    23 three point attempts vs. 17 free throw attempts. This is starting to be a horrid trend and making me look for the streaks of white running the side of Frankís hair.

    Sure there are times that we have designed plays that get three passes and an open shooter in the corner, okay I get that. But there are just so many times that our offense looks as organized as a monkey fornicating with a football and we end up with some ďoh crap the clock is running outĒ shot from beyond the arc. Not to mention the times where either Paul or George or D.J. just decide to prove to the world that they are the new Glenn Rice and decide to just take a 3 early in the shot clock.

    But I understand that itís hard for me to complain about our continual love the long distant shot when Roy ďthe mighty windĒ Hibbert canít do anything in the post. I am not sure why he now almost exclusively hooks every shot within 10 feet of the basket. I know Hicks told me during the game that this was because it was his best shot but still itís not working. He needs to get in touch with an old Georgetown player by the name of Ewing and see that you can actually shoot a normal shot up close and it doesnít have to be a hook.

    Ok before I get into tonightís bullet points I want to talk about my theory of how we have looked so bad in the last three games on defense.

    Now understand I am by no means an expert so my idea maybe totally off base but this is what Iíve seen and sadly I think it is always going to happen vs. certain teams as long as they can hit their shots.

    Portland & Utah in particular have athletic smaller front courts that are mobile, strong and can hit shots. Denverís front line (other than Faried) is not that way but their teams are athletic slashers who attack the rim.
    I think in all three cases, in particular Portland & Utah, what they did was position their big men who really are power forwards away from the basket and have them hit face up jumpers. This in turn makes Roy Hibbert leave the inside thus taking away any and all advantage he gives you on defense.

    This is particularly bad because David West while a decent one on one defender in the post is not a good help side defender at all and offers virtually no rim protection. He is slow and because he is slow often times he doesnít even try and rotate to help. Now in Utah we moved West to Jefferson with some success but that still left Roy on Millsap.

    In other words anytime we are going to face a front court that has any ability to hit outside shots and is athletic and mobile we are going to be in for some trouble.

    This is where not having Danny hurts you. Yes I know the general narrative on him is that he is just this side of Troy Murphy on defense but the narrative is wrong. Danny was (Iíll say was because we donít know how he will be now) a very good help side defender and often times last year covered a lot of the ground that West just canít. Paul can as well donít get me wrong but generally Paul is playing the passing lanes (rightfully so btw) and thus usually isnít in position to do it.

    So what these three teams have done IMO is Jim OíBrienís greatest dream minus the absurd over use of the three point shot. They have spread the floor on us on defense and we do not have athletic enough big men to defend them. Honestly Iím not sure why Mahinmi hasnít gotten more time as he is far superior to Roy in this department.

    I am not saying Danny Granger makes you win this game because then you wouldnít have gotten the game from Lance that you got (maybe) but just more size might have helped. Think about it Gallinari was their leading scorer and he was being guarded a lot by Lance. Now Lance did as good as he could against him but Lance is 6í5 & Gallinari is 6í9Ē (I think). Danny would have been the same height.

    But again Danny may not have made a difference as he certainly hasnít the past 7 years out there.

    Anyway that is my very basic layman thought on why we have struggled on defense the past 3 games, we have just faced power forwards playing center that have hit their face up jumpers in 2 of the 3 games and the 3rd game their entire team is designed to get to the basket.

    Now to the bullet points and f your one of those people who absolutely have to look for a positive then I will start off with two for you.

    ē Lance Stephenson looked great. If you werenít able to listen to the Pacers broadcast they said that Frank & Lance had a long talk and Frank did his usual motivation via positive message to Lance and tonight it worked. Cheers to both Lance & Frank for this.
    ē Orlando Johnson also looked really good out there. Not just because he hit his two 3 pointers but on defense he actually was disruptive as well causing one jump ball and one turnover. The fact that he actually hit his shots didnít hurt things any.
    ē The decision to not put the ball in George Hillís hands to run a pick n roll with west to end the game was baffling to me.
    ē The decision to ever play Hill & Augustin together makes me nauseated. Iím still not on the Augustin bandwagon btw. Defense is as bad as its ever been with him.
    ē Not sure why I feel this way but I havenít liked something about George Hillís game since he was diagnosed with Bronchitis. Canít put my finger on it but something isnít right.
    ē Roy Hibbert gives me indigestion
    ē Not sure why David West wasnít more of an offensive factor at the end of the game. Donít know if it was Denver cutting him off or we just didnít go to him but it was a problem either way.
    ē The fact that I have to honestly look at people this year and say ďyes Kosta Koufos has outplayed Roy twice this yearĒ causes me great shame.
    ē You know I know he ended up with good stats and all but honestly I just canít say that I really thought Paul George had a great game. He had a great block but he just seemed to float around a little. Maybe thatís too harsh I donít know he didnít have a bad game at all.
    ē We really need to get some length and athleticism next year at the 4. Not over West as a starter but going from him to Tyler just gives us to much of the same thing (only less). Neither are rim protectors and neither grab enough rebounds on a nightly basis for my taste.

    We have now lost 3 in a row and are only 5-5 over our last 10. We are now game and a half behind Chicago, a full game behind Brooklyn and sadly we are only up half a game on the Hawks who thankfully lost so they didnít catch us (and therefore pass us since they have won the season series so far) and we are amazingly only up a game and a half on the Bucks. I know that the Sunshine brigade will not be happy with me here but I have to say it anyway, we might be in real trouble playoff standing wise in a week. Sure we have Detroit, who btw is much improved, but then we have the gauntlet of Miami, Chicago & Atlanta with a 3rd game in 3 nightís scenario vs. Philly who we have some trouble with.

    In a two week period of time we might go from 3rd to 7th. Iím not saying it will happen but we are going to have to see far more consistent play from our club and frankly we are going to have to get more from Roy if we hope to at least not go 1-4.

    Iíd really be happy if we could go 3-2 over that period Iíd be thrilled with anything more than that.

    Oh well letís not end this on such a dreary note, in honor of Rush finally getting into the Rock & Roll hall of fame here is limelight.



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  3. #2
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    http://www.nba.com/video/games/nugge...-den-recap.nba

    Sorry couldn't get this to embed but if you pause this at the 1:35 second mark you can see Iggy's arm extended into George's space. Now the question is whether or not Paul's left shoulder makes contact with Iggy's chest prior to Iggy's hand making contact with Paul's right shoulder.

    Either way though I believe that this is a textbook reach in call. Here is the actual NBA rule on this.

    B. Personal Foul

    Section I--Types
    a. A player shall not hold, push, charge into, impede the progress of an oppo-nent by extending a hand, forearm, leg or knee or by bending the body into a posi-tion that is not normal. Contact that results in the re-routing of an opponent is a foul which must be called immediately.
    b. Contact initiated by the defensive player guarding a player with the ball is not legal. This contact includes, but is not limited to, forearm, hands, or body check.
    EXCEPTIONS:
    (1) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball who has his back to the basket below the free throw line extend-ed outside the Lower Defensive Box.
    (2) A defender may apply contact with a forearm and/or one hand with a bent elbow to an offensive player in a post-up position with the ball in the Lower Defensive Box.
    (3) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball at any time in the Lower Defensive Box. The forearm in the above exceptions is solely for the purpose of main-taining a defensive position.
    (4) A defender may position his leg between the legs of an offensive player in a post-up position in the Lower Defensive Box for the purpose of main-taining defensive position. If his foot leaves the floor in an attempt to dis-lodge his opponent, it is a foul immediately.
    (5) Incidental contact with the hand against an offensive player shall be ignored if it does not affect the player's speed, quickness, balance and/or rhythm.
    c. Any player whose actions against an opponent cause illegal contact with yet another opponent has committed the personal foul.
    d. A personal foul committed by the offensive team during a throw-in shall be an offensive foul, regardless of whether the ball has been released.
    e. Contact which occurs on the hand of the offensive player, while that hand is in contact with the ball, is legal.
    EXCEPTION: Flagrant, elbow and punching fouls.
    PENALTIES: The offender is charged with a personal foul. The offended team is charged with a team foul if the illegal contact was caused by the defender. There is no team foul if there are personal fouls on one member of each team or the per- sonal foul is against an offensive player. The offended team is awarded:
    (1) the ball out-of-bounds on the sideline at the nearest spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extend-ed if an offensive foul is assessed.
    (2) the ball out-of-bounds on the sideline where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended if the personal foul is on the defender and if the penalty situation is not in effect.
    (3) one free throw attempt if the personal foul is on the defender and there is a successful field goal or free throw on the play.
    (4) two/three free throw attempts if the personal foul is on the defender and the offensive player is in the act of shooting an unsuccessful field goal.
    (5) one free throw attempt plus a penalty free throw attempt if the personal foul is on the defender and the offensive player is not in the act of attempting a field goal if the penalty situation is in effect.
    (6) one free throw attempt and possession of the ball on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted if an offensive player, or a teammate, is fouled while having a clear-path-to-the-basket. The ball and an offen-sive player must be positioned between the tip-of-circle extended in the backcourt and the basket in the frontcourt, with no defender between the ball and the basket when the personal foul occurs. There must be team control and the new play must originate in the backcourt, including throw-ins, and the offended team must be deprived of an opportunity to score an uncontested basket.
    (7) two free throw attempts if the personal foul is for illegal contact with an elbow. The elbow foul may be assessed whether the ball is dead or alive. Free throw attempts are awarded whether the ball is dead, alive, loose or away-from-the-play in the last two minutes of regulation or overtime(s). Contact must occur for an elbow foul to be assessed. It is an unsports-manlike act whether or not there is contact. (See Rule 12A--Section VII-- d(6) for non-contact.) If the deliberate elbow contact is above shoulder level, the player will be ejected. If the elbow contact is shoulder level or below, the player may be ejected at the discretion of the official. In all of these situations, the official has the discretion of assessing a fla-grant foul (1) or (2).
    (8) two free throw attempts if a personal foul is committed by a defender prior to the ball being released on a throw-in.
    EXCEPTION: Rule 12B--Section X.
    (9) two free throw attempts if a personal foul is committed against an offen-sive player without the ball when his team has at least a one-man advan-tage on a fast break and the defensive player takes a foul to stop play.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  5. #3
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    I don't have near a problem with three point attempts as you do. As long as they're good open looks Im all for it. The problem though, is as you noted, no FTA, and not getting to the rim. The Pacers need to force the ball inside for easy looks, and create more trips to the line.

    A lot of this lies with Paul George and George Hill who aren't attacking the basket.
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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    I'm tired of Hill only shooting threes all game and then late in the game when the Pacers need points he finds it easy to slip through the defense for nice tear drops or short jumpers. He can't do this all game??
    Find me on the internets @mattiecolin

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    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If you werenít able to listen to the Pacers broadcast they said that Frank & Lance had a long talk and Frank did his usual motivation via positive message to Lance and tonight it worked.
    Did they also say when Frank will have a similar talk with Green?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    looking at the box score, it is plenty apparent that we did not attack the basket as much as we should have and paul george and hill have been the worst offenders in this dept. so far this year. when 50% or more of your shots are from downtown- you aren't attacking the hoop and you aren't going to the line. together, they attempted 3 fts. while jacking up 15 3's. this is not acceptable. pg has a tendency once in a while to slip into playing posey-ball and it is a waste of his ability to do that.
    i don't mind 3's however, this team and those 2 in particular have a bad habit of over-relying on that shot. and i really get aggravated with the quick 3 when we don't even try to run a play and just chuck it up. those shots almost always miss and there is just no reason for it.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    I'm not concerned about the standings at the moment. The Pacers are the only team in the playoffs in the East right now to have played more road games than home games. Considering the Pacers have played 7 more on the road than at home, that's a pretty big difference.

    As for the strength of teams left, the Bulls and Bucks have harder remaining schedules, the Knicks and Hawks are comparable, and the Nets are the only one of the "middle teams" that is slightly easier.

    Put those together and the Pacers probably have the easiest remaining schedule of all the teams they're fighting with right now. Chicago in particular is going to have to hope Rose is going to come back healthy because they have a really difficult schedule left. Their next eight before the break is a really tough stretch for example: at Milwaukee, at Brooklyn, at Atlanta, at Indiana, at Denver, at Utah, home against San Antonio, at Boston.

    The Pacers next 4-5 are tough. I expect a little better than what they did on the road trip (they were only supposed to win about 1.5 on the road trip while they should expect to win somewhere between 2.5 and 3 of the next 5, probably much closer to 3 than 2.5) and after those 5 games they likely will be in the 5-6 range in the standings. But they also will have the advantage schedule wise plus have Granger coming back.

    After the next 5, the Pacers have a stretch of over a month where they have only 1 back to back (and that back to back is two straight games against Detroit). They only have one road trip of two games in that stretch, with 10 of the 14 games at home overall. And 8 of those 14 games are against teams under .500.

    Even directly after that set of games their next four after that are all against teams currently under .500. They have plenty of time to build up their record before the stretch run gets a little more difficult again.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    One thing you have to keep in mind in this game at least. George Karl's teams always do a lot of double teaming and trapping. That is why his teams are always near the top of the NBA in forcing turnovers. But what that also does is force, yes I do mean force their opponents to take a lot of long range shots. They were doubling West pretty hard, they were trapping our ballhandlers and making it tough for us to get anything but three point shots and long range twos.

    Of course the pacers needed to force the issue more often, draw more fouls, create more double teams and exploit the Nugs defense. That sounds good, but also the pacers have been turning the ball over a lot in recent games so you know the players have that in the back of their minds, so I'm sure the players wanted to be aggressive and exploit the defense, but doidn't want to turn it over either.

    One other thing a defense like the Nuggets, one of the benefits of playing that type of defense is generally they don't foul a lot because they force jump shots.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-29-2013 at 09:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
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    Did they also say when Frank will have a similar talk with Green?
    He has to find positives on game tape to be able to show Green in order to motivate him, and unfortunately that would be a pretty short video.
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    ē Not sure why I feel this way but I havenít liked something about George Hillís game since he was diagnosed with Bronchitis. Canít put my finger on it but something isnít right.
    This. We normally win when he plays well, and we struggle mightily when he doesn't. It's been a long time since I've felt he's played well and I've been kind of writing it off, but now it's starting to be a bothersome trend. He's not defending well, nor is he scoring well. All he is doing is looking for open 3's, which he isn't hitting. He had a chance to put us up one last night and missed the FT, which was disappointing but somewhat not surprising given how he's played recently.

    I am one of Hill's biggest supporters on this board, but his recent play has definitely left a lot to be desired.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    This. We normally win when he plays well, and we struggle mightily when he doesn't. It's been a long time since I've felt he's played well and I've been kind of writing it off, but now it's starting to be a bothersome trend. He's not defending well, nor is he scoring well. All he is doing is looking for open 3's, which he isn't hitting. He had a chance to put us up one last night and missed the FT, which was disappointing but somewhat not surprising given how he's played recently.

    I am one of Hill's biggest supporters on this board, but his recent play has definitely left a lot to be desired.

    He made two huge defensive plays in Utah and two huge free throws late in that game.

    I think he's been fine. Maybe in a shooting slump. but to me he looks like the same clutch player who was carrying the pacers along with West back in November. Perhaps with the emergence of Paul George, Hill hasn't gotten as many opportunities to score
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-29-2013 at 09:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    He made two huge defensive plays in Utaha and two huge free throws late in that game.

    I think he's been fine. Maybe in a shooting slump. but to me he looks like the same clutch player who was carrying the pacers alpong with West back in November. Perhaps with the emergence of Paul George, Hill hasn't gotten as many opportunities to score
    Yeah, that he did. I still feel that he's not played well for a while now. Turnovers, dumb passes, inconsistent D, shooting slump...

    But hey, maybe it's me being negative following 3 straight L's lol.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    But at the end of the day it doesn’t matter. IMO we should never have allowed ourselves to get worked over during the entire game.
    This is the story of the last 2 games. We've somehow come to believe that we can coast for 3-1/2 quarters and turn it on at the end of the game.

    The only thing I can hope is that it is pre-AS Break fatigue. Teams get tired before that break, and they try to conserve energy. Instead of going like gangbusters and fading at the end, maybe their entire plan is to have enough left in the tank to go balls to the walls in the fourth. Unfortunately, once the hole is dug it takes more than just a burst of energy to fill it in.

    The problem with that hope is that our offense has been crappy all season, so this is really nothing more than the consequences of having no alternative when the defense breaks down - which may be due to fatigue (hope hope) but may also be due to just running into teams we can't defend for 48 minutes.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Ok, I missed the game last night, and seeing lots of complaining about the refs I thought everyone (as hard-core Pacer's fans) were probably over-reacting. Having just watched them now, that is some serious bull excrement. Iggy's was a textbook foul, more for the body contact that impeded George and thus led to the turnover, and George had almost no contact with Iggy. There was some, but the contact was normal basketball contact, not George pushing or pulling Iggy out of positions. Both horrible calls, the refs should be shamed.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Not going to West on the post with Gallanari guarding him for the last 3mins or so should be criminal. Had the Pacers gotten a bucket and went up by 2, it would have really destroyed Den's confidence. Good teams have to impose their will in the last two minutes. Hill letting Lawson pick his entry pass was disgusting. Guy's practically an Oompa Loompa.

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    Really need to go 6-2 these last two weeks.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    It wasn't just the last 2 calls that was terrible, but the last few minutes was terrible. To tackle a guy and allow blatant play for one team and calling touch calls on the other team is right down robbery. Pacers came back by playing hard and hitting the shots needed. Denver was being gifted to play recklessly to try and stop the bleeding. It doesn't matter if the Pacers was behind or had mistakes, its part of the game. But, the officials should not take sides. I get it, the NBA has always favored the home team, big market teams and superstars, but this, this was over the top.

    Screw the NBA and the crap they produce.
    .

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I don't have near a problem with three point attempts as you do. As long as they're good open looks Im all for it. The problem though, is as you noted, no FTA, and not getting to the rim. The Pacers need to force the ball inside for easy looks, and create more trips to the line.

    A lot of this lies with Paul George and George Hill who aren't attacking the basket.
    Can't get to the line when the officials refuse to blow the whistle.

    If you look at the shot chart for the game, the Pacers had a nice dose of inside game...they just couldn't buy a whistle. Faried was called on loose ball fouls, but despite Moz and Kosta running into Ian/Roy/David, no whistles.

    Not all on the officials, obviously, but when a team plays a similar style but shoots 21 more free throws...somethings up. At least now we know why Denver is so good at home.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by DGPR View Post
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    He has to find positives on game tape to be able to show Green in order to motivate him, and unfortunately that would be a pretty short video.
    "Oh hey Gerald, I looped your Cleveland dunk 10 times and burned it on a DVD for you."

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    This small market inferiority is getting to be a little ridiculous on here. I understand we wanna b*tch about the refs (especially on the last two possessions) but WE cost ourselves the game with the terrible 3rd QT, and some missed opportunities when the game was tied and Iggy bricked 4 straight FT's.

    We should know by now, do NOT leave the game in the officials hand...especially on the road.

    If we want to win games like that, we have to play better and with better effort--especially defensively. Bottom line.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Not going to West on the post with Gallanari guarding him for the last 3mins or so should be criminal. Had the Pacers gotten a bucket and went up by 2, it would have really destroyed Den's confidence. Good teams have to impose their will in the last two minutes. Hill letting Lawson pick his entry pass was disgusting. Guy's practically an Oompa Loompa.

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    Really need to go 6-2 these last two weeks.
    I agree, but it's going to be DAMN hard to go 6-2 within that stretch. Hell, it'll be difficult to go 3-2 in the first 5. That's why winning those close games in UTAH and DEN, or against an inferior team like POR were critical. We NEEDED to win one of those, and now we'll need to make it up before the AS break, but we don't have any "gimme's" right now till we play CHA.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    I was out of commission yesterday (gum graft... ouch) and didn't even know we were playing, so I have nothing to contribute on the game...

    However, this morning, on The Score (Canadian sports channel), during their NBA highlights, their whole spot on this game were those two plays at the end... the non-call and then the call against George and they were all over both... even to the point where they showed a guy behind the Nuggets bench clapping and the announcer said, "Yay, bad officiating!"
    "I mean, you'd walk into our dressing room and run into Mel Daniels holding a .45 -- it makes you wonder."

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Denver attempted 32 FGA at the rim and we attempted 24. So they attempted 33% more shots at the rim than us.

    Now, Denver also attempted 30 FTA and we attempted 17. So they attempted ~76.5% more free throws than us.

    Something about that seem wrong to you?

    It sure felt to me like they were getting away with more physical fouls than we were, and this seems to support that.

    By the way, we made 48% of our three point shots, so as long as that % stays at or above 40%, I say keep shooting them.

    http://www.hoopdata.com/boxscore.aspx?id=330128007

    Oh, and speaking of shots at the rim, Paul was 3-3, Hill 0-1, Lance 4-5, West 1-4, Roy 1-6, Ian 2-3, DJ 1-1, Tyler 0-0, and Orlando 0-1.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Here are my thoughts.

    The team shot well. Actually they shot really good. FGs was 45.9% and while we had 23 attempts behind the 3 point line, we hit 11 of them. That's pretty good.

    Team did extremely well to come back from the game being behind by 14, 4 and a half a minutes from the end. Now here comes my complaint. You have made a 11-0 run and you're just behind by 2. Why the hell do you go to Hibbert? Why do you go to a player that has sucked again all night long and during all season offensively? He got the ball and went for that ugly stupid hook. Of course he missed. They got the ball straight away for a fast break where Iggy was fouled. Next possession, Hill again goes for the pass to Hibbert (!!!). His pass was so casual that got robbed again. I know it's just a play but it's maddening seeing that. Makes no sense.

    Now, regarding the refs. They are not people. They are a different race
    I've said it before but what happened at the end was another pathetic display of homerness or ineptitude. I would rate it as even worse officiating than the one at Brooklyn where the then refs committed crimes against the Pacers over a longer period of time.
    First of all that's a foul on Iggy. He reaches in and locks PG's hand. In the extremely rare occasion that you didn't see it or worse, you saw it but thought wasn't much of a foul, don't you dare call a foul on the other end with 0.5 sec remaining. The contact was minimal and you could claim there wasn't a foul at all on Paul. I know I'm a just a fan but if I were there I could hardly restrain myself from assaulting the refs. Vogel and the players have ton of patience.

    Finally, regarding the players. Lance and PG had a monster game. I would stay more on Lance's excellent display because PG has spoiled us lately and now we sort of expect these performances. Lance was also the player who attempted and scored in several penetrations. Loved that. West was his usual- more than good- self offensively and we should have gone to him in the last possession.
    Hill, wasn't impressed at all with him. Don't know if it's his defense or his body language that makes him look like he doesn't care that much, but something is missing there lately. He is certainly not as negative as Hibbert is though on the offensive end.

    There is not much to talk about him honestly that hasn't been mentioned before. He is slow, clumsy, can't turn, can't dunk and his sky hooks wouldn't look that ugly if he was hitting them. He can't look dominant even if he is right under the basket and he misses way too many easy baskets. Oh I would love the fact if we didn't run any PnR with him ever again.

    Orlando Johnso showed once again very good signs of development on both ends. Really happy for him.
    Last edited by Johanvil; 01-29-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    This small market inferiority is getting to be a little ridiculous on here. I understand we wanna b*tch about the refs (especially on the last two possessions) but WE cost ourselves the game with the terrible 3rd QT, and some missed opportunities when the game was tied and Iggy bricked 4 straight FT's.

    We should know by now, do NOT leave the game in the officials hand...especially on the road.

    If we want to win games like that, we have to play better and with better effort--especially defensively. Bottom line.
    So what your saying is Pacers must win all games with a large lead or they are putting the game on the officials hands...hmm. Doesn't seem logical to me. Close games in the NBA is the norm. Officials is a big part of the game and they should be held accountable, but the NBA always looks the other way. This is unacceptable to me. We're not talking one bad call here, those officials swallowed the whistle for the home team for a large part of the game and the last few minutes when the game is most important was horrible.
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: Mile High Surprise

    I really do wish the NBA were up front and honest about the officials. It's not like it would be all about dumping on them; you can always go back through a game and find times where they were right when it may have looked wrong during life play, so I think it would balance out.

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