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Thread: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

  1. #176
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    As to Redick, the fact that Orlando wouldn't accept Granger for him doesn't mean he's more valuable than Granger, it just means they're looking for a different kind of return. By the way this notion that Granger is over the hill while Redick is some upcoming young SG is ridiculous - Redick is just a year younger!

    Seems to me that if Orlando rates Redick as highly as this thread indicates, they'd be better off just re-signing him. I doubt that Orlando will get more than a mid first rounder for him.

  2. #177
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    Redick and Afflalo cannot play together. No way Redick is resigned unless they trade Afflalo.
    Last edited by Kstat; 01-28-2013 at 07:11 AM.

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  3. #178
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    It seems like quite a few of you on here have the "what have you done for me lately?" syndrome goin' on in regards to Granger..

    Ya'll gonna look real foolish WHEN DG33 comes back full force , not skipping a beat.....



    Reminds me of that song "Forgot about Dre" only substituting Granger for Dre..

    ♫♫♫ "Nowadays everybody wanna talk like dey got somethin to say, but nothin comes out when dey move dey lips... just a bunch of gibberish and muthaf#@%#% act like dey forgot about Grange (er)" ♫♫♫


    DG is one hell of a player, and will most definitely be the cog we've been missing in our offense..

    For my analogy, we will assume that this team is like high-end racecar with a souped up engine.. and for arguments sake the max amount of cylinders in this fantasy analogy is 5... which 5 represents our 5 starters... (we will exclude the bench in this example)

    So anyways... offensively.....
    This team started out this season only firing on 1 or 2 cylinders ... then after that first month and a half we started firing on
    3 consistantly, and 4 every once in a great while (blue moon)...

    Now defensively, I'd say we have consistantly been firing on 4 cylinders at least 90-95% of the time, and occasionally we'd be fully dialed in totally..

    I truly believe that once Danny comes back and shakes some rust off, offensively we will consistantly be firing on 4 to 5 cylinders 90-95% of the time matching our defensive intensity...
    I also think Roy will come back around offensively once DG gets back, and that our already top defensive ranking, will only get better with Danny on the floor...

    I really think Danny is the missing piece that will make everything come together for this team..
    Last edited by Kemo; 01-28-2013 at 05:47 AM.
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  5. #179
    All Hail CJ Watson! Nuntius's Avatar
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    I think we are no better than we were two years ago when Vogel took over other than the development of our young players.


    I'm sure that 98% of the posters here are going to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    We don't have good enough shooters or good enough creators at the wing positions.
    Show me the great shooters and creators that Memphis has. Can you? Of course not.

    Teams that are post heavy do not have great creators at the wing positions. Why? Because there is not enough space for iso or penetration. It's the same reason why our PGs tend to spot up rather than penetrate.

    If people consider Memphis championship contenders then they have to consider the Pacers as well. If they don't, fair enough. I can understand why some people think that Miami, OKC, Spurs and LAC are on another tier. It makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Home court chances are fading fast
    They really are not fading fast. A win tonight and we are exactly where we want. February is our homestand and the time that we will make a run. If we start losing in February I will agree that home court chances are fading. But the most logical thing is that we go on a run in February and get some seperation from the Bulls until Rose returns. And then it's everyone's game. Our home court chances are far from over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    Our road record makes me believe if we don't have any type of HCA, we will not escape the first round.
    Our road record without Granger is going to be irrelevant in the playoffs with Granger. Doesn't it make sense?
    Last edited by Nuntius; 01-28-2013 at 06:45 AM.
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  6. #180

    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Redick and Afflalo cannot play together. No way Redick is resigned unless they trade Afflalo.
    Is Afflalo going to ever be any good? Should Orlando keep Redick, since he has an elite NBA skill, and go ahead and trade Afflalo? Just curious, I always though Afflalo would turn out to be a really good player and he seems to be just another guy so far.

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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    In my view, Danny will now have two physically limiting injuries which will likely never fully heal, the knee tendonosis (not tendonitis PR07) which is likely to recur when high stress resumes on the knee (the stress is what causes the tendonosis reaction as the tendon constantly tries to heal itself), as well as having one foot where his plantar fascia was literally torn apart (not long after the MIP season) due to doctor's recommendations for playing on it in an effort to actually complete the initial tearing and reduce / eliminate the pain. This appears to have been successful, but the functioning of that foot is permanently compromised.

    Without the presence of the plantar fascia, that foot becomes less able to provide the base required for explosiveness and lateral movement. Granted, taping and orthotics can make up for a portion of this loss, but not all of it. Then, the tendonosis and threat of recurrence creates a situation which further degrades his functioning as a defender overall whether he is used as a traditional wing or as a "stretch 4" in my opinion, and also will present a challenge for him to adjust to on his jumpers, namely a lack of lift which will require him to try to make up for by using more arm strength. As long as others are able to create enough space for him, his jumpers should return (even old guys who are not professionals can hit perimeter shots until they get tired), though his release will likely be slowed and more easily defendable due to needing to have a longer arm motion and lower release point due to compensating for lesser lift with less explosive quickness even on the vertical jump.

    None of this is to say that Danny will completely be useless. My guess is that he will peak at 80 - 90% of what he once was. I just doubt he can be the Danny we once knew and loved, and it is through no fault of his own.

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  9. #182
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    Is Afflalo going to ever be any good? Should Orlando keep Redick, since he has an elite NBA skill, and go ahead and trade Afflalo? Just curious, I always though Afflalo would turn out to be a really good player and he seems to be just another guy so far.
    He's currently averaging 17, 4 and 3 on pretty good shooting % (44%, 35% from 3) and he plays really good defense. He's raised his scoring avg every year he's been in the league.

    No he isn't a star, but hes definitely a starter, and is a tough minded player. His size and defense is what's kept JJ as the 6th man for ORL.

  10. #183
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    He's currently averaging 17, 4 and 3 on pretty good shooting % (44%, 35% from 3) and he plays really good defense. He's raised his scoring avg every year he's been in the league.

    No he isn't a star, but hes definitely a starter, and is a tough minded player. His size and defense is what's kept JJ as the 6th man for ORL.
    In a league dearth of quality 2 guards, Afflalo is pretty good. I completely agree with what you said.

  11. #184
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midcoasted View Post
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    You can not possibly know that until we go on a losing streak of epic proportions and miss the playoffs without him. Unfortunately right now I consider the Pacers pretenders. I've been so high on them for the past few years I have already started to grow tired of Vogel's maddening rotations. I think we are no better than we were two years ago when Vogel took over other than the development of our young players. This team is not going to beat Miami or Chicago with a healthy Rose in 7. As good as Paul George is, this team is still lacking. David West is the best scorer from the PF position I've seen the Pacers have, JO included, but trust me he is no Dale Davis with his rebounding or defense either, even though he is good. He is a good player that I'm starting to think is way overvalued around here. Definitely not worth a quarter of the salary cap, but neither is Hibbert but at least he is elite defensively. West is not an elite scorer even though he is more than solid. Lebron is elite. Duncan is elite. West is not. He is not going to put the team on his back and win you a championship.

    My point is if Orlando had Howard last year it would have been no different than the Series with Chicago the year before. We just didn't match up well enough with either team to beat them in a series. But beating up on a shell of the Orlando team that dominated us for years and being up 2-1 on the champs was the biggest fools gold I've ever witnessed as a Pacers fan. We lost the next three in such a manner that has me questioning this teams true ceiling. West may be the weakest link in the chain defensively for the starters. If not him then who? You could argue Lance or Hill, but I tend to think they both are better defenders at their position that West is, and I'm not that high on Hill. He definitely is not a better defender than Granger, so when healthy you are arguing between West and Hill being the weakest link.

    I think this team is better constructed for the power forward to be our fifth option. I think Hill needs his touches, Granger, George, Hibbert. They all need theirs. But that would only work if we had a real point guard that can create for others and also play defense, and we haven't had that since Mark Jackson. (Just leave Tinsley out of this, please). Maybe it is the offensive system we run. Maybe remnants of the JOB days still linger hence why our assist numbers are still bottoms of the NBA.

    Granger or no Granger our system is not championship quality. We don't have good enough shooters or good enough creators at the wing positions. You need one or the other, and we have neither, hopefully only until Lance develops more and gets past his growing pains. West or no West, we will be lucky to get out of the second round. Home court chances are fading fast and I don't think we could take Miami, Brooklyn, Chicago, or the Knicks. We don't have a Lebron, or Dwade, or Rose, or Carmello, so what does it matter? We have borderline All Stars, and unfortunately to win championships in this league you seem to need at least one perennial All Star starter. Our road record makes me believe if we don't have any type of HCA, we will not escape the first round.

    Ok that may be most negative post ever. I'm just going to stop there. I literally turned off the other game early in the third the other night and just left. It's like I don't even get excited about this team anymore. We are starting to slide towards a first round exit in the playoffs.

    Yes our defense is great, but our offense and careless turnovers are just sickening to watch. That is not Pacers basketball. I want Reggie era basketball. Reggie was a pure shooter, and I can't think of one since. And it doesn't surprise me we haven't sniffed the Finals since and I don't think we will until we have at least one.
    I hate that this post is going to get lost inside this thread.

    This is a very good post even if you don't agree with the content. I think you lay out some decent concerns and while I think you are a little overly negative I don't think you are being unreasonable either.

    I'm thinking maybe you should make a new thread and just post this there.


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  13. #185
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Yea, it was an amazing post. A lot of what I feel, but never am eloquent enough to sum up the way Midcoasted did, is in there.

  14. #186
    Member Hibbert's Avatar
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    Default Re: RicBucher, Pacers interested in JJ Redick.

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Danny+Tyler+Green for Redick+Big Baby+Mcbob works, Redick can replace some of Danny's scoring and he can also bring that ball movement and passing we have been asking for in a long time, Big Baby can replace Tyler(he is averaging 15 and 7).

    Pacers starting unit: Hill, Redick, Paul George, West and Hibbert.
    That trade makes no sense whatsoever. Pacers have no interest in "Big Baby" and if they were interested in McBob they would of kept him. We lose big time with this trade scenario. We need Granger and his scoring, our defense is elite while our offense is struggling. Let's wait and see how our team does when Danny gets back and they have time to gel.

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